Is it significant that PSU is much better w/o Hack

[Pointdexter]

Just pointing out that PSU is thriving in its first season without Hack. The argument that has always been made for Hack is that his supporting cast wasn't very good, and/or Coach Franklin was holding him back. It just seems like the offense and team as a whole is clicking better under a new QB. And I'm not sure the talent has been upgraded at all, especially considering Hack had 2 yrs of Allen Robinson on the roster.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Pointdexter said:

Just pointing out that PSU is thriving in its first season without Hack. The argument that has always been made for Hack is that his supporting cast wasn't very good, and/or Coach Franklin was holding him back. It just seems like the offense and team as a whole is clicking better under a new QB. And I'm not sure the talent has been upgraded at all, especially considering Hack had 2 yrs of Allen Robinson on the roster.

Not really. Usually college coaches need time to put in their system. Hack clearly did not fit Hacks system.

[JoJoTownsell1]

Tee Martin won a national title at Tennessee the year after Peyton Manning left....

Franklin prefers a spread offense where the QB is mobile.  McSorley is a typical college QB that has zero NFL skills, but he scrambles well and creates something out of nothing. Franklin misused Hack and  the Oline was HORRIBLE the last 2 years. 

[varjet]

3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Tee Martin won a national title at Tennessee the year after Peyton Manning left....

Franklin prefers a spread offense where the QB is mobile.  McSorley is a typical college QB that has zero NFL skills, but he scrambles well and creates something out of nothing. Franklin misused Hack and  the Oline was HORRIBLE the last 2 years. 

Colleges are in the entertainment business too, and running an NFL farm system no longer is the best path for a lot of schools.  Those systems require too much coaching and player intellect, and colleges can put together entertaining/winning teams relying on player athleticism.

[#bman]

I heard Boomer say this morning that, "He heard through the grapevine that Hack is still at least a year away"

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

Colleges are in the entertainment business too, and running an NFL farm system no longer is the best path for a lot of schools.  Those systems require too much coaching and player intellect, and colleges can put together entertaining/winning teams relying on player athleticism.

100pct. Very few schools run NFL style offenses. Even Saban went to the spread and has a run 1st QB. Unless you have an Andrew Luck type QB, it's better to  have a running QB that can make a play out of nothing.  

[rammagen]

7 minutes ago, #bman said:

I heard Boomer say this morning that, "He heard through the grapevine that Hack is still at least a year away"

it does not surprise me the way everyone says his motion is broken. The intangibles appear to be there though. The ability to read a defense and make adjustments, along with the arm strength

[J-Diddy]

Hack will start soon.

 

[Beerfish]

Perhaps the worst 2nd round pick out of a legion of awful awful 2nd round picks by this franchise.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Perhaps the worst 2nd round pick out of a legion of awful awful 2nd round picks by this franchise.

LMAO at SOJF's like you...

[Xtina]

Didn't they have sanctions on scholarhips and so forth that would have prevented them from attracting good talent, which are in the process of going away? I wonder if that could possibly have something to do with it 

[Xtina]

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

LMAO at SOJF's like you...

pretty amazing, the guy hasn't played a regular season down and he's already a wasted, trashed pick 

[LIJetsFan]

Just now, Xtina said:

pretty amazing, the guy hasn't played a regular season down and he's already a wasted, trashed pick 

You have to admit that it's worrisome that his mechanics are so broken that they can't even be addressed during the season.  It worries me.

[section314]

28 minutes ago, #bman said:

I heard Boomer say this morning that, "He heard through the grapevine that Hack is still at least a year away"

Everyone on this board, and every Jets fan alive would gladly wait till 2018 if Hack is gonna be that guy. In the meantime, let's see what Petty can do.

[Warfish]

Hack will never be "that guy" IMO.  

He's a guy whose entire resume is built on a fleeting moment as a high school kid, and one semi-decent year as a Freshman in college.

He was, I think, a pretty obvious reach pick, by a GM who fell in love with his own "I see what other don't" smarts.

But we'll see.  He's going to get a full redshirt year here in 2016.  We'll see if he's capable of playing the 4th quarter at the least in Preseason game #1 in 2017.  

Let hope he makes major, material, strides.

[UntouchableCrew]

Hackenberg didn't fit the system there. Not that I'm in any way optimistic in Hackenberg working out, but he was in a tough situation  -- plus this year Penn State finally got back the full allotment of scholarships which is important. Franklin has admitted they slow played it, red-shirting many of the recruits he got early on to build for the future.

So yeah, Penn State is better but it's not because Hack was so bad he was holding them back. There were other factors at play.

