Daniel Jones vs Sam Darnold

[nyjunc]

42 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

we can cry, scream, and whine about it all we want and throw any arbitrary stat out there.... but .... it ... doesn't .... matter ..... Eli is going to the hall of fame (regardless of whether you personally think he deserves it or not is irrelevant).

We'll see.  The voters will have 5 years to dissect what he has actually done other than win 2 SBs without ever leading an O to 20 pts.

15 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Not to mention their OL STUNK

Of course, it's always the fault of the OL.  Eli never makes a mistake ?

[kelticwizard]

10 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He won SB MVPs when he led his Os to 17 & 19 pts, throwing a total of 3 TDs in the 2 games while his D held NE to 14 & 17 pts when they averaged 38 & 32 in those years. 

If Eli had the exact same career here he would have been run out of town a decade ago because the Jets D wasn't good enough to carry him to SBs.

You have no idea just how poorly your factoids support your ridiculous conclusions.  Sometimes games are low scoring, sometimes high scoring, if you're going to win a Super Bowl you have to win both ways.

 

Simple fact:  Eli beat Brady, allegedly the Greatest Of All Time, both times when the two teams played in the Super Bowl.  That's what matters.  The rest is drivel.

[kelticwizard]

8 hours ago, nyjunc said:

We'll see.  The voters will have 5 years to dissect what he has actually done other than win 2 SBs without ever leading an O to 20 pts. 

And yet, each time he led his team to more points than Brady led his.

 

You have a tendency to quote statistics that are completely beside the point.  This is just the latest example.

[14 in Green]

On 5/6/2019 at 10:50 AM, Welp said:

A bad team with a generational QB is going to do much better than an bad team with a generational RB. I mean how hard is it to understand? A QB has more effect on the game than a RB and that’s why it’s more important to find one. There is no argument there it’s you either get it or you don’t.

Did the Giants draft a QB this year or did they not? Yes, they did.

Did the Jets draft a QB last year? Yes they did. Is he generational? We hope he is, but I don't know and neither do you.

Did the Giants draft a RB who was OROY and an All Pro his rookie year? Yes they did.

 Every thing I just said is fact, not opinion. I'll use your words... "There is no argument there, it's either you get it or you don't".

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, nyjunc said:

We'll see.  The voters will have 5 years to dissect what he has actually done other than win 2 SBs without ever leading an O to 20 pts.

Of course, it's always the fault of the OL.  Eli never makes a mistake ?

Eli has two super bowl trophies.  He’s a future hall of famer but yeah glorified Ryan Fitzpatrick according to you

[nyjunc]

10 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

You have no idea just how poorly your factoids support your ridiculous conclusions.  Sometimes games are low scoring, sometimes high scoring, if you're going to win a Super Bowl you have to win both ways.

 

Simple fact:  Eli beat Brady, allegedly the Greatest Of All Time, both times when the two teams played in the Super Bowl.  That's what matters.  The rest is drivel.

You are right, sometimes games are low scoring and sometimes high scoring.  The problem is he's never won a shootout, he's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points and in 12 playoff games he's only led his O to more than 24 points one time.

The reality is in 2 conf title games and 2 SBs he has never led good O to 20 points yet is 4-0 in those games.  Find me another QB with that on good resume?  Find me a QB with 2 or less SB wins that hasn't led an O to 20 points? A winning O has scored less than 20 in the SB only 6 other times besides the Eli years and 4 of those 6 happened in the 60s and  70s.

Eli didn't beat Brady, Eli's D beat Brady.  

[nyjunc]

10 hours ago, kelticwizard said:

And yet, each time he led his team to more points than Brady led his.

 

You have a tendency to quote statistics that are completely beside the point.  This is just the latest example.

He contributed to both SB runs but doesn't get close to winning without incredible D.  Imagine beating a Brady led O by leading your Os to 14 & 17?  I wonder how many times that has happened in the regular season where an opposing O scored less than 20 and beat NE with Brady?  It's never happened in another postseason game.

