Fitz's impact on the O-line

[JiFtheOracle]

True.  At least there's no danger of him running into a lineman's butt or trying to do a behind the back keep-away from the lineman while dropping back 25 yards.  If he's gonna get picked he's gonna do it with balls.  I like balls.

We know.

[carlito1171]

In all fairness the Jets were practicing with Marshall and Decker in the slot before Geno got his jaw tapped. It has nothing to do with Fitz's arm strength or lack thereof....

[Jet Nut]

Geno was awful last year as well... I am not sure how you reach a conclusion that he was not

There is simply no way to recover from the turnovers.  No way.

He was ranked worst in the league in a poll of NFL coaches.

He is young and has physical gifts but then so did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell.

he threw the same number of TDS to INTS, hardly historical was my point.  Being worst ranked by a group that ranks from ESPN highlights doesn't do anything for me.  

[#27TheDominator]

to get back to the OL for a second, the fact that there's an actual professional starting left guard in James Carpenter between Brick and Mangold makes a huge difference. Last couple years they gave the job to Winters and then Oday, neither of which would actually start for another team. They put projects in the starting lineup in the hope they'd be good.  Winters wasn't Adrien Clarke level bad but it was a similar situation. He's a liability in pass pro, the guy was getting ragdolled in preseason on the 2nd OL. 

Now the Jets OL is full of veterans (all 5 spots) and Carpenter has the least experience with "only" 5 years in the league. 

This is all kind of true, but at this point Winters and Aboushi are veterans.  They are third year players that should be in their prime.  Instead they are barely holding roster spots.  At least Winters was a rookie when he started and coming from a smaller school.  Aboushi was an ACC player who started as a sophomore.  These guys are not looking like decent picks.  Dozier was from a seriously small school, but he looks to be the worst of the bunch.  Hopefully Maccagnan is better at picking O-line or we are going to scouring mid-level FAs because our "veterans" are not getting any younger. 

[Bronx Jet01]

At no point yesterday did I see abysmal arm strength. As a matter of fact I saw Fitz zip more than a few passes when he needed too. The guy has good touch when needed and he can zip it as well. If you noticed he seems to be using his legs more and more each week by stepping up in the pocket so his arm strength is getting better by the week and its probably what was holding him back in the pre-season fake QB competition. You don't throw some of the outs Fitz was throwing yesterday with a bad arm. I think While Fitz has no rocket he certainly has a good arm much better than some think.

Did you see the interception? A strong arm gets the ball there, without the pick

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[jack48]

Some of this and some Brandon Marshall being a horse.  At times it felt like he would run his progression and when in doubt, heave it to #15.

the best thing about marshall is that he does not have to be technically "open" to get completions

[bitonti]

This is all kind of true, but at this point Winters and Aboushi are veterans.  They are third year players that should be in their prime.  Instead they are barely holding roster spots.  At least Winters was a rookie when he started and coming from a smaller school.  Aboushi was an ACC player who started as a sophomore.  These guys are not looking like decent picks.  Dozier was from a seriously small school, but he looks to be the worst of the bunch.   

draft picks often don't pan out. the difference here is that Idzik used to make picks and demand they start, regardless of whether they were good players at the time. (see Smith, Geno, among others). Mac didn't demand that Jarvis Harrison start. He signed a vet in Carpenter. There was a competition and Colon won. That's the way to run a professional football team. Let the best players play. Don't just start who you hope is good. 

[SouthernJet]

Of all the things I saw yesterday that encouraged me I'd have to say it was the same thing that jumped out at me at camp, which you never know if it will carry over or not...but seeing how quickly Fitz got rid of the ball. 

He made his decisions in a hurry and the ball came out before any defenders had a chance to get to him.  As a result, a Jets o-line that got killed by the fans last season when Geno was holding the ball for 4+ seconds and getting sacked, kept Fitz upright all day.  No dancing around, no running toward the opposite end zone under pressure.

Fun to watch.

Exactly Glenn.. As we talked about last year in car ride, Geno ran f'in BACKWARDS under pressure losing us several FGs..

Fitz did what a QB is supposed to do,,, take 1 to 1 1/2 steps forward or 1 to 1 1/2 steps at a 5 to 45 degree angle to left or right to buy time, History shows this (although it would seem opposite) is where safe zone is initially for a QB during pass rush. he also willing to throw ball away toot take sack to preserve field position. 

[EM31]

the OL played great, he had all day to throw.  They didn't come close to rushing him the majority of the game, have to give them credit.

A point which seems to be lost on some posters here.

O-Line had a great day it is said?  Maybe they had a great day because they knew the QB playing behind them was going to make quick and efficient decisions.  Maybe that is an important part of the equation.  Go figure.

[SouthernJet]

A point which seems to be lost on some posters here.

