Move The Sticks 360 : Josh Allen Podcast

[Gangrene]

 

Here it is...the debate, pros and cons; Josh Allen, Go Deep  !   Delving into the stats

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000923799/article/move-the-sticks-podcast-who-should-draft-josh-allen

[MDL_JET]

If you could provide notes. That’d be great.

[MDL_JET]

Listened to some of it. I’m starting to be fine if we take him. He may miss some easy throws but I think he’ll be entertaining at the least and really wow us at times. I would just pray he’s consistent. I’d also be scared of him being a total bust but that’s with all the QBs so.....yolo. 

[Scoop24]

This podcast was really well done .. DJ always has the best content .. I’m okay with Allen if he is the pick . 

[Adoni Beast]

After watching as many games of his as I could. His footwork is so sloppy because his arm bails him out. 

If he ever nails down the footwork, and continues to develop on some touch throws, he’s going to be great.

[nycdan]

16 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Listened to some of it. I’m starting to be fine if we take him. He may miss some easy throws but I think he’ll be entertaining at the least and really wow us at times. I would just pray he’s consistent. I’d also be scared of him being a total bust but that’s with all the QBs so.....yolo. 

Amen.  Every time he takes a 5 or god-forbid 7-step drop, you're going to be holding your breath.  I just hope Robby Anderson can keep his sh-t together long enough to be on the field with this kid if we draft him.  Because if he gets matched up with a slower DB, it's gonna get real interesting, one way or another.

[Gangrene]

Daniel Jeremiah is a bit higher on Allen than Bucky Brooks is. Jeremiah compares him to Wentz but he is going to need another year to mature because he is a year younger than Wentz with one year less of college football.  Bucky compares him to a poor man's Cam Newton not quite the running threat but similar in many other ways athletically and arm strength/mobility. 

Allen's head Coach  at Wyoming is interviewed for the podcast. "Players love him, He's ultra competitive. We run a prostyle system, it has to be a guy with a high football IQ. He's really improved from the first to the second year, on the second year we put more on his plate. Some guys can't handle the extra complexities of the offense in the second year but Wentz and Allen had zero problems with that. Coach has zero doubt about Allen's trajectory to success in the NFl. He believes he is going to be one of the top guys in the NFL "Future highlight reels in NFL films, I've never seen anyone with his arm strength, not even Vinny Testaverde or Jeff George".  " Josh Allen's ball, you don't see it, that ball you hear it." 

Coach again "Yes, he got a bit sloppy with his footwork, sometimes he pushes the envelope too much, forcing the ball too much." He feels it's all fixible in a very young quarterback. He is already making leaps in cleaning up his footwork in the Bowl game and the Senior Bowl.

Coach describes Josh facing adversity, going against San Diego State. He warned Allen before the game about their All American corner sitting on the routes "watch out". Allen after he throws an interception to the guy, he runs over and lights up the corner taking him out. The corner fumbles the ball and Wyoming recover the ball. Allen returns to the sideline with blood coming down his face (grinning).

Interview then with Jordan Palmer who trained Josh Allen and Sam Darnold for two months.

Palmer on Allen.  " He was quiet with for the first few weeks but once he got comfortable with Sam Darnold and myself, I found Allen really funny, really confident, gets to the point, great personality. Everybody is going to graviate to him. He doesn't have a small school feel about him at all"

Palmer says confidence is a big thing for every young qb, it takes a while to believe you are good enough. He thinks Allen will take a moment but Palmer believes he will make the switch quickly to believe in himself. He describes the mechanic correction in his overstride getting his back hip through. Josh Allen was an over strider. Palmer widened his base, re-engineering his mechanic. Whenever he missed it's a narrow base issue. "Now Allen is in complete control of it".

Palmer thinks big armed qbs like Cam Newton wait to see seperation before he throws because they have so much belief in their other worldly arm strength. He's suggesting here that it remains a problem for Newton, instead of anticipatory throws.

Palmer again "Allen is so smart, he is going to take a big jump when to goes to the league. I don't see his mechanics are going to be an issue going to the next level, he is going to be a much better pro"

Asked by Daniel Jeremiah, for a player comp, Christian Palmer thinks Josh is a much faster version of Roethlisberger.  As regards personality, "Farve'ish" in how much his teammates love, the equipment guy loves and the fans love. Those guys are usually very successful"

Ryan Flaherty is interviewed then, he has trained 18 of the 32 starting qbs in the NFL., senior director at Nike. Flaherty is a science tech analytics type coach.

