For Those Still Crying About Lee

[Integrity28]

6 minutes ago, legler82 said:

So putting a 300 lbs 3 teqhnique DT at OLB in your base 3-4 or drafting a guy to fill a specific role in a sub package is scheming around personnel?   

The first part is, yes.

Bowles has excess great DL, he found a way to get his best players on the field.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

I mean mostly every single expert opinion on this guy said it was a good pick. Hey acknowledged his size, but compared to the LBs Bowles had in Arizona.

So who should I side with, fans or experts?

[Lupz27]

Just now, Dcat said:

He sounded very inrtelligent in his interview last night on WESPN-NY with Roberts.  He was a 31 on the wonderasslick test too.  Very serious, smart kid.  Mature for his age.

Also a former HS QB, turned down multiple scholarships to run a dual threat offense as a QB because he wanted to go to Ohio St. so bad.  He understands the game from the other side of the ball.

[JetBlue]

28 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I get this.  Yet we haven't had a LB that could cover in longer than I could remember.  Is it this the kid? No idea never heard of him before last night.   I will take your word that guys we could draft later could fill the same need. No way to judge this kid Until  we see him play.   He should just be good he should impact the defense.  You would hope a 20th overall would.  As of right now I'm just hoping we can feel more needs in the later rounds.  We certainly have our share. 

Multiple mock drafts had this guy going 17 to the Falcons to play in Bob Quinns defense. The guy everyone had a hard on about being our HC. Instead Bowles drafted him at 20.  How is this not a good pick especially considering the dinosaurs we had roaming in our front seven?  There is always the possibility that someone drafted later could be as good. Just like Hackenberg, Cook, Hogan, or even Cardale Jones could be better than Lynch in a few years.   On paper our defense just got a lot better. 

[JetBlue]

11 minutes ago, Pcola said:

But we pick an ILB that won't be on the field very much his first year.  Ok.

And you know this how?  Man you are really annoying, do you know that?  Can't you just let it go and give the guy chance?

[prime21]

Is the QB way better at 20 than a QB in the 2nd round?

A lot of people say this is a bad pick but I don't really hear that he is a bad player.   He will be utilized in schemes that we wish we could have had him for last season.  He is a NY Jet now.  Let's start focusing on the 2nd round.

[legler82]

6 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

 

Wrong to both of you. He will START in the sub package and get more playing time. It is much easier to climb the LB depth chart than the WR depth chart on this team.

 

How is asking a question wrong?  Your homerism is screwing with your reading comprehension.

[legler82]

5 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

The first part is, yes.

Bowles has excess great DL, he found a way to get his best players on the field.

 

Having Richardson stand up at OLB is the best way to get way to get his best DL's on the field at the same time rather than just playing an even front?

[JetBlue]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

How is asking a question wrong?  Your homerism is screwing with your reading comprehension.

Nothing to do with homerism. He simply showed that your assumption was incorrect, stings huh? 

[Integrity28]

Just now, legler82 said:

Having Richardson stand up at OLB is the best way to get way to get his best DL's on the field at the same time rather than just playing an even front?

It's a creative way, I didn't say it's the best way. It gives the offense a different look. You're arguing about this as though Richardson was lined up that way routinely. You're building an argument around the exception, not the norm.

There's a term for that.

[Pcola]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

 

Wrong to both of you. He will START in the sub package and get more playing time. It is much easier to climb the LB depth chart than the WR depth chart on this team.

 

I don't hate the pick but what the hell is our offense gonna be like?  Eventually you have to put some resources on the offense.  We keep building and rebuilding our defense without any kind of vision for our offense other than who is the cheapest option.  

Its going to be a disaster trying to fill all the holes we have on offense before we start losing all these #1 picks we have on defense to free agency.

With 6 #1 picks on our D, we couldn't find an ILB on day two that may not have been as good but good enough to fill the void yet not require us to burn yet another #1 pick on D?

In 2 or 3 seasons we can all look back and say that Macc  drafts were excellent because we gave Bowles the exact defense he wanted.  It won't matter that both were fired because we can't score points.

[FidelioJet]

9 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Multiple mock drafts had this guy going 17 to the Falcons to play in Bob Quinns defense. The guy everyone had a hard on about being our HC. Instead Bowles drafted him at 20.  How is this not a good pick especially considering the dinosaurs we had roaming in our front seven?  There is always the possibility that someone drafted later could be as good. Just like Hackenberg, Cook, Hogan, or even Cardale Jones could be better than Lynch in a few years.   On paper our defense just got a lot better. 

Atlanta has a QB and an offense that can put up points. 

[legler82]

3 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Nothing to do with homerism. He simply showed that your assumption was incorrect, stings huh? 

Ooooh burned.

[HessStation]

besides maybe 5 lbs, Lee doesn't even need to put on weight. You psychosluts.

[JetBlue]

4 minutes ago, legler82 said:

Ooooh burned.

Lol, just messing with you dude. 