O-Line had a great day it is said?  Maybe they had a great day because they knew the QB playing behind them was going to make quick and efficient decisions.  Maybe that is an important part of the equation.  Go figure.

quick release and knowing route tree , aka, Progression reads sure does help a OL.. U r correct

[Jet Nut]

A point which seems to be lost on some posters here.

O-Line had a great day it is said?  Maybe they had a great day because they knew the QB playing behind them was going to make quick and efficient decisions.  Maybe that is an important part of the equation.  Go figure.

works hand over n hand.  I never thought the line was nearly as bad as some predicted

[GKnight83]

Brady has a rocket arm always has. Its just not what they do in new England. Now Manning has lost a lot of zip probably due to his nerve damage yet the guy still throws for 4000 + yards and 30 to 40 TD's a year with short passes. We can do the same no need to ever push the issue with this offense the way its built. Its much easier on a QB to create mismatches underneath than ask him to throw 20 yard outs all the time.

I see you're point man and its a valid opinion but even if Fitz had a gun I don't think things would change very much other than the occasional broken play where he would have to scramble and gun a ball in there to make a play.

I strongly disagree with Brady always having a rocket arm.  In fact, here in Ann Arbor he is remembered as being very slow.  Now, obviously he overcame that.

[Jetsfan80]

I strongly disagree with Brady always having a rocket arm.  In fact, here in Ann Arbor he is remembered as being very slow.  Now, obviously he overcame that.

Yep.  Belichick gave him adamantium.  

[BowlesMovement]

Fitz was better than I thought he would be. The int was horrid, but the rest of the game he was pretty good. I hope Geno never plays another down for the Jets again.

[rex-n-effect]

I don't think Fitz is the answer at QB this team is looking for but Geno definitely isn't it. As far as I am concerned Fitz remains the starter until he proves he doesn't deserve it. I don't care how well Geno does in practice. Put him in a game where it counts and he's averaging more yards per down in the wrong direction than Ivory is in the right direction.

[NYs Stepchild]

A point which seems to be lost on some posters here.

O-Line had a great day it is said?  Maybe they had a great day because they knew the QB playing behind them was going to make quick and efficient decisions.  Maybe that is an important part of the equation.  Go figure.

It may have helped that Fits used a hard count to make players flinch, then called out protections based on that movement. He also audibled quite a few times. Mangold also said he noticed tendencies then got aerial shots, and took guys aside to go over how to combat what they were trying to do. It's just like I've been saying. Fitz is a real NFL QB.   

[GandWFan]

It may have helped that Fits used a hard count to make players flinch, then called out protections based on that movement. He also audibled quite a few times. Mangold also said he noticed tendencies then got aerial shots, and took guys aside to go over how to combat what they were trying to do. It's just like I've been saying. Fitz is a real NFL QB.   

Really... I had not heard that.  VERY encouraging.  Where did you hear this from Mangold?

[ylekram]

Did you see the interception? A strong arm gets the ball there, without the pick

 

 

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hardly

[SoFlaJets]

It may have helped that Fits used a hard count to make players flinch, then called out protections based on that movement. He also audibled quite a few times. Mangold also said he noticed tendencies then got aerial shots, and took guys aside to go over how to combat what they were trying to do. It's just like I've been saying. Fitz is a real NFL QB.   

with brains, something we haven't seen since Chad's good years-we're talking over a decade now of sub-par QB play. Even 2008 Favre's year here he was 22 TDs and 22 INTs 2006 Chad was 17 Tds 16 INTs 2007 15-19 2005 in fact the LAST decent QBing year the Jets had was 11 seasons ago Chad and Quincy Carter threw 19 TDs and 10 INTs oh yea Sanchez had a decent year stats -wise in 2011 26 TDs 18 INTS but he certainly was not a smart player by any means in 2002 Chad and Vinny threw 25 TDs and had 9 INTs I think Fitz can have that kind of a year

[UnknownJetFan]

Keep hearing how Fitz arm is abysmal. The Owasu down the field and Decker TD were very good arm strength. Can he throw on a dime 65 yards down the field, probably not but outside of Rodgers, P. Manning, Big Ben, Flacco, there are no other QBs that can do that and complete the pass. 

[Jetster]

The reason QBs like Geno need to sit & learn the game were right in front of our eyes on Sunday. Fitz doesn't have the arm or the athleticism of Geno, but he can recognize defenses, audible, move blockers, change cadence, quick snap, and after all of all of those minor but extremely important DETAILS he can move through his progressions, knows where everyone should be & throws a nice catchable ball to his check downs. 

QBs like Fitz need a running game, most QBs do but especially limited QBs. But, you give guys like this a running game & they can tear a defense up once they are spread out or start sneaking up to the line to stop the running game. Fitz showed he can throw a nice slant or quick seam route. 

