Andy Reid - QB Whisperer

[Barry McCockinner]

17 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Yesterday put him in.

He took 2 teams to a SB, and now, finally won one.

I think he was already in but he's a lock now.

[Biggs]

13 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Converting two 4th-and-1 plays was ballsy and making them both work, with a team that isn't really built to grind out a yard, was incredible.  But I don't think it's fair to say KC wasn't as good as SF.  You pretty much had best defense in league vs. best offense in league.  And on the other side, KC's defense and SF's offense are both good but not great.  I saw it as pretty even.  But I'll admit Deebo Samuel surprise me and between him and Kittle, they have enough weapons.  I just think Jimmy G is a Ryan Tannehill / Dak Prescott type.  Pretty good at everything when the situation is perfect, but falls apart under pressure.  On the other hand, Mahomes is more like Favre.  Kind of needs to get pissed off to get going.  But then it's "Hold My Beer" time. :).

 

SF had the 4th ranked O in yards, 2nd in points.  A very tough schedule.  The Chiefs had the 6th best O in yards, 5th in points.  SF O was arguably the most balanced O in the NFL this year.  

I saw both QB's rattled by the big stage.  Reid remained aggressive and showed faith in Mahomes who finally broke through.  Shanahan on the other hand was clearly playing tight and I believe that having a play caller tight impacts the QB.  It was a big spot for Garapollo and Shanahan never really showed him that he believed in him.  

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

SF had the 4th ranked O in yards, 2nd in points.  A very tough schedule.  The Chiefs had the 6th best O in yards, 5th in points.  SF O was arguably the most balanced O in the NFL this year.  

I saw both QB's rattled by the big stage.  Reid remained aggressive and showed faith in Mahomes who finally broke through.  Shanahan on the other hand was clearly playing tight and I believe that having a play caller tight impacts the QB.  It was a big spot for Garapollo and Shanahan never really showed him that he believed in him.  

Interesting take and could be.  I think the difference is that Mahomes and KC seem to have shown a pattern of starting slowly and then eventually hitting the gas.  With that team, they really only need a few minutes to flip the scoreboard.  And Mahomes really is that good and yes, having both Reid and Mahomes knowing that helps.  No question Mahomes was way off his game in the first half (3 quarter really) but it was mostly a matter of waiting to see if he'd wake up.  Once he did, you almost knew it was game over.

I didn't see as much of SF this season, but I just don't see the same thing in Jimmy G.  He's the kind of QB who wins 2 SBs with the 2009/2010 Jets.  Very good when the team around him is good.  But he really fell apart when KC got pressure on him.  Maybe that was Shannahan.  Hard to tell without watching the game again (which I might).

[jetstream23]

36 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Converting two 4th-and-1 plays was ballsy and making them both work, with a team that isn't really built to grind out a yard, was incredible.  But I don't think it's fair to say KC wasn't as good as SF.  You pretty much had best defense in league vs. best offense in league.  And on the other side, KC's defense and SF's offense are both good but not great.  I saw it as pretty even.  But I'll admit Deebo Samuel surprise me and between him and Kittle, they have enough weapons.  I just think Jimmy G is a Ryan Tannehill / Dak Prescott type.  Pretty good at everything when the situation is perfect, but falls apart under pressure.  On the other hand, Mahomes is more like Favre.  Kind of needs to get pissed off to get going.  But then it's "Hold My Beer" time. :).

 

Reid ran the ball a little more than I expected, and it worked, including on some 3rd and 4th downs.

Andy was masterful in his play calling.  It took a little while to get going and I have to say that Mahomes wasn't really sharp early in the game.  Some bad passes, short passes, some throws behind guys and 2 INTs.  But once the dam finally cracked (on a long, masterful route by Tyreek Hill) it really juiced KC.

KC was balanced, used Kelce at some key times but not for any huge chunk plays, and they beat Sherman a couple times, once for that key, deep sideline pass to Sammy Watkins.