[jack48]

1 hour ago, Pointdexter said:

Just pointing out that PSU is thriving in its first season without Hack. The argument that has always been made for Hack is that his supporting cast wasn't very good, and/or Coach Franklin was holding him back. It just seems like the offense and team as a whole is clicking better under a new QB. And I'm not sure the talent has been upgraded at all, especially considering Hack had 2 yrs of Allen Robinson on the roster.

I now this sounds crazy, but what has playing QB int he NFL got to do with playing QB in the NCAA?

[Beerfish]

36 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

LMAO at SOJF's like you...

No this is an eval of the this pick and this pick only.  Feel free to ask me to evaluate any other moves the team, has made and you will get good and bad.  This was a dreadful pick from day one.

[greenwichjetfan]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Hack will never be "that guy" IMO.  

He's a guy whose entire resume is built on a fleeting moment as a high school kid, and one semi-decent year as a Freshman in college.

He was, I think, a pretty obvious reach pick, by a GM who fell in love with his own "I see what other don't" smarts.

But we'll see.  He's going to get a full redshirt year here in 2016.  We'll see if he's capable of playing the 4th quarter at the least in Preseason game #1 in 2017.  

Let hope he makes major, material, strides.

DWC!

[drdetroit]

Allen Robinson made his career.  Hack wouldn't even be on a roster let alone a 2nd rd pick if he didn't have Robinson

[dbatesman]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Hack clearly did not fit Hacks system.

First-ballot HOF Freudian slip.

[C Mart]

6 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Allen Robinson made his career.  Hack wouldn't even be on a roster let alone a 2nd rd pick if he didn't have Robinson

Guess Robinson's magic ran out when he got to Jacksonville. 

[Villain The Foe]

7 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Allen Robinson made his career.  Hack wouldn't even be on a roster let alone a 2nd rd pick if he didn't have Robinson

Maybe Allen Robinson should make Blake Bortles career. 

[Mogglez]

10 hours ago, Xtina said:

Didn't they have sanctions on scholarhips and so forth that would have prevented them from attracting good talent, which are in the process of going away? I wonder if that could possibly have something to do with it 

Nah couldn't be, cause you know, there are like, a billion of scouts on this forum that just haven't had their talent recognized yet.  They all conveniently knew Dak Prescott was gonna be the next Russell Wilson.  Just like they knew that Russell Wilson was gonna be the next Tom Brady.  

It's funny.  I also remember every person on this forum that hated Winston and/or Mariota during their draft and many of them are the same people who sh*t on Dak, Hack, etc. before this draft.  Kinda funny to see them jumping around about how Dak was their second favorite QB to Wentz (obvi)...wonder how that happens ?.

[Mogglez]

40 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Maybe Allen Robinson should make Blake Bortles career. 

Don't you know that if a top QB prospect plays with a top WR/RB/Talent he automatically owes his career to that talent and secretly sucks? Jeez, get with the times man.  How else are you gonna join the armchair elite?

I mean it's not like Jameis Winston, RGIII, DeShaun Watson, Matthew Stafford, Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater, ever had top talent on their teams.  Wait a minute...oh that's right they did!  It's almost as if....top talent...go to schools....where they can play...now stay with me here cuz this is important...WITH OTHER TOP TALENT AND COACHING.  

EVERYTHING I THOUGHT WAS A FACT...IS A LIE.

[dbatesman]

15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Nah couldn't be, cause you know, there are like, a billion of scouts on this forum that just haven't had their talent recognized yet.  They all conveniently knew Dak Prescott was gonna be the next Russell Wilson.  Just like they knew that Russell Wilson was gonna be the next Tom Brady.  

Can you imagine if there was a website that predicted both of those guys being good

[Mogglez]

4 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Can you imagine if there was a website that predicted both of those guys being good

Well aside from 2 or 3 people that really liked them here, that website sure as sh*t wouldn't have been this one.  Even then, not a God damn soul thought either one was going to be this good and saw what has happened with their careers coming.  

It's almost as if drafting a QB, outside of special talents (Luck, Winston, Stafford) is a f*cking crapshoot. Who would've thunk it? 

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Well aside from 2 or 3 people that really liked them here, that website sure as sh*t wouldn't have been this one.  Even then, not a God damn soul thought either one was going to be this good and saw what has happened with their careers coming.  

It's almost as if drafting a QB, outside of special talents (Luck, Winston, Stafford) is a f*cking crapshoot. Who would've thunk it? 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2012/lewin-career-forecast-2012

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/qbase-2016

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, Xtina said:

Didn't they have sanctions on scholarhips and so forth that would have prevented them from attracting good talent, which are in the process of going away? I wonder if that could possibly have something to do with it 

Wait, you mean adding players, scholarships etc might make a difference?  

