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Tony Pauline Reported tonight...

Greensleeves

By Greensleeves
in NFL Draft

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Warfish

Warfish

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, nycdan said:

Agreed that scenario is a bit ridiculous. 

Just kicking this around.  I proposed elsewhere a trade of our #6, #49 (later 2nd round pick), #107 (4th round) and a 2019 2nd rounder to get to #3.  A bit over the pure trade-chart value but given probable competition for the trade, realistic (IMO) in the scenario where Barkley is off the board for the Colts. 

Do you think that's too much to pay to move up for our choice of all but one of the QBs versus waiting to see who drops (with a small chance none do)?

Over the chart price.....under the price that would be required to make this deal work.  IMO of course.

Middle and Low round picks are in reality near valueless for top-of-first-round trade ups.  It's the draft equivalent of "I'll trade you my trash, you give me your treasure!".  It's not enough meat for the perceived value of the #3 pick in a draft like this with the sharks circling for QB's such as they are.

I would start with asking:  Why do I need to trade up to pick #3 (from Pick #6)?  Given the prospects, I've yet to see a good argument for doing so that doesn't revolve around hysterical fear of losing out on A QB, not a specific QB but this one or that one of that other one.  IMO that's not a good reason to sell off multiple should-be-a-starter draft assets.  #6 should be an elite starter.  Two second rounders should be two solid impact starters.  A 4th rounder should be at least a solid starter/first tier backup.  Thats four players, including three starters, for a chnace at maybe a crapshoot Macc pick at QB like Josh Allen?  No.

I believe Baker Mayfield will be available at pick #6.  I would sit, and pick him there, and be happy. 

My fear is a rouge GM (like say, Tannenbaum) falling in love and pulling an oh sh*t damn! trade, and trading the literal farm to get up for Mayfield at #4, tossing Cleveland a boatload of picks and players.  

I'm torn because frankly I don;t want any of the available FA QB's at all, at ALL, other than Cousins (who we will not get IMO).  

So I really want to draft a QB (or two).  But I fear selling the farm, especially for who MACC might use the pick on.  His judgement cannot be trusted.

of course, if we miss in the top of round 1, my nightmare of Bridgewater + Jackson is even more likely to happen, so **** me, what do I know, I HAVE NO IDEA AAAAAHHHHHHHHRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

:lol:

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.  Same old Jets.

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Jets Voice of Reason

Jets Voice of Reason

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, nycdan said:

He's an all-pro Guard and by far the best FA available at the position.  We have sub-average Guards.  We also have $100MM in cap to spend.

This is the real kicker in all this. If plan B was go after Richburg and Norwell, then at least they try to shore up an OL as the foundation of a rebuild. 

The longer this goes and the more top guys sign elsewhere looks more likely we are gonna overpay some mediocre guys. 

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nyjunc

nyjunc

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Lay out the non-Cousins scenario where the Jets can make the playoffs.

it's not just Cousins, it can be w/ a drafted QB that is ready to play right away.  remember, we lost a bunch of close games late last year. we easily could have been in the race in 2017. No team is that far from the playoffs- even Cleveland.  There are a ton of moves to be made starting w/ QB and the OL but moves will be there to be made.  Buffalo and NYG made the playoffs the last 2 seasons w/ their offenses scoring 17 PPG. it's not like superteams are making the playoffs.  we are a long way away from 2009 or 2010 when we competed for conf titles but we can compete for a playoff spot as early as 2018.

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nycdan

nycdan

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

This is the real kicker in all this. If plan B was go after Richburg and Norwell, then at least they try to shore up an OL as the foundation of a rebuild. 

The longer this goes and the more top guys sign elsewhere looks more likely we are gonna overpay some mediocre guys. 

Bingo.  Overpay stars.  Not JAGs.

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nycdan

nycdan

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Over the chart price.....under the price that would be required to make this deal work.  IMO of course.

