Mel Kiper ranks Leonard Williams top rookie.

[Jetman55]

inexact science a 50% hit rate in draft puts you in hall of fame as a GM. Kiper's pretty good unless one wishes to cherry pick his big whiffs and hold those out as evidence he sucks. not to mention we only judge GMs on an average of 7 picks per year, that they must feel pretty confident about to choose them over all the available players. Kiper has to rank and publicly publish his opinion on like 300 guys.

even ozzie newsome gets it wrong. he took courtney upshaw over alshon jeffrey and bobby wagner in 2012. he must suck!

All fair points, sir.  He has to keep track of hundreds and hundreds of players throughout the college season, which is what makes reading his material so interesting.  And you may feel what I am about to say is covered in your statement " unless one wishes to cherry pick his big whiffs," but I do feel he at times gets caught up in the ESPN hype machine (I dont watch ESPN any more, which is the National Enquirer of sports to me...just a load of BS with a pinch of truth mixed in).

My biggest example of this was Manti Teo,  Anyone who has followed the draft and draft prospects/process that watched him in college could easily see he was a prospect that looked more like Rey Maualuga and EJ Henderson as a college prospect than a Ray Lewis, Jon Vilma, Luke Keuchly, etc.  Right?  Just from an athletic standpoint Teo never flashed that ability.  But Kiper found a way to keep him as the #1 overall pick all the way through february before the draft.  Any half assed scout could see he was a 2 down second rd prospect...but just like ESPN spent the entire college season comparing him to Ray Lewis, so did Kiper.  He never looked like that caliber of prospect...ever!

I enjoy what Kiper does, and read most of his work, but it annoys me how often he gets wrapped up in the ESPN hype machine...something someone who has been doing this as long as he has should be able to manage better.

[UntouchableCrew]

Very happy with Williams, and I hope he's DROY. But yeah, I'd trade him for Mariota in a heartbeat.

In an instant we have a franchise QB (and least it looks that way) and no more debates about Fitz and Geno... Just stability with lots of upside.

[J-Diddy]

hahaha, good post.  I can't stand Kiper and feel he's anything but a "draft expert," but his opinions are fun to read.  As it applies to this article, there's probably a broken clock analogy that applies to our good buddy Kiper that would be approproate.

Kiper is great.  He is the authority with the NFL Draft. Mayock & McShay are the real jokes.

 

[Jetster]

not to mention when his muscles turn to steel after a couple seasons in NFL strength regimen.

Lol, don't know if your being sarcastic but this is actually true based on his body type & young age. Leo just turned 21 & is carrying around a bit of baby fat. That tells me this guy is just naturally gifted & his upside is crazy when he gets MAN STRONG. 

NFL veterans talk about this all the time, young guys come into the league & especially in the trenches get intimidated by the speed & power of this game. Leo got thrown in with Sheldon suspended & learned VERY QUICKLY this is not college anymore by openly admitting that he was gassed & got himself too pumped up for the game.

in just 4 games we've discovered that Leo will be BETTER than Clowny (yea I said it, based on Clowneys injury history already). I don't think it's hyperbole to say Wiliams will be an all time great when it's all said on done based on his young age, the great coaching he's receiving from Kacey Rogers & Bowles, the Pros he's playing with on that Dline & the fact that he's got that distinctive Mane & huge smile when takes his helmet off on the sideline. 

He'll be a marketers dream, wait & see, and he'll be a face of the NFL that fans across the country will recognize.

[Jetster]

Lol, don't know if your being sarcastic but this is actually true based on his body type & young age. Leo just turned 21 & is carrying around a bit of baby fat. That tells me this guy is just naturally gifted & his upside is crazy when he gets MAN STRONG. 

NFL veterans talk about this all the time, young guys come into the league & especially in the trenches get intimidated by the speed & power of this game. Leo got thrown in with Sheldon suspended & learned VERY QUICKLY this is not college anymore by openly admitting that he was gassed & got himself too pumped up for the game.

in just 4 games we've discovered that Leo will be BETTER than Clowney ,yea I said it, based on Clowneys injury history already). I don't think it's hyperbole to say Wiliams will be an all time great when it's all said on done based on his young age, the great coaching he's receiving from Kacey Rogers & Bowles, the Pros he's playing with on that Dline & the fact that he's got that distinctive Mane & huge smile when takes his helmet off on the sideline. 

He'll be a marketers dream, wait & see, and he'll be a face of the NFL that fans across the country will recognize.

[Jetster]

oops double post.