"I've never seen an arm like this in my life. His arm is beyond elite. His physical skills against anyone, is second to none, stronger arm than Jamarcus. The best part is he is an awesome kid. He developed. He is really smart, further along than many people think. Josh is a little faster than Carson, very similar to Cam Newton in measurables. Josh is a little bigger, Carson was 24 years of age coming out, but Josh and Sam Darnold are really, really young, they are going to look so much different physically twelve months from now."

Interview with Josh Allen. " I'm not the perfect prospect, I realise I am very polarising in terms of how people see my future as an NFL qb. I am working on getting better with my mechanics and every other aspect of my game. This game is beautifully violent, I am going to continue to play this game. I am not myself when I am not playing football."

Jeremiah called one of his games, Bucky was at his Bowl game early, watching go routes in warm ups before the game ..."scouting crack" as Daniel Jeremiah calls it.

Tough questions from Jeremiah. " I thought you got stuck on your progressions. I also saw you over agressive with your arm strength. Talk me through this" 

Allen's response " I'm sitting here in the pocket ready to get hit, I didn't trust my line enough. Seeing flashes of colour coming at me as the pocket collapses and then I found myself getting out of there with the ball in my hands scrambling, on the run. I worked this past year on staying in the pocket  instead of taking off. Sometimes by the time I get to the second or third read the pocket has collapsed. I'm throwing the ball away more, I've cut down my interceptions dramatically from my first year."

 

Jeremiah asks him against his pooring showing against better competition.

Allen's response..."They've got dept in the power 5. We played some good teams, Iowa had a damn good defense they had some really good players Josh Jackson...Josey Jewell (First Team All American), the best defensive player I have ever played against."

After the interview section is complete, both Bucky and Daniel feel Allen was unusually honest in the interview. Bucky says he is not a hotshot, he is wired right, humble enough to know he has the potential if he has the right people around him .

Bucky thinks Josh Allen in Buffalo might be a long term fit.

Daniel Jeremiah would like to see Allen in the Giants sitting behind Eli another super smart qb.

Bucky also suggests Arizona, putting him behind Bradford and Glennon, he can work on his game over time.

 

 

 

 

[MDL_JET]

Thanks for the summary. I’m scared of Josh Allen but I really hope he doesn’t end up in buffalo or giants with the off chance he becomes something great. 

[Augustiniak]

The more you read about allen the more apparent it is why we moved up.  If the jets tried to trade up after his pro day the cost would have gone up.  The jets are going to get a very good prospect, it's allen or Rosen. And i also think the injury concerns and leadership issues with Rosen are somewhat overblown, anyone can get injured, allen had shoulder issues all season.  

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

After watching as many games of his as I could. His footwork is so sloppy because his arm bails him out. 

If he ever nails down the footwork, and continues to develop on some touch throws, he’s going to be great.

Footwork is literally the Hack ‘if he only’, which is what unnerves me about this.

[Gangrene]

7 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Thanks for the summary. I’m scared of Josh Allen but I really hope he doesn’t end up in buffalo or giants with the off chance he becomes something great. 

Agreed on Buffalo, I think he would probably do well there if they don't rush him.

I think his first year of two of ball might be ugly but long term, I think he's a winner.

For that reason, I don't want to see him with the Giants, they've already got lucky with Manning and his incredible durability.

[Adoni Beast]

42 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Footwork is literally the Hack ‘if he only’, which is what unnerves me about this.

I get it. However, footwork for Hack improved. His problem was mental. When the bullets fly he was shell shocked from his time at Penn State. I remember the lead up to thag draft Ron Jaworski said that when a player starts fearing the rush from constant pummeling, its almost impossible to overcome, ala David Carr. 

[GoingToMyGraveGreen]

1 hour ago, MDL_JET said:

Listened to some of it. I’m starting to be fine if we take him. He may miss some easy throws but I think he’ll be entertaining at the least and really wow us at times. I would just pray he’s consistent. I’d also be scared of him being a total bust but that’s with all the QBs so.....yolo. 

OK - I'm voting Josh Allen....here's why:

For those concerned about his 56.3% completion average...over 20 passes.... he completes just .74 more passes ... 11.26 completions versus 12 (that's not even a full completion)...his average goes to 60%....pretty acceptable in the pros.

Then if he completes 2.74 more passes per 20 throws (14 versus 11.26) his average goes to 70% - PRO BOWL. (not yelling here....just adding emphasis). He's that close.

Do we not think that some professional QB coaching, Red Shirting some/all of his first year and better offensive talent around him cannot get him .74 or 2.74 more completions per 20 passes?...especially with some of his current defects that can be corrected?