We have been witnessing such horrific QBing, seeing a guy like Fitz run an efficient offense is foreign to all of us, but it proves that with time & coaching Petty could have a chance. And if he in fact can learn nuances of QB play in the NFL from someone smart like Fitz you slowly build a QB that can do all of those things BUT has a huge arm, is 230LBs, can run a little and now you've got something closer to Andrew Luck than Ryan Fitzpatrick. I agree with others that we only see Geno after a 3 game losing streak or Fitzy gets hurt. 

[EM31]

The reason QBs like Geno need to sit & learn the game were right in front of our eyes on Sunday. Fitz doesn't have the arm or the athleticism of Geno, but he can recognize defenses, audible, move blockers, change cadence, quick snap, and after all of all of those minor but extremely important DETAILS he can move through his progressions, knows where everyone should be & throws a nice catchable ball to his check downs. 

QBs like Fitz need a running game, most QBs do but especially limited QBs. But, you give guys like this a running game & they can tear a defense up once they are spread out or start sneaking up to the line to stop the running game. Fitz showed he can throw a nice slant or quick seam route. 

We have been witnessing such horrific QBing, seeing a guy like Fitz run an efficient offense is foreign to all of us, but it proves that with time & coaching Petty could have a chance. And if he in fact can learn nuances of QB play in the NFL from someone smart like Fitz you slowly build a QB that can do all of those things BUT has a huge arm, is 230LBs, can run a little and now you've got something closer to Andrew Luck than Ryan Fitzpatrick. I agree with others that we only see Geno after a 3 game losing streak or Fitzy gets hurt. 

/End thread

[NYs Stepchild]

Really... I had not heard that.  VERY encouraging.  Where did you hear this from Mangold?

was an interview on the radio

[Super Bowles]

He's a genius.

[Scoop24]

He had decent game .. Bailed out by Brandon Marshall more than once but decent none the less.

It was the Browns though . Everything else here is just hype ..

"He is Real NFL QB" he has been in league 10 years I would hope he knows how to read defense .. 24 passes 180 yards and 2tds and 1 int . Is Solid overall effort it definitely isn't gonna beat more explosive teams tho .. Should be a good test this week.

[Jetster]

 

 

He had decent game .. Bailed out by Brandon Marshall more than once but decent none the less.

 

It was the Browns though . Everything else here is just hype ..

 

"He is Real NFL QB" he has been in league 10 years I would hope he knows how to read defense .. 24 passes 180 yards and 2tds and 1 int . Is Solid overall effort

 

That's a really good secondary we played yesterday. Brownies are not a complete team but they have a good defense, very good secondary & a very big, tough & talented Oline (top 10). 

The Colts Oline isn't close to as good, nor is their defense but Andrew Luck is way better than what we saw Sunday. I think our Oline matches up really well with the soft Colt defense.

Todd needs to be watching tape of Pats azz kicking of the Colts in the AFCCG. Brady barely had to throw the ball. I think we'll see Stacey activated for this game. Ivory, Powell then Stacey to pound them into submission in the 4th quarter. We will probably see the big WR sets for blocking, Marshall, Decker & Enunwa.

[drdetroit]

Fitz played pretty well yesterday despite a shaky start and a Sanchezian botched snap.  His longest throws looked duck like but they were accurate.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not sure why I keep reading about Fitzpatrick being limited athletically.  He is actually an excellent scrambler and gave us some trouble with his legs as far back as when he was with the Bengals.   He doesn't have a cannon, but he is not Pennington back there either.  His main problem has been turnovers.  Fitzpatrick is not the ideal standard stud QB, but there is nothing physically that keeps him from success in the NFL

draft picks often don't pan out. the difference here is that Idzik used to make picks and demand they start, regardless of whether they were good players at the time. (see Smith, Geno, among others). Mac didn't demand that Jarvis Harrison start. He signed a vet in Carpenter. There was a competition and Colon won. That's the way to run a professional football team. Let the best players play. Don't just start who you hope is good. 

I don't disagree, but constantly bringing in old vets and not drafting/developing guys that can beat them out does not bode well for the franchise.  They have a decent chunk of money tied up in 4 of the 5 spots and I'm not sure there is much hope for cheaper replacements.  Hopefully, Qvale or Harrison can take over at RT.  They kept Qvale, Harrison, Winters, Dozier and Aboushi around, so maybe there is some hope. 

[Villain The Foe]

Of all the things I saw yesterday that encouraged me I'd have to say it was the same thing that jumped out at me at camp, which you never know if it will carry over or not...but seeing how quickly Fitz got rid of the ball. 

