sirlancemehlot Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Because I'm going to do the unthinkable. Criticize Mike Macagnan. I hated Tannenbaum because he pissed away money (read: cap space) like a drunken sailor. Well. Idzik, love him or hate him, he fixed the Tannenbaum problem. He cut dead weight, signed very few, and turned the Jets cap into one of the best situations in the league, from one of the worst. One year removed and we're in the worst cap hell in the league. And we're about to lose our starting running back, nose tackle, quarterback, and already cut our #2 corner. This isn't Idzik vs. Mac. It's Mac vs. 31 other GM's in the league. Take a deep breath now, and give me running start...Mac did a bad job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Our guy wins GM of the year and now he is bum...... Come on..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 To play devils advocate, our #2 CB was awful, the fault in Mac was signing him at all. Ivory is looking for 6.5m per year for 3 years. Good luck with that. He's worth about 1.5 per year. Snacks is good, but he's a part time player about to make premium money. Can't fault much of these 3. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallinPB Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 How about we wait to see what the roster will look like in June. I'm not going to criticize Mac. He put this team in a great position to win last year. 10-6 will usually get you in the playoffs 80-90% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said: Because I'm going to do the unthinkable. Criticize Mike Macagnan. I hated Tannenbaum because he pissed away money (read: cap space) like a drunken sailor. Well. Idzik, love him or hate him, he fixed the Tannenbaum problem. He cut dead weight, signed very few, and turned the Jets cap into one of the best situations in the league, from one of the worst. One year removed and we're in the worst cap hell in the league. And we're about to lose our starting running back, nose tackle, quarterback, and already cut our #2 corner. This isn't Idzik vs. Mac. It's Mac vs. 31 other GM's in the league. Take a deep breath now, and give me running start...Mac did a bad job. Mac did a bad job of building a 10-6 team or did a bad job in this years free agency THAT JUST STARTED?????? Take a deep breath and relax. The few teams with cap space are spending it now (Jags/Giants) and the teams without cap space are sitting back and waiting to go bargain hunting. When you build a team you can't ALWAYS enter free agency with tons of cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 ...you are probably going to lose some reputation over this one. I agree that Idzik did a good job with fixing our cap issues however he also didn't sign us any of the players we desperately needed. Macc Spent a lot of money, a whole lot of it...by rule he had to spend most of the money he did so if Idzik were still here we would have likely been in the same position with a better draft pick and worse players on our roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 How did those pieces he brought in for 2015 perform ? what results did the team do in 2015 compared to the years before? are the "experts" who awarded him executive of the year all wrong & you are right? Are 2016 results complete ... Or is it still in the middle of seeing what he's got going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: Mac did a bad job of building a 10-6 team or did a bad job in this years free agency THAT JUST STARTED?????? Take a deep breath and relax. The few teams with cap space are spending it now (Jags/Giants) and the teams without cap space are sitting back and waiting to go bargain hunting. When you build a team you can't ALWAYS enter free agency with tons of cap space. doesn't start for another 4 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 He and bowles did a good job of getting results almost right away. This actually should give them time to do a rebuild on the fly. If they didn't sign anyone and the jets were 7-9 last year their leash would be shorter. I still look at all of our 'problem' contracts and the biggest one for me is the one that no one talks about, Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgivs21 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I feel like I'm taking crazy pills every time someone brings this up. We needed to spend that money last year: http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/02/why_the_jets_are_required_to_spend_on_players_like.html And when you look at it this year, do you really think Ivory is worth 6.5 M per year? Fitz looking for 15M? The only thing I can really fault him on is overpaying Revis, but if we didn't get him, who's our #1 corner? Cro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Not to go all Integrity28 here, but I expressed some concerns last offseason about the logic behind signing older vets like Revis and Cromartie to expensive deals when he had a clean slate to work with, no QB, and (most importantly), could reasonably scapegoat a bad 2015 record on Rex and Idzik. Instead, he gave money to win-now guys when the team isn't ready to win, and now they're in purgatory. Maccagnan better have a few tricks up his sleeve--particularly with the QB position--or this regime is about to be on the hot seat as soon as next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shuler82 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Mac had to spend the money. Both because of league requirements and the wasteland that was our roster. What has backfired in a weird way is how well Fitz played last year. In hindsight, maybe Mac should've offered him an extension once the season got on the way and it was apparent that the team wanted no part in playing Geno. The direction of this offseason hinges on what they decide to do with Mo. That $15M albatross is preventing us from filling out the rest of our roster. The fact that it's gotten to this point signifies to me that either Mo's demands were too high, or the