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Villain The Foe

By Villain The Foe
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thadude

thadude

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Jet Life said:

FSU quarterbacks must suck too because of Ponder and Manuel. Nevermind , Winston looks pretty good . Big Ben won 2 rings so let's keep an eye on Miami of Ohio QBs this season 

This is the silliest thread ever

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56mehl56

56mehl56

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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I have no problem saying I believe in Darnold and think he's going to be the next stud QB in this league. Could he have a disappointing sophomore outing? Sure. But I'm all aboard the hype train.

It wasn't so long ago Lamar Jackson was a hotshot Freshman and all the rage on these forums . Funny thing happened DC's compiled game film on Jackson and he took a major plunge his Soph season . Watch last years bowl game against LSU for evidence.

Now I'm not directly comparing Darnold to Jackson as they are two entirely different QB's. But remember Darnold didn't start the season last year so he was a bit of an unknown - he won't be this season - let's see how it plays out. 

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UntouchableCrew

UntouchableCrew

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It wasn't so long ago Lamar Jackson was a hotshot Freshman and all the rage on these forums . Funny thing happened DC's compiled game film on Jackson and he took a major plunge his Soph season . Watch last years bowl game against LSU for evidence.
Now I'm not directly comparing Darnold to Jackson as they are two entirely different QB's. But remember Darnold didn't start the season last year so he was a bit of an unknown - he won't be this season - let's see how it plays out. 


Lamar Jackson was never a real NFL prospect. There's no comparison.


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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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USC certainly hasnt produced a ton of super successful NFL QB's but they have produced starters who have won a lot of games in the NFL.  I dont think it's a deterrent from selecting a QB out of that college because nobody has ever hoisted a Lombardi.  There are only 5 programs in all of college Football who have produced multiple Super Bowl winning QB's:

Alabama: Namath, Starr, Stabler - nothing in recent history except garbage QB's in the pros. 

Notre Dame: Montana and Theisman - and then look at all the duds they've produced.

Purdue: Brees, Griese, Dawson - anyone looking at Purdue as a QB factory? 

Stanford: Elway and Plunkett - obviously Luck looks pretty good but they've had duds too. 

BYU - Young, McMahon - and lets be honest, McMahon had very little to do with the 85 Bears success.

If we're playing this game - then the only QB's worth selecting next season are Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson because Troy Aikman and Johnny Unitas. Otherwise, you've got big goose eggs from every other program producing a Super Bowl winning QB.  Or maybe you considered Nick Fitzgerald because of Dak Prescott? haha

And @Villain The Foe - if we're using this logic, you need to start changing your tune on Baker Mayfield.  Oklahoma has produced dog sh*t QB's, 100000x worse than USC, unless your into Sam Bradford. And overall, I think it's accurate when I say the Big 12 has never produced a franchise caliber QB, let alone a Super Bowl winning QB. 

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Paradis

Paradis

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No it's not true. I thought you were smarter than this.

Oh they're tanking for a QB, indeed. Who knows who that is yet... but get over the Sam angle already.


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Paradis

Paradis

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lol. You got me there! 
I'll say this, im pretty much just kicking up dust to numb that low feeling that is our Jets fandom right now. If Darnold capitalizes and has another awesome season I may consider it. USC just scares me though. That school has literally produced nothing at the QB position. Granted, Palmer is by far the best QB to come out of that school and he's had an up and down career himself. 
 
It is easy to see that the kid has talent though, no denying that. Nice work on the pic, looks like our offensive line is doing a real "bang up" job on the quarterback!


I love it when people who barely a year or two older than these QBs, call them kids.

Scout the player, not the jersey. While you're at it, watch Rosen, Falk, Allen, Jackson, and Rudolf too.

Still doesn't excuse cutting Decker and Harris


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56mehl56

56mehl56

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2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 


No, anyone who follows college football and the draft knows the difference.


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Go back and find some of the threads on here before Darnold became a hot prospect - it was all the Jets should tank in 2017/2018 for Jackson. Bottom line you might be saying the same thing about Darnold after this season though . After all he feasted on some pretty sh*tty PAC 12 defenses last year . I 'd love to see him play an SEC schedule.

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

USC certainly hasnt produced a ton of super successful NFL QB's but they have produced starters who have won a lot of games in the NFL.  I dont think it's a deterrent from selecting a QB out of that college because nobody has ever hoisted a Lombardi.  There are only 5 programs in all of college Football who have produced multiple Super Bowl winning QB's:

Alabama: Namath, Starr, Stabler - nothing in recent history except garbage QB's in the pros. 

Notre Dame: Montana and Theisman - and then look at all the duds they've produced.

