Loving Josh Rosen (merged)

[Mackman55]

12 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I got to agree. The only reason why no one ever mocks Rosen at #1 is because of the thought that Rosen basically stated that he doesn't want to play in Cleveland. However, many folks had him mocked as the 2nd QB off the board, usually to the Giants. 

If the Browns are comfortable with all 3 QB's, including Rosen, then what could happen is the Browns GM draft Barkley #1 because having the 4th pick will guarantee any one of the top 3 QB's. But that means that the Browns are willing to draft Rosen, which I believe they could. 

That would work wonders for us. Or, given that I don't see a team like the Giants passing on a top QB to take Barkley when he's a RB and the RB depth is deep this year and its rare for the Giants to have a top 2 pick in a rich QB draft, this may force the Browns to pick a QB first just to get the pick of the litter if they truly believe that the Giants are going QB no matter what and everyone knows that the Jets are going QB for sure. Then they could simply pick up Barkley at the 4th spot. 

Either way, there's a high probability that the Giants will draft Rosen at #2 given that this is most likely Eli's last year. 

Most importantly the Brown's GM wants no part of Rosen. If the Giants don't select him, barring  a trade, he'll be there at 3.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/Cleveland-Browns-John-Dorsey-advises-to-stay-away-from-UCLA-Josh-Rosen-112784642

Report: John Dorsey advises to "stay away" from Josh Rosen

The Browns quarterback board could becoming more clear.

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

The thing is though it’s not just that. If it was only concussions I would agree. But there are soooo many red flags with this kid.


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Attitude? Not likable? Nah..

1.)His teammates went out on a limb for him just to clear his name. People don’t go out of their way like that for no reason, 

2.) His coaches have always said he’s a good kid.

3.) There have been plenty of anti-social/snobby guys who are successful. Aaron Rodgers is one who comes to mind tbqh.

[Adoni Beast]

I really think the Giants pass on Rosen. I can only see the Giants taking Darnold from thid quarterback class, and I think he goes to Cleveland.

Giants won’t trade all the way back to 12 with Buffalo, as the Giants are in “win-now” mode and need their rookie to produce immediately. They’ll probably take Barkley or trade down with us at 3, or with Denver at 5.

But I don’t know if Denver will even want to trade up. But I can almost guarentee they won’t be trading down to 12.

Gettleman just said he wants a guy you can see wearing a gold jacket some day. Thats a top 2/3 pick in Barkley or Nelson.

[Thai Jet]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Rosen is likely off the board by pick #3.

We should focus on Allan, Mayfield and Jackson.

That is who Macc will likely be picking from at #3.

JACKSON !!!! If the Jets pick Jackson at #3 , a QB we could have had trading down, I think the fan base will lynch Macc. No Way they are considering Jackson at 3.

[Jazy8ball]

Again. What’s wrong with Allen? I’ll be thrilled with any of the big 4 QB’s. Don’t give me the Allen \ Hackenberg comps, they hold no weight. Allen has been evaluated by every expert out there and is considered a top prospect. Hackenberg was not, we took a chance on him and it didn’t work out. I personally like the fact that Allen played a lot in cold weather, Darnold and Rosen play most of their games in perfect weather.

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Mackman55 said:

Most importantly the Brown's GM wants no part of Rosen. If the Giants don't select him, barring  a trade, he'll be there at 3.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/Cleveland-Browns-John-Dorsey-advises-to-stay-away-from-UCLA-Josh-Rosen-112784642

Report: John Dorsey advises to "stay away" from Josh Rosen

The Browns quarterback board could becoming more clear.

I didn't know this. Great find. 

I just hope they don't pick Mayfield 1st overall. Let them take Darnold and the Giants can take Rosen and leave the Jets with Mayfield. 

Maybe Dorsey is onto something here. Don't get me wrong, there's promise in Rosen...much potential, but im not really impressed with his overall game. The guy is almost as hyped this year as Darnold was hyped last year. It's a bit much. 

All of these QB's have issues, but I think Mayfield is as much under-appreciated as Rosen is over-hyped. 