team is comfortable rolling with Williams and Richardson next year. Either way, they need to move that money off their books to have the ability to bring some guys in. As for the guys we are/will lose - Ivory, Harrison, maybe Powell and Davis - godspeed. There are a lot of teams with money to throw around this off season, and players will be over paid. And overpaying talent at non premium positions is not the smart way to build a roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Not to go all Integrity28 here, but I expressed some concerns last offseason about the logic behind signing older vets like Revis and Cromartie to expensive deals when he had a clean slate to work with, no QB, and (most importantly), could reasonably scapegoat a bad 2015 record on Rex and Idzik. Instead, he gave money to win-now guys when the team isn't ready to win, and now they're in purgatory. Maccagnan better have a few tricks up his sleeve--particularly with the QB position--or this regime is about to be on the hot seat as soon as next year. Revis is the only guy they are tied to. And I am fine with that. Nobody expected Fitzpatrick to play like he did and be in the conversation for a 15 mm contract. Otherwise they still have a ton of flexibility. Losing Ivory? Please, they needed to let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 13 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Not to go all Integrity28 here, but I expressed some concerns last offseason about the logic behind signing older vets like Revis and Cromartie to expensive deals when he had a clean slate to work with, no QB, and (most importantly), could reasonably scapegoat a bad 2015 record on Rex and Idzik. Instead, he gave money to win-now guys when the team isn't ready to win, and now they're in purgatory. Maccagnan better have a few tricks up his sleeve--particularly with the QB position--or this regime is about to be on the hot seat as soon as next year. The thing is by doing what they did, showing they can win in this league they have actually bought themselves more time to do a proper job. If they pulled an idzik and had 4 wins last year, then another 4 or 5 next year the knives would be getting sharpened. The cromartie contract was bad I'll agree with that but he was easily shed. The Revis one is a legit problem simply becasue he did not play to it. We are in a bind this year because Wilk had a great year and other dlineman are getting paid stupid money and same thing with fitz. The front office bought themselves a few years with a very credible 1st year and a step back seems inevitable. In the end the thing that will define Mac will be his drafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 As many have already stated, the Jets quite literally had to spend all of that money last year, based on CBA rules. The most criticized moves at the time were the signings of Cro, Gilchrist, and Carpenter. Cro signing criticism may have proven to be justified, but he is already gone with no cap penalty for it. Gilchrist and Carpenter were both being painted as unproven and supposed "desperation" signings from the Jets for position of needs, but both turned out to easily out-earn their paychecks. Let's not forget that Gilchrist's contract was another that was found to have an easy out after year 1 based on the structure, but you see absolutely no one suggesting he should go. Carpenter meanwhile is arguably the Jets best OL, and at worst second to Mangold. That's not to say everything the Jets have done in the past year is brilliant, but most of the over-inflated contracts they're having problems with preceded Maccagnan. The most popular names to bring up who need to be cut or take major paycuts are the likes of Brick, Kerley, and Cumberland, all of whom he inherited. That's not to say he's not going to be responsible for correcting these issues, as that's still his job, but trying to throw him under the boss before anything has even happened this year is rather absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 24 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: Mac did a bad job of building a 10-6 team or did a bad job in this years free agency THAT JUST STARTED?????? Take a deep breath and relax. The few teams with cap space are spending it now (Jags/Giants) and the teams without cap space are sitting back and waiting to go bargain hunting. When you build a team you can't ALWAYS enter free agency with tons of cap space. But it's not about free agency. That was last year clearly. Not getting Mo under contract while throwing buckets of cash at guys like Buster Skrine when you already had a lot of cash tied up in CB...bad job. Going from first to worst with the cap and not retaining Harrison, a home grown talent...bad job. Losing your starting QB because you've only got 6mil in cap room after only one year. Bad job. Neg-me up fellas. I can take it. Neg rep only ensures posters won't state an unpopular opinion. Quickest route to a homers-only board if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Jet fans suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 38 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said: Because I'm going to do the unthinkable. Criticize Mike Macagnan. I hated Tannenbaum because he pissed away money (read: cap space) like a drunken sailor. Well. Idzik, love him or hate him, he fixed the Tannenbaum problem. He cut dead weight, signed very few, and turned the Jets cap into one of the best situations in the league, from one of the worst. One year removed and we're in the worst cap hell in the league. And we're about to lose our starting running back, nose tackle, quarterback, and already cut our #2 corner. This isn't Idzik vs. Mac. It's Mac vs. 31 other GM's in the league. Take a deep breath now, and give me running start...Mac did a bad job. giving credit to idzik for fixing the cap is like you telling your wife you got an awesome deal on a used car for her. until she finds out the car wont start, cant stop, and has a milk crate where the front seat used