Scott Dierking Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 8 hours ago, dbatesman said: I also don’t think the ability to cover can be “molded” by experience. Either you can do it or you can’t. That would be patently incorrect. Your premise would seem to indicate that covering is only a physical trait (something that would seemingly have less ability to change based on circumstance) Untrue. "Covering" also has to do with instinct, timing and technique. All those qualities CAN be learned and improved. Does this mean it WILL happen for Adams? No. But to say one cannot improve cover skills is just wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: That would be patently incorrect. Your premise would seem to indicate that covering is only a physical trait (something that would seemingly have less ability to change based on circumstance) Untrue. "Covering" also has to do with instinct, timing and technique. All those qualities CAN be learned and improved. Does this mean it WILL happen for Adams? No. But to say one cannot improve cover skills is just wrong You can’t “learn” instincts, and you can’t “learn” to overcome a 4.56/40 with a 7 second three-come at 210 lbs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, T0mShane said: You can’t “learn” instincts, and you can’t “learn” to overcome a 4.56/40 with a 7 second three-come at 210 lbs. You sharpen instincts through learned behaviors. Physical attribute is not an instinct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, T0mShane said: You can’t “learn” instincts, and you can’t “learn” to overcome a 4.56/40 with a 7 second three-come at 210 lbs. Adams is a glorified Jim Leonhard. It’s still laughable that we used a top 6 draft pick on this guy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said: He's the new Troy Polamalu ? Without the ball hawking ability, range and tenacity 63 tackles for a full time starting Safety who specializes in run stopping? Consider me underwhelmed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post T0mShane Posted June 19, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said: You sharpen instincts through learned behaviors. Physical attribute is not an instinct. It’s fine to like Adams, but you dudes should be honest about what he is—I mean, go back and look at one of those stupid highlight packages on YouTube. He tackles running backs and dances. He’s a gritty, tough, but athletically underwhelming safety who struggles mightily in coverage. It is what it is. Eric Smith had a similar profile and was a nice player for us for a long time 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackman55 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 The thing that stunned me about Adams is what a poor tackler he was, with poor technique going to his knees, etc. Markus Maye last year was a much better tackler not to mention his superior coverage skills. I still can't believe we took Adams at 6 with all the holes at value positions(OL,QB,CB1,Edge) on our roster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, T0mShane said: It’s fine to like Adams, but you dudes should be honest about what he is—I mean, go back and look at one of those stupid highlight packages on YouTube. He tackles running backs and dances. He’s a gritty, tough, but athletically underwhelming safety who struggles mightily in coverage. It is what it is. Eric Smith had a similar profile and was a nice player for us for a long time Adams is just a glorified version of what Smith and Leonhard were. Do you use a top 6 draft pick on that? I wouldn’t 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mackman55 said: The thing that stunned me about Adams is what a poor tackler he was, with poor technique going to his knees, etc. Markus Maye last year was a much better tackler not to mention his superior coverage skills. I still can't believe we took Adams at 6 with all the holes at value positions(OL,QB,CB1,Edge) on our roster. People here b-tch about the OL yet Cam Robinson looks like a franchise LT we passed on him for Jim Leonhard with a Twitter account 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 13 hours ago, Patriot Killa said: I’m implying that as a box safety, his primary skill set revolves around run support and he’s done a solid job of that. His scouting report said that he also had the ability to cover but he’s obviously still developing that into his game. As a box safety I do not expect his weaker ability to be fully molded in his rookie season. You guys are killing him like he’s a 14 year old veteran....all I’m saying is the time to roast the guy is not now. Everyone is saying “I told you so!” about Adams before his career even fully kicks into gear. It’s premature and holds no weight if we were to look at his numbers as a whole. Adams will be a good player, but he will never live up to being the #6 pick in the draft. That's not where you draft jack-of-all-trades safeties. That's where you draft impact players. Adams has average athletic ability for an NFL safety. He'll improve by the force of his will, which is impressive, but only so much. He'll never be that rangey centerfielder who changes the outcome of football games, he's a guy who tackles people. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: It’s fine to like Adams, but you dudes should be honest about what he is—I mean, go back and look at one of those stupid highlight packages on YouTube. He tackles running backs and dances. He’s a gritty, tough, but athletically underwhelming safety who struggles mightily in coverage. It is what it is. Eric Smith had a similar profile and was a nice player for us for a long time My comments were more in response to Mr Dbatesmans comment that he can't be improved. Carry on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Philc1 said: People here b-tch about the OL yet Cam Robinson looks like a franchise LT we passed on him for Jim Leonhard with a Twitter account Cam Robinson had an up and down rookie campaign. Despite starting all 16 games he did not make the all Rookie team for the tackle position (Bolles and Ramcyzk). Robinson was a load in the run game but had issues with pass protection and holding. Except for his youth, he's in no way an upgrade over Beachum. *** as for Adams he was a culture pick. Whether he learns how to cover or not (he probably will, right?). With Adams and Darnold hopefully each side of the ball has a leader in the years to come. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said: That would be patently incorrect. Your premise would seem to indicate that covering is only a physical trait (something that would seemingly have less ability to change based on circumstance) Untrue. "Covering" also has to do with instinct, timing and technique. All those qualities CAN be learned and improved. Does this mean it WILL happen for Adams? No. But to say one cannot improve cover skills is just wrong Of course he can get better, and I’m sure he will. But I don’t think he’s athletic enough to do it on a consistent basis. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 hours ago, bitonti said: Cam Robinson had an up and down rookie campaign. Despite starting all 16 games he did not make the all Rookie team for the tackle position (Bolles and Ramcyzk). Robinson was a load in the run game but had issues with pass protection and holding. Except for his youth, he's in no way an upgrade over Beachum. *** as for Adams he was a culture pick. Whether he learns how to cover or not (he probably will, right?). With Adams and Darnold hopefully each side of the ball has a leader in the years to come. Up and down? He paved the way for Leonard Fournette and was the best offensive lineman on a team that got to the AFCG Adams wouldn’t be taken in the first round in a redraft. Robinson would be a top 5 pick ditto for Deshaun Watson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, Philc1 said: Up and down? He paved the way for Leonard Fournette and was the best offensive lineman on a team that got to the AFCG Adams wouldn’t be taken in the first round in a redraft. Robinson would be a top 5 pick ditto for Deshaun Watson The Jaguars' offense is a run first operation and in that sense maybe he's their best lineman. But the wasn't dominant, which is why they backed up the truck for Andrew Norwell. Brandon Linder was probably their best lineman last year. Robinson is a Ok player but both Bolles and Ramcyzk had better years and he's not as valuable as Deshaun Watson. Adams would still be a first rd pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptable Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 23 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: I will be here. I like Adams. I just did not particularly like him at 6. I don't think anybody ever called him terrible, but he can't run particularly fast and to be a safety worth 6, he should be transcendent. I like Adams attitude okay, and I don't mind his mouth, but if his leadership was worth so much we would not have had to clean out the locker-room and Wilkerson would not have been late to meetings. Because a Rookie telling Wilk what to do would have gone over well in any locker room.... you have to be joking... and his talent might be still transcendent... you have no idea it has been 1 year and in that year he was rated by PFF (Yes, its not a perfect metric but it is something you can measure against other players at his position) 81.7 better then Earl Thomas (77.9), Kam Chancellor (71.9), Lamarcus Joyner (45.6), Adrian Amos (79.7), Kevin Byard (78.9), Tyvon Branch (63.9), Micah Hyde (73.9) etc. etc. in their rookie year... Be happy the Jets didn't draft a freaking dud at 6 like Robertson, or Golston, or Sanchez etc... etc... Jeez... WTF does it take for people to be freaking excited around here... This kid is on the right path and all you hear is bitching and complaining