Or a different schedule? 

Nah, none of this matters

[Mogglez]

29 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/2012/lewin-career-forecast-2012

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/qbase-2016

Wow, such a shame that the guys who invented this website aren't working for an NFL team and are regulated to blogging on the internet.  Someone should just draft QBs off of these super statz.  Seems as foolproof as SPARQ scorez.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"QBASE does not predict predict Prescott to be a likely NFL success"

 

"Robert Griffen comes out with the strongest LCF projection of any quarterback we've ever measured"

 

Top 10 LCF's since 1998:

Player                 Year         LCF

Robert Griffin 2012 (2530)

Philip Rivers 2004 (2476)

Drew Brees 2001(2190)

Colt McCoy 2010 (2092)

Carson Palmer 2003 (1973)

Peyton Manning 1998 (1784)

Andrew Luck 2012 (1749)

Chad Pennington 2000 (1678)

Brady Quinn 2007 (1518)

Jason Campbell 2005 (1506)

 

Oh. Well then.

[Jet Nut]

26 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Don't you know that if a top QB prospect plays with a top WR/RB/Talent he automatically owes his career to that talent and secretly sucks? Jeez, get with the times man.  How else are you gonna join the armchair elite?

I mean it's not like Jameis Winston, RGIII, DeShaun Watson, Matthew Stafford, Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater, ever had top talent on their teams.  Wait a minute...oh that's right they did!  It's almost as if....top talent...go to schools....where they can play...now stay with me here cuz this is important...WITH OTHER TOP TALENT AND COACHING.  

EVERYTHING I THOUGHT WAS A FACT...IS A LIE.

These is the same thinking that had most SOJFs claiming that Decker was a WR who owed his entire career to P Manning.  Yet played well with Geno and even better with Fitz.

 

[David Harris]

10 hours ago, Beerfish said:

No this is an eval of the this pick and this pick only.  Feel free to ask me to evaluate any other moves the team, has made and you will get good and bad.  This was a dreadful pick from day one.

Eating our own since 1971

[dbatesman]

18 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Wow, such a shame that the guys who invented this website aren't working for an NFL team and are regulated to blogging on the internet.  Someone should just draft QBs off of these super statz.  Seems as foolproof as SPARQ scorez.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"QBASE does not predict predict Prescott to be a likely NFL success"

Oh. Well then.

They didn't predict that any of them would be likely NFL successes, because most QBs aren't; for what it's worth, they did give him the second-lowest chance of busting out of any of the guys they studied. The point isn't to predict who'll be good or bad; it's to separate guys into piles. Guys who start tons of games and complete tons of passes tend to be average-or-better; guys who don't are shaky enough that they're practically not draftable, and certainly not draftable before day 3. So throw up your hands and call things a crapshoot and absolve Maccagnan of responsibility for flushing a 2 on Hackenberg if you want, but at this point the correlation is so strong and so well-established that you're basically saying there's just no way to know whether the earth is flat or round.

[Jet Nut]

14 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

They didn't predict that any of them would be likely NFL successes, because most QBs aren't; for what it's worth, they did give him the second-lowest chance of busting out of any of the guys they studied. The point isn't to predict who'll be good or bad; it's to separate guys into piles. Guys who start tons of games and complete tons of passes tend to be average-or-better; guys who don't are shaky enough that they're practically not draftable, and certainly not draftable before day 3. So throw up your hands and call things a crapshoot and absolve Maccagnan of responsibility for flushing a 2 on Hackenberg if you want, but at this point the correlation is so strong and so well-established that you're basically saying there's just no way to know whether the earth is flat or round.

At this point you have no clue, no one does, whether the pick was a waste or not.  

You think he'll suck.  Others don't.  Somehow with a shred of proof you want to lecture us why you're right. 

Why the F don't you just leave it alone until the kid plays.  So ****ed up

[dbatesman]

27 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Top 10 LCF's since 1998:

Player                 Year         LCF

Robert Griffin 2012 (2530)

Philip Rivers 2004 (2476)

Drew Brees 2001(2190)

Colt McCoy 2010 (2092)

Carson Palmer 2003 (1973)

Peyton Manning 1998 (1784)

Andrew Luck 2012 (1749)

Chad Pennington 2000 (1678)

Brady Quinn 2007 (1518)

Jason Campbell 2005 (1506)

 

Oh. Well then.

This didn't show up earlier for some reason, which is too bad, because it's some of your finest work. To be clear, your argument is that this model, which is attempting to quantify the most valuable and difficult-to-scout position in sports, is bad because it only hits 60% of the time.

This seems an opportune moment to point out that every single one of the guys you didn't bold has started at least four playoff games. Aren't numbers fun?