NY Jets Trade Christian Hackenberg

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Apologies? Yeah, when pigs fly. This is the internet, remember? Double-down, distort the record, or disappear. Internet rules in a nutshell.

P.S. the biggest takeaway from the Hack trade? Jets think Bridgewater is healthy.

Could be. I think this has zero to do with Bridgewater. They were trying to trade Hackenberg since the draft (if not sooner) -- as in, before Bridgewater took any minicamp reps, and I think it was reported he was still doing some rehab a month ago. 

This is: 

1. a salary dump

2. a PR means to keep Hackenberg's name out of the local papers by June, so it's all feel-good talk about Darnold as he's developing, and feel-good stories about McCown (and possibly Bridgewater) along the way. 

3. a means to eliminate possible added depth chart confusion, should Hackenberg suddenly look surprisingly better in spring reps (this reason being a dumb one)

If Darnold looks decent by summer's end at the latest, and Bridgewater is 98% healthy, I think Teddy gets traded - to recoup a pick and save another $5m for next year - and they find some UDFA/schmo to be the #3. 

[NoBowles]

7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think the obsessing is because:

1. It's news. It'll fade, eventually. Probably won't fully go away, nor should it, but once he's out of Jets news and Darnold starts playing the whole exercise will hopefully be a means to an end.

2. A solid two years of obsessive finger-wagging from those who believed in him, with endless snotty sarcasm along the lines of "The geniuses here think they know more than Macc LOLOLOL!!!"

3. Said finger-waggers from reason two want to obsess over blame for his failure being squarely placed on Todd Bowles (bad HC that he is in his own right). 

Everyone takes blame for this failure, including Hackenberg. But to ignore the org failure is not right either. Wanting him to win the job, and developing him are not the same thing. 

Just look at the facts.

1) The kid was at best a project who had developed some very bad habits as a QB, and was questionable at best to ever be able to fix them.

2) The first year he was here, was with a disgruntled OC who came out and said I don't want to fix his mechanics flaws during the season. Well, he could have done that much earlier at rookie and OTA's, but chose not to. Hackenberg still had to learn that offense which would ultimately not be the same one he would work in the next year.

3) Disgruntled OC is gone after his first year, takes parting shots at Hackenberg on way out, whom he did nothing to try to develop. Total waste of year 1.

4) Offseason on his own, has to try to fix his mechanics and does try to work with someone to do that.

5) 2nd season a new OC comes in and has to install a new offense for the whole team. Now Hackenberg has to try to learn a 3rd system in 4 years, while working on his mechanics in real situations.

Hackenberg failed, and plenty of that is on him, plenty. But I don't care about him, I care about the Jets. Good organizations are like good companies, they work together and plan things out. I just don't see the plan in drafting a relatively high (2nd) round QB who needs a ton of work, and then not having a legitimate plan in place to groom him. For those who say they did everything they can, tell me where I am wrong above.

It was a stupid pick by Mac, and an awful job by Bowles. The two of them suck and never should have been allowed to try again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, same on me.

I pray they learned from this and put Darnold in a good position to succeed, but I don't think this FO is competent.

I know you hate Mac, and its well warranted, but IMO this runs much deeper than Mac. The power structure is what allowed this to happen, it all starts at the top. We have a dip sh*t owner, a dip sh*t GM and a dip sh*t HC.

Lets hope they are at least learning on  the job and get it right this time around. The stakes are much higher than Hackenberg this time around.

[Sperm Edwards]

50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We should have never drafted him, especially not where we took him, and pretty much every poster here said as much at the moment it happened.  When JN posters know more than the guy who has one of the 32 most important jobs in a multi-billion dollar industry, that's just sad. 

It's not crying over spilled milk.  It's crying over total incompetence by our GM.  We didn't whiff on a guy who had a shot to be successful.  We whiffed on a guy who had almost literally 0 mathematical chance to succeed in the league, and used a 2nd round pick for that privilege. 

It's worse than that. People keep saying it was just a 2nd round pick but it wasn't. It was this belief that we could get Hack in round 3 (or at worst, reach into round 2) that caused Macc to pass up on moving up for Wentz. This was his 1B decision that negated the need to move up. How quickly people forget the Jets were just as much in must-draft-a-QB-early mode in 2016 as they were in 2018. 

What was even dumber about it was not just the over-evaluation of Hackenberg, nor the under-evaluation of Wentz (or even Goff), but how neatly this would have discarded the Fitzpatrick negotiations still very much hanging over their heads. On the roster were Geno, Petty, and no one. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

YESSS!!!!!

 

Lucky charm. Overcoming horrendously poor management. All one in the same really. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Everyone takes blame for this failure, including Hackenberg. But to ignore the org failure is not right either. Wanting him to win the job, and developing him are not the same thing. 