[Larz]

I'm trying not to fall in love yet 

I'm ok with any of the big 4 QBs 

Just give me someone to love, then the bromance begins 

[RSJ]

Didnt Rosen pretty much say he wouldnt want to play for the Browns?


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[sec101row23]

3 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

Again. What’s wrong with Allen? I’ll be thrilled with any of the big 4 QB’s. Don’t give me the Allen \ Hackenberg comps, they hold no weight. Allen has been evaluated by every expert out there and is considered a top prospect. Hackenberg was not, we took a chance on him and it didn’t work out. I personally like the fact that Allen played a lot in cold weather, Darnold and Rosen play most of their games in perfect weather.

Agreed.  I think Allen is being devalued while Mayfield is being over-valued.  Hack was a mess mechanically coming out of college, Allen isn’t perfect, but FAR better than Hack ever was.  I would feel way more comfortable taking Allen over Mayfield if the choice was between those two. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, RSJ said:

Didnt Rosen pretty much say he wouldnt want to play for the Browns?


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He said it intelligently.  He said he'd prefer to be drafted by a team later that's a better fit, than to be drafted higher and be a poorer fit, or something like that.  It implied he didn't want to go to cleveland without flat out saying it. Truth, i think at the time he said it he realized Cleveland had 2 picks in the top 4 and that the New York teams were in play for him. In fairness to him, why would a California kid want to play in cleveland - but darnold could wind up there.

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  I think Allen is being devalued while Mayfield is being over-valued.  Hack was a mess mechanically coming out of college, Allen isn’t perfect, but FAR better than Hack ever was.  I would feel way more comfortable taking Allen over Mayfield if the choice was between those two. 

If mayfield were an inch taller he'd be compared more to farve than manziel.  The height thing is overstated with mayfield and his arm is plenty strong.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

If Genttelman feels like Paradis about Rosen, the Giants will pick him at 2.

Exactly.

Lusting for Rosen is going to feel like your brother getting the GI Joe you begged Santa for on Christmas morning.

If we want Rosen, we're going to have to jump the Giants and get the #1 from the Browns, period.

SAR I

[RSJ]

He said it intelligently.  He said he'd prefer to be drafted by a team later that's a better fit, than to be drafted higher and be a poorer fit, or something like that.  It implied he didn't want to go to cleveland without flat out saying it. Truth, i think at the time he said it he realized Cleveland had 2 picks in the top 4 and that the New York teams were in play for him. In fairness to him, why would a California kid want to play in cleveland - but darnold could wind up there.

 

Thats what is so interesting about this year. On paper Allen is probably the best fit for the Giants as he could sit and according to most has the highest ceiling. But realistically coming from North Dakota he probably fits the Browns the best. Its going to be very interesting.

 

 

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[Jetster]

Macc loves Rosen AND Mayfield! That is the ONLY reason he moved up to 3. Bates is a quick release WCO. Both Rosen & Mayfield can get the ball out quickly and accurately. With Buffalo & Miami, division foes nosing in for a better look at these top QBs it was imperative for the Macc & the Jets to get high enough for a no fail draft of a top QB that fits Bates coaching.

Now, it really doesn't matter what the Giants do really, although I find it hard to believe after the fallout of Eli getting benched they would pay the capital of a 2nd round QB to have him sit on the bench. The Giants because of their free agency forays the last 2 years are still a win now team. I think if Gettleman believes Barkley is the next Emmitt, Ladanian, he's going #2 & the Jets fans go bonkers as the draft moves to pick #3 and the Jets are sitting there with Rosen, Mayfield & Allen. 

Its gonna be f*cking exciting, and I believe all 3 of these guys will have NFL careers. I do believe this group of QBs, including one or two guys from Rudolph, White, Lauletta, Falk will be a group that thrusts the next generation of QBs to replace Brady, Ben, Rivers, Eli, and a few more of the elder statesmen in the league now. 

