Why can’t Mac get a 2nd for Leo?

[SR24]

Just now, Philc1 said:

I never said we should trade Henry Anderson 

I edited and added some stuff

[Fantasy Island]

On 4/16/2019 at 11:59 PM, Philc1 said:

Leo is a glorified Mike Devito

Hey, that's not fair.  Devito made plays.

[Scoop24]

2 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

Hey, that's not fair.  Devito made plays.

And yet had never had a better season Leo in any year of his career. 

[kmnj]

one of the few good players mac drafted and he is good not great-the last thing in the  world I want to do is give mac second round picks-as useless as giving gloves to a guy with no hands.... the sooner we get mac out  of here the better-hackenberg should have been his death  nail-any real franchise would have said um no this guy does not deserve to have this job

 

[bealeb319]

I think we could easily get a second for leo. I think we would be better off giving him this last year

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[Ex-Rex]

On 4/16/2019 at 11:57 PM, Philc1 said:

When he got a 2nd for Sheldon a couple years ago under similar circumstances?

 

theres a couple reasons to do this 1) jets get a second round pick 2) this prevents the inevitable albatross $100 million contract Mac will give to Leo next offseason and 3) it clears the way for us to draft the best player in this draft

 

 

 

Because the film will show exactly how lazy and uninspired Leonard Williams has been the last two seasons. Half effort - if that - and not much production. With Richardson his effort was never an issue, just his attitude. I wouldn't give a fourth round pick for Williams right now. He has NOT lived up to his draft position and more importantly he has not lived up to his talent. He is just coasting along because Bowles allowed it. Gregg Williams will not. If I were the Jets I would let him play out this season and release him. I would NOT take a chance on him playing well after getting big money. Remember Mo Wilkerson.

[bealeb319]

one of the few good players mac drafted and he is good not great-the last thing in the  world I want to do is give mac second round picks-as useless as giving gloves to a guy with no hands.... the sooner we get mac out  of here the better-hackenberg should have been his death  nail-any real franchise would have said um no this guy does not deserve to have this job
 

I don't think Mac's drafts have been fantastic either but hackenburg was a mid second round draft pick who had a decent ceiling with a low floor. Its not like he was taken in the first round and busted out like Paxton lynch, Johnny manziel, Blake bortles, rg3, Brandon weeden, Christian ponder, ej Manuel, Blaine gabbert just to name a few. Point is there is no science to drafting these guys but you still have to take chances cause any one of them can pan out like Russel Wilson or dak Prescott and put your franchise in a good position

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[Ex-Rex]

16 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I think we could easily get a second for leo. I think we would be better off giving him this last year

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There is NO WAY any team will give a second round pick for a lazy, unmotivated player that Williams has shown himself to be the last two seasons. I blame Todd Bowles for not laying down the law but when a player takes advantage of a HC NOT benching him for poor play and continues his lazy play, then that is a guy NO ONE should want.

[varjet]

21 hours ago, rangerous said:

good points.  so many are trying to put the cart in front of the horse. leo is going to play at least as well as he has the past few seasons.   at season's end the jets will try to re-sign and he will probably end up walking.  the jets will get a compensatory pick which will be at least in the third round.  and if they do re-sign him, as long as it's not crazy money, so what.

It is supposed to work this way:

• The Jets draft great players in the first round that play well, worth the rookie contract and that they would like to keep around long term.
• This should be a player that the Jets would like around for the long-term, and that would be worth "market value" for a very good player at that position.
• The player would have to wait until after five years to get guaranteed money, or even longer if he was franchised like Mo was.  The team usually would pay a premium price to franchise a player.  For a good draft pick, the team and player should be incentivized the extend after four years, before the premium fifth year, in return for a reasonable compensation package.  The team would provide guaranteed money a year or two early but take early injury risk.  The player lays off a year of injury risk and gets their guaranteed money earlier, but takes a bit less.  If you do this across the board the team gets good cap value for its good players.
• Mac has yet to do the above.  We are looking at Leo, who is playing on his fifth year option, and most feel like he will either walk or get paid too much money by the Jets.  Lee will not be extended and could get traded.  He may not even get his fifth year option, which will be too much money for him.  Adams will likely get a big safety contract.  Darnold is Darnold.  The combination of who Mac has picked and his management of the situation has resulted in less than efficient management of the Jets cap space.  To me, the right answer was to extend Leo now for Sheldon money with incentives for him if he plays well and often.  

[varjet]

58 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

There is NO WAY any team will give a second round pick for a lazy, unmotivated player that Williams has shown himself to be the last two seasons. I blame Todd Bowles for not laying down the law but when a player takes advantage of a HC NOT benching him for poor play and continues his lazy play, then that is a guy NO ONE should want.

When people say that Mac made a good trade by sending Sheldon to the Seahawks for a second round pick and Kearse, they basically say that Schneider made a bad trade.

Sheldon was one and done at Seattle and did ok.  The Seahawks thought that Sheldon could get them to the playoffs+.  They were wrong.  Sheldon played better with the Vikings (duh, prove it deal) and signed an ok contract with the Browns that I would give to Leo as well.  