Just look at the facts.

1) The kid was at best a project who had developed some very bad habits as a QB, and was questionable at best to ever be able to fix them.

2) The first year he was here, was with a disgruntled OC who came out and said I don't want to fix his mechanics flaws during the season. Well, he could have done that much earlier at rookie and OTA's, but chose not to. Hackenberg still had to learn that offense which would ultimately not be the same one he would work in the next year.

3) Disgruntled OC is gone after his first year, takes parting shots at Hackenberg on way out, whom he did nothing to try to develop. Total waste of year 1.

4) Offseason on his own, has to try to fix his mechanics and does try to work with someone to do that.

5) 2nd season a new OC comes in and has to install a new offense for the whole team. Now Hackenberg has to try to learn a 3rd system in 4 years, while working on his mechanics in real situations.

Hackenberg failed, and plenty of that is on him, plenty. But I don't care about him, I care about the Jets. Good organizations are like good companies, they work together and plan things out. I just don't see the plan in drafting a relatively high (2nd) round QB who needs a ton of work, and then not having a legitimate plan in place to groom him. For those who say they did everything they can, tell me where I am wrong above.

It was a stupid pick by Mac, and an awful job by Bowles. The two of them suck and never should have been allowed to try again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, same on me.

I pray they learned from this and put Darnold in a good position to succeed, but I don't think this FO is competent.

I know you hate Mac, and its well warranted, but IMO this runs much deeper than Mac. The power structure is what allowed this to happen, it all starts at the top. We have a dip sh*t owner, a dip sh*t GM and a dip sh*t HC.

Lets hope they are at least learning on  the job and get it right this time around. The stakes are much higher than Hackenberg this time around.

I don't take blame for this failure. I am a shining beacon of wisdom. 

Seems I touched a nerve, though.  

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't take blame for this failure. I am a shining beacon of wisdom. 

sorry, your right, everyone except for you.

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, RoadFan said:

They did give him many chances in practice, and some in preseason.   He was so horrible, they wouldn't dare give him a regular season snap.  He certainly never earned it. 

The Jets coaching staff is flawed, but it is clear that they, along with some players, feel that he has no business being on an NFL roster. 

I still don't understand how some of you haven't seen enough, even with your own eyes at Penn State and in pre-season, to believe that?

 

Here is the issue the lovely 'he has not earned it'  all the while the same coaching staff kept trotting out guys like mo wilk and revis who were hugely paid and a total disgrace and in no way better than the udfa on the depth chart behind them.

No one really gets that big question answered about them until they get some kind of shot in a reg season game.

I say this as one of the biggest anti hack draft pick people on here.  No reason in the world not to play him at least in that last game to be sure seeing as petty was stinking it up anyway.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Beerfish said:

Here is the issue the lovely 'he has not earned it'  all the while the same coaching staff kept trotting out guys like mo wilk and revis who were hugely paid and a total disgrace and in no way better than the udfa on the depth chart behind them.

No one really gets that big question answered about them until they get some kind of shot in a reg season game.

I say this as one of the biggest anti hack draft pick people on here.  No reason in the world not to play him at least in that last game to be sure seeing as petty was stinking it up anyway.

I wonder what other stories will come out now that he's off the team. 

Wouldn't be surprised in the coming days/weeks to read some stories about him being a moody, whiny douche, how he didn't know the playbook, and for two years tried to get by just on his size & natural arm strength alone. 

If - and it is an if - that was the scenario, then no he shouldn't have been put into a game. If he was so terrible in practice and the whole team could see it, a coach on the hot seat isn't going to lose his locker room emotionally weeks before he finds out his own fate. And I say this as no fan of Bowles as the team's HC. 

[#27TheDominator]

While everyone is stating their theories, I will submit mine:

Hackenberg was drafted to start in 2016.  I believe that they felt he was physically ready to play and would hold up.  I think all the scouting was to determine if he would pick things up quickly enough.  Gailey was noted as a guy that would adapt and make lemonade out of lemons.  He ran a successful NFL offense with Kordell Stewart.

Hackenberg did not look good and Petty was obviously not the answer.  The redshirt analysis started.  Players were openly begging for Fitzpatrick to come back.  They had to run out and overpay Fitzpatrick.  Fitzpatrick and the Jets had each issued a last best offer.  The Jets blinked.

I think this analysis makes as much sense as most around here, however...

There are several things that indicate it isn't entirely accurate.  Bowles "named" Fitzpatrick the starter before he was under contract.  The players were lobbying for Fitzpatrick plenty early.  Also, if they really didn't expect Fitzpatrick back they should have signed a proper vet, stiff or not -  a Hoyer-ish guy.  They didn't.  