Purdue: Brees, Griese, Dawson - anyone looking at Purdue as a QB factory? 

Stanford: Elway and Plunkett - obviously Luck looks pretty good but they've had duds too. 

BYU - Young, McMahon - and lets be honest, McMahon had very little to do with the 85 Bears success.

If we're playing this game - then the only QB's worth selecting next season are Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson because Troy Aikman and Johnny Unitas. Otherwise, you've got big goose eggs from every other program producing a Super Bowl winning QB.  Or maybe you considered Nick Fitzgerald because of Dak Prescott? haha

And @Villain The Foe - if we're using this logic, you need to start changing your tune on Baker Mayfield.  Oklahoma has produced dog sh*t QB's, 100000x worse than USC, unless your into Sam Bradford. And overall, I think it's accurate when I say the Big 12 has never produced a franchise caliber QB, let alone a Super Bowl winning QB. 

Generally you have a point, specifically Oklahoma QB's are not the rave every other season. Remember Sam Bradford? Well, that's about it from OU. Remember Matt Lienart, Remember Matt Barkley, Remember Mark Sanchez, Remember Sam Darnold? The last Sooner QB that was of that hype was Sam Bradford. My point is more about USC as a program and the hype surrounding their QB's coming out of College every couple years. Im not comparing Sam to other USC QB's but more to their lack of success once in the pros. So sure, Oklahoma may have produced dog sh*t multiple times as worse than at USC, but it's USC that's multiple times more often as having "the franchise QB", and end up being a waste. 

 

But like I said, generally you have a point. Hopefully you understand specifically my position though. 

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EM31

EM31

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18 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

Similar to many discussions over the years...Winston or Mariota?  Leaf vs Manning?  Eli and Rivers?  Who knows who the eventual best player will be.  The questions in my mind...can the Jets FO identify the right one?  Will they be in a position to acquire the said "right one"?

Well if a Leaf Vs. Manning decision falls into our lap I have no doubt in my mind the direction that this franchise would take.

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kdels62

kdels62

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4 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't know if they are trying to tank it. (much to the delight of a few of our fans who love the draft over the NFL season). I was thinking based on how things have been going that it just might be the owner meddling again and forcing Mac to cut budget. One reason is Bowles not really knowing what's going on and Mac making these decisions late into the off season. He's cutting star players in June when it this was their direction they would do it before free agency. Rumor is that they could find a bidder for Decker who is an excellent receiver and we have little experience at that position. 

Harris and Decker are "star" players?

The money gets spent anyway. The NFL doesn't work like other leagues, you have to spend. It's better to spend on years that you can be good.

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rangerous

rangerous

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20 hours ago, C Mart said:

Woody already said he's on board with this plan. Performance won't be judged by wins/losses but how players play and if there's progress. 

like i said, it's all dependent on how good of a coach bowles is.  he's got his work cut out for himself.  i do agree that wins/losses isn't going to be the only way to judge this year's team.

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joewilly12

joewilly12

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Get to know the 3 stud QBs waiting on other side of Jets tank

June 8, 2017 | 12:15pm

 

Get to know the 3 stud QBs waiting on other side of Jets tank

USC's Sam Darnold, UCLA's Josh Rosen and Wyoming's Josh AllenAP (2); Getty Images (Rosen)

SEE ALSO

 

The NFL is viciously roasting the Jets, who have 'no plan'

 

By releasing defensive linchpin David Harris on Tuesday, and stating No. 1 wide receiver Eric Decker won’t be back with the team, the Jets essentially have decided they are willing to endure one historically awful season to finally find someone to fill Joe Namath’s spikes. (Unless 2017 is the Year of Christian Hackenberg, that is.)

With no realistic path to the playoffs – even with Harris and Decker – the Jets seem to be taking steps to ensure they won’t come close to last year’s five-win total, which would put them in position to land a potential franchise quarterback from among the strong crop available in the 2018 NFL Draft. That’s

Even if general manager Mike Maccagnan won’t admit it, the tank has begun.

Here’s a look at the quarterbacks who could be leading the Jets in just over a year, the players you should be watching on Saturdays as long as Sundays will be stripped of suspense:

Sam Darnold, redshirt sophomore, USC

Darnold didn’t even make his first career start until the Trojans’ fourth game last season, but he quickly became a star, leading a team that started 1-3 to nine straight wins to end the season. During that winning streak, Darnold had 2,833 yards passing and 31 touchdowns while completing nearly 70 percent of his passes, capped by his 453-yard, five-touchdown performance in the Rose Bowl.