[Jazy8ball]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  I think Allen is being devalued while Mayfield is being over-valued.  Hack was a mess mechanically coming out of college, Allen isn’t perfect, but FAR better than Hack ever was.  I would feel way more comfortable taking Allen over Mayfield if the choice was between those two. 

Hack was never projected to be a top 5 pick. Allen is. The truth is, anyone of these 4 QBs could be a bust. Now way to tell. But to say no to Allen because of Hack makes no sense to me. We could not take the change of saying at 6 and having all 4 be gone. 

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Jazy8ball said:

Again. What’s wrong with Allen? I’ll be thrilled with any of the big 4 QB’s. Don’t give me the Allen \ Hackenberg comps, they hold no weight. Allen has been evaluated by every expert out there and is considered a top prospect. Hackenberg was not, we took a chance on him and it didn’t work out. I personally like the fact that Allen played a lot in cold weather, Darnold and Rosen play most of their games in perfect weather.

@Mogglez 

I’ll let you handle this lol.

 

I’m just going to say this. Rosen is bay far the better QB than Allen. They aren’t even in the same  realm of polished talent. You can’t even use the word polished for Allen and if you say talent you better be referring to arm strength...which becomes a moot point when you realize Rosen will sling the ball 80 yards.(Pro Day clip) and statically has the best accuracy on deep balls out of them all.

Rosen look like a veteran already despite the few issues @Villain The Foe pointed out. I happen to agree he does a few reckless things but if you don’t think Baker Mayfield does the same just in a different manner...you are nuts. There is no Mike Glennon comparison as far as mechanics, throwing motion, the point of release or progression reading goes.(as you considered) but he is by faaar the better prospect than both of these guys.(IMO) I didn’t see that much of a stiff at all in that Texas A&M film. Is he a runner? Hell no! But he obviously will take off if he absolutely has to and he does manipulate the pocket pretty damn well if you ask me. Does he extend plays? Not so much. Does he get inaccurate under pressure? Sure, a lot of QB’s do. Here’s my “hot take” on that too...that notion is actually really hyped. You can clearly tell in just the Texas A&M game alone the innate ability to know where everyone is at once. You can see the guts he has to absorb a hit while throwing. This isn’t an all this time thing whatsoever. There are plenty of balls thrown under pressure which he still threads in perfectly and then there are some that he doesn’t. He still is the most polished passer to enter the league since Andrew Luck.

[sec101row23]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

If mayfield were an inch taller he'd be compared more to farve than manziel.  The height thing is overstated with mayfield and his arm is plenty strong.

I’m not so sure his arm is that great to be honest.  I think Manziel had a better arm coming out of college, and Mayfield isn’t even close Favre IMO.  I just don’t see what Mayfield does so well to overcome his height issues.  

[bitonti]

8 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

Again. What’s wrong with Allen? I’ll be thrilled with any of the big 4 QB’s. Don’t give me the Allen \ Hackenberg comps, they hold no weight. Allen has been evaluated by every expert out there and is considered a top prospect. Hackenberg was not, we took a chance on him and it didn’t work out. I personally like the fact that Allen played a lot in cold weather, Darnold and Rosen play most of their games in perfect weather.

 

Given a night to sleep on it I suspect the Jets made the move with Allen on their short list and Darnold too. 

The question who is the 3rd QB Rosen or Mayfield? either would be fine with me personally but Cimini reports Mayfield the odd man out for being short. Which is totally plausible given Mac's draft history. It's not that Allen is another Hackenberg it's that Mac likes guys who look like Hackenberg enough to take them in rd 2. Allen at 3 might be a steal in Mac's eyes.  

For Rosen (or Mayfield) to be the pick Darnold and Allen would have to be off the board first.  

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Jazy8ball said:

Hack was never projected to be a top 5 pick. Allen is. The truth is, anyone of these 4 QBs could be a bust. Now way to tell. But to say no to Allen because of Hack makes no sense to me. We could not take the change of saying at 6 and having all 4 be gone. 

