Josh Allen Hype Train Rolls on With Mayock’s QB Rankings

[JetNation]

As the NFL draft draws nearer, the continuous flow of mock drafts and prospect analysis is only likely to intensify as fans and experts alike, line up to have their opinions heard.  At this point in time, it seems no single player has a wider ranging set of opinions than Wyoming quarterback Josh Allen.

Tossed aside by countless fans due to his paltry 56% completion percentage during his time in Wyoming, professional (and some of the  most respected) analysts continue to speak of Allen as one of the top prospects in this class based on a skill set that few NFL quarterbacks can rival.

You can now add NFL network’s Mike Mayock to the list of those who see huge upside in taking a 6′ 4” quarterback with excellent mobility and arm strength that would rival any current NFL quarterback.  It’s that skill set that landed Allen in the number two spot among QB’s behind USC’s Sam Darnold in Mayock’s eyes.

Despite the naysayers, here’s where some other prominent draftniks have Allen going in their mock drafts.

Mel Kiper, ESPN- #1 overall pick to Cleveland

Todd McShay, ESPN- #6 overall to the Jets

Matt Miller, Bleacher Report- #5 overall to Denver

Pete Prisco, CBS Sports- #1 overall pick to Cleveland

Charlie Campbell, Walter Football- #6 overall to the Jets

One interesting note on the Allen forecasts is that several observers putting together their own mock drafts at NFL.com have him going well after sixth overall.  Do they have some inside info that the “outsiders” don’t?  In fact, outside of Lance Zierlien and Chad Reuter, who both have Allen going to the Jets at six, no other mock has him going before the 11th pick (Daniel Jeremiah) with Charlie Casserly tabbing him as late as fifteenth to the Arizona Cardinals.

In looking at a total of ten mock drafts, no team is projected to take Allen more frequently than the Jets, who show up four times as the big QB’s destination.

Hmmm…

 

 

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[Mackman55]

Meanwhile another data point in the Allen evaluation. Poor accuracy and decision making......third day prospect. Interesting.

[T0mShane]

If Josh Allen is 6’2”, he’s undraftable. 

 

Discuss. 

[prime21]

Scouts and evaluators really like the kid but of course many Jet fans don’t, what else is new?  If we don’t sign Cousins and Allen is the only QB available from the top 4 then we must take him.  

[Doggin94it]

The more I see Allen being talked up as the no. 1 or 2 QB prospect in this draft, the happier I am.  Please let him be gone before we pick

[NoBowles]

Can we be honest here, none of us knows jack sh*t, despite our self proclaimed expertise

[ChuckkieB]

If Allen does actually go #1, the pressure will be on Mac to trade into the #3 or 4 slot to grab either Darnold or Rosen, assuming that he hasn't already blown his load on Cousins (figuratively speaking).

[SouthernJet]

I want Couisns but if that falls thru I want the best Progression Reader and Pocket prescence QB in draft.

[sourceworx]

4 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

If Allen does actually go #1, the pressure will be on Mac to trade into the #3 or 4 slot to grab either Darnold or Rosen, assuming that he hasn't already blown his load on Cousins (figuratively speaking).

Agreed, but only if it is for Rosen.

Darnold isn't worth it. If he falls to us at 6, then fine. Take a chance on him. To me he's just as risky a pick as Allen is. 

That said, my gut feeling is that Cousins is going to be a Jet. 

[Stark]

2 hours ago, Mackman55 said:

Meanwhile another data point in the Allen evaluation. Poor accuracy and decision making......third day prospect. Interesting.

I was going to post this in the "draft forum - Josh Allen Thread" the 1:43 second mark, 2:39 mark, 3:49 mark say all you need to know. Most of us have said to stay away from him, just off of watching him. 

The data this guy puts out on the players is very interesting and whether or not you like the guys youtube channel he is basically just using 70 years of football stats and comparing players to the average over that time. 

His channel is kind of interesting, but the videos are a little long, you can just move through the time line to see the stats and where the players project. 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If Josh Allen is 6’2”, he’s undraftable. 

 

Discuss. 

Big Mac would take him in the 2nd.

[JustInFudge]

Prediction time: Post combine Mayock top 5 for QB's:

Darnold

Rosen

Allen

Rudolph

Jackson

 

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

If Allen does actually go #1, the pressure will be on Mac to trade into the #3 or 4 slot to grab either Darnold or Rosen, assuming that he hasn't already blown his load on Cousins (figuratively speaking).

