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Why are Darnold & Rosen givens?

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They aren't.

Darnold has not had a good statistical year. Some point to the lack of help around him, but if he goes to the NFL whether it be for the Browns or Giants, he will also have little help around him.

The one worry I have about Rosen is that he has missed a couple of games this year with minor injuries. His durability worries me because you want a franchise QB to last

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15 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I keep seeing Jet fans posting, "we have to move up or we'll miss out on our franchise QB". When the hell has it ever been a given that a college QB is a sure fire franchise QB? Payton & Eli Manning maybe, based on the genetic trail from Archie.  

Nobody is saying their sure thing franchise guy. Of course they can fall flat on their face. I think the point is we're tired of settling for the 3rd or 4th best guy in the draft. Rather have what's considered the most talented QB in the draft and work with that then to hope the 3rd or 4th hits. Jets have not been lucky, so we're hoping to limit that as much as possible by taking the best guy. 

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OT, People compare Josh Allen to Hackenberg based on type which is valid.

The big difference I see is that many people had HAckenberg not being drafted at all while Josh Allen has been slated to go 1st or 2nd round.

SO what is the difference between them?

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3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

OT, People compare Josh Allen to Hackenberg based on type which is valid.

The big difference I see is that many people had HAckenberg not being drafted at all while Josh Allen has been slated to go 1st or 2nd round.

SO what is the difference between them?

Wow a good point from uwf

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Just now, HighPitch said:

Wow a good point from uwf

I cant take credit. Others have brought this up before me, yet there really hasn't been an answer. Obviously, Allen must have something else going for him, something more than Hackenberg had

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26 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I keep seeing Jet fans posting, "we have to move up or we'll miss out on our franchise QB". When the hell has it ever been a given that a college QB is a sure fire franchise QB? Payton & Eli Manning maybe, based on the genetic trail from Archie. 

So everyone's positive that if the Jets are picking between 12-15 there is no way a QB will be there worthy of the pick. It's ridiculous. By time the draft rolls around everyone of these guys will be dissected and holes will be found in their games, their arms, their brains, their feet, their health, my god after everyone dismissed what Deshaun Watson did winning two championships beating Alabama twice coached by Nick Saban, it was believed by most that 49 mph throws just don't cut it in the NFL (Joe Montana probably had a 45 mph arm but I font even think they tested that sh*t back in the day). According to this board 7 QBs will probably be taken in the 1st ten picks, lol. You hope you get Aaron Rogers (pick 24) instead of Alex Smith (#1 overall) in 2005. You hope you get Russell Wilson (75), instead of RG111 (#2), getting Russell @ 75 has actually turned out better for the Seahawks than the Colts getting Luck @ #1, or Tannyhill @ 8, but according to the poster here 2018 will be the draft when every organization gets it right! No mistakes in 2018 by golly. Everyone's learned from the past drafts & because there is SO MUCH information if your not picking one or two? Fuggetaboutit! 

I've been enjoying Warfish take on this whole thing. It is what it is, no one knows who will be great, who will suck, who will succeed, who will fail, who will have a career ending injury. We'll pick where we pick & we might get lucky and we might not. It's the reason I'm interested in Cousins if possible, at least he's a known commodity. Money? What the hell of I care? It's not my money. If they don't spend it it's not like Woody will reduce the price of a beer at Metlife. Maybe we can let Kirk sell Kirk Cola @ Metlife like Brady does at Gillette? Plenty of ways to skin a cat or cheat the salary cap, we just have to model this franchise more like the Pats.

So you guys keep giving me the list of future franchise QBs & pro bowlers at each position in this upcoming draft and I'll make notes and see how it all ends up 2 years from now. In the meantime I'll just imagine that what will most likely happen is we find another veteran for Bowles because there ain't no way in hell, if he's the head coach of the NYJ that a rookie QB is under center in 2018. Bank on that. So good luck with your prognostications, write them down in indelible ink & we'll tear them apart a few years from now. 

totally agree.  and even if the jets do want darnold or rosen all they have to do is make the deal.  that's the tricky part.  and just like blowing a ton of money on a free agent qb, using a ton of draft choices to move up is equally foolish.

