If McCown starts....

[varjet]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The reps are only valuable if the youth getting them have value. There's no value in giving Hack reps he doesn't deserve when the guy sucks terribly.

Here's a wild idea if the youth can't legitimately beat out the worst QB in the league (McCown) they don't deserve the reps.

I believe there is a plan here that we all might not agree with, but makes sense.  There are alot of balls to juggle:

• Out of the three QBs currently throwing in OTAs, at least 1 of them will be significantly injured.
• You have to keep the rest of the team (and the fans) engaged and not put out a putrid football product.
• There should be some development of the QBs during the season.
• Unfortunately, the Jets can't start the season trying to tank.  They need to put the best players at the time on the field.  When they are practically eliminated from the playoffs, then they should only be playing players that have futures.  it is this last part that has been goofed up so many times.

The McCown signing was a combination of brilliant and moronic.  Yes, the signed a veteran QB, with good character, and paid him too much money.  Theoretically, they could have gotten the same result with someone much cheaper.  But his record over the last few years is just awful.  Having him on your roster is like the Golden Ticket to a top draft pick.

So if he is the best player, I can see playing him.  Likelihood is that he gets hurt.  If one of the others start and then gets hurt, that will fee like moving backward. And then McCown gets hurt, and then who knows who plays.   Intuitively, I would like to see the Jets progress toward the future.  McCown is a bridge to that.  he will either stink or get hurt, and then it will be time to try out a QB of the future. 

Yes, the Jets will be hosed long-term if McCown has a Fitz 2015 year and wins, on a one year contract, and we don't know what Hack and Petty really look like, and we pick much lower in the draft.   Everyone is betting that does not happen and Bowles has his cake and eats it too.  The only way to avoid this is to not start McCown at all.

This does highlight the Hack dliemma-many teams decide to just go with their young QB to start, but those tend to be very high draft picks that teams are comfortable are at least quasi-competent.  Hack was over-drafted in the second round, and there is no assurance that he is quasi-competent.

Its sad that the goal is quasi-competence.

[Mike135]

3 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

This team is winning 10 games with or without McCown

Football games?

[Charlie Brown]

I don't get it those arguing for McCown to start don't see the insanity of it all!!

Because under their theory it would also be better to bring back Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith cause they are "currently" better than Hack or Petty.  

See that logic keeps you from EVER developing a young promising QB, with the outlandish claim that either Sanchez or Smith gives you the best chance to win now, while simultaneously destroying any hope for the future.

Jets Magic catch it!

[BurnleyJet]

7 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I don't get it those arguing for McCown to start don't see the insanity of it all!!

Because under their theory it would also be better to bring back Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith cause they are "currently" better than Hack or Petty.  

See that logic keeps you from EVER developing a young promising QB, with the outlandish claim that either Sanchez or Smith gives you the best chance to win now, while simultaneously destroying any hope for the future.

Jets Magic catch it!

100% The young guns either have it or they don't. If they stink, we will be picking Top 5, and in the running for one of the 2018 crop.

There is zero benifit to play Josh, he's 38 and winning two extra games just fooks us up.

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

Todd Bowles should be fired, even if somehow McCown captures Fitzmagic and leads Jets to winning season or playoffs. This season should be about nothing else but developing the young QB's and building team unity and NOTHING else. Thoughts on this?

i can't say i agree bowles needs to be fired but starting mccown is just the wrong move on so many levels.  mccown is a one year rental and at best he will get them to 8-8.

[jeremy2020]

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

But, definitely only fire the guy who starts McCown, and not the guy who paid McCown 6M and was unable to get anyone better than him on the roster.

yea, the guy who spent a 2nd round pick on a QB that can't beat out McCown needs to go..

[August]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

Is that not what's happening with Josh McCown? 

He's the presumed starter because he's playing the best out of the 3 of them. 

[nicg4360]

i can't say i agree bowles needs to be fired but starting mccown is just the wrong move on so many levels.  mccown is a one year rental and at best he will get them to 8-8.

There is not a shot in hell we go 8-8 or sniff that with McCown his record speaks to that. The past 3 years he has a shining 2-20 resume to boast to.
So if we chose to start one of ether petty or hack in all likelihood they would have to go something like 0 or 1 in 16 to do worse than McCown.

Sent from my Moto Z using JetNation.com mobile app

[glenn31]

2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

See that logic keeps you from EVER developing a young promising QB

Point to one of these that currently resides on the roster of the NYJ. Please do.

[JoJoTownsell1]

Bowles should be fired if he coaches likes he did last year. Starting Mccown for a few weeks until Hack is ready is fine by me. Mccown won't last more than a couple of weeks either way. 