....chills all feelsy just thinking if it ever went Allen, Nelson, Barkley....?

 

js, nobody ever knows...

[Long Island Leprechaun]

44 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Can we be honest here, none of us knows jack sh*t, despite our self proclaimed expertise

Pretty much correct. Two points:

1. To me, the more interesting question is why Mayock has Rosen third behind Allen. What is driving that assessment of Rosen?

2. If Allen is indeed in the top five discussion, one would have to conclude that NONE of the top five is a world-beater, even Darnold. The case for poor decision making can be laid at Darnold's feet as well as any of the top five. Not to mention a very small body of work (27 games -- Rosen has 30, while guys like Mayfield and Rudolph are in the mid to high 40's) Have to consider convergence to the mean as QB's play more games. The more tape prospects give you the more there will be to criticize.

[Warfish]

57 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Can we be honest here, none of us knows jack sh*t, despite our self proclaimed expertise

We know what we see, and most of us have been religiously watching Pro football for going on 30-40 years.

We know what football is about.  Quite a few of us played, high school, college too.

And we know what we read, statistics are cold, hard and clear if one has the intelligence to analyze them properly.  And a goodly portion of us here are intelligent, University educated people.

And we're as well read as a group as any, we read everyone on football and talent eval.  We read more than any talking head does, be assured.

Be assured, we know as much as any ex-player talking head or general purpose talking head on ESPN.  If you think they study as hard as some of us study, you're fooling yourself.  Most of them are there because they look and sound good on TV, not because of their amazing insight or their spartan-like work ethic doing research.  

 

[Stark]

9 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Pretty much correct. Two points:

1. To me, the more interesting question is why Mayock has Rosen third behind Allen. What is driving that assessment of Rosen?

2. If Allen is indeed in the top five discussion, one would have to conclude that NONE of the top five is a world-beater, even Darnold. The case for poor decision making can be laid at Darnold's feet as well as any of the top five. Not to mention a very small body of work (27 games -- Rosen has 30, while guys like Mayfield and Rudolph are in the mid to high 40's) Have to consider convergence to the mean as QB's play more games. The more tape prospects give you the more there will be to criticize.

Scouts are going to hype up the physical measurables and play the "potential" card. There is the potential that Allen could be great, but how many of the "man, if this guy goes to the right coaching staff he could be great in a few years- he has all the tools...." actually ever pan out at QB. . . . 

My guess on Rosen is also the "well, he has to answer questions about his character and his desire to really play football". Rosen is hands down the best pure passing QB prospect in the draft. Best footwork, strong accurate arm, intelligent, played under center.... the knocks on him are kind of knit picky, yes he had 2 concussions and his shoulder - but the should looked fine this year and he was still able to hit receivers accurately with great placement on 50+yd throws.

 

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, prime21 said:

Scouts and evaluators really like the kid but of course many Jet fans don’t, what else is new?  If we don’t sign Cousins and Allen is the only QB available from the top 4 then we must take him.  

Were quite a few jets fans right about hackenburg?  Yes.

Does Allen appear to have similar qualities as Hack?  Yes.

Pretty easy to see why jets fans would not value this guy as high as others.

[nycdan]

14 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We know what we see, and most of us have been religiously watching Pro football for going on 30-40 years.

We know what football is about.  Quite a few of us played, high school, college too.

And we know what we read, statistics are cold, hard and clear if one has the intelligence to analyze them properly.  And a goodly portion of us here are intelligent, University educated people.

And we're as well read as a group as any, we read everyone on football and talent eval.  We read more than any talking head does, be assured.

Be assured, we know as much as any ex-player talking head or general purpose talking head on ESPN.  If you think they study as hard as some of us study, you're fooling yourself.  Most of them are there because they look and sound good on TV, not because of their amazing insight or their spartan-like work ethic doing research.  

 

My .02

I think the point (whether it was the prior poster's intent or not) should be that none of us 'know' anything.  We all have opinions based on what we have seen, what we have read, and our instincts and biases.  Some have very strong opinions.  Some are more informed than others but there is no magic 8-ball that anyone has that tells them with certainty who will boom and who will bust. 