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32 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I keep seeing Jet fans posting, "we have to move up or we'll miss out on our franchise QB". When the hell has it ever been a given that a college QB is a sure fire franchise QB? Payton & Eli Manning maybe, based on the genetic trail from Archie. 

So everyone's positive that if the Jets are picking between 12-15 there is no way a QB will be there worthy of the pick. It's ridiculous. By time the draft rolls around everyone of these guys will be dissected and holes will be found in their games, their arms, their brains, their feet, their health, my god after everyone dismissed what Deshaun Watson did winning two championships beating Alabama twice coached by Nick Saban, it was believed by most that 49 mph throws just don't cut it in the NFL (Joe Montana probably had a 45 mph arm but I font even think they tested that sh*t back in the day). According to this board 7 QBs will probably be taken in the 1st ten picks, lol. You hope you get Aaron Rogers (pick 24) instead of Alex Smith (#1 overall) in 2005. You hope you get Russell Wilson (75), instead of RG111 (#2), getting Russell @ 75 has actually turned out better for the Seahawks than the Colts getting Luck @ #1, or Tannyhill @ 8, but according to the poster here 2018 will be the draft when every organization gets it right! No mistakes in 2018 by golly. Everyone's learned from the past drafts & because there is SO MUCH information if your not picking one or two? Fuggetaboutit! 

I've been enjoying Warfish take on this whole thing. It is what it is, no one knows who will be great, who will suck, who will succeed, who will fail, who will have a career ending injury. We'll pick where we pick & we might get lucky and we might not. It's the reason I'm interested in Cousins if possible, at least he's a known commodity. Money? What the hell of I care? It's not my money. If they don't spend it it's not like Woody will reduce the price of a beer at Metlife. Maybe we can let Kirk sell Kirk Cola @ Metlife like Brady does at Gillette? Plenty of ways to skin a cat or cheat the salary cap, we just have to model this franchise more like the Pats.

So you guys keep giving me the list of future franchise QBs & pro bowlers at each position in this upcoming draft and I'll make notes and see how it all ends up 2 years from now. In the meantime I'll just imagine that what will most likely happen is we find another veteran for Bowles because there ain't no way in hell, if he's the head coach of the NYJ that a rookie QB is under center in 2018. Bank on that. So good luck with your prognostications, write them down in indelible ink & we'll tear them apart a few years from now. 

Monty Hall would love Jets fans. Jets fans are always willing to trade for what is behind door #2. Because door #2 represents something that possibly, may be, far greater than something they have now. Even though there are no guarantees given with that panel slide, it is exciting and it sure beats what they have now. Because, because, it has to. 

Jets fans believe in Jack and the Beanstalk. Because beans can grow into something great. And it represents a shortcut to building your way to the sky. Even though the odds of just any bean climbing to the clouds are minute. 

Dreamers, we are dreamers.

 

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14 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

OT, People compare Josh Allen to Hackenberg based on type which is valid.

The big difference I see is that many people had HAckenberg not being drafted at all while Josh Allen has been slated to go 1st or 2nd round.

SO what is the difference between them?

Allen is worse.

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5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

OT, People compare Josh Allen to Hackenberg based on type which is valid.

The big difference I see is that many people had HAckenberg not being drafted at all while Josh Allen has been slated to go 1st or 2nd round.

SO what is the difference between them?

This is the sh*t I can't understand. Do you know what I do understand? I understand that Bill Obrien took f*cking Nick Martin a god damn center over the QB that he coached at Penn State! Now if anything tells Mac that Hackenberg isn't worth a 2nd rounder, that would pretty much seal it? By the way, did anyone see the plays Deion Jones was making last night at LB? Yea, he was picked right after can't Hackit. 

I will give that to Maccs critics on this site. Why would you take a QB a coach who comes from the Belichick tree that coached him in college passes on? Weird.

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Just now, Jetster said:

This is the sh*t I can't understand. Do you know what I do understand? I understand that Bill Obrien took f*cking Nick Martin a god damn center over the QB that he coached at Penn State! Now if anything tells Mac that Hackenberg isn't worth a 2nd rounder, that would pretty much seal it? By the way, did anyone see the plays Deion Jones was making last night at LB? Yea, he was picked right after can't Hackit. 