[slats]

Where'd he rank Brandon Scherff?

[FidelioJet]

Lol, don't know if your being sarcastic but this is actually true based on his body type & young age. Leo just turned 21 & is carrying around a bit of baby fat. That tells me this guy is just naturally gifted & his upside is crazy when he gets MAN STRONG. 

NFL veterans talk about this all the time, young guys come into the league & especially in the trenches get intimidated by the speed & power of this game. Leo got thrown in with Sheldon suspended & learned VERY QUICKLY this is not college anymore by openly admitting that he was gassed & got himself too pumped up for the game.

in just 4 games we've discovered that Leo will be BETTER than Clowny (yea I said it, based on Clowneys injury history already). I don't think it's hyperbole to say Wiliams will be an all time great when it's all said on done based on his young age, the great coaching he's receiving from Kacey Rogers & Bowles, the Pros he's playing with on that Dline & the fact that he's got that distinctive Mane & huge smile when takes his helmet off on the sideline. 

He'll be a marketers dream, wait & see, and he'll be a face of the NFL that fans across the country will recognize.

This is some high praise.  If he turns out to be half of what you're suggesting we still have a great player.  "all time great" is a pretty big deal - hope you're right.

[jgb]

All fair points, sir.  He has to keep track of hundreds and hundreds of players throughout the college season, which is what makes reading his material so interesting.  And you may feel what I am about to say is covered in your statement " unless one wishes to cherry pick his big whiffs," but I do feel he at times gets caught up in the ESPN hype machine (I dont watch ESPN any more, which is the National Enquirer of sports to me...just a load of BS with a pinch of truth mixed in).

My biggest example of this was Manti Teo,  Anyone who has followed the draft and draft prospects/process that watched him in college could easily see he was a prospect that looked more like Rey Maualuga and EJ Henderson as a college prospect than a Ray Lewis, Jon Vilma, Luke Keuchly, etc.  Right?  Just from an athletic standpoint Teo never flashed that ability.  But Kiper found a way to keep him as the #1 overall pick all the way through february before the draft.  Any half assed scout could see he was a 2 down second rd prospect...but just like ESPN spent the entire college season comparing him to Ray Lewis, so did Kiper.  He never looked like that caliber of prospect...ever!

I enjoy what Kiper does, and read most of his work, but it annoys me how often he gets wrapped up in the ESPN hype machine...something someone who has been doing this as long as he has should be able to manage better.

Yes, Kiper certainly is not above criticism, just think it's important to keep it in perspective and not measure him against the impossible standard of infallibility. I also wonder whether the ESPN hype machine (I agree it exists) guides Kiper or whether it is created in part by him. A chicken or egg kind of thing

[jgb]

Lol, don't know if your being sarcastic but this is actually true based on his body type & young age. Leo just turned 21 & is carrying around a bit of baby fat. That tells me this guy is just naturally gifted & his upside is crazy when he gets MAN STRONG. 

NFL veterans talk about this all the time, young guys come into the league & especially in the trenches get intimidated by the speed & power of this game. Leo got thrown in with Sheldon suspended & learned VERY QUICKLY this is not college anymore by openly admitting that he was gassed & got himself too pumped up for the game.

in just 4 games we've discovered that Leo will be BETTER than Clowny (yea I said it, based on Clowneys injury history already). I don't think it's hyperbole to say Wiliams will be an all time great when it's all said on done based on his young age, the great coaching he's receiving from Kacey Rogers & Bowles, the Pros he's playing with on that Dline & the fact that he's got that distinctive Mane & huge smile when takes his helmet off on the sideline. 

He'll be a marketers dream, wait & see, and he'll be a face of the NFL that fans across the country will recognize.

I am being 100% serious. No college program can compare to NFL strength program where it is literally your job to lift weights. I would go so far as to say any 3 year starter in NFL is stronger than the strongest at his position in college.

[Jetster]

Where'd he rank Brandon Scherff?

LMAO! Can you believe the Redskins took a GUARD over Williams? I can't believe we got so lucky, the whole offseason I kept hearing all of these people on Sirius NFL radio stating Williams was the best overall player in the draft so I want even thinking about him during the draft, then when the Skins took Scherff I was like "holy sh*t", the NY Jets finally got lucky in the draft! Gil Brandt who I admire, and is really smart when it comes to scouting RAVED about Williams technique at such a young age.

You have to remember, he was 20 YEARS OLD during the combine!