Either we allow for the possibility that our strong opinions could be wrong or we don't.  Like I said in a previous post, when half of us think Cousins will be great and half think he will be ordinary, chances are pretty good that half of us are going to be right.  I love it when people make a point and back it up with reasons why, even if it just to say it's based on a gut feeling.  I don't respect the 'xxx is 100% going to suck' or 'xxx is the best yyy in the draft and anyone who disagrees is blind' kind of post.  I am not saying you, specifically, do that but this time of year, there is more than enough of that going around on all team forums.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

Can we be honest here, none of us knows jack sh*t, despite our self proclaimed expertise

Just like the situation of; you do not have to be the fastest runner when being chased by a bear, you just have to be faster than one person.

Over the years Jets fans in their evaluations have been faster than the Jets gm or coach more often than not.

[NoBowles]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Just like the situation of; you do not have to be the fastest runner when being chased by a bear, you just have to be faster than one person.

Over the years Jets fans in their evaluations have been faster than the Jets gm or coach more often than not.

Each of my children feel that their siblings get favorable treatment over the others. In fact, they each swear it to be true.

The reality is my children only remember the time when it suits their argument, and not the other way around.

Jets fans, all fans, only remember when they were right, and conveniently ignore when they were wrong.

 

[NoBowles]

25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We know what we see, and most of us have been religiously watching Pro football for going on 30-40 years.

We know what football is about.  Quite a few of us played, high school, college too.

And we know what we read, statistics are cold, hard and clear if one has the intelligence to analyze them properly.  And a goodly portion of us here are intelligent, University educated people.

And we're as well read as a group as any, we read everyone on football and talent eval.  We read more than any talking head does, be assured.

Be assured, we know as much as any ex-player talking head or general purpose talking head on ESPN.  If you think they study as hard as some of us study, you're fooling yourself.  Most of them are there because they look and sound good on TV, not because of their amazing insight or their spartan-like work ethic doing research.  

 

#noarrogancehere

[Long Island Leprechaun]

20 minutes ago, Stark said:

Scouts are going to hype up the physical measurables and play the "potential" card. There is the potential that Allen could be great, but how many of the "man, if this guy goes to the right coaching staff he could be great in a few years- he has all the tools...." actually ever pan out at QB. . . . 

My guess on Rosen is also the "well, he has to answer questions about his character and his desire to really play football". Rosen is hands down the best pure passing QB prospect in the draft. Best footwork, strong accurate arm, intelligent, played under center.... the knocks on him are kind of knit picky, yes he had 2 concussions and his shoulder - but the should looked fine this year and he was still able to hit receivers accurately with great placement on 50+yd throws.

 

Yes, I'm aware of all that. But Mayock is no fool who's simply going to fall for the measurables card. Rosen was so significantly better than Allen in college that it's remarkable Mayock put Allen ahead of him. Perhaps the injuries and the motivation are that important re Rosen to drop him behind a small school guy with poor completion rate. There's a big red flag here of some sort. I personally think Rosen is the best QB prospect in the draft. He's just mechanically superior to Darnold and he's smarter and quicker in reading defenses. Darnold had 20 turnovers this year, including nine fumbles. That's very alarming. Gunslingers can get seriously burned in the NFL.

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

#noarrogancehere

Oh, sorry, do you need a safe space from such talk? #millennialsasaresoftlittlepussies

[prime21]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Were quite a few jets fans right about hackenburg?  Yes.

Does Allen appear to have similar qualities as Hack?  Yes.

Pretty easy to see why jets fans would not value this guy as high as others.

Exactly...JET FANS.

In our misery of being long suffering fans, we compare people to past mistakes.  These scouts are not thinking about Hackenburg.  They are talking potential and comparisons to some of the better QB"s in recent history.  I don't remember Hack being compared to or having the potential to be a Roethlisberger or someone of that stature.  

[HessStation]

As of right now, in 2018, the best chance this organization has to succeed for the next 15 years, is if Cousins goes to Denver and the Browns take Allen at #1. That's strictly my opinion and I'm sticking with it....for 2018

[NoBowles]

Just now, Warfish said:

Oh, sorry, do you need a safe space from such talk? #millenilasaresoftlittlepussies

lol, safe space, because you are an untapped QB guru that the NFL hasn't discovered yet? Seriously brah??

millennial? Im 46 years old, lol. Holy hell.

 

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Each of my children feel that their siblings get favorable treatment over the others. In fact, they each swear it to be true.

The reality is my children only remember the time when it suits their argument, and not the other way around.

Jets fans, all fans, only remember when they were right, and conveniently ignore when they were wrong.