Even with Louisville’s Lamar Jackson returning to school, Darnold is currently the Heisman favorite — and the most likely candidate to be the No. 1 pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.

Plus: The 6-foot-4, 225-pound quarterback has the size, arm strength and accuracy that all teams covet – and mobility as a runner as well. Teammates have touted his leadership at such a young age.

Minus: He has only started nine games. How will Darnold handle entering a season with enormous Heisman hype?

Josh Rosen, junior, UCLA

Rosen’s NFL prospects were being discussed before he even arrived on campus. Touted as a future star since high school, Rosen started for the Bruins as a true freshman, and showed the potential that makes scouts salivate. As a sophomore, Rosen only played six games, though, after undergoing surgery on his throwing shoulder, and finished the season with 1,915 passing yards, 10 touchdowns and five interceptions.

Plus: Rosen is a traditional pocket passer, built to run a pro-style offense. He has a great arm, and even greater confidence, exhibiting tremendous poise on the field. The spotlight will never be too bright for him.

Minus: Though Rosen is expected to be ready for the start of the season, he will need to prove his health isn’t an issue. According to reports, the California native also has struggled to get along with teammates at UCLA, and might not have the leadership skills to command an NFL locker room.

Josh Allen, junior, Wyoming

Well outside of Los Angeles resides the draft’s most intriguing prospect. Allen, a potential first-round pick if he entered the 2017 NFL Draft, decided to return to school, and could now become a top pick. Allen only threw six passes before suffering a season-ending collarbone injury as a freshman. Last season, as a sophomore, he threw five interceptions against Nebraska in his third career start, and finished the year throwing for a modest 3,203 yards, 28 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.

SEE ALSO

 

The most intriguing QB of next year's draft found his twisted guru

 

Plus: Allen, a 6-foot-5, 222-pound prospect, has already been compared to Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz. He has experience running a pro-style offense, and has the physical tools to succeed in the NFL, possessing a strong arm and the ability to fit a ball into any window.

Minus: Allen may end up being one of the most divisive prospects in the draft, capable of going boom or bust. His gunslinger mentality leads to inconsistency and turnovers, and he needs to demonstrate better decision-making. Allen also hasn’t seen many elite defenses in the Mountain West Conference, and finished with a 1-4 record to end last season after a 7-2 start.

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Mogglez

Mogglez

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Posted
39 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Get to know the 3 stud QBs waiting on other side of Jets tank

June 8, 2017 | 12:15pm

 

Get to know the 3 stud QBs waiting on other side of Jets tank

USC's Sam Darnold, UCLA's Josh Rosen and Wyoming's Josh AllenAP (2); Getty Images (Rosen)

SEE ALSO

 

The NFL is viciously roasting the Jets, who have 'no plan'

 

By releasing defensive linchpin David Harris on Tuesday, and stating No. 1 wide receiver Eric Decker won’t be back with the team, the Jets essentially have decided they are willing to endure one historically awful season to finally find someone to fill Joe Namath’s spikes. (Unless 2017 is the Year of Christian Hackenberg, that is.)

With no realistic path to the playoffs – even with Harris and Decker – the Jets seem to be taking steps to ensure they won’t come close to last year’s five-win total, which would put them in position to land a potential franchise quarterback from among the strong crop available in the 2018 NFL Draft. That’s

Even if general manager Mike Maccagnan won’t admit it, the tank has begun.

Here’s a look at the quarterbacks who could be leading the Jets in just over a year, the players you should be watching on Saturdays as long as Sundays will be stripped of suspense:

Sam Darnold, redshirt sophomore, USC

Darnold didn’t even make his first career start until the Trojans’ fourth game last season, but he quickly became a star, leading a team that started 1-3 to nine straight wins to end the season. During that winning streak, Darnold had 2,833 yards passing and 31 touchdowns while completing nearly 70 percent of his passes, capped by his 453-yard, five-touchdown performance in the Rose Bowl.

Even with Louisville’s Lamar Jackson returning to school, Darnold is currently the Heisman favorite — and the most likely candidate to be the No. 1 pick in the 2018 NFL Draft.

Plus: The 6-foot-4, 225-pound quarterback has the size, arm strength and accuracy that all teams covet – and mobility as a runner as well. Teammates have touted his leadership at such a young age.

Minus: He has only started nine games. How will Darnold handle entering a season with enormous Heisman hype?

Josh Rosen, junior, UCLA

Rosen’s NFL prospects were being discussed before he even arrived on campus. Touted as a future star since high school, Rosen started for the Bruins as a true freshman, and showed the potential that makes scouts salivate. As a sophomore, Rosen only played six games, though, after undergoing surgery on his throwing shoulder, and finished the season with 1,915 passing yards, 10 touchdowns and five interceptions.