Wrong, Hack was a top 5 projected pick at one point and time. And that window quickly closed.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

I’m not so sure his arm is that great to be honest.  I think Manziel had a better arm coming out of college, and Mayfield isn’t even close Favre IMO.  I just don’t see what Mayfield does so well to overcome his height issues.  

I think I've read that his arm is better than manziel's.  I'm not sure what mayfield needs to do to overcome height issues.  He's not 5'8".  They should have beat Georgia if their hc wasn't a wimp at the end and let him throw.  His mechanics are fine, he's got a quick, compact delivery, throws a great ball.  Good ball placement.  He's built better than Rosen to handle the nfl.  The guy is a gamer as well.  

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, bitonti said:

Given a night to sleep on it I suspect the Jets made the move with Allen on their short list and Darnold too. 

The question who is the 3rd QB Rosen or Mayfield? either would be fine with me personally but Cimini reports Mayfield the odd man out for being short. Which is totally plausible given Mac's draft history. It's not that Allen is another Hackenberg it's that Mac likes guys who look like Hackenberg enough to take them in rd 2. Allen at 3 might be a steal in Mac's eyes.  

For Rosen (or Mayfield) to be the pick Darnold and Allen would have to be off the board first.  

Absolutely disagree. This happened a day after his pro day. You haven’t seen the reports about how much they love him? I mean, seriously. Our own insiders have also confirmed it. The board most likely goes

1.)Rosen

2.)Darnold

3.)Allen/Mayfield

[RSJ]

At the risk of being flamed I am going to say that I believe Mayfield slides far on draft day. Like I think he could end up at 12 to the Bills.


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[Augustiniak]

Just now, RSJ said:

At the risk of being flamed I am going to say that I believe Mayfield slides far on draft day. Like I think he could end up at 12 to the Bills.


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I don't think the bills want him.  They want a Jim Kelly type for their weather.  Allen is ideal for them, but cleveland may think that way about their climate.

[Jetsplayer21]

52 minutes ago, slats said:

 

And then what happens? They draft the best QB available in the third round? 

It's one thing if four QBs were gone and Barkley dropped to them at six, it's an entirely different thing trading up three spots for three second round picks for the third pick in the draft. 

It wouldn’t surprise me. We know Mac tried to get to 2 is the rumor ? If he thought equally about 3, then 3 is definitely high enough. I think he may not quite sold on Allen, wants darnold or Rosen. If those 2 are gone 1 and 2 it wouldn’t be a stretch to think Mac goes back to BPA and picks a once in 15 yrs rb for his hc who wants to run the ball more than any other team. Maybe he thinks bridgewater can be our guy beyond next yr, wants to try him out. I want darnold or Rosen now also, especially after trading away 3 premium picks 

[Jazy8ball]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Wrong, Hack was a top 5 projected pick at one point and time. And that window quickly closed.

I’m not an expert. But I believe Hack was projected a top 5 pick after his freshmen year at PSU. But he was nowhere close to being projected as even a 1st round pick when he entered the draft. But I think your making my point. Allen has gone through the scrutiny and is still picked by some to go #1 overall. I’m simply saying I’d be happy with any of the QB’s. I like Allen due to cold weather experience. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Absolutely disagree. This happened a day after his pro day. You haven’t seen the reports about how much they love him? I mean, seriously. Our own insiders have also confirmed it. The board most likely goes

1.)Rosen

2.)Darnold

3.)Allen/Mayfield

The reports are the Jets have been on Josh Allen like white on rice for 12+ months. Darnold is the known quantity. 

this trade was made after Rosen/Mayfield pro days, Mac was at both. It just could be Mac saying "God we can't draft X" and Cimini reported today it was Mayfield for being short. If Rosen is the pick it's because 2 QBs came off the board 1st. 

BTW i saw a board the other day that had Mayfield graded as rd 2 and Rosen graded as rd 3.   

 

let me also clarify as a Jets fan I will gladly take either. this is not about what any of us personally wants. It's about diving the will of Mac. Maybe he can draft Rosen with Woody overseas. Maybe he's just not that scared of being fired anymore.