Middle and Low round picks are in reality near valueless for top-of-first-round trade ups.  It's the draft equivalent of "I'll trade you my trash, you give me your treasure!".  It's not enough meat for the perceived value of the #3 pick in a draft like this with the sharks circling for QB's such as they are.

I would start with asking:  Why do I need to trade up to pick #3 (from Pick #6)?  Given the prospects, I've yet to see a good argument for doing so that doesn't revolve around hysterical fear of losing out on A QB, not a specific QB but this one or that one of that other one.  IMO that's not a good reason to sell off multiple should-be-a-starter draft assets.  #6 should be an elite starter.  Two second rounders should be two solid impact starters.  A 4th rounder should be at least a solid starter/first tier backup.  Thats four players, including three starters, for a chnace at maybe a crapshoot Macc pick at QB like Josh Allen?  No.

I believe Baker Mayfield will be available at pick #6.  I would sit, and pick him there, and be happy. 

My fear is a rouge GM (like say, Tannenbaum) falling in love and pulling an oh sh*t damn! trade, and trading the literal farm to get up for Mayfield at #4, tossing Cleveland a boatload of picks and players.  

I'm torn because frankly I don;t want any of the available FA QB's at all, at ALL, other than Cousins (who we will not get IMO).  

So I really want to draft a QB (or two).  But I fear selling the farm, especially for who MACC might use the pick on.  His judgement cannot be trusted.

of course, if we miss in the top of round 1, my nightmare of Bridgewater + Jackson is even more likely to happen, so **** me, what do I know, I HAVE NO IDEA AAAAAHHHHHHHHRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

:lol:

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.  Same old Jets.

I'm trying to unpack this but your apparent day-drinking isn't helping :)

You seem to be saying you don't need to trade up.  Then you say you're worried about MIA or someone else doing just that which means we needed to trade up.  I'm confused :P

If you want Mayfield, and you aren't 100% certain he will be there at #6, then it seems to me you are supporting trading up and now we're just negotiating price.  To your point about trash/treasure, most of the big moves up to the top-5 slots involve some lower picks to balance.  You're referring to the #4 this year as a solid starter/first-tier backup so that's not trash.  I didn't bother with picks below 4th round for just that reason.  

The one part of what you wrote that I can work with is you fell the price is too low to make the deal.  That's cool (but sad if true).  What do you think it would take to get to 3?  or 4?  Price would be different pre-draft or during the draft after Barkley gets taken so give the conditions.

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JetsFanatic

JetsFanatic

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

1. Jets no chance for Cousins
2. Cousins to Vikings a done deal

Saw this a few minutes ago on another Jets forum

I don’t doubt you heard correctly. I guess the Vikings tampered, how else could a deal be done.

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Greensleeves

Greensleeves

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Exhibit A why Fans make sh*tty GM's.

A Fan would happily trade the 2018 #2, both 2018 #2's, the 2019 #1 and #2.......to move up to #3 and get Josh "Jeff George" Allen.

That same fan, a year later, would be beefing about why the team is so thin and lacking talent at RB, WR, O-Line and on Defense, never realizing the deep and unrelenting irony of it all.

 

This is not what I'm reading at all. If you move to #3 or #4 it's to get either Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield. That's totally worth this year's #1 swap, a #2 from this year and maybe a 3 or 4 - that may be all that's required. If you swing for the fences and miss it's much better than not having the guts and playing it safe and still missing. I can live with that. What I don't get is all the people that want to chance missing out on the QB we want. Fortune favors the brave. At least one of those 2s won't pan out anyhow, so we're most likely gaining a FQB and losing very little. If we move to #1 or 2 it will require next year's 1 as well. I'm fine with that if they like one QB more than all of the others. Personally, I would try and move to #3 so Indy and Cleveland don't trade the picks to a QB needy team.

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Greensleeves

Greensleeves

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This is why you trade up: A. Because all of those picks NEVER become solid long term starters. History and data back me up. B. If you like a QB more than the other QBs - that's about it to me.