 

Only some of them and at least fans that have an opinion on a player or mover have the balls to stick their neck out.  There is an element that will always say "Lets just see how it plays out." So they can NEVER be wrong.

Since the jets have been a highly suspect org for a long time jets fans as a whole have been right more often than not.  And you know what?  That is indeed a sad thing.  Because as you point out we collectively don;t know jack sh*t,.

[NoBowles]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Only some of them and at least fans that have an opinion on a player or mover have the balls to stick their neck out.  There is an element that will always say "Lets just see how it plays out." So they can NEVER be wrong.

Since the jets have been a highly suspect org for a long time jets fans as a whole have been right more often than not.  And you know what?  That is indeed a sad thing.  Because as you point out we collectively don;t know jack sh*t,.

I am strongly of the opinion that success and failure is highly dependent on the organization, in fact, I think its almost 50/50 on the individual and the organization.

The Jets are a sh*t show of an organization. We hire terrible coaches, change coordinators almost yearly, pick questionable players, don't develop them, don't put the right situations around them in terms of personnel or systems, and pretty much everyone sucks.

Want to be a QB guru like Warfish? Stick your neck out and say any QB the Jets draft sucks, you will be right more than wrong.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, prime21 said:

Exactly...JET FANS.

In our misery of being long suffering fans, we compare people to past mistakes.  These scouts are not thinking about Hackenburg.  They are talking potential and comparisons to some of the better QB"s in recent history.  I don't remember Hack being compared to or having the potential to be a Roethlisberger or someone of that stature.  

Big guy, big arm, not great accuracy, to add to that sh*t competition.  Is Allen a better prospect than hack?  Yeah would tough to be worse but his trouble parts the biggest being accuracy are a big issue.

[prime21]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Only some of them and at least fans that have an opinion on a player or mover have the balls to stick their neck out.  There is an element that will always say "Lets just see how it plays out." So they can NEVER be wrong.

Since the jets have been a highly suspect org for a long time jets fans as a whole have been right more often than not.  And you know what?  That is indeed a sad thing.  Because as you point out we collectively don;t know jack sh*t,.

With all that said, I actually hope he's picked before us but if he is the last of the 4 I would take him.  Him or Lamar Jackson.  I am all in on a QB at #6 if we do not get Cousins.

[Jet Life]

Mayock had Gabbert over Cam Newton too

[Dcat]

18 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Each of my children feel that their siblings get favorable treatment over the others. In fact, they each swear it to be true.

The reality is my children only remember the time when it suits their argument, and not the other way around.

Jets fans, all fans, only remember when they were right, and conveniently ignore when they were wrong.

 

Guilty.  the time I was most wrong was the day I became a Jets fan.

[Gastineau Lives]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Big guy, big arm, not great accuracy, to add to that sh*t competition.  Is Allen a better prospect than hack?  Yeah would tough to be worse but his trouble parts the biggest being accuracy are a big issue.

The thing is, you see his mobility at his size and some of the throws he makes when rolling out, across his body, going to his right, etc and you get a little wowed.

I don't want him.

[Stark]

11 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Yes, I'm aware of all that. But Mayock is no fool who's simply going to fall for the measurables card. Rosen was so significantly better than Allen in college that it's remarkable Mayock put Allen ahead of him. Perhaps the injuries and the motivation are that important re Rosen to drop him behind a small school guy with poor completion rate. There's a big red flag here of some sort. I personally think Rosen is the best QB prospect in the draft. He's just mechanically superior to Darnold and he's smarter and quicker in reading defenses. Darnold had 20 turnovers this year, including nine fumbles. That's very alarming. Gunslingers can get seriously burned in the NFL.

If you listen to Mayock in the video he basically says, its so early and I haven't gotten to know the kids.... then he says Allen has the most upside but needs the most work. I am also sick of hearing how Allen has the same coaches and system as Wentz, and that He is similar in size... you know what Allen and Wentz don't have in common. Wentz looked damn good on tape and didn't have any major issues other than level of competition and Allen has issues and the competition issue. 

We agree on Rosen. I usually like Mayocks rankings but every year he has 1 or 2 guys that I am just like, "where the heck do you get that ranking, and usually once he explains he says its potential." I like high end potential when talking about draft picks. I just don't want a high end "learning curve" to get there. 

[NoBowles]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Guilty.  the time I was most wrong was the day I became a Jets fan.

Haha, true dat!