IMO, the truth is somewhere in between.  I think they drafted Hack to give him a shot.  I think they looked at Fitzpatrick as a fall-back option that would be able to walk in off the street and have another good season.  If Hackenberg looked even remotely good, they could force Fitzpatrick's hand on the contract.  The music had stopped and he didn't have any other chairs to sit in.  Problem was the Jets didn't have an ass for the seat.  Worst cases all the way around.   

[Alka]

47 minutes ago, KRL said:

Good luck to Hackenberg, hopefully he can get his career on track in OAK/LV.
But if he points fingers and blame at everybody else for his failures he's
doomed.  Let's not re-write history, Hackenberg was given the full off-season
of 2017 to win the job and he couldn't.  After an encouraging opener against TEN
he got exposed for his lack of understanding of protections every game after that.
And when a QB can't figure out his protection and where to go with the ball he
can end up in the hospital every time the ball is snapped.  The pick was a
failure but at least Maccagnan didn't drag it out any longer.  And if he learned
when evaluating a player not to ignore his tape then maybe we got saved from
picking Josh Allen this year 

Not only did Hackenberg not win the job at QB for 2017, he couldn't even win the back-up QB job.  And I can promise you that if we kept 4 qB's last year, he wouldn't be able to win the back-up to the back-up QB job. He was horrible.  The worst I've seen in many, many years.

[C Mart]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's worse than that. People keep saying it was just a 2nd round pick but it wasn't. It was this belief that we could get Hack in round 3 (or at worst, reach into round 2) that caused Macc to pass up on moving up for Wentz. This was his 1B decision that negated the need to move up. How quickly people forget the Jets were just as much in must-draft-a-QB-early mode in 2016 as they were in 2018. 

What was even dumber about it was not just the over-evaluation of Hackenberg, nor the under-evaluation of Wentz (or even Goff), but how neatly this would have discarded the Fitzpatrick negotiations still very much hanging over their heads. On the roster were Geno, Petty, and no one. 

PROLOGUE

Maccagnan spent the weeks leading up to his final draft as Texans college scouting director traveling with GM Rick Smith, head coach Bill O’Brien and QBs coach George Godsey to vet a 2014 quarterback class over which there was much disagreement league-wide—UCF’s Blake Bortles, Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel, Louisville’s Teddy Bridgewater and Fresno State’s Derek Carr headed the group

Just before the draft, Maccagnan’s wife, Betty, chimed in. She saw Bridgewater on TV and said to her husband, “I like that guy.” Why? She’d watched TV interviews, and said he came off as a good kid. Maccagnan went to the Texans’ video team and asked if they could pull that footage. And he took a lesson: With quarterbacks, who are basically management-level employees of NFL teams, every little piece of info can help.

That came with Maccagnan when he was hired as GM of the Jets in January 2015, and it’s not as if he wasn’t looking for what he landed this past April in his first three years with the Jets. He and his staff liked Oregon’s Marcus Mariota in 2015, but neither the Buccaneers nor the Titans were open to moving out of their spots. The next year the Jets had eyes for Cal’s Jared Goff, but they were picking 20th, and Maccagnan was principled about not selling the farm for any prospect this side of Andrew Luck.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/16/new-york-jets-sam-darnold-2018-draft

[Sperm Edwards]

30 minutes ago, C Mart said:

PROLOGUE

Maccagnan spent the weeks leading up to his final draft as Texans college scouting director traveling with GM Rick Smith, head coach Bill O’Brien and QBs coach George Godsey to vet a 2014 quarterback class over which there was much disagreement league-wide—UCF’s Blake Bortles, Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel, Louisville’s Teddy Bridgewater and Fresno State’s Derek Carr headed the group

Just before the draft, Maccagnan’s wife, Betty, chimed in. She saw Bridgewater on TV and said to her husband, “I like that guy.” Why? She’d watched TV interviews, and said he came off as a good kid. Maccagnan went to the Texans’ video team and asked if they could pull that footage. And he took a lesson: With quarterbacks, who are basically management-level employees of NFL teams, every little piece of info can help.

That came with Maccagnan when he was hired as GM of the Jets in January 2015, and it’s not as if he wasn’t looking for what he landed this past April in his first three years with the Jets. He and his staff liked Oregon’s Marcus Mariota in 2015, but neither the Buccaneers nor the Titans were open to moving out of their spots. The next year the Jets had eyes for Cal’s Jared Goff, but they were picking 20th, and Maccagnan was principled about not selling the farm for any prospect this side of Andrew Luck.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/16/new-york-jets-sam-darnold-2018-draft

Way to tell less than half the story. But that's what fluff pieces do. 