[afjetsfan]

I think Josh will start.  Todd is coaching for his job...he doesn't have the luxury of letting the team lose to give Hack reps.  Unfortunately, unless Todd gets an extension prior to the beginning of the season (which I don't foresee) I just don't see Hack starting.  Luckily by week 6, Josh will either be injured or we'll be 0-6 giving Todd no incentive to stay with Josh and thus starts the Hack era.  Not sure it will be a long era though...

 

[Charlie Brown]

16 hours ago, glenn31 said:

Point to one of these that currently resides on the roster of the NYJ. Please do.

The key is with the Jets approach of playing ancient QBs we will never know.  

The Jets have had real opportunities to draft several QBs over the years but thier lack of a consistent plan IMO has rendered us with consistently inferior QB play. 

How do I know?

Well the results speak for themselves......

[Lil Woody]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

A football team is not a charity. Reps should not be given away they should be earned.

If Hackenberg can't earn Reps over Josh "Lost the last 20 of 22 games started" then he doesn't deserve the reps. 

The key word is earn. Not deserves. Hackenberg was the only QB4 in the NFL last year he got a scholarship year and deserves nothing. He didn't even deserve the redshirt year. 

If the Jets were honest about his abilities he would have been cut after the last draft and replaced with a player with actual value.  

That's what Hack deserves.

 

LOL. Teams need to develop QBs. That comes at the expense of veterans they don't beat out. So long as the kid doesn't fall on his face, the Jets should go with developing their youth over playing to sustain their mediocrity.  As to what Hack "deserves? Please. The kid is a developmental pick. Not sure why you are crying about them allowing him a RS year and keeping 4 QBs.  What would you have had them do?  Pay Geno to stay? Pay Fitztragic to stay? Get some loser like Kaep or Glennon in FA? There is only one way to get the QB.  You draft them and develop them. Hack needs to be developed. We all knew this. We had a steaming pile of crab before him and we have a steaming pile of crap now. At least Hack and Petty have potential value. The other options have none.

 

4 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

I don't get it those arguing for McCown to start don't see the insanity of it all!!

Because under their theory it would also be better to bring back Mark Sanchez or Geno Smith cause they are "currently" better than Hack or Petty.  

See that logic keeps you from EVER developing a young promising QB, with the outlandish claim that either Sanchez or Smith gives you the best chance to win now, while simultaneously destroying any hope for the future.

Jets Magic catch it!

Bingo. If Bowels starts McCown even once, he is basically saying that he is NOT part of the rebuild, not agreeing with the owners direction and not worth keeping for the following weeks game. Enter Interim Head Coach Stump Mitchell or whoever.

 

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Bowles should be fired if he coaches likes he did last year. Starting Mccown for a few weeks until Hack is ready is fine by me. Mccown won't last more than a couple of weeks either way. 

He should be fired regardless. Guy is proving to be a horrible coach. He needs to take 3 steps forward this season to keep his job. ot talking about W/Ls either. Smart game plans, Adjustments, relentless play every game from every single player, no more idiotic clock management. Guy regressed so badly last year and had enough warts in year 1 to cause concerns going into year 2. He has a ton of sins to make up for. Including the unforgivable one of losing the lockerroom. If Macc is granted another year, he needs to be allowed to pick his own coach.  If he gets sh*tcanned, HOPEFULLY our pathetic excuse for an owner will pick a GM first and be given the authority to hire the next coach and have the coach report to him directly....like a functional organization would do.

[long suffering jets fan]

5 hours ago, August said:

Your solution is to hand the job to them based on age? We've seen this locker room and their entitled players last year. You want players getting starting positions unearned? If Petty or Hackenberg is good they should beat out McCown it isn't like McCown is Peyton Manning or anything. 

Damn straight!  You want to start, beat Josh McCown.  That's the first test these young guys should pass.  Let's see if either step up.  Opportunity of a lifetime.  They gonna grab it, or drop the ball?

[RSJ]

McCown/Bates/Morton is the same exact thing the Jets did with Gailey/Fitz. So while I am hopeful that it will be Hack or Pettty starting the season, I also doubt it very much. Honestly though if McCown starts I have no faith this staff can develop a QB in the first place. Because basically anyone in the league can play at McCown's level.

[glenn31]

6 hours ago, RSJ said:

Because basically anyone in the league can play at McCown's level.

Does this also extend to the two stiffs that he's probably going to start over on the NYJ QB depth chart? While there is literally nothing to get excited for with Mccown, I wouldn't be so sure about the bolded.