I can believe Rosen is qb3, but qb1 seems high. No one's talking about his injuries or the fact that he's the least mobile of the quarterbacks. Side note Kolton Miller could go in rd 1, Lansley rising up boards, Quessenberry going to be draft picks too this isn't a Wyoming situation. 

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Jazy8ball said:

I’m not an expert. But I believe Hack was projected a top 5 pick after his freshmen year at PSU. But he was nowhere close to being projected as even a 1st round pick when he entered the draft. But I think your making my point. Allen has gone through the scrutiny and is still picked by some to go #1 overall. I’m simply saying I’d be happy with any of the QB’s. I like Allen due to cold weather experience. 

Allen has gone through the scrutiny and still is mentioned in the top 5 because of his media hyped arm strength and his “potential”. I see no tools that make him any different than Jay Cutler.

[RSJ]

I don't think the bills want him.  They want a Jim Kelly type for their weather.  Allen is ideal for them, but cleveland may think that way about their climate.

True, I didnt want to make it seem unrealistic- but I can see him sliding very far in the first. Who was the last top 10 QB from a spread offense at his size to get picked in the top 10?


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[bitonti]

Just now, RSJ said:

 

True, I didnt want to make it seem unrealistic- but I can see him sliding very far in the first. Who was the last top 10 QB from a spread offense at his size to get picked in the top 10?


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It hasn't happened before but Denver could get him at 5 with Keenum (same height-ish) and be ready to roll.  Miami would take him at 11. Cardinals at 15 is all these guy's floor. I don't think he drops to 12. The bills have to go and get QB 4 but maybe just up to 7,8 or 9.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

The reports are the Jets have been on Josh Allen like white on rice for 12+ months. Darnold is the known quantity. 

this trade was made after Rosen/Mayfield pro days, Mac was at both. It just could be Mac saying "God we can't draft X" and Cimini reported today it was Mayfield for being short. If Rosen is the pick it's because 2 QBs came off the board 1st. 

BTW i saw a board the other day that had Mayfield graded as rd 2 and Rosen graded as rd 3.   

Analysts rarely are right anyway lol. I tend to not pay much attention to mock boards. The Jets haven’t been on any one of these guys like white on rice more than the other. They have thoroughly examined them all tbqh. The difference is the media hyped up Allen to such a high extent that Allen is what mostly is heard by the public. It has been Rosen and Mayfield just as much or more than Allen.

[Warfish]

24 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

Again. What’s wrong with Allen?

College QB's with accuracy problems at the college level (i.e. under ~60%) are generally considered poor prospects for the pro level and generally do not succeed once there.

That is what everyone thinks is wrong with Allen.  He's Hack-like in his inaccuracy.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Allen has gone through the scrutiny and still is mentioned in the top 5 because of his media hyped arm strength and his “potential”. I see no tools that make him any different than Jay Cutler.

Nfl.com compares him to jake locker.  

I will stand by my contention that i can't see mccagnan taking allen after the hack failure.  He's going to take someone who has the tape and won't require a ton of work.  The qb they draft has to play this year and has to look good, the johnsons aren't going to be happy watching allen be inactive all season.

[Patriot Killa]

9 minutes ago, RSJ said:

At the risk of being flamed I am going to say that I believe Mayfield slides far on draft day. Like I think he could end up at 12 to the Bills.


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I think the Cardinals would grab him before the Bills do..barring some huge Bills or Broncos trade.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

True, I didnt want to make it seem unrealistic- but I can see him sliding very far in the first. Who was the last top 10 QB from a spread offense at his size to get picked in the top 10?


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Very true and valid.  However, if the saints traded up to get mayfield and sat him a year and then Brees retired, Payton would create an offense around him and make him look great.  So maybe what we're saying here is, we doubt the jets would be able to understand how to use him properly.

[bitonti]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

I will stand by my contention that i can't see mccagnan taking allen after the hack failure 

3

this assumes Mac learns from mistakes 

He might just blame Hack and double down on his own preferences. That seems far more likely than him shooting out of bed like Scrooge on Xmas morning and being a totally different GM.