[Jetster]

LMAO! Can you believe the Redskins took a GUARD over Williams? I can't believe we got so lucky, the whole offseason I kept hearing all of these people on Sirius NFL radio stating Williams was the best overall player in the draft so I want even thinking about him during the draft, then when the Skins took Scherff I was like "holy sh*t, the NY Jets finally got lucky in the draft"! Gil Brandt who I admire, and is really smart when it comes to scouting RAVED about Williams technique at such a young age.

You have to remember, he was 20 YEARS OLD during the combine!

[Jetman55]

This is some high praise.  If he turns out to be half of what you're suggesting we still have a great player.  "all time great" is a pretty big deal - hope you're right.

Well, fellow USC alum Ronnie Lott when asked to deliver a comparison of Williams to an NFL player said not to go too far with his comparison, but he could only think of 1 player that had Williams size, speed and ability...Reggie White.  He said they'd never be another Reggie White, but if someone could play like Reggie in today's NFL, he thinks it would be Williams.

Reggie White is a name most hall of famers don't like to use...not even when talking about JJ Watt...so I was VERY impressed with Lott's statement.

I do think Williams can be an all time great.  I really do. He's already on track for a JJ Watt type rookie year (50 tackles and 5.5 sacks) and ahead of where Warren Sapp was as a rookie (17 tackles and 3 sacks as a rookie).  

I think we drafted a very, very special player...

http://nypost.com/2015/05/02/phenomenal-jets-top-pick-can-devastate-qbs-stop-gronkowski/

Hall of Fame safety Ronnie Lott, a fellow USC Trojan, was gushing Friday over Leonard Williams.

“He’s going to be a phenomenal football player for New York,” Lott told The Post.

“You like players that can do a lot of different things. I don’t want to say he’s in the category of a Reggie White ’cause Reggie was a phenomenal football player. But he has that kind of stuff in him. Will he be Reggie White? I don’t know. If his heart and his mind … he could be that type of dominant player.”

[Flushing Roots]

Mel's a mensch.

[detectivekimble]

Well, fellow USC alum Ronnie Lott when asked to deliver a comparison of Williams to an NFL player said not to go too far with his comparison, but he could only think of 1 player that had Williams size, speed and ability...Reggie White.  He said they'd never be another Reggie White, but if someone could play like Reggie in today's NFL, he thinks it would be Williams.

Reggie White is a name most hall of famers don't like to use...not even when talking about JJ Watt...so I was VERY impressed with Lott's statement.

I do think Williams can be an all time great.  I really do. He's already on track for a JJ Watt type rookie year (50 tackles and 5.5 sacks) and ahead of where Warren Sapp was as a rookie (17 tackles and 3 sacks as a rookie).  

I think we drafted a very, very special player...

http://nypost.com/2015/05/02/phenomenal-jets-top-pick-can-devastate-qbs-stop-gronkowski/

Hall of Fame safety Ronnie Lott, a fellow USC Trojan, was gushing Friday over Leonard Williams.

“He’s going to be a phenomenal football player for New York,” Lott told The Post.

“You like players that can do a lot of different things. I don’t want to say he’s in the category of a Reggie White ’cause Reggie was a phenomenal football player. But he has that kind of stuff in him. Will he be Reggie White? I don’t know. If his heart and his mind … he could be that type of dominant player.”

Getting a little out of hand.  Wilkerson is as good of an athlete, if not better, than Williams.  That said, Williams is the better football player at the same stage.

Williams and Darby have been excellent.  Both deserve DROY.

OROY will be between Mariota, Gurley, and Cooper.

 

 

[Jetman55]

Getting a little out of hand.  Wilkerson is as good of an athlete, if not better, than Williams.  That said, Williams is the better football player at the same stage.

Williams and Darby have been excellent.  Both deserve DROY.

OROY will be between Mariota, Gurley, and Cooper.

 

 

Getting out of hand?  You know football better than Ronnie Lott?  Fascinating.  What's you name?  Stop.  Don't answer.  I already know it.  Never Heard of You.  Nice to meet you.  I respect Ronnie Lott's opinion over "Never Heard of You."

[detectivekimble]

Getting out of hand?  You know football better than Ronnie Lott?  Fascinating.  What's you name?  Stop.  Don't answer.  I already know it.  Never Heard of You.  Nice to meet you.  I respect Ronnie Lott's opinion over "Never Heard of You."

You're telling me that the only other player who had/has that type of size, speed and ability is Reggie White?
 

Have you heard of JJ Watt? Mario Williams? Julius Peppers?  Get the **** out of here.