to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 So does anyone even know what a Bowles blueprint on defense looks like? I have no idea as he seems to do an excellent job adjusting to the talent. I remember reading some articles from last year where he'd essentially play two "down linemen" in Az, Darnell Dockett, a traditional 3-tech and play him over nose a lot, along with Calias Campbell, a 5t. And then most of that top talent missed games in 2014 and yet they still had a top 5 D. ie I don't see any real problem on defense. I can see them wanting more younger, faster linebackers, which isn't cap gauging. On offense, the easiest position to fill is Running back. There are a few elite and the about hundred who are serviceable. Fitzpatrick was a nice story but I'm all for, 100% behind not paying him a dime for more than he's worth. And he's nowhere close to 15M. what else, yeah the OL needs some adjusting. Ok ok so all in all its going to be the same story, that until they land a franchise QB people are going to fret over sh*t that doesn't matter. Every team has holes in today's NFL. Either need an elite defense or Qb or some combination that's close to both. And again, screw Fitspatrick if he want 15M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 19 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Not to go all Integrity28 here, but I expressed some concerns last offseason about the logic behind signing older vets like Revis and Cromartie to expensive deals when he had a clean slate to work with, no QB, and (most importantly), could reasonably scapegoat a bad 2015 record on Rex and Idzik. Instead, he gave money to win-now guys when the team isn't ready to win, and now they're in purgatory. Maccagnan better have a few tricks up his sleeve--particularly with the QB position--or this regime is about to be on the hot seat as soon as next year. You are aware that signing Cro last year has no impact on their cap situation this year? He was cut with no impact on this years cap. Mccags may just be a little smarter than you and the rest of this board since he signed a few guys that can be cut without effecting this years cap. The Revis signing was a little pricey, but you can't win in the NFL without a few high priced players. If we never signed Revis or Skrine, let Mo Wilk walk, never traded for Brandon we'd be in great cap situation right now only needing to spend that available cap money on guys like Revis, Skrine, Mo Wilk and Brandon Marshall. See how retarded that sounds? Basically, you are saying that we'd be better off not having good players so that we could have more cap space to sign good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, The Crusher said: Jet fans suck. We are not happy being happy and we are not happy being sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 18 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said: But it's not about free agency. That was last year clearly. Not getting Mo under contract while throwing buckets of cash at guys like Buster Skrine when you already had a lot of cash tied up in CB...bad job. Going from first to worst with the cap and not retaining Harrison, a home grown talent...bad job. Losing your starting QB because you've only got 6mil in cap room after only one year. Bad job. Neg-me up fellas. I can take it. Neg rep only ensures posters won't state an unpopular opinion. Quickest route to a homers-only board if you ask me. I'm a big fan of posters who take unpopular or unusual opinions ... As long as their views are well supported and explained and make sense. your opinion does none of this ... That deserves neg rep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 40 minutes ago, T0mShane said: Not to go all Integrity28 here, but I expressed some concerns last offseason about the logic behind signing older vets like Revis and Cromartie to expensive deals when he had a clean slate to work with, no QB, and (most importantly), could reasonably scapegoat a bad 2015 record on Rex and Idzik. Instead, he gave money to win-now guys when the team isn't ready to win, and now they're in purgatory. Maccagnan better have a few tricks up his sleeve--particularly with the QB position--or this regime is about to be on the hot seat as soon as next year. Combination of bad drafting and continuously drafting the same two positions...then overcompensating with the Revis return. Also doesnt help that Williams plays a position we had zero need for and Smith looks like another second rounder who cant play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 23 minutes ago, sirlancemehlot said: But it's not about free agency. That was last year clearly. Not getting Mo under contract while throwing buckets of cash at guys like Buster Skrine when you already had a lot of cash tied up in CB...bad job. Going from first to worst with the cap and not retaining Harrison, a home grown talent...bad job. Losing your starting QB because you've only got 6mil in cap room after only one year. Bad job. Neg-me up fellas. I can take it. Neg rep only ensures posters won't state an unpopular opinion. Quickest route to a homers-only board if you ask me. Guy won GM of the year: That's a fact, not green goggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 19 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: You are aware that signing Cro last year has no impact on their cap situation this year? He was cut with no impact on this years cap. Mccags may just be a little smarter than you and the rest of this board since he signed a few guys that can be cut without effecting this years cap. The Revis signing was a little pricey, but you can't win in the NFL without a few high priced players. If we never signed Revis or Skrine, let Mo Wilk walk, never traded for Brandon we'd be in great cap situation right now only needing to spend that available cap money on guys like Revis, Skrine, Mo Wilk and Brandon Marshall. See how retarded that sounds? Basically, you are saying that we'd be better off not having good players so that we could have more cap space