[August]

15 hours ago, varjet said:

I believe there is a plan here that we all might not agree with, but makes sense.  There are alot of balls to juggle:

• Out of the three QBs currently throwing in OTAs, at least 1 of them will be significantly injured.
• You have to keep the rest of the team (and the fans) engaged and not put out a putrid football product.
• There should be some development of the QBs during the season.
• Unfortunately, the Jets can't start the season trying to tank.  They need to put the best players at the time on the field.  When they are practically eliminated from the playoffs, then they should only be playing players that have futures.  it is this last part that has been goofed up so many times.

The McCown signing was a combination of brilliant and moronic.  Yes, the signed a veteran QB, with good character, and paid him too much money.  Theoretically, they could have gotten the same result with someone much cheaper.  But his record over the last few years is just awful.  Having him on your roster is like the Golden Ticket to a top draft pick.

So if he is the best player, I can see playing him.  Likelihood is that he gets hurt.  If one of the others start and then gets hurt, that will fee like moving backward. And then McCown gets hurt, and then who knows who plays.   Intuitively, I would like to see the Jets progress toward the future.  McCown is a bridge to that.  he will either stink or get hurt, and then it will be time to try out a QB of the future. 

Yes, the Jets will be hosed long-term if McCown has a Fitz 2015 year and wins, on a one year contract, and we don't know what Hack and Petty really look like, and we pick much lower in the draft.   Everyone is betting that does not happen and Bowles has his cake and eats it too.  The only way to avoid this is to not start McCown at all.

This does highlight the Hack dliemma-many teams decide to just go with their young QB to start, but those tend to be very high draft picks that teams are comfortable are at least quasi-competent.  Hack was over-drafted in the second round, and there is no assurance that he is quasi-competent.

Its sad that the goal is quasi-competence.

If we're talking about a Fitzpatrick type year for McCown then that still wouldn't warrant keeping him out there for the whole season. One of the biggest mistakes of that year was keeping Fitzpatrick in the lineup. I think Bowles learnt his lesson from that whole experience. So if McCown has a hot start and tails off for a game or two, Bowles will make the switch. 

[flgreen]

If McCown starts, I'll be doing a lot of fishing on Sundays this fall.

[MDL_JET]

19 hours ago, bitonti said:

It's not Todd Bowles' fault that Josh McCown is his best option. It's not Bowles' fault that Petty sucks and Hack blows.

It's Mac's fault for making it that way.

Bowles is a good coach I dont' care what all the dummies say.  He's a former player, direct branch of the Parcells' coaching tree,  well respected around the league. This isn't a Herman situation. The guy has coaching skills. And unlike most of the good ole boys in the league, he's actually local which means he knows what it takes to live/succeed in this media marketplace.

In other words give Todd Bowles a legit QB he's John Fox.

What other QB options were better for this team? Who did we miss out on? Bring in Cutler? Throw the big contract at Glennon and go all in? I just don't understand what QBs we missed out on to make this all better. 

Shoukd Paxton Lynch been our starting QB right now? Is that what it is? 

[long suffering jets fan]

12 hours ago, RSJ said:

McCown/Bates/Morton is the same exact thing the Jets did with Gailey/Fitz. So while I am hopeful that it will be Hack or Pettty starting the season, I also doubt it very much. Honestly though if McCown starts I have no faith this staff can develop a QB in the first place. Because basically anyone in the league can play at McCown's level.

Different time, different QBs.  If we don't find a winner this year we draft 3 next year.

[thadude]

12 hours ago, RSJ said:

McCown/Bates/Morton is the same exact thing the Jets did with Gailey/Fitz. So while I am hopeful that it will be Hack or Pettty starting the season, I also doubt it very much. Honestly though if McCown starts I have no faith this staff can develop a QB in the first place. Because basically anyone in the league can play at McCown's level.

In Bowles's defense, and I think Bowles is terrible, you have to have talent in order to be developed

[long suffering jets fan]

25 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

What other QB options were better for this team? Who did we miss out on? Bring in Cutler? Throw the big contract at Glennon and go all in? I just don't understand what QBs we missed out on to make this all better. 

Shoukd Paxton Lynch been our starting QB right now? Is that what it is? 

If we brought Cutler in, we never would have seen what we had in Hackenberg/Petty.  We'd be better would off in the short term, I don't think we would be in the Long term.

[thadude]

6 hours ago, glenn31 said:

Does this also extend to the two stiffs that he's probably going to start over on the NYJ QB depth chart? While there is literally nothing to get excited for with Mccown, I wouldn't be so sure about the bolded.

Petty is the next Favre and Hack is the next Marino and if you don't think that you're a troll who is a closet patriots fan

[thadude]

4 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Different time, different QBs.  If we don't find a winner this year we draft 3 next year.

3 more Safeties?

[long suffering jets fan]

Just now, thadude said:

3 more Safeties?