about drafting at 6... WHO CARES ANYMORE.... HE IS ON THE JETS... Not Buffalo, or NE or any other team... He is on the team you want to watch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Skeptable said: Because a Rookie telling Wilk what to do would have gone over well in any locker room.... you have to be joking... and his talent might be still transcendent... you have no idea it has been 1 year and in that year he was rated by PFF (Yes, its not a perfect metric but it is something you can measure against other players at his position) 81.7 better then Earl Thomas (77.9), Kam Chancellor (71.9), Lamarcus Joyner (45.6), Adrian Amos (79.7), Kevin Byard (78.9), Tyvon Branch (63.9), Micah Hyde (73.9) etc. etc. in their rookie year... Be happy the Jets didn't draft a freaking dud at 6 like Robertson, or Golston, or Sanchez etc... etc... Jeez... WTF does it take for people to be freaking excited around here... This kid is on the right path and all you hear is bitching and complaining about drafting at 6... WHO CARES ANYMORE.... HE IS ON THE JETS... Not Buffalo, or NE or any other team... He is on the team you want to watch... So, he got drafted at 6 because he is a great leader, but he can't say anything to anybody with more seniority? Talk about joking. I am not complaining about Adams. You accused us of being ready to run away when Adams becomes a perennial all-star. I answered because I will be right here. My tune won't change, but I will admit when I am wrong. BTW, PFF graded him better than those guys, but worse than Budda Baker, Marcus Williams, Josh Johnson. Worse than mid-pack starter (34th overall) and 4th best rookie safety is always a goal when picking at 6. Oh, sorry, I'm not supposed to mention his draft position. As I understand it, I am supposed to compare him to guys I think suck and feel blessed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On June 17, 2018 at 12:29 AM, Grandy said: Most TFLs and run stops of any DB in the NFL in his rookie season Our fanbase continues to puzzle me. I don't think that's true. Anyway, you don't even draft a run stopping DL with the #6 pick. Why would you draft a run stopping safety with #6? He's decent, but he doesn't have the upside because he doesn't have the athleticism. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 13 hours ago, Scott Dierking said: That would be patently incorrect. Your premise would seem to indicate that covering is only a physical trait (something that would seemingly have less ability to change based on circumstance) Untrue. "Covering" also has to do with instinct, timing and technique. All those qualities CAN be learned and improved. Does this mean it WILL happen for Adams? No. But to say one cannot improve cover skills is just wrong It's mostly a physical trait. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasy Island Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Jamal will be here for 3 more years. It is what it is. Mac is not a good GM. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 11 hours ago, detectivekimble said: I don't think that's true. Anyway, you don't even draft a run stopping DL with the #6 pick. Why would you draft a run stopping safety with #6? He's decent, but he doesn't have the upside because he doesn't have the athleticism. 63 tackles for a full time starting Safety who specializes in run stopping because Lord knows he’s getting less INTs than Kyle Wilson is nothing to crow about 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmech Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I can't believe Lee was picked. The thing that stunned me about Adams is what a poor tackler he was, with poor technique going to his knees, etc. Markus Maye last year was a much better tackler not to mention his superior coverage skills. I still can't believe we took Adams at 6 with all the holes at value positions(OL,QB,CB1,Edge) on our roster.Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 12:29 AM, Grandy said: Most TFLs and run stops of any DB in the NFL in his rookie season Our fanbase continues to puzzle me. You don't pick Adams over a QB to stop the run, you pick him because presumably he would be a disruptive force vs. the pass, get turnovers and be able to cover primo TEs. He may very well be a servicable safety, but that's not a good reason to have picked any safety so high over positions of need like QB or edge. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/18/2018 at 10:20 PM, Jetmech said: It's weird the Jets would draft another safety high after the Pryor experiment. Hope he improves or just another bad high pick. Same with Lee, it could be two bad picks. Williams hasn't been worthy either.. Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk Think Williams has the talent to be a force. Line him up in the same spot every down as the Jets have so far makes him very easy to defend. But don't expect the braintrust of Kacy Rodgers and Todd Bowles to figure it out. Mike Westhoff and Willie Colon both did, but... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptable Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said: So, he got drafted at 6 because he is a great leader, but he can't say anything to anybody with more seniority? Talk about joking. I am not complaining about Adams. You accused us of being ready to run away when Adams becomes a perennial all-star. I answered because I will be right here. My tune won't change, but I will admit when I am wrong. BTW, PFF graded him better than those guys, but worse than Budda Baker, Marcus Williams, Josh Johnson. Worse than mid-pack starter (34th overall) and 4th best rookie safety is always a goal when picking at 6. Oh, sorry, I'm not supposed to mention his draft position. As I understand it, I am supposed to compare him to guys I think suck and feel blessed. You obviously have never played on a sports team... No rookie on any sports team has ever come in and told a senior player what to do without getting their teeth knocked in... It never ever happens. Period. Sure lead by example and they got rid of the malcontents. I am just surprised at how ready people are to write a kid off that has been on the team for 1 year. Ok, point proven you win 34th overall safety is terrible and they should have drafted who? Mike Williams, John Ross, McCaffery, Reddick?, Howard, Mahomes, Watson??, Lattimore what exactly were YOU looking at for that pick? Because I will argue Adams produced and contributed more then next 15 players drafted after him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/16/2018 at 7:45 PM, BigO said: Like father Like son. On 6/16/2018 at 8:26 PM, Patriot Killa said: Bravo on predicting the future based off a rookie season.(a rookie season that wasn’t even bad) Idk what we would do without your psychic abilities. Why are people so defensive about Jamal Adams jokes? Makes no sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/16/2018 at 10:06 PM, Larz said: Jeez, imagine if the kid didn't make the all rookie team and a pro bowl alternate and play slot corner, outside corner and edge rusher as well as safety racking up 83 tackles, 2 sacks and a forced fumble It's not his fault he's asked to do 100 different things. It's also not his fault we drafted him so high onto a team that didn't need to be making luxury picks. But we need him to do one thing well: Cover. He's not good at that. Period. Maybe one day he will be, but when you're picked as high as that, you'd better at least be able to cover TE's. He doesn't need to be Sean Taylor, but he can't be bad at the one thing he needs to be good at. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 5:46 AM, Saul Goodman said: It’s literally only a few trolls and bozos here on JN that think Jamal is not a good player. A safety taken at 6 being "good" does not make it a smart pick. Good is not good enough. I'd rather have a slightly above average corner at 6 than a "good" or even "very good" safety. Those who continue to defend the pick simply aren't displaying any understanding of player value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said: Why are people so defensive about Jamal Adams jokes? Makes no sense. No one is defensive. It’s annoying, these “jokes” are henged of 1 full rookie season in which he didn’t even do bad, he did good. Why is the fan base making fun of one of their foundational players for having a colorful personality. He hasn’t even gotten a chance to “put his money where his mouth is” and you people are already hoping he fails, because either he irked them the wrong way by being outspoken or you need something from him to further complain/mock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: No one is defensive. It’s annoying, these “jokes” are henged of 1 full rookie season in which he didn’t even do bad, he did good. Why is the fan base making fun of one of their foundational players for having a colorful personality. He hasn’t even gotten a chance to “put his money where his mouth is” and you people already to hoping he fails because either he irked them the wrong way by being outspoken or you need something from him to further complain/mock. "Foundational". lol. A box safety should never be the "foundational" player on your defense. Ever. He hasn't displayed any ability to do the things that are important for his position in today's NFL. That's why the criticism for being "all talk" is valid. Especially coming off the 6-year tenure of Rex Ryan, where this kind of talk wore very thin, very fast. Produce, then talk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, Skeptable said: You obviously have never played on a sports team... No rookie on any sports team has ever come in and told a senior player what to do without getting their teeth knocked in... It never ever happens. Period. Sure lead by example and they got rid of the malcontents. I am just