I'm more concerned with decisions....interceptions to TDs.....Allen's is 16 TD to 6 INTS...Hey I live in Colorado and I can tell you Wyoming is not a magnet for offensive talent....put good talent around him...good coaching and the JETS have a QB that can sling it in the winter (I grew up on LI - North Merrick) when it is hardest....my choice... Allen

Rosen, like him in many respects but sounds too much like Ryan Leaf to me with his attitude....scares the (fill in the blank) out of me. He may be the most pro ready..but does not have the upside of Allen...

[predator_05]

Allen is a fraud.

Anyone drafting Allen is drafting hot air, otherwise known as "potential". Not proven performance. No incoming QB with his completion % has ever become a successful starter in the history of the NFL draft . They usually make it as back-ups if they're lucky.

He has a big arm, and an average record at the collegiate level. Anyone who thinks he is worthy of a top 10 pick is kidding themselves. At 1.03, you want a finished product, you want somebody that can start week 1. Allen is a project, at best.

If the NFL draft wasnt such a televised circus, Allen would be a 2nd round pick. He is a product of television.

 

[GoingToMyGraveGreen]

Sorry - can't agree with this....although your concern is valid....I'd rather have Allen as a Second rounder....

Data point - Brett Farve - college completion rate (1987 to 1990): 

40.7%, 55.8%, 54.1%, 54.5%.....TD to INt are pretty good until his last year....

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html

 

[Warfish]

Que sera sera....

 

[predator_05]

44 minutes ago, GoingToMyGraveGreen said:

Sorry - can't agree with this....although your concern is valid....I'd rather have Allen as a Second rounder....

Data point - Brett Farve - college completion rate (1987 to 1990): 

40.7%, 55.8%, 54.1%, 54.5%.....TD to INt are pretty good until his last year....

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brett-favre-1.html

 

Allen is the next kyle boller.

[Tinstar]

57 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Allen is the next kyle boller.

Or he could be the next Joe Flacco who used his powerful right arm to help the Ravens win the Super bowl. 

[predator_05]

53 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

Or he could be the next Joe Flacco who used his powerful right arm to help the Ravens win the Super bowl. 

Flacco had a strong career in college and knew how to complete a pass. This guy is literally all hype and no substance.

 

He is the least accomplished QB to ever be picked in the first round. I'm not exaggerating here.

[Gangrene]

1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

Allen is the next kyle boller.

Kyle Boller's college stats  over four years in the Pac 10 are scary bad, 47.8% completion rate 108 passer rating. 1.3 touchdowns to interception rate. This is  significantly worse than even Hackenberg's three years in the Big ten 56% completion rate, 121 passer rating. 1.54 touchdowns to interception.

How Brian Billick could rationalise drafting Boller in the first round is a much greater stretch of wishful thinking than even the stupyfying idea of drafting Hackenberg in the second round.

 

For what it's worth, Josh Allen, 56.2 % completion rate,  137.7 rasseer rating and 2.09 touchdowns to interceptions. 

 

[Charlie Brown]

5 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Thanks for the summary. I’m scared of Josh Allen but I really hope he doesn’t end up in buffalo or giants with the off chance he becomes something great. 

Since Buffalo is the team I next follow (went to School there), if he goes there he will end up being something special.

[jetstream23]

6 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Listened to some of it. I’m starting to be fine if we take him. He may miss some easy throws but I think he’ll be entertaining at the least and really wow us at times. I would just pray he’s consistent. I’d also be scared of him being a total bust but that’s with all the QBs so.....yolo. 

 That should be what it says on the Jets draft card when they run it up… 

 

NEW YORK JETS #3

Josh Allen

yolo mutha fookers!

[Thai Jet]

5 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

Thanks for the summary. I’m scared of Josh Allen but I really hope he doesn’t end up in buffalo or giants with the off chance he becomes something great. 

I think the Bills would love to see him fall to #12. Another Jim Kelly

[Thai Jet]

4 hours ago, predator_05 said:

Allen is a fraud.

Anyone drafting Allen is drafting hot air, otherwise known as "potential". Not proven performance. No incoming QB with his completion % has ever become a successful starter in the history of the NFL draft . They usually make it as back-ups if they're lucky.

He has a big arm, and an average record at the collegiate level. Anyone who thinks he is worthy of a top 10 pick is kidding themselves. At 1.03, you want a finished product, you want somebody that can start week 1. Allen is a project, at best.

If the NFL draft wasnt such a televised circus, Allen would be a 2nd round pick. He is a product of television.