There were only 2 worthwhile prospects in the 2015 draft, so let's go with that. There was also the option of trading for Kirk Cousins - whom he just offered some $100m guaranteed - who was being dangled and was still RGIII's backup. I'm not going to clobber him if the pricetag was 5 #1 picks or something absurd for Mariota, but a QB search for 3 seasons was not a binary choice between "Mariota only if we can get him cheaply, otherwise wait until year 4 to bring in someone serious" so his stupidity didn't end there. So any examination of the "principled" (lol) Maccagnan has to include passing on a QB he liked, with NFL experience, who was only a 3rd rounder before showing he wasn't a total wasted pick of a QB (unlike the two Macc would make himself in successive drafts).

This revisionist, after-the-fact fluff piece takes it's selective inclusion/exclusion of history from interviewing Macc after the 2018 draft, looking to gloss over his own past after Darnold unexpectedly fell to #3. Absent from this whitewashed history is how he refused to trade then-unsigned Mo for less than his delusional idea of Mo's value in a move up, rather than what the trade market stated his value was for 3 consecutive offseasons.

The #1 pick was there for the taking, and as much as you'd like to lament the supposed impossibility moving all the way up from #20, the Rams moved all the way up from #15 and didn't have a Mo Wilkerson to offer in trade. 

Goff and Wentz were there for the taking 2 full years ago. The teams that took them are SB champs and SB contenders. Instead he drafted Hackenberg, extended Mo, re-signed Fitz, and added more chapters to the lore of Jets GM idiocy. To Macc, "the farm" was that trio of embarrassment, plus 2 straight 5-win seasons that show the folly of his "principled" decisions.

[C Mart]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Way to tell less than half the story. But that's what fluff pieces do. 

There were only 2 worthwhile prospects in the 2015 draft, so let's go with that. There was also the option of trading for Kirk Cousins - whom he just offered some $100m guaranteed - who was being dangled and was still RGIII's backup. I'm not going to clobber him if the pricetag was 5 #1 picks or something absurd for Mariota, but a QB search for 3 seasons was not a binary choice between "Mariota only if we can get him cheaply, otherwise wait until year 4 to bring in someone serious" so his stupidity didn't end there. So any examination of the "principled" (lol) Maccagnan has to include passing on a QB he liked, with NFL experience, who was only a 3rd rounder before showing he wasn't a total wasted pick of a QB (unlike the two Macc would make himself in successive drafts).

This revisionist, after-the-fact fluff piece takes it's selective inclusion/exclusion of history from interviewing Macc after the 2018 draft, looking to gloss over his own past after Darnold unexpectedly fell to #3. Absent from this whitewashed history is how he refused to trade then-unsigned Mo for less than his delusional idea of Mo's value in a move up, rather than what the trade market stated his value was for 3 consecutive offseasons.

The #1 pick was there for the taking, and as much as you'd like to lament the supposed impossibility moving all the way up from #20, the Rams moved all the way up from #15 and didn't have a Mo Wilkerson to offer in trade. 

Goff and Wentz were there for the taking 2 full years ago. The teams that took them are SB champs and SB contenders. Instead he drafted Hackenberg, extended Mo, re-signed Fitz, and added more chapters to the lore of Jets GM idiocy. To Macc, "the farm" was that trio of embarrassment, plus 2 straight 5-win seasons that show the folly of his "principled" decisions.

way to tell what?   you said, "nor the under-evaluation of Wentz (or even Goff), " All I pointed out was they didn't undervalue them. Whether you believe it or not (LOL) is up to you..

It was reported after Geno was punched out Macc did try to trade for Cousin but was rebuffed by Wash. I don't recall what was offered or if it even got that far. 

please become the Jets GM..Please! Please!

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, C Mart said:

PROLOGUE

Maccagnan spent the weeks leading up to his final draft as Texans college scouting director traveling with GM Rick Smith, head coach Bill O’Brien and QBs coach George Godsey to vet a 2014 quarterback class over which there was much disagreement league-wide—UCF’s Blake Bortles, Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel, Louisville’s Teddy Bridgewater and Fresno State’s Derek Carr headed the group

Just before the draft, Maccagnan’s wife, Betty, chimed in. She saw Bridgewater on TV and said to her husband, “I like that guy.” Why? She’d watched TV interviews, and said he came off as a good kid. Maccagnan went to the Texans’ video team and asked if they could pull that footage. And he took a lesson: With quarterbacks, who are basically management-level employees of NFL teams, every little piece of info can help.

That came with Maccagnan when he was hired as GM of the Jets in January 2015, and it’s not as if he wasn’t looking for what he landed this past April in his first three years with the Jets. He and his staff liked Oregon’s Marcus Mariota in 2015, but neither the Buccaneers nor the Titans were open to moving out of their spots. The next year the Jets had eyes for Cal’s Jared Goff, but they were picking 20th, and Maccagnan was principled about not selling the farm for any prospect this side of Andrew Luck.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/16/new-york-jets-sam-darnold-2018-draft

But he "sold the farm" for Mayfield/Darnold/Allen/Rosen?  Whichever one the Browns and Giants didn't want? 