surprised at how ready people are to write a kid off that has been on the team for 1 year. Ok, point proven you win 34th overall safety is terrible and they should have drafted who? Mike Williams, John Ross, McCaffery, Reddick?, Howard, Mahomes, Watson??, Lattimore what exactly were YOU looking at for that pick? Because I will argue Adams produced and contributed more then next 15 players drafted after him. Haha. You got me. I have never been on "sports team." I am famous for that. In case you didn't know, that was sarcasm. I haven't played single-A baseball, but... Make up your ******* mind. What is your argument? You want me to shut up about Adams? I would be glad to, but you want me to kiss his ass for being a mid-pack safety. No thanks. Lattimore made the pro bowl. Watson plays the most valuable position and was responsible for 21 TDs. Mahomes will start this year. They all play higher value positions. That was what I was looking for at that pick. More importantly, you want to play the he was only a rookie card. Part of the benefit of Adams was his "pedigree." He was a 3 year starter at a top school and his Dad was in the NFL. He came in ready to play. Yes, he will probably improve over time, but this isn't Byron Jones coming out of UConn. He is much closer to a finished product than most of these guys. Guys like Williams, Jenkins and Adams are closer to their NFL vet selves coming into the league than Byron Jones, Gwacham, Derrick Jones, etc. My issue is not with Adams as a player, so much as the fact that these guys are Maccagnan's successes. It does not take much projection to see these guys as pros. With guys with a higher ceiling and lower floor, our track record has been dismal. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 10:10 AM, Patriot Killa said: As if interceptions are the only thing that makes a Safety good. A box safety at that. The fact that you handful of people are calling a player a “bust” after a measly 16 games that he accumulated very good numbers in despite his interception total is laughable at best The mere fact that he's a box safety alone is why he shouldn't have picked where he was. But then you have mooks screaming "BPA!!" and "We got a steal!" and all of a sudden people take it as gospel truth that he was the right pick. He should have been a mid-late first rounder for a team with an already solid defense. Not a top 10 pick for a team without a pass rusher or quality corners. Again, the hate should be flowing much more to Macc than Adams, but Adams isn't helping his cause with the unwarranted yapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: No one is defensive. It’s annoying, these “jokes” are henged of 1 full rookie season in which he didn’t even do bad, he did good. Why is the fan base making fun of one of their foundational players for having a colorful personality. He hasn’t even gotten a chance to “put his money where his mouth is” and you people are already hoping he fails, because either he irked them the wrong way by being outspoken or you need something from him to further complain/mock. Why can't we joke about the guy? I have Pats fan friends (gross, I know) they make fun of Brady at Carnivale and Welker at the Derby. Doesn't mean they think they suck or don't want them on the team. Don't you make fun of your friends and teammates when they say and do stupid sh*t? Is there a world where even your best friend doesn't bust your balls for calling yourself #president on twitter? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/17/2018 at 3:56 PM, Larz said: PFF has Adams as "above average" they were not as kind to Maye who earned a "poor" rating. But Maye has 2 picks so he's better ??? They both were awful picks. Draft athletes, not "hole fillers". That was the lesson from the Lorenzo Mauldin, Darron Lee, Adams, and Maye picks. Heimerdinger sort of seems to get that, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said: "Foundational". lol. A box safety should never be the "foundational" player on your defense. Ever. He hasn't displayed any ability to do the things that are important for his position in today's NFL. That's why the criticism for being "all talk" is valid. Especially coming off the 6-year tenure of Rex Ryan, where this kind of talk wore very thin, very fast. Produce, then talk. He has shown the ability to play coervage well. He has also gotten burned. As I previously said before , I do not expect his weaker skill set to be molded after his rookie season. That is where the part about killing him before he even gets chance to do put his money where his mouth, comes from. He is a foundational piece. He does have very solid run support numbers, he’s a leader on the team, he CAN play coverage and his eyes are getting better. Adams will be a very solid player. Will he justify the #6 pick? Probably not. He is a foundational piece to the puzzle though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.