Plus: Rosen is a traditional pocket passer, built to run a pro-style offense. He has a great arm, and even greater confidence, exhibiting tremendous poise on the field. The spotlight will never be too bright for him.

Minus: Though Rosen is expected to be ready for the start of the season, he will need to prove his health isn’t an issue. According to reports, the California native also has struggled to get along with teammates at UCLA, and might not have the leadership skills to command an NFL locker room.

Josh Allen, junior, Wyoming

Well outside of Los Angeles resides the draft’s most intriguing prospect. Allen, a potential first-round pick if he entered the 2017 NFL Draft, decided to return to school, and could now become a top pick. Allen only threw six passes before suffering a season-ending collarbone injury as a freshman. Last season, as a sophomore, he threw five interceptions against Nebraska in his third career start, and finished the year throwing for a modest 3,203 yards, 28 touchdowns and 15 interceptions.

SEE ALSO

 

The most intriguing QB of next year's draft found his twisted guru

 

Plus: Allen, a 6-foot-5, 222-pound prospect, has already been compared to Eagles quarterback Carson Wentz. He has experience running a pro-style offense, and has the physical tools to succeed in the NFL, possessing a strong arm and the ability to fit a ball into any window.

Minus: Allen may end up being one of the most divisive prospects in the draft, capable of going boom or bust. His gunslinger mentality leads to inconsistency and turnovers, and he needs to demonstrate better decision-making. Allen also hasn’t seen many elite defenses in the Mountain West Conference, and finished with a 1-4 record to end last season after a 7-2 start.

Josh Allen is Ryan Tannehill and Mason Rudolph is Wilson/Cousins (as in: the "true" #3 QB in this class).  Unless Allen has a monster year of growth with a 60%+ and a reasonable W/L, I don't want him.  Wentz had everything.  Size, great feet and mechanics, arm strength, accuracy, intangibles, athletic, smart, and won.  Only concern was level of competition but the fact that he was dominant where he played and that bigger schools did actually recruit him but wanted him to drop baseball (a no-no to him) calmed people on those worries.

If you want a more recent comp, he's a rich man's Paxton Lynch as of right now.

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C Mart

C Mart

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32 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Josh Allen is Ryan Tannehill and Mason Rudolph is Wilson/Cousins (as in: the "true" #3 QB in this class).  Unless Allen has a monster year of growth with a 60%+ and a reasonable W/L, I don't want him.  Wentz had everything.  Size, great feet and mechanics, arm strength, accuracy, intangibles, athletic, smart, and won.  Only concern was level of competition but the fact that he was dominant where he played and that bigger schools did actually recruit him but wanted him to drop baseball (a no-no to him) calmed people on those worries.

If you want a more recent comp, he's a rich man's Paxton Lynch as of right now.

Disclaimer:  I haven't seen them play so just going on that article. Is there a big difference between Allen & Hackenberg? And at least Hackenberg played against better competition. 

Rosen sounds like he needs to grow up and fast. I'm leery. 

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Lupz27

Lupz27

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6 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Disclaimer:  I haven't seen them play so just going on that article. Is there a big difference between Allen & Hackenberg? And at least Hackenberg played against better competition. 

Rosen sounds like he needs to grow up and fast. I'm leery. 

Its Darnold, or bust IMO!

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Tinstar

Tinstar

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31 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Disclaimer:  I haven't seen them play so just going on that article. Is there a big difference between Allen & Hackenberg? And at least Hackenberg played against better competition. 

Rosen sounds like he needs to grow up and fast. I'm leery. 

Does this reminds you of the decision between Peyton Manning and Ryan Leaf ?

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Tinstar

Tinstar

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6 hours ago, EM31 said:

Well if a Leaf Vs. Manning decision falls into our lap I have no doubt in my mind the direction that this franchise would take.

I would take Leaf this time . I have a feeling that this Darnold kid is going to be a lot like Manning physically but not mentally . I think his arm strength is about the same, but his athletic ability will be a substitute for the Manning football knowledge

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Tinstar

Tinstar

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3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Just going off the article

Darnold = Manning

vs

Rosen = Leaf (personality, leadership concerns)

This is going to be a huge year for Rosen who I think is a better fit for the north East weather conditions .