I will give that to Maccs critics on this site. Why would you take a QB a coach who comes from the Belichick tree that coached him in college passes on? Weird.

I completely agree. It was a horrible pick. 

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1 minute ago, dbatesman said:

Allen is worse.

So why are draft people saying he can be drafted 1st or 2nd round and they weren't projecting Hackenberg at all?

I know you believe all draft people are fools, but what is fooling them?

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40 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I keep seeing Jet fans posting, "we have to move up or we'll miss out on our franchise QB". When the hell has it ever been a given that a college QB is a sure fire franchise QB? Payton & Eli Manning maybe, based on the genetic trail from Archie. 

So everyone's positive that if the Jets are picking between 12-15 there is no way a QB will be there worthy of the pick. It's ridiculous. By time the draft rolls around everyone of these guys will be dissected and holes will be found in their games, their arms, their brains, their feet, their health, my god after everyone dismissed what Deshaun Watson did winning two championships beating Alabama twice coached by Nick Saban, it was believed by most that 49 mph throws just don't cut it in the NFL (Joe Montana probably had a 45 mph arm but I font even think they tested that sh*t back in the day). According to this board 7 QBs will probably be taken in the 1st ten picks, lol. You hope you get Aaron Rogers (pick 24) instead of Alex Smith (#1 overall) in 2005. You hope you get Russell Wilson (75), instead of RG111 (#2), getting Russell @ 75 has actually turned out better for the Seahawks than the Colts getting Luck @ #1, or Tannyhill @ 8, but according to the poster here 2018 will be the draft when every organization gets it right! No mistakes in 2018 by golly. Everyone's learned from the past drafts & because there is SO MUCH information if your not picking one or two? Fuggetaboutit! 

I've been enjoying Warfish take on this whole thing. It is what it is, no one knows who will be great, who will suck, who will succeed, who will fail, who will have a career ending injury. We'll pick where we pick & we might get lucky and we might not. It's the reason I'm interested in Cousins if possible, at least he's a known commodity. Money? What the hell of I care? It's not my money. If they don't spend it it's not like Woody will reduce the price of a beer at Metlife. Maybe we can let Kirk sell Kirk Cola @ Metlife like Brady does at Gillette? Plenty of ways to skin a cat or cheat the salary cap, we just have to model this franchise more like the Pats.

So you guys keep giving me the list of future franchise QBs & pro bowlers at each position in this upcoming draft and I'll make notes and see how it all ends up 2 years from now. In the meantime I'll just imagine that what will most likely happen is we find another veteran for Bowles because there ain't no way in hell, if he's the head coach of the NYJ that a rookie QB is under center in 2018. Bank on that. So good luck with your prognostications, write them down in indelible ink & we'll tear them apart a few years from now. 

They will be stars because we can’t reach them. Just the way it is 🙉

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Yeah I also like the old just put 10 QB names in a hat and pick one out because one might be a Tom Brady and one might be Jamarcus Russell.

Quick someone fax this gem to MacCagnan!

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12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So why are draft people saying he can be drafted 1st or 2nd round and they weren't projecting Hackenberg at all?

I know you believe all draft people are fools, but what is fooling them?

He’s tall and athletic and has a strong arm.

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16 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Monty Hall would love Jets fans. Jets fans are always willing to trade for what is behind door #2. Because door #2 represents something that possibly, may be, far greater than something they have now. Even though there are no guarantees given with that panel slide, it is exciting and it sure beats what they have now. Because, because, it has to. 

Jets fans believe in Jack and the Beanstalk. Because beans can grow into something great. And it represents a shortcut to building your way to the sky. Even though the odds of just any bean climbing to the clouds are minute. 

Dreamers, we are dreamers.

 

You got that right. Same guys that were bashing Macc for Mo & than PAC posts a thread with all of them crowning the achievement of Mo signed long term,lol. Revisionist historians who can all do better, never are wrong, already know who the best QBs coming out in 2018 will be in the NFL but don't realize that a monkey throwing darts might hit on the next Tom Brady.

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12 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

OT, People compare Josh Allen to Hackenberg based on type which is valid.

The big difference I see is that many people had HAckenberg not being drafted at all while Josh Allen has been slated to go 1st or 2nd round.

SO what is the difference between them?