 

And if being a great player makes you such a great evaluator of talent, then Michael Jordan would have been a great GM.

[southparkcpa]

Getting out of hand?  You know football better than Ronnie Lott?  Fascinating.  What's you name?  Stop.  Don't answer.  I already know it.  Never Heard of You.  Nice to meet you.  I respect Ronnie Lott's opinion over "Never Heard of You."

IMO.  The background of someone like  our GM, MCG is the best type background.

Start at the bottom as an assistant scout, on the road for years.  Move to assistant and then run player development.

These athletes who move to executive roles sometimes fall very flat. 

Great GMs rarely played.   I can't think of a player who was a great GM although I'm certain they exist. Elway is too early.

[Joe W. Namath]

Williams has been good but 0 sacks is a bit disappointing.  Cooper, Gurley,  cb from chiefs, tyler lockett are all guys that have made huge impacts on their team.  I would rank all of them ahead of williams.

[Savage69]

IMO.  The background of someone like  our GM, MCG is the best type background.

Start at the bottom as an assistant scout, on the road for years.  Move to assistant and then run player development.

These athletes who move to executive roles sometimes fall very flat. 

Great GMs rarely played.   I can't think of a player who was a great GM although I'm certain they exist. Elway is too early.

Ever hear of  Ozzie Newsome??

 

[Jetman55]

inexact science a 50% hit rate in draft puts you in hall of fame as a GM. Kiper's pretty good unless one wishes to cherry pick his big whiffs and hold those out as evidence he sucks. not to mention we only judge GMs on an average of 7 picks per year, that they must feel pretty confident about to choose them over all the available players. Kiper has to rank and publicly publish his opinion on like 300 guys.

even ozzie newsome gets it wrong. he took courtney upshaw over alshon jeffrey and bobby wagner in 2012. he must suck!

he's an idiot...like Ronnie Lott apparently...our fanbase thinks they are smarter than both Newsome and Lott...again, fascinating.

[southparkcpa]

Ever hear of  Ozzie Newsome??

 

theres one..... of course theres always some.

[jgb]

he's an idiot...like Ronnie Lott apparently...our fanbase thinks they are smarter than both Newsome and Lott...again, fascinating.

Check out the old Chris Ivory thread to see how accurate we are as a board. So many complaints about him being injury-prone, that a 4th was too much, etc.

Not saying it's bad to have an opinion and be wrong... just think it's easy to cherry pick some bad calls from a guy like Kiper who has to put it all out there and call him bad.

[Jetman55]

Check out the old Chris Ivory thread to see how accurate we are as a board. So many complaints about him being injury-prone, that a 4th was too much, etc.

Not saying it's bad to have an opinion and be wrong... just think it's easy to cherry pick some bad calls from a guy like Kiper who has to put it all out there and call him bad.

that's different from someone acting like Ronnie Lott can't be right because guys like wilkerson and watts walk the planet.  Are any of us seriously putting Wilkerson in the same category as Reggie white?  Hope not.  Also, comparing peppers and Mario Williams to white is just stupid...but you need to go back to the original statement I'm arguing.

while I agree watt is the closest thing this league has had to Reggie white, watt does it at 288, 285, 280.  White and Williams were 295-300.  

We will see how good williams becomes...but I see no reason to piss on a Ronnie Lott scouting report.  How many positive reviews of college players have you heard of from Ronnie Lott?   I'm guessing not many...

[jgb]

that's different from someone acting like Ronnie Lott can't be right because guys like wilkerson and watts walk the planet.  Are any of us seriously putting Wilkerson in the same category as Reggie white?  Hope not.  Also, comparing peppers and Mario Williams to white is just stupid...but you need to go back to the original statement I'm arguing.

while I agree watt is the closest thing this league has had to Reggie white, watt does it at 288, 285, 280.  White and Williams were 295-300.  

We will see how good williams becomes...but I see no reason to piss on a Ronnie Lott scouting report.  How many positive reviews of college players have you heard of from Ronnie Lott?   I'm guessing not many...

I didn't see people talking bad on lott. I saw his comments. he is a HOF player that doesn't offer a lot of opinions. He must feel pretty confident. But we'll see. Certainly better to be noticed by players of Lott's caliber than not.

[Jetman55]

I didn't see people talking bad on lott. I saw his comments. he is a HOF player that doesn't offer a lot of opinions. He must feel pretty confident. But we'll see. Certainly better to be noticed by players of Lott's caliber than not.