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Over the chart price.....under the price that would be required to make this deal work.  IMO of course.

Middle and Low round picks are in reality near valueless for top-of-first-round trade ups.  It's the draft equivalent of "I'll trade you my trash, you give me your treasure!".  It's not enough meat for the perceived value of the #3 pick in a draft like this with the sharks circling for QB's such as they are.

I would start with asking:  Why do I need to trade up to pick #3 (from Pick #6)?  Given the prospects, I've yet to see a good argument for doing so that doesn't revolve around hysterical fear of losing out on A QB, not a specific QB but this one or that one of that other one.  IMO that's not a good reason to sell off multiple should-be-a-starter draft assets.  #6 should be an elite starter.  Two second rounders should be two solid impact starters.  A 4th rounder should be at least a solid starter/first tier backup.  Thats four players, including three starters, for a chnace at maybe a crapshoot Macc pick at QB like Josh Allen?  No.

I believe Baker Mayfield will be available at pick #6.  I would sit, and pick him there, and be happy. 

My fear is a rouge GM (like say, Tannenbaum) falling in love and pulling an oh sh*t damn! trade, and trading the literal farm to get up for Mayfield at #4, tossing Cleveland a boatload of picks and players.  

I'm torn because frankly I don;t want any of the available FA QB's at all, at ALL, other than Cousins (who we will not get IMO).  

So I really want to draft a QB (or two).  But I fear selling the farm, especially for who MACC might use the pick on.  His judgement cannot be trusted.

of course, if we miss in the top of round 1, my nightmare of Bridgewater + Jackson is even more likely to happen, so **** me, what do I know, I HAVE NO IDEA AAAAAHHHHHHHHRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!

:lol:

Damned if we do, damned if we don't.  Same old Jets.

 

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Exhibit A why Fans make sh*tty GM's.

A Fan would happily trade the 2018 #2, both 2018 #2's, the 2019 #1 and #2.......to move up to #3 and get Josh "Jeff George" Allen.

That same fan, a year later, would be beefing about why the team is so thin and lacking talent at RB, WR, O-Line and on Defense, never realizing the deep and unrelenting irony of it all.

 

Did I say Allen? Did I put a specific price on the trade up? Did I say I wouldn’t accommodate said price with FA? 

Try again.

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Warfish

Warfish

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Posted
33 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Did I say Allen? Did I put a specific price on the trade up? Did I say I wouldn’t accommodate said price with FA? 

Try again.

Be more specific next time? 

"WARGARBL! MUST TRADE UP!" isn't really much to go on, other than the raving and drooling aspect.

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Thai Jet

Thai Jet

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

Is it too early to trade up now if you know which QB you like? I think not. Trade up to 4 and we get a top 3 guy. Trade up to 3 and we probably get the second QB off the board.

Patience grasshopper patience.

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

TRADE FOR #1 TOMORROW YOU BUM ASS SORRY EXCUSES FOR A FRONT OFFICE.

 

I swear to you all...if we don’t trade up into the top 3 and we wind up with ANYTHING LESS than Baker, Rosen or Darnold...I’m done for the next few years. Sorry not sorry. Still bleed green. Just won’t do this sh*t to myself anymore.

Hmmm, part of me wants them to trade up but now part of me thinks losing fans like you would be worth sitting back and taking Allen at 6.

 

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

I don’t doubt you heard correctly. I guess the Vikings tampered, how else could a deal be done.

You shouldn't be surprised that there's tampering. I'm very pessimistic on our chances but the fact that he wants to do visits means he is still not certain. 

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JetsFanatic

JetsFanatic

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You shouldn't be surprised that there's tampering. I'm very pessimistic on our chances but the fact that he wants to do visits means he is still not certain. 