I'm going to rewatch the game at some point and really enjoy it.

[Irish Jet]

Delighted for Reid. Seems a great guy and it's been a while coming. 

Has been a consistent winner through different teams with multiple QB's. Not easy to do in the NFL. Called a great game yesterday and had Mahomes been himself they probably kill that game much earlier. 

[nycdan]

10 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Reid ran the ball a little more than I expected, and it worked, including on some 3rd and 4th downs.

Andy was masterful in his play calling.  It took a little while to get going and I have to say that Mahomes wasn't really sharp early in the game.  Some bad passes, short passes, some throws behind guys and 2 INTs.  But once the dam finally cracked (on a long, masterful route by Tyreek Hill) it really juiced KC.

KC was balanced, used Kelce at some key times but not for any huge chunk plays, and they beat Sherman a couple times, once for that key, deep sideline pass to Sammy Watkins.

I'm going to rewatch the game at some point and really enjoy it.

This is a very re-watchable game for the reasons you stated.  

[nycdan]

Wilford Brimley still wants his mustache back.

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Delighted for Reid. Seems a great guy and it's been a while coming. 

Has been a consistent winner through different teams with multiple QB's. Not easy to do in the NFL. Called a great game yesterday and had Mahomes been himself they probably kill that game much earlier. 

Weird because up until yesterday the consensus on this board is he was a choke artist who would never win the big one.

Psst... if you can get a team to a SB, you have what it takes to win a SB.

[Barry McCockinner]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:47 PM, Scott Dierking said:

He is 11-13 in playoffs. Again, if that makes you happy, fine. A number of those, his team was favored to go to the SB. 

If that is your level of what you want, again, fine.

fine.

[jetsons]

On 10/2/2018 at 8:13 AM, Barry McCockinner said:

.I think he's a lock for the hall of fame one day. He has a ring as an assistant but could very well have a ring as HC before it's all said and done.  

Anyway - if I'm the Jets I'm starting my coaching search by learning everything I can about Andy Reid and trying to understand why he has been so successful. The Chiefs may even allow an interview - not a job interview, obviously - just an interview to learn about the man and what makes him tick. I'm interviewing all the retired QB's who have worked for him and any other unemployed coaches that have worked for him to try and understand what drives that success. If nothing else maybe they can learn a few things about what it takes to be successful in the NFL. 

 

Good post... He has 3 now ... & he should have 5... his Philly team was Robbed by the cheaters & if his Oline wasn't injured they would have taken down the Bucs.

[Barry McCockinner]

 

On 10/2/2018 at 12:02 PM, UnitedWhofans said:

He's the modern day Marty Schottenheimer

 

On 10/2/2018 at 12:28 PM, nyjunc said:

He is, both great coaches who couldn't get it done in the biggest games but always had their teams competing among the best in the league.  I hope Andy gets a SB so he can get the respect he deserves.

peas in a pod.

[Barry McCockinner]

On 10/2/2018 at 8:42 AM, Scott Dierking said:

Andy Reid is a poor, poor game manager. 

Remember how Rex was called a Great D coordinator? Andy Reid is a great O coordinator.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 12:38 PM, Scott Dierking said:

And would't win a SB or playoff games. if you are happy with that, fine.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 12:47 PM, Scott Dierking said:

He is 11-13 in playoffs. Again, if that makes you happy, fine. A number of those, his team was favored to go to the SB. 

If that is your level of what you want, again, fine.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 12:57 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Oh, if you want recency, he is 1-6 in his last 7 playoff games. So there is that. 

"Great" head coaches get there, and at least win one or 2. Andy Reid has not done that. 

If that is your level of success that you want, I get it. But I would rather have someone who will win it. Or at least has  shown that he does not have a history that he can't.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 12:58 PM, Scott Dierking said:

How many has he won?