9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Eli has two super bowl trophies.  He’s a future hall of famer but yeah glorified Ryan Fitzpatrick according to you

Jim Plunkett has 2 SBs as well and he did more to help his team yet he's not in the hall.

 

How can anyone watch Eli throughout his career and think he even belong in the HOF discussion?  What games are you watching?

[EM31]

Maybe Eli gets in and maybe he doesn't. I don't really see it myself but I also don't really care much either way.  To take the position that it is a stone cold lock that he gets in...  That one seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

[kelticwizard]

8 hours ago, nyjunc said:

 he's never won a shootout, he's never won a playoff game when his D allowed more than 20 points and in 12 playoff games he's only led his O to more than 24 points one time....The reality is in 2 conf title games and 2 SBs he has never led good O to 20 points yet is 4-0 in those games.  Find me another QB with that on good resume?  Find me a QB with 2 or less SB wins that hasn't led an O to 20 points? A winning O has scored less than 20 in the SB only 6 other times besides the Eli years and 4 of those 6 happened in the 60s and  70s.

Must you entomb us under torrents of trivia?

 

Eli's Giants are 2-0 against Brady's Patriots in the Super Bowl because Eli led the Giants to score more points than Brady led the Patriots to score in both games.  Eli also threw for more yards than Brady in each game, and led the Giants to score last with the winning margin in both games.

 

It's a simple concept really-the team which scores the go-ahead points last wins.  That' why the Giants with Eli beat the Patriots with Brady twice.

[MichaelScott]

Is there a single post record for buttfumbles? @Maxman??

[Matt39]

7 hours ago, EM31 said:

Maybe Eli gets in and maybe he doesn't. I don't really see it myself but I also don't really care much either way.  To take the position that it is a stone cold lock that he gets in...  That one seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

Class of 04 is all getting in.

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Must you entomb us under torrents of trivia?

 

Eli's Giants are 2-0 against Brady's Patriots in the Super Bowl because Eli led the Giants to score more points than Brady led the Patriots to score in both games.  Eli also threw for more yards than Brady in each game, and led the Giants to score last with the winning margin in both games.

 

It's a simple concept really-the team which scores the go-ahead points last wins.  That' why the Giants with Eli beat the Patriots with Brady twice.

Eli's Giants won because the D held NE to 14 & 17 points.

2007 regular season average PPG(I usually take out D/STs scores but don't have time right now):

NE 36.8 PPG, scored 14 in SB

NYG 23.3 PPG, scored 17 in SB. 

 

2011:

NE 32.1 PPG, scored 17 in SB

NYG 24.6, scored 21 in SB (19 on O)

 

It's pretty simple why NYG won and why they have never won a playoff game with Eli when the D allowed more than 20 points.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Class of 04 is all getting in.

Rivers borderline, Eli no, Ben is a lock.

[Matt39]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Rivers borderline, Eli no, Ben is a lock.

They are all locks, regardless of how many individual game statistics you pluck. 

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They are all locks, regardless of how many individual game statistics you pluck. 

Eli has never been a top QB, he is not getting in.  After this year he will be an under.500 coach with zero all pros, only 2 PB selections, never leading any major category other than INTs 3 times,...  He was a decent QB, he doesn't even belong in the discussion for the hall and he will not make it.

[Matt39]

Just now, nyjunc said:

Eli has never been a top QB, he is not getting in.  After this year he will be an under.500 coach with zero all pros, only 2 PB selections, never leading any major category other than INTs 3 times,...  He was a decent QB, he doesn't even belong in the discussion for the hall and he will not make it.

This isnt something you'd put money on. 

[docdhc]

24 minutes ago, kelticwizard said:

Must you entomb us under torrents of trivia?

I understand your point. He won and was clutch at the end of 2 Super Bowls but torrents of trivia are what voters use to decide on who gets into the Hall of Fame. 

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

This isnt something you'd put money on. 

I might and I don't gamble. What are the Vegas odds?  Idiot voters that didn't actually watch him play and just look at 2 D led SBs and compiled numbers could get him in but I am counting on sanity among the voters.  How can a guy never among the best of his generation be a part of the greatest of all time? He doesn't even belong in the discussion.