He made his decisions in a hurry and the ball came out before any defenders had a chance to get to him.  As a result, a Jets o-line that got killed by the fans last season when Geno was holding the ball for 4+ seconds and getting sacked, kept Fitz upright all day.  No dancing around, no running toward the opposite end zone under pressure.

Fun to watch.

I agree, but I believe that a good portion of credit should go to Gailey's play design. My favorite play where you can really view this is the 43 yard Owusu play. FItz literally had 4 options on this play all on different levels on his drop back. 

Look at this play. Spreading the defense out made it 5 on 4 in favor of our offensive line, not to mentioning the chip block by the running back, so the Oline had a great advantage their for the QB. The most BEAUTIFUL think about this play is that you see receivers on every level of the field which Fitz will read progression wise based on how the defense reacts, in this case the safety. 

You had a receiver at the TE position running a "clear out" on the 25 yard line pulling in the safety. You have a slot receiver running a clear out at the 30 yard line pulling the corner. You have Owusu with 1 on 1 coverage running an out and he beats his man which puts stress on the other safety. If that other safety pulls to Owusu you have Marshall on the bottom running a 10 yard slant in the middle of the field that Owusu just cleared by pulling the 2nd safety towards him. 

This play design is just golden, and whats crazy about it is that its simple yet effective and it isolates and adds stress the defense secondary while giving the Oline a favorable match up (having a hat on a hat +1 extra) which gives the QB time to go through his progressions . All that and I didnt even have to discuss the running back hitting the flat after the chip block which could have converted to a 1st down if those LB'ers decided to blitz because Marshall cleared out the only defender on that side via his 10 yard slant route. 

This play design is just beautiful and the QB literally has multiple options on that play at different levels, and it could be ran no matter what down it is giving you either a pass in the flat to the RB, a 5 yard pass to the TE, 10 yard pass to the Slot, 15 yard pass to they lone WR at the bottom or the deep pass to the WR at the top...and most of all it all depends on what the QB sees in the defense reaction. Basically taking what the defense gives you. 

This offense is going to be sweet this year. 

 

[AFJF]

 

 

 

.

[AFJF]

I agree, but I believe that a good portion of credit should go to Gailey's play design. My favorite play where you can really view this is the 43 yard Owusu play. FItz literally had 4 options on this play all on different levels on his drop back. 

Look at this play. Spreading the defense out made it 5 on 4 in favor of our offensive line, not to mentioning the chip block by the running back, so the Oline had a great advantage their for the QB. The most BEAUTIFUL think about this play is that you see receivers on every level of the field which Fitz will read progression wise based on how the defense reacts, in this case the safety. 

You had a receiver at the TE position running a "clear out" on the 25 yard line pulling in the safety. You have a slot receiver running a clear out at the 30 yard line pulling the corner. You have Owusu with 1 on 1 coverage running an out and he beats his man which puts stress on the other safety. If that other safety pulls to Owusu you have Marshall on the bottom running a 10 yard slant in the middle of the field that Owusu just cleared by pulling the 2nd safety towards him. 

This play design is just golden, and whats crazy about it is that its simple yet effective and it isolates and adds stress the defense secondary while giving the Oline a favorable match up (having a hat on a hat +1 extra) which gives the QB time to go through his progressions . All that and I didnt even have to discuss the running back hitting the flat after the chip block which could have converted to a 1st down if those LB'ers decided to blitz because Marshall cleared out the only defender on that side via his 10 yard slant route. 

This play design is just beautiful and the QB literally has multiple options on that play at different levels, and it could be ran no matter what down it is giving you either a pass in the flat to the RB, a 5 yard pass to the TE, 10 yard pass to the Slot, 15 yard pass to they lone WR at the bottom or the deep pass to the WR at the top...and most of all it all depends on what the QB sees in the defense reaction. Basically taking what the defense gives you. 

This offense is going to be sweet this year. 

 

I like that Fitz let Owusu come open because he had a chance to hit any of the shorter routes if he wanted to.  Big play.

Nice job.

[Jetsfan80]

the best thing about marshall is that he does not have to be technically "open" to get completions

And whatever people want to say about Fitz, he's willing to take chances and actually have it work out some of the time.  The best QB's are able to complete passes to guys who aren't open.  Fitz is too inaccurate to be in any kind of upper class, but he's clearly a cut above Sanchez and Geno, who had to wait until WR's were wide open before they pulled the trigger. 

[jack48]

And whatever people want to say about Fitz, he's willing to take chances and actually have it work out some of the time.  The best QB's are able to complete passes to guys who aren't open.  Fitz is too inaccurate to be in any kind of upper class, but he's clearly a cut above Sanchez and Geno, who had to wait until WR's were wide open before they pulled the trigger. 

right. Todd Bowles even mentioned that Fitz can throw guys open at his presser.