If Mac traded for Sheldon people would hang him.  It only makes sense to trade for Leo if you can extend him upfront for a price that works for both sides.  What team will thinks that it is worth trading a valuable draft pick for Leo?  Leo was modeling new uniforms.   The Jets view him as having option value-hopefully he plays well in 2019 and helps Mac keep his job.  

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

I don't think Mac's drafts have been fantastic either but hackenburg was a mid second round draft pick who had a decent ceiling with a low floor. Its not like he was taken in the first round and busted out like Paxton lynch, Johnny manziel, Blake bortles, rg3, Brandon weeden, Christian ponder, ej Manuel, Blaine gabbert just to name a few. Point is there is no science to drafting these guys but you still have to take chances cause any one of them can pan out like Russel Wilson or dak Prescott and put your franchise in a good position

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I get the idea of taking a shot, but Hackenberg was a way worse pick than those guys.  Every ******* one of them.  Hackenberg NEVER took a snap.  Not one.  The QBs in front of him were Geno Smith, Ryan FItzpatrick, Josh McCown and Bryce Petty.  At one point they were all injured and they still didn't play him a down.  

Meanwhile, Blake Bortles started something like 75 games and won 2 playoff games, RGIII started 40 and a playoff game.  Paxton Lynch sucked but rated 4 starts, Johnny Manziel started 8, Brandon Weeden started 25, Christian Ponder started 36, E.J. Manuel started 18 and Blaine Gabbert 48.  A 2nd round pick that never played a down of football without being injured or suspended is unconscionable.  Even guys like Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell laugh at how Hackenberg trolled the Jets. 

[Thai Jet]

On 4/17/2019 at 6:13 AM, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Leo was advertised as the best player in the draft too, much like QW the pick does not translate to wins...

in 3-5 years the best player in this draft will be one of the QB's leading his team into the playoffs

 

Correct and that is usually the case.

[varjet]

Manziel in some ways was a pathbreaker for Mayfield.

Manziel had some games where he looked like an NFL QB.  His issues were mostly substance and psychological, which also were probably known to scouts.  But Manziel performed as a QB in college and could have been an NFL QB if his head was screwed on straight.

Hackenburg exhibited bad personality traits and basically lost his football ability after Freshman year.   His best QB attribute was looking like a QB-he was basically a fraud and he duped Mac into paying him millions.  He really did not have the intellectual capacity to play the position.  

[Fantasy Island]

3 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

And yet had never had a better season Leo in any year of his career. 

bang for buck

[Rolloffjet]

To answer the op question- we can but it would be stupid to trade him

[Jetmech]

I’ve waited for various Jets players with expiring contracts to play well before the trade deadline only to see not.


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[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Ex-Rex said:

There is NO WAY any team will give a second round pick for a lazy, unmotivated player that Williams has shown himself to be the last two seasons. I blame Todd Bowles for not laying down the law but when a player takes advantage of a HC NOT benching him for poor play and continues his lazy play, then that is a guy NO ONE should want.

Who comes up with this shlt.  He's not a JJ Watt so he's lazy and unmotivated.  Lol

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, varjet said:

Manziel in some ways was a pathbreaker for Mayfield.

Manziel had some games where he looked like an NFL QB.  His issues were mostly substance and psychological, which also were probably known to scouts.  But Manziel performed as a QB in college and could have been an NFL QB if his head was screwed on straight.

Hackenburg exhibited bad personality traits and basically lost his football ability after Freshman year.   His best QB attribute was looking like a QB-he was basically a fraud and he duped Mac into paying him millions.  He really did not have the intellectual capacity to play the position.  

So Manziels mental deficiencies were ok but Hacks weren't? 

[rangerous]

4 hours ago, varjet said:

It is supposed to work this way:

• The Jets draft great players in the first round that play well, worth the rookie contract and that they would like to keep around long term.
• This should be a player that the Jets would like around for the long-term, and that would be worth "market value" for a very good player at that position.
• The player would have to wait until after five years to get guaranteed money, or even longer if he was franchised like Mo was.  The team usually would pay a premium price to franchise a player.  For a good draft pick, the team and player should be incentivized the extend after four years, before the premium fifth year, in return for a reasonable compensation package.  The team would provide guaranteed money a year or two early but take early injury risk.  The player lays off a year of injury risk and gets their guaranteed money earlier, but takes a bit less.  If you do this across the board the team gets good cap value for its good players.
• Mac has yet to do the above.  We are looking at Leo, who is playing on his fifth year option, and most feel like he will either walk or get paid too much money by the Jets.  Lee will not be extended and could get traded.  He may not even get his fifth year option, which will be too much money for him.  Adams will likely get a big safety contract.  Darnold is Darnold.  The combination of who Mac has picked and his management of the situation has resulted in less than efficient management of the Jets cap space.  To me, the right answer was to extend Leo now for Sheldon money with incentives for him if he plays well and often.  

it doesn't help the team has been so bad for so many seasons.  losing so much brings a losing attitude.

[JohnnyLV]

Here is what I will say:

NE would trade LEO. It is part of what makes them so consistently successful. They would realize that while he is a good player, he is not worth a long term investment, so let's get value now, instead of just letting him walk next year.