to sign good players. Honestly the only guy there worth the current contract is Marshall. We need to do a better job of assessing/not overrating our own talent. Wilkerson in context with the other elite pass rushers of the league- is not a max player. Neither is Revis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Combination of bad drafting and continuously drafting the same two positions...then overcompensating with the Revis return. Also doesnt help that Williams plays a position we had zero need for and Smith looks like another second rounder who cant play. Harrison is gone. We need him now. IMO the Revis signing was not just about the football field, it was to appease the fanbase who wanted him the year prior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: Harrison is gone. We need him now. Honestly Sheldon, Mo and another space eater at minimal cost with Beasley off the edge would have been better imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 46 minutes ago, Beerfish said: He and bowles did a good job of getting results almost right away. This actually should give them time to do a rebuild on the fly. If they didn't sign anyone and the jets were 7-9 last year their leash would be shorter. I think the opposite is the case. Maccagnan inherited an 4-12 embarrassment captained by two buffoons, so fielding anything remotely resembling a professional team last year would have been acceptable to most people. Instead he breaks the bank and wins 10 games, which sounds great, but actually shortens his leash. Part of this is the chokejob against the Bills, which means any residual good feelings about the season as a whole are shot through with anger and resentment. But the main problem is that our owner, media, and fans have a collective IQ in the mid-double digits, so they expect the arrow to constantly be pointing up, meaning that any patience that anyone may have had for a rebuild is now completely gone and if we don't make the playoffs next season, 2017 becomes do-or-die (leading to all sorts of delightful short-term fixes that the next guy will have to clean up, thus beginning the cycle anew). Right now, I'd say it's even money we have a new coach and GM in two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Matt39 said: Honestly the only guy there worth the current contract is Marshall. We need to do a better job of assessing/not overrating our own talent. Wilkerson in context with the other elite pass rushers of the league- is not a max player. Neither is Revis. Not really fair on the gm bc no star player is coming to / staying with the Jets without getting overpaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, dbatesman said: I think the opposite is the case. Maccagnan inherited an 4-12 embarrassment captained by two buffoons, so fielding anything remotely resembling a professional team last year would have been acceptable to most people. Instead he breaks the bank and wins 10 games, which sounds great, but actually shortens his leash. Part of this is the chokejob against the Bills, which means any residual good feelings about the season as a whole are shot through with anger and resentment. But the main problem is that our owner, media, and fans have a collective IQ in the mid-double digits, so they expect the arrow to constantly be pointing up, meaning that any patience that anyone may have had for a rebuild is now completely gone and if we don't make the playoffs next season, 2017 becomes do-or-die (leading to all sorts of delightful short-term fixes that the next guy will have to clean up, thus beginning the cycle anew). Right now, I'd say it's even money we have a new coach and GM in two years. Not from me. And I have been against that since it's happened. One game does not mask 15 others 2. It's the fans fault, not Mike Maccagnan's, also I think making the playoffs would have shortened their leash. If they fallback to 8-9 wins this year, fans can point to the schedule, injuries etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, HessStation said: Not really fair on the gm bc no star player is coming to / staying with the Jets without getting overpaid. Agreed. However I'd argue Revis isnt a star anymore. We're paying him at his 09 value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 1 minute ago, dbatesman said: I think the opposite is the case. Maccagnan inherited an 4-12 embarrassment captained by two buffoons, so fielding anything remotely resembling a professional team last year would have been acceptable to most people. Instead he breaks the bank and wins 10 games, which sounds great, but actually shortens his leash. Part of this is the chokejob against the Bills, which means any residual good feelings about the season as a whole are shot through with anger and resentment. But the main problem is that our owner, media, and fans have a collective IQ in the mid-double digits, so they expect the arrow to constantly be pointing up, meaning that any patience that anyone may have had for a rebuild is now completely gone and if we don't make the playoffs next season, 2017 becomes do-or-die (leading to all sorts of delightful short-term fixes that the next guy will have to clean up, thus beginning the cycle anew). Right now, I'd say it's even money we have a new coach and GM in two years. To sum up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmat321 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Lets get a kickstarter going. We need to secure some billboards in time for the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Plus honestly, what's the worst thing that can happen? They go 4-12 and they get a high draft pick, thus continuing the rebuilding process. If the fans can't stand the heat of rebuilding, get out of the kitchen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Just now, jmat321 said: Lets get a kickstarter going. We need to secure some billboards in time for the draft. WORST FANBASE IN THE NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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