[JetBlue]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Atlanta has a QB and an offense that can put up points. 

And.... so we draft Lynch and watch him carry a clipboard this year and perhaps next? You do realize there is no guarantee that he beats out Petty who already has a year on him in the system? 

[Pcola]

13 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Is the QB way better at 20 than a QB in the 2nd round?

A lot of people say this is a bad pick but I don't really hear that he is a bad player.   He will be utilized in schemes that we wish we could have had him for last season.  He is a NY Jet now.  Let's start focusing on the 2nd round.

History says that yes, there is a vast difference between a 1st round QB and 2nd.   The Lee pick was great value but it was a luxury pick.  For a defensive coach to need 7#1 picks on his defense is pathetic.  

Teams are rarely in position to get a QB that has superstar potential.  I don't know if Paxton Lynch will become great but by the number of teams that were trying to move up to get him the minute we passed on him, indicates that they do.

[prime21]

History says that yes, there is a vast difference between a 1st round QB and 2nd.   The Lee pick was great value but it was a luxury pick.  For a defensive coach to need 7#1 picks on his defense is pathetic.  

Teams are rarely in position to get a QB that has superstar potential.  I don't know if Paxton Lynch will become great but by the number of teams that were trying to move up to get him the minute we passed on him, indicates that they do.

Luxury pick at a position with a depleted LB group that the best player is 32 years old??

[legler82]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

It's a creative way, I didn't say it's the best way. It gives the offense a different look. You're arguing about this as though Richardson was lined up that way routinely. You're building an argument around the exception, not the norm.

There's a term for that.

What's creative about it?  Rex did the exact same thing with Coples and so did Bowles for a while.  Once Coples was released Richardson was "routinely" our starting ROLB.  It may not appear as so only because we run a lot more sub packages like most teams in the NFL.  The point is that it shows a coach who is not willing to change his scheme around his personnel JUST LIKE Rex before him, Mangini before Rex, Herm before Rex even back to Parcells.  All are good defensive coaches but none showed the willingness change their scheme to fit their personnel.  Guys that run the 3-4 will always run that as their base and stick square pegs in round holes just to keep that line up.  Same goes with 4-3 guys, WCO guys on offense...etc...etc.. The only coach that has displayed the flexibility you speak of is maybe Bellicheat.

[C Mart]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

KRL is the crying police around here.  He determines who you're allowed to bash, whine or cry about.

I'm super excited about a shrimp S/LB hybrid at 20 because you cant find those guys in every round. 

Calvin Pace is still available...

gawd..can the guy play football and make plays?  

[Integrity28]

Just now, legler82 said:

What's creative about it?  Rex did the exact same thing with Coples and so did Bowles for a while.  Once Coples was released Richardson was "routinely" our starting ROLB.  It may not appear as so only because we run a lot more sub packages like most teams in the NFL.  The point is that it shows a coach who is not willing to change his scheme around his personnel JUST LIKE Rex before him, Mangini before Rex, Herm before Rex even back to Parcells.  All are good defensive coaches but none showed the willingness change their scheme to fit their personnel.  Guys that run the 3-4 will always run that as their base and stick square pegs in round holes just to keep that line up.  Same goes with 4-3 guys, WCO guys on offense...etc...etc.. The only coach that has displayed the flexibility you speak of is maybe Bellicheat.

Okay.

[JetBlue]

2 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Luxury pick at a position with a depleted LB group that the best player is 32 years old??

It seems folks either forget we have Petty in the fold or truly think he sucks.  He has been in the system for year now and has all the tools.  Hopefully he takes that next step in his development this year and challenges for the starting job and then wins it out right next year.   

[Dcat]

27 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I mean mostly every single expert opinion on this guy said it was a good pick. Hey acknowledged his size, but compared to the LBs Bowles had in Arizona.

So who should I side with, fans or experts?

obviously not the fans, because most of the fans complaining are walking around with an erection for Lynch, which is utterly ridiculous.  And now that Elway made a major mistake, they are even more sure of themselves.  Too funny.  No way do we want a stupid QB with poor decision making skills and projected as a 2nd round or worse project at pick #20.  We already have that in Geno.  

[KRL]

If anyone thinks Luke Kuechly's size only makes him effective in a 4-3
defense, you need to hand in your football card.  You're clueless 

[Pcola]

14 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Luxury pick at a position with a depleted LB group that the best player is 32 years old??

Bowles can't make his defense work with 6 #1 picks and several high priced veterans on his D?  All I am saying is Lee so much better than the 2nd and 3rd round options that made it worth it to completely ignore QB, LT, WR?  All positions that are either currently void of talent or will be within the next season or 2?

[UnitedWhofans]

29 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I don't hate the pick but what the hell is our offense gonna be like?  Eventually you have to put some resources on the offense.  We keep building and rebuilding our defense without any kind of vision for our offense other than who is the cheapest option.  

Its going to be a disaster trying to fill all the holes we have on offense before we start losing all these #1 picks we have on defense to free agency.