#6, #37, #49 + next year's 2nd vs. #8, #77, #100, next year's 1st and a 2nd 2 years from now.  I will ignore the next year's 4th Philly got back. I can see how giving up the additional 1st seems like a big deal, but the Jets intentionally took a season off to make that deal. 

[sourceworx]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I wonder what other stories will come out now that he's off the team. 

Wouldn't be surprised in the coming days/weeks to read some stories about him being a moody, whiny douche, how he didn't know the playbook, and for two years tried to get by just on his size & natural arm strength alone. 

If - and it is an if - that was the scenario, then no he shouldn't have been put into a game. If he was so terrible in practice and the whole team could see it, a coach on the hot seat isn't going to lose his locker room emotionally weeks before he finds out his own fate. And I say this as no fan of Bowles as the team's HC. 

It's possible the bolded part above is true. He kind of threw the coaches under the bus yesterday. Even if the coaches did literally nothing to help him develop (and I don't believe that is true), the fact that he put that out there reflects poorly on him. Also I remember there were some reports that he turned some teams off during his pre-draft interviews because he blamed his coaches at PSU for his poor play. So there is definitely some smoke there.

On another note, for all of the talk about his mechanics and accuracy, I thought he showed a lot of improvement in that area last year. The considerably larger issue that he has is his inability to recognize blitzes and adjust protections. In the preseason games, rushers were coming in unblocked far too often, and he was getting clobbered. As soon as Petty would replace him, suddenly no one came in unblocked anymore. I think that's more than just mere coincidence. This was a huge issue for him at PSU, and it carried over to his time with the Jets. 

If you go back and watch the Gruden QB camp episode, Gruden pointed that problem out. Obviously he thinks he can fix it.

[C Mart]

12 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

But he "sold the farm" for Mayfield/Darnold/Allen/Rosen?  Whichever one the Browns and Giants didn't want? 

#6, #37, #49 + next year's 2nd vs. #8, #77, #100, next year's 1st and a 2nd 2 years from now.  I will ignore the next year's 4th Philly got back. I can see how giving up the additional 1st seems like a big deal, but the Jets intentionally took a season off to make that deal. 

Philly went from 15 to 2...what would have been the cost 20 to 2? If Clev even wanted to go down that far

MID- TO LATE JANUARY 2017

The tear-down’s coming and everyone knows it—the Jets have franchise-shifting decisions to make. One is what to do at quarterback. So Maccagnan sets his staff out with the task of breaking down not just 2017 draft prospects such as Mitch Trubisky, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes and DeShone Kizer, but also those a year off, like Rosen, Allen and Darnold.

The conclusion by the 2017 Senior Bowl: We’re fine waiting. It isn’t so much that the prospects aren’t great. It’s more that the Jets are focused on rebuilding their locker-room culture from the ground up, and, picking sixth overall, they like the strength of the 2017 class at other positions. So the team will sign Josh McCown and give the Christian Hackenberg experiment (the Penn State QB had been taken in the second round in ’16) another year.

APRIL 27, 2017

The Jets select LSU safety Jamal Adams with that sixth pick. Adams, like USC defensive lineman Leonard Williams in 2015, is a player Maccagnan never thought would fall to him, so the call was academic. Adams’s leadership—“a culture changer”—was lauded by the staff in Baton Rouge in a very rare way, and that will be a piece of the puzzle in how they assess the next year’s quarterbacks.

Sticking to the plan as it was set out, quarterback is never much of a consideration in the first round here, as it would have been with Mariota in 2015 or Goff in 2016.

[56mehl56]

12 hours ago, RobR said:

I'm not a big Bowles fan but he couldn't play him because he's a borderline CFL caliber player that will more than likely result in us getting no compensation. That is on Mac. 

I guess the same could be said of Mo , Sheldon , and any of the other top picks Bowles couldn't get anything useful out of.  Its easy to criticize Hack as being so bad he couldn't see the filed. Its not as easy to look at how recent top drafted players developed under Bowles watch.

[C Mart]

22 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I guess the same could be said of Mo , Sheldon , and any of the other top picks Bowles couldn't get anything useful out of.  Its easy to criticize Hack as being so bad he couldn't see the filed. Its not as easy to look at how recent top drafted players developed under Bowles watch.

But Mo had his best season in 2015 and Shelly didn't do anything special w/Seattle last yr

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Philly went from 15 to 2...what would have been the cost 20 to 2? If Clev even wanted to go down that far

MID- TO LATE JANUARY 2017

The tear-down’s coming and everyone knows it—the Jets have franchise-shifting decisions to make. One is what to do at quarterback. So Maccagnan sets his staff out with the task of breaking down not just 2017 draft prospects such as Mitch Trubisky, Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes and DeShone Kizer, but also those a year off, like Rosen, Allen and Darnold.