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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19 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Generally you have a point, specifically Oklahoma QB's are not the rave every other season. Remember Sam Bradford? Well, that's about it from OU. Remember Matt Lienart, Remember Matt Barkley, Remember Mark Sanchez, Remember Sam Darnold? The last Sooner QB that was of that hype was Sam Bradford. My point is more about USC as a program and the hype surrounding their QB's coming out of College every couple years. Im not comparing Sam to other USC QB's but more to their lack of success once in the pros. So sure, Oklahoma may have produced dog sh*t multiple times as worse than at USC, but it's USC that's multiple times more often as having "the franchise QB", and end up being a waste. 

 

But like I said, generally you have a point. Hopefully you understand specifically my position though. 

Sure, I get your point.  USC has produced more NFL QB's than Oklahoma, therefore, have a higher bust rate.  I get it.  That said both schools have produced a #1 overall pick. Bradford and Palmer.  I think Palmer has had twice the career.  So, yes, USC has a higher bust rate among their QB's drafted but that's because they actually produce NFL QB's unlike Oklahoma. 

I guess the real question is, whats worse?  Coming from a program that has produced nothing outside of Bradford or coming from a program that has produced a bunch of QB's who bust or not, have played a lot of Football in the NFL - Palmer, Sanchez and Cassell have all been to the playoffs...Oklahoma cant say that, unless you credit Landry Jones filling in for Big Ben when he got injured 2 years ago.  lol

For my dollar, I'd be more comfortable with someone from USC. 

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Jets Voice of Reason

Jets Voice of Reason

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7 minutes ago, JiF said:

Sure, I get your point.  USC has produced more NFL QB's than Oklahoma, therefore, have a higher bust rate.  I get it.  That said both schools have produced a #1 overall pick. Bradford and Palmer.  I think Palmer has had twice the career.  So, yes, USC has a higher bust rate among their QB's drafted but that's because they actually produce NFL QB's unlike Oklahoma. 

I guess the real question is, whats worse?  Coming from a program that has produced nothing outside of Bradford or coming from a program that has produced a bunch of QB's who bust or not, have played a lot of Football in the NFL - Palmer, Sanchez and Cassell have all been to the playoffs...Oklahoma cant say that, unless you credit Landry Jones filling in for Big Ben when he got injured 2 years ago.  lol

For my dollar, I'd be more comfortable with someone from USC. 

School production and stats can be definitely misleading (Baylor, Texas Tech,  USC, etc) with offensive systems and talent disparity, but there isn't exactly a qb factory for schools. The position itself just has too high of a bust rate. just look at the top NFL qbs, they pretty much all went to different schools. 

Saying no to Darnold because purely because you don't like USC qbs is more or less the reason aaron rodgers fell in the draft for CAL

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Villain The Foe

Villain The Foe

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5 hours ago, JiF said:

Sure, I get your point.  USC has produced more NFL QB's than Oklahoma, therefore, have a higher bust rate.  I get it.  That said both schools have produced a #1 overall pick. Bradford and Palmer.  I think Palmer has had twice the career.  So, yes, USC has a higher bust rate among their QB's drafted but that's because they actually produce NFL QB's unlike Oklahoma. 

I guess the real question is, whats worse?  Coming from a program that has produced nothing outside of Bradford or coming from a program that has produced a bunch of QB's who bust or not, have played a lot of Football in the NFL - Palmer, Sanchez and Cassell have all been to the playoffs...Oklahoma cant say that, unless you credit Landry Jones filling in for Big Ben when he got injured 2 years ago.  lol

For my dollar, I'd be more comfortable with someone from USC. 

Actually, that wasnt my point. lol. You can produce an NFL QB, that doesnt mean that those QB's must always be considered franchise QB's and worth top picks. You can produce NFL QB's and it not have to be packaged and sold as "the guy". Every time that has happened it ended up being false, even with Palmer to an extent. 

 

My point isnt about because one school produces more than another it has a higher bust rate, its about a USC quarterback every few years being talked up as "the one" and it has never come about. 

Also, talking about QB's who been to the playoffs is a convenient argument to make. When it's time to support a position we can talk about Sanchez making the playoffs, but when we talk about Mark Sanchez "the Quarterback" Jets fans are the first to talk about how he was carried to the playoffs twice. 

That cant work. 

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Jet Life

Jet Life

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6 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

School production and stats can be definitely misleading (Baylor, Texas Tech,  USC, etc) with offensive systems and talent disparity, but there isn't exactly a qb factory for schools. The position itself just has too high of a bust rate. just look at the top NFL qbs, they pretty much all went to different schools. 

Saying no to Darnold because purely because you don't like USC qbs is more or less the reason aaron rodgers fell in the draft for CAL

Yup, QB is a high bust position. There are maybe 10 good ones in the NFL and 10 get drafted every year, most likely all being busts. Stupid to look at a handful of bad QBs and say the entire school will never have a good QB again

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