 

On 10/2/2018 at 1:11 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Andy Reid is 0-1 in a SB. There are many other coaches that have that same record, that would not be called great.

My indictment of Reid is that he has taken 13 teams to the playoffs, yet only has 1 appearance in the SB, and 0 wins in that game.

Nice record, but not an all time great performance in games that matter. Some may call that choking in big games. Ala Marty Schottenheimer

 

On 10/2/2018 at 1:19 PM, Scott Dierking said:

I see young coaching proteges around football circles, aspiring for the same moniker. 

 

On 10/2/2018 at 1:22 PM, Scott Dierking said:

As long as he does not have to coach the game, or manage that game, yes.

You know ho we often say that that jets fans notice the warts of their own, and are not as harsh on others that we don't see as often? This is one of those examples.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 2:40 PM, Scott Dierking said:

And they have one more SB than Andy Reid.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 2:44 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Which is akin to saying that salisbury steak is a great meal that is not served at a steakhouse.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 3:37 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Nor anyone else. You know what? Tom Coughlin beat the Pats twice in the SB. Doug Pederson once (in his second year.) 

It just goes to show you that just getting there is not only half the battle. You actually have to coach in order to win it all. And Andy Reid has not done that.

Very good coach, yes. But not in the upper echelon of coaches that have actually won the title. 

And based on what I have seen as a measuring stick of temperament on this site, he would be eviscerated on this site with that track record. And I get it.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 3:42 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Here is Andy Reid in a nutshell. 2002 NFC championship game. Against Tampa Bay. Who, in their history were 1-21 in games played under 40 degrees. ONE and TWENTY-ONE! The Eagles had manhandled them in the regular season as well

It is a frigid day in Philadephia. Everything is set up for them. They promptly lose 27-10.

Only Andy Reid.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 3:48 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Here, feel this pain:

http://phillyinfluencer.com/2016/01/here-are-some-of-andy-reids-all-time-top-clock-management-screw-ups/

 

Sound familiar?

 

On 10/2/2018 at 4:53 PM, Scott Dierking said:

You have a low tolerance for what you consider "great". That is fine and you are welcome to that opinion.

Certainly, on a Jetsian scale, he would be great. But that is not the greatness that I am shooting for. If it is what you want, more power to you.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 4:53 PM, Scott Dierking said:

I would have taken Doug Marrone. But YOU though that was a horrible idea,

 

[RutgersJetFan]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:57 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Oh, if you want recency, he is 1-6 in his last 7 playoff games. So there is that. 

"Great" head coaches get there, and at least win one or 2. Andy Reid has not done that. 

If that is your level of success that you want, I get it. But I would rather have someone who will win it. Or at least has  shown that he does not have a history that he can't.

[rangerous]

reid certainly knows how to design plays to get the defense moving in the direction he wants.  the chiefs had 2 td passes that were wide open in the red zone.

[Charlie Brown]

I am so glad this was bumped.

Wanted Reid as a HC when he was available, like I wanted Mike Shannahan when he wanted to be Vice President of the Jets but we just had to have that winner in Adam Gase in the latter case. 

Simple, Reid is one if the greatest HCs of his generation and he is now going to be recognized for it. 

Good for him..

[Scott Dierking]

7 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, bad call on my part. Give Reid credit. He was a notorious choker in Philadelphia in crucial moments of games and in crucial games themselves, and he improved.  He used to burn times out like they were candy and he often just plain choked.

Cheap shot on my part here, but I wish he managed his family as well as he does games, now. There are skeletons in that closet as I hear it from those that know. And not just the stuff that hits the news.

[shawn306]

44 minutes ago, rangerous said:

reid certainly knows how to design plays to get the defense moving in the direction he wants.  the chiefs had 2 td passes that were wide open in the red zone.

yup that right there. Probably just a little in-game adjustment made at halftime.

Eagles DC is getting torched right now on WIP.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, shawn306 said:

yup that right there. Probably just a little in-game adjustment made at halftime.