The conclusion by the 2017 Senior Bowl: We’re fine waiting. It isn’t so much that the prospects aren’t great. It’s more that the Jets are focused on rebuilding their locker-room culture from the ground up, and, picking sixth overall, they like the strength of the 2017 class at other positions. So the team will sign Josh McCown and give the Christian Hackenberg experiment (the Penn State QB had been taken in the second round in ’16) another year.

APRIL 27, 2017

The Jets select LSU safety Jamal Adams with that sixth pick. Adams, like USC defensive lineman Leonard Williams in 2015, is a player Maccagnan never thought would fall to him, so the call was academic. Adams’s leadership—“a culture changer”—was lauded by the staff in Baton Rouge in a very rare way, and that will be a piece of the puzzle in how they assess the next year’s quarterbacks.

Sticking to the plan as it was set out, quarterback is never much of a consideration in the first round here, as it would have been with Mariota in 2015 or Goff in 2016.

Philly went from 13 to 8 to 2.  The deal I posted above is what got them from 8.  To get to 8 from 13 they traded Maxwell, and Alonso.   Guess the Jets could not have made that deal because they wouldn't deal with the Dolphins.

The Rams went from 15 to 1.  They gave up 15, 43, 45, 76, next year's 1st and 3rd.  They got back 1, 113, and 177. They also got their choice and didn't have to get lucky (or not) with the two choices made ahead of them.

[C Mart]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Philly went from 13 to 8 to 2.  The deal I posted above is what got them from 8.  To get to 8 from 13 they traded Maxwell, and Alonso.   Guess the Jets could not have made that deal because they wouldn't deal with the Dolphins.

The Rams went from 15 to 1.  They gave up 15, 43, 45, 76, next year's 1st and 3rd.  They got back 1, 113, and 177. They also got their choice and didn't have to get lucky (or not) with the two choices made ahead of them.

Ok..got it. thnx

at this point I don't understand why Mcc is even being questioned/criticized for the trade. Didn't seem that was the opinion when it was made in march. 

No GM, ever! has hit on every pick. Isn't it regarded that if you get 2-3 per draft class you've done well?

They took a swing at Hack, at the most important position, and it didn't work out for whatever reasons. plural. 

To include WR D.Smith isn't fair or accurate since he's been injured (after not being injured in college)..That's how it goes sometimes.

[batman10023]

14 hours ago, C Mart said:

Duh. It’s in the CBA. And I think that runs three more years? Maybe 4. 

sure in the next CBA..  not now.

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Ok..got it. thnx

at this point I don't understand why Mcc is even being questioned/criticized for the trade. Didn't seem that was the opinion when it was made in march. 

No GM, ever! has hit on every pick. Isn't it regarded that if you get 2-3 per draft class you've done well?

They took a swing at Hack, at the most important position, and it didn't work out for whatever reasons. plural. 

To include WR D.Smith isn't fair or accurate since he's been injured (after not being injured in college)..That's how it goes sometimes.

I don't think anybody is criticizing the trade to 3.  We are criticizing the fear of being fleeced that caused him to do nothing in 2015, 2016 and 2017 - save for Petty and Hackenberg. 

[C Mart]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

While everyone is stating their theories, I will submit mine:

Hackenberg was drafted to start in 2016.  I believe that they felt he was physically ready to play and would hold up.  I think all the scouting was to determine if he would pick things up quickly enough.  Gailey was noted as a guy that would adapt and make lemonade out of lemons.  He ran a successful NFL offense with Kordell Stewart.

Hackenberg did not look good and Petty was obviously not the answer.  The redshirt analysis started.  Players were openly begging for Fitzpatrick to come back.  They had to run out and overpay Fitzpatrick.  Fitzpatrick and the Jets had each issued a last best offer.  The Jets blinked.

I think this analysis makes as much sense as most around here, however...

There are several things that indicate it isn't entirely accurate.  Bowles "named" Fitzpatrick the starter before he was under contract.  The players were lobbying for Fitzpatrick plenty early.  Also, if they really didn't expect Fitzpatrick back they should have signed a proper vet, stiff or not -  a Hoyer-ish guy.  They didn't.  

IMO, the truth is somewhere in between.  I think they drafted Hack to give him a shot.  I think they looked at Fitzpatrick as a fall-back option that would be able to walk in off the street and have another good season.  If Hackenberg looked even remotely good, they could force Fitzpatrick's hand on the contract.  The music had stopped and he didn't have any other chairs to sit in.  Problem was the Jets didn't have an ass for the seat.  Worst cases all the way around.   