Cousins may very well sign with the Vikings. However, anything that is being reported now is nothing more than guesses or opinions.  There is no way a solid QB in his prime is not going to maximize free agency and just go into the tank for one team before the process even begins.

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Thai Jet

Thai Jet

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, nycdan said:

Agreed that scenario is a bit ridiculous. 

Just kicking this around.  I proposed elsewhere a trade of our #6, #49 (later 2nd round pick), #107 (4th round) and a 2019 2nd rounder to get to #3.  A bit over the pure trade-chart value but given probable competition for the trade, realistic (IMO) in the scenario where Barkley is off the board for the Colts. 

Do you think that's too much to pay to move up for our choice of all but one of the QBs versus waiting to see who drops (with a small chance none do)?

Tough call. I myself would be leary of giving up that 2nd in 2019.  If we swapped that 4th this year with our 3rd this year we'd still be over the value chart while saving that 2019 pick.

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Patriot Killa

Patriot Killa

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Posted
41 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Be more specific next time? 

"WARGARBL! MUST TRADE UP!" isn't really much to go on, other than the raving and drooling aspect.

Be more specific? It must be difficult for you to comprehend basic sentences. I quite clearly said “Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield.” 

You serious right now? You are blaming me for your lack of attention.

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BrickTamland

BrickTamland

Posted
Posted

Also. Saquon and Chubb likely taken in top5. Nelson is possible. Denzel Ward or an improved 40time at proday Joshua Jackson could possibly sneak in. Maybe even this Mink guy. 

The idea that dolphins/bills etc are desperate to give up their lives to move top5 is being overhyped.

You can make a lame offer to get to 1. If no go, you sit at 6 and make a meh offer to move to 3 if Darnold/Rosen still around. You dont part with more than one 2 this year and a high pick next year. 

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, Mogglez said:

It's been reported around the Denver beat for months that their "Kirk snubs us" plan is sign Case Keenum and draft a QB (ideally for them, Rosen or Mayfield, based on their preference).

Interesting, I figured this was the Jets "Kirk subs us" plan.  

Which means, WE'RE BRING JOSHY BACK!!!!

Image result for i'm bringing sexy back gif

 

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Warfish

Warfish

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Be more specific? It must be difficult for you to comprehend basic sentences. I quite clearly said “Rosen, Darnold or Mayfield.” 

Yes, very specific.  Three out of four.  Totally specific.  

 

 

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Pcola

Pcola

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

This is why you trade up: A. Because all of those picks NEVER become solid long term starters. History and data back me up. B. If you like a QB more than the other QBs - that's about it to me.

 

This!  

I would trade Adams, Darron Lee, Stewart, Hackenberg, Hill, Ducasse, etc. for a FQB.

Lets stop pretending we get anything from our draft class.

Mack has drafted 22 players in three drafts.

Legit starters: Adams, Maye, Williams, maybe Jenkins

Thats four.  Even if you add Lee, and Shell that is stil not a lot of production.  Specially when you consider we haven’t gotten anything out of anyone else he’s drafted except for a 7th round Punter.

If we don’t get Cousins, Macc needs to come away with a FQB.  He can either trade up and get the best one or wait and take the guy that no one else in the top 5 liked.  And that’s if no one trades up in front of us.  Risk versus reward.  I can forgive aggressiveness.  I can tolerate passiveness.

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Warfish

Warfish

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29 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

That’s the only 3 I would take at the top of the draft.

That’s as specific as it could of got ..

That is a really cool story. 

Is there any way you could tell me more, or is there some form of newsletter I could subscribe to?

"The Killa Kommunicata" has a nice ring to it.

We're not going to let you in to the Inner Rhombus, just say'in.

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BrickTamland

BrickTamland

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Warfish said:

That is a really cool story. 

Is there any way you could tell me more, or is there some form of newsletter I could subscribe to?

"The Killa Kommunicata" has a nice ring to it.

We're not going to let you in to the Inner Rhombus, just say'in.

This is some creepy stuff

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