Eagles DC is getting torched right now on WIP.

To WIP's credit (Cataldi) they ripped Gannon early and often throughout his tenure. Don't see how the Cardinals hire him now.

[Scott Dierking]

47 minutes ago, rangerous said:

reid certainly knows how to design plays to get the defense moving in the direction he wants.  the chiefs had 2 td passes that were wide open in the red zone.

Putting receivers in motion last night was genius (with that turf).

[shawn306]

13 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Hey, bad call on my part. Give Reid credit. He was a notorious choker in Philadelphia in crucial moments of games and in crucial games themselves, and he improved.  He used to burn times out like they were candy and he often just plain choked.

Cheap shot on my part here, but I wish he managed his family as well as he does games, now. There are skeletons in that closet as I hear it from those that know. And not just the stuff that hits the news.

Reid has improved tremendously over the years. This is a guy who lost 3 straight NFC Title games in Philly. (Two at home as a heavy favorite) and a Super Bowl before getting run out of town. 

[shawn306]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

To WIP's credit (Cataldi) they ripped Gannon early and often throughout his tenure. Don't see how the Cardinals hire him now.

Heard it this morning. I thought they would be ripping the ref's for the holding call but this is on all on Gannon in their eyes. 

[extmenace]

This second ring makes up for all the chokes he's had prior to this win. He's probably the best HC of this generation, hes got multiple rings to prove it now. He'll likely never catch belicheck, but belicheck needed brady to be relevant. Andy Reid has been relevant with at least a half a dozen QBs. Not sure how much longer he'll be coaching for, but good for him, this last chapter has more than made up for some of his past failures. He's a special coach.

[The Crusher]

On 10/2/2018 at 8:37 AM, Smashmouth said:

Yep Andy Reid is the best IMHO  . It's not just about his QB's it's about the fact KC has WR's running wide open all over the field. He knows how to develop mismatches  and he's been doing it his entire career. It's much easier to play QB when you have weapons at every position with blazing speed and a coach who knows how to coach and get players open.

He's like the Anti Jets coach. When you watch the Jets they can't even disguise a damn screen pass. How often do you see Jets WR's running wide open ? Do we ever see Jets WR's running wide open ? 

That was simply nuts last night against a great defense. Pretty sure they scored on every possession I’m second half. 

[RutgersJetFan]

14 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

That was simply nuts last night against a great defense. Pretty sure they scored on every possession I’m second half. 

Credit goes to the QB that whipped his dick out while playing on one leg and likely every single painkiller that mankind has ever produced, not the fat guy on the sidelines. 

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Credit goes to the QB that whipped his dick out while playing on one leg and likely every single painkiller that mankind has ever produced, not the fat guy on the sidelines. 

A Herculean effort but he  had some really nice wide open guys to throw too. But what Mahomes, his bad ankle  and his dick of determination did last night was incredible. 

[RutgersJetFan]

18 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

A Herculean effort but he  had some really nice wide open guys to throw too. But what Mahomes, his bad ankle  and his dick of determination did last night was incredible. 

Dick of the century. 

[jgb]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

A Herculean effort but he  had some really nice wide open guys to throw too. But what Mahomes, his bad ankle  and his dick of determination did last night was incredible. 

Internet foul! You must attribute complex effects to a single solitary cause otherwise you cannot participate in online discussions.

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/2/2018 at 8:14 AM, JetsFanatic said:

Too bad his teams flame out in the post season.

This aged well.

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/2/2018 at 8:45 AM, KRL said:

Yes, Reid has done a good job with QB's but this is the thing that's so
hysterical about people's opinions on coaches.  Reid has always come up
small in the playoffs and PHI fans couldn't wait to kick him out the door 

So did this

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/2/2018 at 10:25 AM, legler82 said:

With or without Andy Reid, it was pretty for anybody with eyes, not named Mike Maccagnan, to see that Mahomes going to be good.