I'll just disagree. Mcc told him when he called him draft night that they were going to invest time in him. You may take it as May - Aug as "time" but to pick a guy #51 that was broken down to begin with and play him yr 1 is unrealistic. IF he miraculously became a Marino then great

JMO he was drafted on his fresh yr performance (in pro style O) and potential. He's physically the prototypical QB ie size, arm, he can move, reportedly smart etc..The hope was that he develop and would show signs in 2017. Fair or not (that's the nfl) learning a WCO didn't help him last season. 

But he didn't develop as much as they hoped (it happens). But they could no longer wait to see if he could take it to the next level. 

I recall one of the last pressers Bates had last yr. He was asked how the young QBs were progressing. He said something to the affect that they coach them up to get them ready each week, they are working hard etc...And we'll finish our evaluations at the end of the season and make our decisions for next yr. Something to that affect

Once they signed Josh & Teddy and drafted Darnold that pretty much sealed it. All that was left was to see just how healthy Teddy was/is. The past two weeks the OTAs were just for each side of the ball only, no O vs D..So they've seen some of Teddy, Hack etc..

They obviously feel confident in Teddy. To keep Hack around at this point isn't serving him or the Jets any good. The media articles and questions would continue, "when will Hack get a chance, how does he look throwing (against air) w/his "new' motion, what are the TC/PS plans for reps" etc...

And I was holding out hope for Hack. I would think every Jets fan would have. As for his comments yesterday. He's a 23 yr old guy who has been hearing and reading how much he sucks since he got here without ever criticizing anyone. JMO he knew he was done here (for all we know the Jets had talked to him or his agent about their plans for him) and he was just disappointed and frustrated that it didn't work out. 

[Dcronin]

21 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

His comments today is why now.

Which were...sorry, missed them.

[ZachEY]

Since we're moving in on the "What Happened" theories:

!!!HOT TAKE ALERT!!!

Bad college football player did not become good NFL football player.

[bostonmajet]

3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

But he "sold the farm" for Mayfield/Darnold/Allen/Rosen?  Whichever one the Browns and Giants didn't want? 

#6, #37, #49 + next year's 2nd vs. #8, #77, #100, next year's 1st and a 2nd 2 years from now.  I will ignore the next year's 4th Philly got back. I can see how giving up the additional 1st seems like a big deal, but the Jets intentionally took a season off to make that deal. 

I don't mean to pick a fight, but if I think it is fair to say that if you think 3 2nd's is selling the farm, not sure what you would call what we would have had to give up to trade all the way up for a QB we would be happy with...

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

I don't mean to pick a fight, but if I think it is fair to say that if you think 3 2nd's is selling the farm, not sure what you would call what we would have had to give up to trade all the way up for a QB we would be happy with...

Do you see the quotes?  That wasn't my phrase.  

[SMC]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Since we're moving in on the "What Happened" theories:

!!!HOT TAKE ALERT!!!

Bad college football player did not become good NFL football player.

Exactly.

Macc gambled (and lost) on Hack's freshman year being the norm, rather that the 2 sucky subsequent seasons.  It turned out the freshman year was the aberration.

Performance against amateurs shouldn't get much stock in the evaluation process unless the player is bad against amateurs, which Hack clearly was his last 2 seasons.  Frankly, I've never seen a prospect that sucked in college drafted so high.

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, SMC said:

Exactly.

Macc gambled (and lost) on Hack's freshman year being the norm, rather that the 2 sucky subsequent seasons.  It turned out the freshman year was the aberration.

 Performance against amateurs shouldn't get much stock in the evaluation process unless the player is bad against amateurs, which Hack clearly was his last 2 seasons.  Frankly, I've never seen a prospect that sucked in college drafted so high.

PFF, who called him "undraftable" even said his freshman year wasn't very good by their measures.  An overly simplistic look at the data shows Hack's freshman year was pretty much just throwing the ball up to Allen Robinson.  Robinson accounts for something like more than the next 7 targets combined, yards wise.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, C Mart said:

way to tell what?   you said, "nor the under-evaluation of Wentz (or even Goff), " All I pointed out was they didn't undervalue them. Whether you believe it or not (LOL) is up to you..

It was reported after Geno was punched out Macc did try to trade for Cousin but was rebuffed by Wash. I don't recall what was offered or if it even got that far. 

please become the Jets GM..Please! Please!

If he didn't pull the trigger, then he undervalued him and Wentz both. He undervalued him precisely because he felt Hackenberg wasn't much of a downgrade as a prospect, and they'd be able to draft him probably in round 3 (until Houston leapfrogging us spooked him into taking him in round 2).