Of course!

[MDL_JET]

2 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

If we brought Cutler in, we never would have seen what we had in Hackenberg/Petty.  We'd be better would off in the short term, I don't think we would be in the Long term.

Exactly. So no other options I'm seeing. Unless fans wanted us to draft Mahomes or Watson in the 1st and have him start, then I just don't see what better QB situation we could be in. 

[long suffering jets fan]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

Exactly. So no other options I'm seeing. Unless fans wanted us to draft Mahomes or Watson in the 1st and have him start, then I just don't see what better QB situation we could be in. 

Mahomes' not starting this year and he wouldn't here either.  Watson has a chance to start in Texas.

[Pcola]

19 hours ago, JiF said:

I disagree wholeheartedly, handing the Football to Josh McCown in any scenario gives the Jets zero value.  11 years of history says he's terrible and defends my position.  You're not learning anything about this team or doing anything for the future of this team by dicking around with Josh McCown.  **** sake, we just went through this same bull sh*t with Fitz who is a much better QB.  

Whereas, they just invested a 2nd round pick in Hack.  They should be pouring every ounce of effort into making him be the best he can be.  Not wasting time with Josh McCown who shouldnt have been signed in the first place.  That's what he deserves.  Not being cast off into a corner for Josh ******* McCown.  Let Hack and Petty play.  Let them fail or let them succeed.  There is hope for success.  Albeit a little but there is hope.  There is zero hope for success with Josh McCown.  It's wasting everyone's time and taking away from the progression of your 2nd round investment.  

You know why I know I'm right?  The Jets are doing it.  And the Jets dont do anything right.  In fact, they repeat the same mistakes over and over again.  Fitz to McCown.  It's the definition of insanity.  It's literally the same exact strategy they deployed for the last 2 years and it blew up in their face in epic fashion...and here we are.

 

Starting McCown may give us the best chance to win, but who really gives a crap about watching McCown and a 4 or 5 win team?  That will set the franchise back 10 years because it will push potentially solving the only problem that matters in today's NFL at least another year into the future.

One, it doesn't tell us anything at we already don't know about Petty and Hack.  Two, it takes us out of the running for Darnold and probably Rosen.  Three, it leaves the only options for QB in 2018 in perhaps taking Josh Allen, a guy who probably won't be ready for a while and who currently has accuracy issues, or signing a vet scrub like Bortles for probably around $18M per.

The only reason to watch this team this year is to watch our young receivers and core defensive players and hope they build as a team while losing every game.  Will that be possible in the media environment we live in, who knows.

[HessStation]

If Mcgown wins more than a game the gauntlet will have been thrown.  Bolt your doors and hide the children friends. 

[thadude]

12 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

Mahomes' not starting this year and he wouldn't here either.  Watson has a chance to start in Texas.

Watson will start for the Texans 

[Ex-Rex]

21 hours ago, August said:

They need to beat out McCown. If they can't then they shouldn't start. 

Bowles will use the "experience" factor to give McCown the job even if Hack and Petty perform reasonably well. I certainly hope one of them does beat out McCown, but experience is a huge factor.

[Ex-Rex]

2 hours ago, flgreen said:

If McCown starts, I'll be doing a lot of fishing on Sundays this fall.

I already said that if McCown starts I am boycotting the game. I haven't missed a Jets game either in person or on TV in nearly 30 years, but I will deliberately miss the ones McCown starts. That is how badly I think the team needs to just go with one of the young guys and stick with him.

[August]

5 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

Bowles will use the "experience" factor to give McCown the job even if Hack and Petty perform reasonably well. I certainly hope one of them does beat out McCown, but experience is a huge factor.

Different circumstances. If they're even then the tie breaker goes to Petty or Hackenberg. 

[Dunnie]

It's not Todd Bowles' fault that Josh McCown is his best option. It's not Bowles' fault that Petty sucks and Hack blows.

It's Mac's fault for making it that way.

Bowles is a good coach I dont' care what all the dummies say.  He's a former player, direct branch of the Parcells' coaching tree,  well respected around the league. This isn't a Herman situation. The guy has coaching skills. And unlike most of the good ole boys in the league, he's actually local which means he knows what it takes to live/succeed in this media marketplace.

In other words give Todd Bowles a legit QB he's John Fox.

 

He'll get the diamond of the draft next year.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Lupz27]

13 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

What other QB options were better for this team? Who did we miss out on? Bring in Cutler? Throw the big contract at Glennon and go all in? I just don't understand what QBs we missed out on to make this all better. 

Shoukd Paxton Lynch been our starting QB right now? Is that what it is? 

Pat Mahomes II, or 2 PM as they are calling him in KC.