The Jets mentality is: "Well he was a high round pick, and maybe he will get better under Williams and we want to grow form within and keep our hig draft picks so let's give him the next year and see"

Sometimes a high pick is just a JAG or even a really good player. But those players dont deserve elite money, and the good teams adhere to the cliche, which in this case is valid "get rid of a player a year early, not a year late"

 

 

 

[Jamax99]

No way., he needs a passrusher to play with him,  hes a good player , you add J Allen or Bosa with him.  He saw alot of doubles and was playing out of postion alot,  maybe under new DC he will shine.  

[Philc1]

On 4/18/2019 at 8:53 AM, Scoop24 said:

And yet had never had a better season Leo in any year of his career. 

[Philc1]

On 4/18/2019 at 4:12 PM, johnnysd said:

Here is what I will say:

NE would trade LEO. It is part of what makes them so consistently successful. They would realize that while he is a good player, he is not worth a long term investment, so let's get value now, instead of just letting him walk next year.

The Jets mentality is: "Well he was a high round pick, and maybe he will get better under Williams and we want to grow form within and keep our hig draft picks so let's give him the next year and see"

Sometimes a high pick is just a JAG or even a really good player. But those players dont deserve elite money, and the good teams adhere to the cliche, which in this case is valid "get rid of a player a year early, not a year late"

 

 

 

Good organizations move on from okay players they don’t overpay to keep them they trade them for picks and replace or upgrade

[Wonderboy]

On 4/18/2019 at 9:51 AM, bealeb319 said:

I think we could easily get a second for leo. I think we would be better off giving him this last year

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Get rid of him now while he has some value. Get a 2nd rounder, save millions. No brainer. With it without him, our DL now sucks. He has not lived up to being the 6th pick in the draft. 

[Wonderboy]

On 4/18/2019 at 2:52 PM, Jet Nut said:

Who comes up with this shlt.  He's not a JJ Watt so he's lazy and unmotivated.  Lol

How many games do you have to see this guy play to ascertain he’s just an average player that’s one dimensional. He has little to no impact on games and can’t even get close to the QB. 

[Adoni Beast]

I think what a lot of the “Keep Leo” crowd doesn’t realize is that next year someone is going overpay for Leo and it’s not going to be us. Or hopefully it’s not.

Get value return at its highest point if and when you can

[bealeb319]

Get rid of him now while he has some value. Get a 2nd rounder, save millions. No brainer. With it without him, our DL now sucks. He has not lived up to being the 6th pick in the draft. 

He has not lived up to being number 6 overall but what second rounder have we taken who has out produced him? The guy might not be a flashy sack machine but he is a perfectly serviceable player who probably will not command a game changing contract to extend.

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[Wonderboy]

49 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

He has not lived up to being number 6 overall but what second rounder have we taken who has out produced him? The guy might not be a flashy sack machine but he is a perfectly serviceable player who probably will not command a game changing contract to extend.

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Do you think he’s worth 14 million a year? That’s what he’ll get.

[bealeb319]

Do you think he’s worth 14 million a year? That’s what he’ll get.

Sheldon Richardson got that much I think he is just as good or better

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[Jet Nut]

.

[Jet Nut]

On 4/18/2019 at 4:12 PM, johnnysd said:

Here is what I will say:

NE would trade LEO. It is part of what makes them so consistently successful. They would realize that while he is a good player, he is not worth a long term investment, so let's get value now, instead of just letting him walk next year.

The Jets mentality is: "Well he was a high round pick, and maybe he will get better under Williams and we want to grow form within and keep our hig draft picks so let's give him the next year and see"

Sometimes a high pick is just a JAG or even a really good player. But those players dont deserve elite money, and the good teams adhere to the cliche, which in this case is valid "get rid of a player a year early, not a year late"

 

 

 

This is one of those made up we're the sucky Jets who don't know what they're doing comments.  How many Leo Williams type players in year 4 have they traded?  One?  For bellow value?  None?  I wouldn't be so sure that NE would trade Leo for bellow a great return

 

And please stop with the Williams and jag comments.  

[Peace Frog]

We are not trading anyone that was front and center for the uniform reveal. 

Get over it. 

Hope he becomes dominant. 

Or root for him to suck so you can claim righteousness. 

Either way I’m hoping Greg Williams makes him a QB wrecker. 

[JohnnyLV]

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

This is one of those made up we're the sucky Jets who don't know what they're doing comments.  How many Leo Williams type players in year 4 have they traded?  One?  For bellow value?  None?  I wouldn't be so sure that NE would trade Leo for bellow a great return

 

And please stop with the Williams and jag comments.  

Williams considering his draft position is a complete JAG...he does not move the bar fir wins at all..he is totally average. And are seriously forgetting the Chandler Jones trade just last year?

[Wonderboy]

47 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Sheldon Richardson got that much I think he is just as good or better

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Sheldon has done squat since his rookie year.

[Peace Frog]

8 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

Sheldon has done squat since his rookie year.

143 mph in a Bentley smoking doobies with his 12 year old nephew in the back and a loaded Glock under the seat qualifies as doing slightly more than squat.