I was referring to trading for Cousins before the '15 draft, not in August when Washington was already getting antsy with Griffin and it was too late for them to find a serviceable backup. That's when they were shopping him - when they could still draft or acquire another #2 themselves - not a month before the season.

As much as it would lead to better success, I can't be the Jets' GM. They only hire incompetent people who are wrong a solid 90% of the time or more.   

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, sourceworx said:

It's possible the bolded part above is true. He kind of threw the coaches under the bus yesterday. Even if the coaches did literally nothing to help him develop (and I don't believe that is true), the fact that he put that out there reflects poorly on him. Also I remember there were some reports that he turned some teams off during his pre-draft interviews because he blamed his coaches at PSU for his poor play. So there is definitely some smoke there.

On another note, for all of the talk about his mechanics and accuracy, I thought he showed a lot of improvement in that area last year. The considerably larger issue that he has is his inability to recognize blitzes and adjust protections. In the preseason games, rushers were coming in unblocked far too often, and he was getting clobbered. As soon as Petty would replace him, suddenly no one came in unblocked anymore. I think that's more than just mere coincidence. This was a huge issue for him at PSU, and it carried over to his time with the Jets. 

If you go back and watch the Gruden QB camp episode, Gruden pointed that problem out. Obviously he thinks he can fix it.

Yeah, maybe.

I would say there's a difference between differences of opinion in his handling and outright lies. One of the two - Bowles or Hackenberg - is outright lying (regarding his offseason working on his mechanics). Hackenberg seemed believable, as his defense invited an "ask anyone - the entire team knew" prodding to reporters. But just because it seems that way initially doesn't make it so. Could be he's full of it and Bowles isn't. Only they know. 

[Maxman]

If they combined Hack's arm with Petty's brain they would still need to find a starting QB.

[SMC]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

PFF, who called him "undraftable" even said his freshman year wasn't very good by their measures.  An overly simplistic look at the data shows Hack's freshman year was pretty much just throwing the ball up to Allen Robinson.  Robinson accounts for something like more than the next 7 targets combined, yards wise.

Exactly.  And PFF wasn't alone.  There was a report that many teams also had Hack as undraftable.  It was an incredible wiff by Macc. 

But if things work out with Darnold, no one is going to remember the Hack mistake. People remember that Jerry Krause drafted Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant in the 1987 draft, but forget that he drafted 1st round lottery bust Brad Sellers the year before.

[C Mart]

Raiders waive 2015 round two pick CB  Senquez Golson to make room for 2016 round two pick Christian Hackenberg.  

 

Golson being the odd man out is kind noteworthy considering he was a 2nd round pick in 2015 by the Steelers and was just signed by the Raiders on April 6; less than two months ago.

He still has yet to play an NFL game. A series of serious injuries kept him off the field for three seasons in Pittsburgh. Last season he spent time on the Buccaneers practice squad and had hoped to finally get healthy and earn a roster spot with the Raiders. Those hopes have likely came to an end.

Hackenberg’s addition gives the Raiders four quarterbacks on the roster along with Derek Carr, EJ Manuel, and Connor Cook.

[batman10023]

10 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Way to tell less than half the story. But that's what fluff pieces do. 

There were only 2 worthwhile prospects in the 2015 draft, so let's go with that. There was also the option of trading for Kirk Cousins - whom he just offered some $100m guaranteed - who was being dangled and was still RGIII's backup. I'm not going to clobber him if the pricetag was 5 #1 picks or something absurd for Mariota, but a QB search for 3 seasons was not a binary choice between "Mariota only if we can get him cheaply, otherwise wait until year 4 to bring in someone serious" so his stupidity didn't end there. So any examination of the "principled" (lol) Maccagnan has to include passing on a QB he liked, with NFL experience, who was only a 3rd rounder before showing he wasn't a total wasted pick of a QB (unlike the two Macc would make himself in successive drafts).

This revisionist, after-the-fact fluff piece takes it's selective inclusion/exclusion of history from interviewing Macc after the 2018 draft, looking to gloss over his own past after Darnold unexpectedly fell to #3. Absent from this whitewashed history is how he refused to trade then-unsigned Mo for less than his delusional idea of Mo's value in a move up, rather than what the trade market stated his value was for 3 consecutive offseasons.

The #1 pick was there for the taking, and as much as you'd like to lament the supposed impossibility moving all the way up from #20, the Rams moved all the way up from #15 and didn't have a Mo Wilkerson to offer in trade. 

Goff and Wentz were there for the taking 2 full years ago. The teams that took them are SB champs and SB contenders. Instead he drafted Hackenberg, extended Mo, re-signed Fitz, and added more chapters to the lore of Jets GM idiocy. To Macc, "the farm" was that trio of embarrassment, plus 2 straight 5-win seasons that show the folly of his "principled" decisions.

Could we have traded up for Goff?  What would it have cost us?