With 6 #1 picks on our D, we couldn't find an ILB on day two that may not have been as good but good enough to fill the void yet not require us to burn yet another #1 pick on D?

In 2 or 3 seasons we can all look back and say that Macc  drafts were excellent because we gave Bowles the exact defense he wanted.  It won't matter that both were fired because we can't score points.

Offense was not the problem last year. We drafted a WR last year. If you draft a WR this year, that basically says we goofed last year. That's dumb

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

It seems folks either forget we have Petty in the fold or truly think he sucks.

Most (far as I can tell) think he's sucks and will amount to nothing.

Not a view I share at this point in time.

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

 He has been in the system for year now and has all the tools.  Hopefully he takes that next step in his development this year and challenges for the starting job and then wins it out right next year.   

Agreed.

[Integrity28]

16 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

It seems folks either forget we have Petty in the fold or truly think he sucks.  He has been in the system for year now and has all the tools.  Hopefully he takes that next step in his development this year and challenges for the starting job and then wins it out right next year.   

Petty hasn't gone from 4th round rookie to HOFer in one year. Therefore, he's a lost cause.

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, Pcola said:

Bowles can't make his defense work with 6 #1 picks and several high priced veterans on his D?  All I am saying is Lee so much better than the 2nd and 3rd round options that made it worth it to completely ignore QB, LT, WR?  All positions that are either currently void of talent or will be within the next season or 2?

All the good OL were gone.

Only take the QB if you are sold on him, which they were not.

We just drafted a WR last year. That is not a priority

[C Mart]

14 minutes ago, Dcat said:

obviously not the fans, because most of the fans complaining are walking around with an erection for Lynch, which is utterly ridiculous.  And now that Elway made a major mistake, they are even more sure of themselves.  Too funny.  No way do we want a stupid QB with poor decision making skills and projected as a 2nd round or worse project at pick #20.  We already have that in Geno.  

lets slow down saying Elway made a mistake...I think he knows a thing or two about playing QB..whether Lynch develops, who knows. but you can't fault Elway's decision for taking an educated chance at the most important position.

[Pcola]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Offense was not the problem last year. We drafted a WR last year. If you draft a WR this year, that basically says we goofed last year. That's dumb

It's dumb because we saw so much potential from Smith?  Or is it dumb because Gailey uses mostly 4 WR sets?  

2016- No QB, injury riddled LT, 30+ yo RB

2017- No QB, Clady is cut due to $10M cap hit, Forte, Marshall, & Decker 2 years older.

2018- By now, we will have needed to replace both tackles, maybe C, QB, 2 RBs, and Marshall.  This doesn't take into account TE and guard positions where we currently have no answers.  

Macc better start heavily investing in the offense or he is going to get his ass fired and probably taking Bowles down with him.

[Jetsfan80]

The fact that Lee is being touted as a really incredible athlete is making me warm up to him a good bit.  Su'a Cravens might not have been there for us at 50.  Another comparable ILB might not have been there for us at 50 or later.  We've said for a while we needed to add athleticism to our LB corps, and Macc did that at 20.  It's hard for me to knock the pick.

Treadwell would have been an exciting pick at 20 and was the one I wanted.  Lee wasn't a top choice for me there.  And I do think Macc needs to make huge strides in adding offensive talent in the remainder of this draft as well as next year's draft.  But will Lee be a very good football player for us?  Yes.  So I'm not going to b*tch, and I'm willing to see how the rest of this draft plays out.

[Dcat]

10 minutes ago, C Mart said:

lets slow down saying Elway made a mistake...I think he knows a thing or two about playing QB..whether Lynch develops, who knows. but you can't fault Elway's decision for taking an educated chance at the most important position.

No, but I do fault those here now reaching the absurd conclusion that what may be right for Elway and the Broncs (and I don't think that he is) would have been automatically smart for the Jets.  2 teams in different positions.  Plus as great as you feel Elway is, I don't think he's right about Lynch. Yuk.  Again, it's only my opinion, but you can get the same level of talent/risk in round 2 or 3.  (The same exact argument that others are making about Lee who played the SAM position.)

[drdetroit]

We needed to get faster on D.  Even if we lose snacks but keep Mo we still have an excellent run defense

[32EBoozer]

6 hours ago, KRL said:

Know Bowles history.  Back in 2014 ARZ lost multiple front seven players
at the start of the season (Abraham, Dockett & Washington) but he had
an overabundance of secondary talent.  So to cover up for that deficiency
Bowles converted Deone Bucannon to a "speed LB" to attack the multiple
spread offenses opponents were running:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16723/deone-bucannon

That team went through 4 QB's (Palmer, Stanton, Lindley & Thomas) and still
won 11 games because of Bowles scheme.  After years of having "elephants"
at the LB position we are finally addressing the problem.  In addition
during Lee's rookie year he'll help us tremendously in special teams  

He returns Punts?!