Yet at the time, Reid was knocked for drafting Mahomes and subsequently kicking Alex Smith to the curb after a career year.

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:38 PM, Scott Dierking said:

And would't win a SB or playoff games. if you are happy with that, fine.

Also didn't age well

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:47 PM, Scott Dierking said:

He is 11-13 in playoffs. Again, if that makes you happy, fine. A number of those, his team was favored to go to the SB. 

If that is your level of what you want, again, fine.

Yes, I want Andy Reid.  Wonder if he's available?

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/2/2018 at 12:57 PM, Scott Dierking said:

Oh, if you want recency, he is 1-6 in his last 7 playoff games. So there is that. 

"Great" head coaches get there, and at least win one or 2. Andy Reid has not done that. 

If that is your level of success that you want, I get it. But I would rather have someone who will win it. Or at least has  shown that he does not have a history that he can't.

John Elway had a history of choking in the playoffs until he didn't.

Same with Peyton Manning.

Elway, Manning and now Andy Reid all have 2 rings.  

Nice work Scott.  Glad we got this one sorted out.  

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/2/2018 at 1:20 PM, Barry McCockinner said:

He will win at least one if Mahomes stays healthy.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 1:22 PM, Scott Dierking said:

As long as he does not have to coach the game, or manage that game, yes.

You know ho we often say that that jets fans notice the warts of their own, and are not as harsh on others that we don't see as often? This is one of those examples.

 

Wow Scott.  Wow.  Barry really kicked you in the d**k in this thread didn't he.

[Jetsfan80]

On 10/2/2018 at 2:10 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m sorry — Kevin Kolb?

I think that one alone demonstrates Andy Reid (who drafted Kolb) has to have a minimum of something to work with or he isn’t able to do his magic whispering. You can’t just throw any meh-talent QB out there and suddenly the player’s great (or even halfway decent) because of his royal whisperness.

I noticed young Nick Foles was conveniently skipped-over. With Reid he looked like Kevin Kolb. The first year without Reid he had one of the all-time great NFL seasons. Strange. After that he was fine so long as he had an OL (Anyone should be absolved for time spent playing for Jeff Fisher), whether it was a couple games against teams who couldn’t pick off a pass to save their skins with KC, or in his return to the Eagles a year later.

I’m not saying Reid’s not a serious coaching asset, but the only QBs truly worth mentioning on the list were top 10 (and mostly top 2) draft pick QBs. It’s not like he’s made a career of developing mid- and late-rounders (or even 2nd rounders and mid/late 1st rounders) into studs. Far from it. 

McNabb was the #2 pick in the country; a top prospect in his own right. 

Vick was a veteran former #1 pick who was still just 29, not some broken down old man, when he joined the Eagles. He could still play at that time, whether that came with Reid’s team or someone else. 

Alex Smith was another former #1 overall pick, and his career had already been turned around by Harbaugh. If the sentiment is Reid didn’t suddenly undo Harbaugh’s work, that’s tepid praise at best.

Jeff Garcia was a 36 year-old former pro bowler in his one season with Reid, and not coincidentally was again a pro bowler a year later at age 37 with Tampa.

I’d of course rather have him than Bowles, but without much effort I could easily change the narrative around to: “Reid couldn’t get squat out of any QB who wasn’t a top 10 (if not top 2) non-bust, and/or picking up a QB someone else had already developed,” and it’d be a factually-accurate statement.

He’s also squarely to blame for getting LeSean McCoy badly concussed in the first season of his $60m Eagles extension, sitting at 3-7 (about to be 3-8) yet still running McCoy into Washington’s DL despite trailing 31-6 with under 2 minutes left. 

Good coach. Certainly better than we have, for sure, but he’s also certainly flawed and doesn’t remotely make QB stars out of meh and garbage talent prospects.

 

Good coaches need good QBs to win.  Story at 11.