Allen is a much  better athlete than Hack was/is. Allen, like Hack, has ZERO help this year. His team is awful so it's tough to evaluate him. Allen seems like the perfect guy for a team like the Giants/Ravens to draft and develop behind Vets on their way out. He has all the tools, but obviously tougher to project his success when he struggled this year. 

Baker Mayfield has FAR more success but in the big 12 we have seen guys like Landry Jones/Mccoy/Chase Daniel/Klingsbury/RG3/Weeden/Petty/Weeden look amazing slinging the ball all over the field only to have zero NFL careers. Fans, especially on this board, obssess over stats and wins in college, but that is a very superficial way of evaluating QBs.

At this point, I would take any of these guys and take my chances, but my pecking Order (for now) is still 

1- Darnold- The next Aaron Rodgers

2- Rosen- Injury history and dedication issues. But has the best arm

3- Mayfield- A mix between Brees/Flutie/Manziel. 

4- Allen- Upside is Wentz, downside is Hack- 

5- Lamar Jackson- Poor man's Vick

Then you  have guys like Mason Rudolph/Lock/Falk/

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54 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I keep seeing Jet fans posting, "we have to move up or we'll miss out on our franchise QB". When the hell has it ever been a given that a college QB is a sure fire franchise QB? Payton & Eli Manning maybe, based on the genetic trail from Archie. 

So everyone's positive that if the Jets are picking between 12-15 there is no way a QB will be there worthy of the pick. It's ridiculous. By time the draft rolls around everyone of these guys will be dissected and holes will be found in their games, their arms, their brains, their feet, their health, my god after everyone dismissed what Deshaun Watson did winning two championships beating Alabama twice coached by Nick Saban, it was believed by most that 49 mph throws just don't cut it in the NFL (Joe Montana probably had a 45 mph arm but I font even think they tested that sh*t back in the day). According to this board 7 QBs will probably be taken in the 1st ten picks, lol. You hope you get Aaron Rogers (pick 24) instead of Alex Smith (#1 overall) in 2005. You hope you get Russell Wilson (75), instead of RG111 (#2), getting Russell @ 75 has actually turned out better for the Seahawks than the Colts getting Luck @ #1, or Tannyhill @ 8, but according to the poster here 2018 will be the draft when every organization gets it right! No mistakes in 2018 by golly. Everyone's learned from the past drafts & because there is SO MUCH information if your not picking one or two? Fuggetaboutit! 

I've been enjoying Warfish take on this whole thing. It is what it is, no one knows who will be great, who will suck, who will succeed, who will fail, who will have a career ending injury. We'll pick where we pick & we might get lucky and we might not. It's the reason I'm interested in Cousins if possible, at least he's a known commodity. Money? What the hell of I care? It's not my money. If they don't spend it it's not like Woody will reduce the price of a beer at Metlife. Maybe we can let Kirk sell Kirk Cola @ Metlife like Brady does at Gillette? Plenty of ways to skin a cat or cheat the salary cap, we just have to model this franchise more like the Pats.

So you guys keep giving me the list of future franchise QBs & pro bowlers at each position in this upcoming draft and I'll make notes and see how it all ends up 2 years from now. In the meantime I'll just imagine that what will most likely happen is we find another veteran for Bowles because there ain't no way in hell, if he's the head coach of the NYJ that a rookie QB is under center in 2018. Bank on that. So good luck with your prognostications, write them down in indelible ink & we'll tear them apart a few years from now. 

So 2 years is now the official window on grading a player? lol

Nice rant. I expect us to overpay Cousins and win 7-8 games a year for 2-4 more years wasting what little talent is on the team currently. 

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3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Allen is a much  better athlete than Hack was/is. Allen, like Hack, has ZERO help this year. His team is awful so it's tough to evaluate him. Allen seems like the perfect guy for a team like the Giants/Ravens to draft and develop behind Vets on their way out. He has all the tools, but obviously tougher to project his success when he struggled this year. 

Baker Mayfield has FAR more success but in the big 12 we have seen guys like Landry Jones/Mccoy/Chase Daniel/Klingsbury/RG3/Weeden/Petty/Weeden look amazing slinging the ball all over the field only to have zero NFL careers. Fans, especially on this board, obssess over stats and wins in college, but that is a very superficial way of evaluating QBs.