Lott doesn't speak about players much...fact..and when he does he compares someone to Reggie White.  That was my only point.  If Barry Sanders compared a someone to Gale Sayers...I'd pay attention and wouldn't piss on Barry Sander's thoughts.  I guess some people have less respect for the greats than I do...which is okay I guess.

[chirorob]

IMO.  The background of someone like  our GM, MCG is the best type background.

Start at the bottom as an assistant scout, on the road for years.  Move to assistant and then run player development.

These athletes who move to executive roles sometimes fall very flat. 

Great GMs rarely played.   I can't think of a player who was a great GM although I'm certain they exist. Elway is too early.

Ozzie

[detectivekimble]

that's different from someone acting like Ronnie Lott can't be right because guys like wilkerson and watts walk the planet.  Are any of us seriously putting Wilkerson in the same category as Reggie white?  Hope not.  Also, comparing peppers and Mario Williams to white is just stupid...but you need to go back to the original statement I'm arguing.

while I agree watt is the closest thing this league has had to Reggie white, watt does it at 288, 285, 280.  White and Williams were 295-300.  

We will see how good williams becomes...but I see no reason to piss on a Ronnie Lott scouting report.  How many positive reviews of college players have you heard of from Ronnie Lott?   I'm guessing not many...

Are you kidding me?  Mario Williams measured in at 6'6" and 295lbs.  He ran a 4.7 forty yard dash and had a 40.5".  Mario Williams can also play DE, DT, OLB.  Explain to me how Leonard Williams is a better athlete?  Leonard Williams can be a great player, but let's not act like we haven't seen athletes like him (or better than him) since Reggie White.  

Ronnie Lott is a USC homer, so I'm not surprised to hear him say something like that.

[southparkcpa]

Ozzie

ONE......

[Jetster]

Scouts look to see how Dlineman move, use their hands, slide off blocks ect. Williams was dominating at USC & was 20 years old. Gil Brandt "the godfather" of the NFL thought Leo was the best player in the draft, he called him a CAN'T MISS PROSPECT.

The fact that others speak highly of him just confirms to me that we may have drafted a special player. He's getting great coaching, he's playing next to some really good players in Mo, Shel & Snacks, he learn tricks from all of them. Just enjoy him, he's only going to get stronger & better with experience. 

[papz187]

That's a really good question.  Yes, I do think I would trade Leo for Mariota.  Both have big upsides but the supply/demand for quality QB's is what drives the decision...

Agree 100%. Love Williams, but when you have a chance to get a top, young QB prospect with plenty of potential you have to take him because of how great ton impact he can have on a team if he pans out where a guy like Williams could even be the next JJ Watt (and as great as that would be) he isn't affecting the game in the same stratosphere as a QB can (see the Texans for example).

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

[papz187]

It's gonna be fun to see Williams and company destroy that Redskins line where the guy they drafted over Williams is playing......should be fun to watch!

Sent from my SM-N915T using Tapatalk

[chirorob]

ONE......

You said you couldn't think of a player.  I gave you one.

But generally, no.  What make a great player does not translate to a great coach or a great front desk person.  Peyton Manning is/was great because he works really hard, and can see the whole field.  As a coach, he may get very frustrated when other QB's can't see what he sees. 

[Bruce Harper]

IMO.  The background of someone like  our GM, MCG is the best type background.

Start at the bottom as an assistant scout, on the road for years.  Move to assistant and then run player development.

These athletes who move to executive roles sometimes fall very flat. 

Great GMs rarely played.   I can't think of a player who was a great GM although I'm certain they exist. Elway is too early.

Newsome.

 

Edit:   A little late on the draw, I guess.  Does Jerry West count?

[#27TheDominator]

IMO.  The background of someone like  our GM, MCG is the best type background.

Start at the bottom as an assistant scout, on the road for years.  Move to assistant and then run player development.

These athletes who move to executive roles sometimes fall very flat. 

Great GMs rarely played.   I can't think of a player who was a great GM although I'm certain they exist. Elway is too early.

How many non-players do you think were "great GMs"?  Plenty of these guys played.  That nut in Cleveland that tries to call plays, the guy in Oakland and his brother that sleeps at the combine.  The dude in KC.  Mayhew is in Detroit.  Chris Spielman's brother is in Minny.  I think that literally every GM is a player or frustrated player.  Just cause guys didn't make it in the NFL doesn't mean they weren't players.  I guess the point that being a good player does not equate with being a good talent evaluator stands, but being around the game certainly doesn't hurt.