 

    The highlighted section is the only fraud in this conversation.

[Thai Jet]

1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

Flacco had a strong career in college and knew how to complete a pass. This guy is literally all hype and no substance.

 

He is the least accomplished QB to ever be picked in the first round. I'm not exaggerating here.

Gangrene just showed you Kyle Bollers stats that totally dispute what you're saying. Did you miss that post ?

[Scoop24]

3 hours ago, predator_05 said:

Allen is the next kyle boller.

Gotta love hot takes for two players who don’t compare to each other as far as styles go . But I guess every big Arm QB is the same

[predator_05]

18 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

Gotta love hot takes for two players who don’t compare to each other as far as styles go . But I guess every big Arm QB is the same

Except they aren't, in fact, all that different.

 

[Jetsplayer21]

On 3/29/2018 at 5:35 PM, nycdan said:

Amen.  Every time he takes a 5 or god-forbid 7-step drop, you're going to be holding your breath.  I just hope Robby Anderson can keep his sh-t together long enough to be on the field with this kid if we draft him.  Because if he gets matched up with a slower DB, it's gonna get real interesting, one way or another.

Well you have to be an accurate thrower to hit a target, especially a deep 1. Allen is not.

[predator_05]

19 hours ago, Thai Jet said:

    The highlighted section is the only fraud in this conversation.

Here's the list of QBs drafted in the past 15 years with a completion % under 57:

Ryan Lindley

Andrew Walter

Derek Anderson

Christian Hackenberg

Kyle Boller

Javon Snead

Joey Harrington

 

You can waste my time and mention Brett Favre, but he wasn't a top 5 pick.

Josh allen is hackenberg with more hype. He is trash. And i'd be surprised if the Jets draft him

[Thai Jet]

15 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Here's the list of QBs drafted in the past 15 years with a completion % under 57:

Ryan Lindley

Andrew Walter

Derek Anderson

Christian Hackenberg

Kyle Boller

Javon Snead

Joey Harrington

 

You can waste my time and mention Brett Favre, but he wasn't a top 5 pick.

 

You're a total waste of time. I was quoting you and now you  don't even know what you originally said.  You never said top 5. In fact most of these guys you listed here were NOT top 5 picks. In fact Jevan (you spelled it wrong)Snead  wasn't even drafted. WTF ?  Do you even know what your talking about? Doesn't look like it.

[Thai Jet]

21 hours ago, predator_05 said:

Flacco had a strong career in college and knew how to complete a pass. This guy is literally all hype and no substance.

 

He is the least accomplished QB to ever be picked in the first round. I'm not exaggerating here.

LMFAO  

[56mehl56]

54 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

Here's the list of QBs drafted in the past 15 years with a completion % under 57:

Ryan Lindley

Andrew Walter

Derek Anderson

Christian Hackenberg

Kyle Boller

Javon Snead

Joey Harrington

 

You can waste my time and mention Brett Favre, but he wasn't a top 5 pick.

Josh allen is hackenberg with more hype. He is trash. And i'd be surprised if the Jets draft him

Where did those QB's go to school and what was the talent level of the teams they played on. Completion % w/o context is just as valuable of a stat as shoe size. 

[predator_05]

1 hour ago, Thai Jet said:

You're a total waste of time. I was quoting you and now you  don't even know what you originally said.  You never said top 5. In fact most of these guys you listed here were NOT top 5 picks. In fact Jevan (you spelled it wrong)Snead  wasn't even drafted. WTF ?  Do you even know what your talking about? Doesn't look like it.

The focus here is completion %, and body of work in college. Please try and keep up.

[legler82]

2 hours ago, predator_05 said:

The focus here is completion %, and body of work in college. Please try and keep up.

Does taking Wyoming to 2 straight bowl games a feat they haven't done in 3 decades and likely will not do again for another 30 years count as part of the body of work in college?  How about going 8-3 this past season with a supporting cast that lost to San Jose St when was hurt and out of the line-up.  The same San Jose St that won only 1 other game against the mighty Cal Poly a non-major LOL on their way to a 2-11 record.  

[Thai Jet]

1 hour ago, legler82 said:

Does taking Wyoming to 2 straight bowl games a feat they haven't done in 3 decades and likely will not do again for another 30 years count as part of the body of work in college?  How about going 8-3 this past season with a supporting cast that lost to mighty San Jose St when was hurt and out of the line-up.  The same San Jose St that won only 1 other game against the might Cal Poly a non-major LOL on their way to a 2-11 record.  

Apparently that doesn't count. What a knucklehead.