At this point, I would take any of these guys and take my chances, but my pecking Order (for now) is still 

1- Darnold- The next Aaron Rodgers

2- Rosen- Injury history and dedication issues. But has the best arm

3- Mayfield- A mix between Brees/Flutie/Manziel. 

4- Allen- Upside is Wentz, downside is Hack- 

5- Lamar Jackson- Poor man's Vick

Then you  have guys like Mason Rudolph/Lock/Falk/

I would damn sure take a poor mans Vick in this new sucky NFL! On NFL Sirius radio they were talking about how guys with these fines being handed out are starting to say, "I ain't losing no game check" when it comes to late hits or nailing guys on the sideline. 

Just watch how easy it is now for Cam on those stupid QB, keep, fakes. He beat us with it. Imagine Lamar doing that sh*t with his speed. Jackson has gotten better at being a QB every year. I would not be against it at all if he fell to us. He'd be like a much better Kordell Stewart. 

Could you imagine Michael Vick playing in this new NFL? He dominated when you were still allowed to kill the QB, jump on a pile, spear, drag guys down from behind, you can't do any of that sh*t anymore. You could dive at his legs in the pocket too. This might be the perfect time to take a guy like Jackson. Teach him EVERYTHING you can get away with. Fake going out of bounds & then cut back in & take it to the house, lol. 

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4 minutes ago, Stark said:

So 2 years is now the official window on grading a player? lol

Nice rant. I expect us to overpay Cousins and win 7-8 games a year for 2-4 more years wasting what little talent is on the team currently. 

Thanks for letting us know. We'll make a note of it.

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9 minutes ago, Stark said:

So 2 years is now the official window on grading a player? lol

Nice rant. I expect us to overpay Cousins and win 7-8 games a year for 2-4 more years wasting what little talent is on the team currently. 

You think Jet fans would give a QB more than 2 years after being drafted before they evaluate him on whether he's good or sucks? Where have you been the last 48 years?

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32 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Yeah I also like the old just put 10 QB names in a hat and pick one out because one might be a Tom Brady and one might be Jamarcus Russell.

Quick someone fax this gem to MacCagnan!

Didn't Russell go #1? Can't miss mo f*cker from what I remember. Big, strong arm, gonna change the game! I remember that.

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Because no one trusts Macc to nail a QB pick outside of the top 5.  Sure, any of the top QB prospects can bust.  But if you remove them from the board, Macc is pretty close to a sure bet to mess up the pick. 

Want evidence of that?  Our QB's since Macc arrived have been Bryce Petty, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Christian Hackenberg and Josh McCown.  Does that inspire confidence that Macc will unearth a hidden gem?

It's the difference between having a chance (even a small one) at a franchise QB as opposed to having pretty much no chance.  

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7 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Didn't Russell go #1? Can't miss mo f*cker from what I remember. Big, strong arm, gonna change the game! I remember that.

I'd rather a GM go balls to the wall for the consensus # 1 guy than pussyfoot around and take a guy who couldn't complete passes at a 60 % rate in college in the 2nd round.  

Hell, at least Tannenbaum got the # 2/3 prospect (Sanchez) and Idzik got the # 1/2 (Geno Smith) in those classes, the latter having put up good numbers his Senior season.  Can't really fault those picks much, because at least the process for taking them made some logical sense.  Though of course the fact that Sanchez had only started 1 year and Pete Carroll saying he wasn't ready should have thrown up some red flags, of course.  

JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf, meanwhile, were better picks than Christian Hackenberg.  The Hackenberg pick demonstrated Maccagnan had no clue.

Yet here you are, putting your trust in Macc to find us a franchise QB with a non-Top 10 pick.  It's not happening, and it's a big reason why so many here wanted the team to tank.  

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41 minutes ago, Jetster said:

You got that right. Same guys that were bashing Macc for Mo & than PAC posts a thread with all of them crowning the achievement of Mo signed long term,lol. Revisionist historians who can all do better, never are wrong, already know who the best QBs coming out in 2018 will be in the NFL but don't realize that a monkey throwing darts might hit on the next Tom Brady.

How do we get in contact with this dart throwing monkey 

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