[#27TheDominator]

30 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Class of 04 is all getting in.

Even J.P. Losman?  

Bradlee Van Pelt was drafted in that class.  Brad Van Pelt's (#10) son. He played for Bergamo when I was over there, but I don't think they won.  Their wikipedia page says they are undefeated since 1998, but I know Bolzano (Reggie Green) won in '09 and then Parma went on a post Playing for Pizza win streak.  Pretty sure the Rhinos had a winning record against them while I was there. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I might and I don't gamble. What are the Vegas odds?  Idiot voters that didn't actually watch him play and just look at 2 D led SBs and compiled numbers could get him in but I am counting on sanity among the voters.  How can a guy never among the best of his generation be a part of the greatest of all time? He doesn't even belong in the discussion.

This shows poor judgment

 

[JohnnyLV]

On 5/7/2019 at 9:05 AM, nyjunc said:

We'll see.  The voters will have 5 years to dissect what he has actually done other than win 2 SBs without ever leading an O to 20 pts.

Of course, it's always the fault of the OL.  Eli never makes a mistake ?

Nah, Eli will make it on his last name and 2 SBs regardless. He is a lock. IMO he is maybe the most overrated QB ever, and to be quite honest if his name was anything other than Manning, he might not have started year one, and may have been benched in his 2nd and 3rd seasons which were EXTREMELY average to bad. Hell, he has never even had a 100 QB rating for a season. He just had 2 lucky runs on mediocre teams that had just the right makeup to make it difficult for NE.

[CheezeMCRow]

regardless of personal love or hate for him, Eli is going to the hall of fame (as is Ben, as is Rivers). No matter the aesthetics of his style of play or fandom, at the end of the day, Eli is right up there in pretty much in every all-time passing category right now, and the fact he is still playing, a Walter Peyton Man of the Year recipient, and has two super bowl mvp's in NEW YORK of all places just further cements it. Is he the best of his generation? no, but that's not exactly a requirement for hall eligibility. 

It'd be impossible to justify putting Rivers in over Eli (or even Warren Moon or Namath), so that's not gonna happen, but all THREE in, yes, that is happening.

Rivers, while the best fantasy qb of the three, is probably still the biggest longshot since his playoff experience has been underwhelming at best, but at the end of the day, his durability and place in the leader boards of all-time passers will clinch it.

All three of those qb's will also be viewed through a much different lens years after they all retire too (further building upon their 'legendary' qb draft class status that much more). Now of course if Big Ben has another Big Rape allegation or two before he's eligible, well, that could always throw a monkey wrench in the works for the hat trick qb class.

 

[nyjunc]

25 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

This shows poor judgment

 

Maybe ?

18 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Nah, Eli will make it on his last name and 2 SBs regardless. He is a lock. IMO he is maybe the most overrated QB ever, and to be quite honest if his name was anything other than Manning, he might not have started year one, and may have been benched in his 2nd and 3rd seasons which were EXTREMELY average to bad. Hell, he has never even had a 100 QB rating for a season. He just had 2 lucky runs on mediocre teams that had just the right makeup to make it difficult for NE.

That is my fear but as his career winds down and he's under .500 as a starter I'm hoping sanity prevails.

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He contributed to both SB runs but doesn't get close to winning without incredible D.  Imagine beating a Brady led O by leading your Os to 14 & 17?  I wonder how many times that has happened in the regular season where an opposing O scored less than 20 and beat NE with Brady?  It's never happened in another postseason game.

Jim Plunkett has 2 SBs as well and he did more to help his team yet he's not in the hall.

 

How can anyone watch Eli throughout his career and think he even belong in the HOF discussion?  What games are you watching?

Because anyone with half a brain knows Eli is going in.  No matter how many circular stats you pull out of your ass trying to prove that he didnt win those games

This from someone who thinks that Sanchez was the reason the jets beat SD in SD and Rivers while throwing for 100 whole yards.  You keep blowing this story out of your ass, taking over every thread that states the obvious.  Eli is headed to the HOF.  Get over it

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, nyjunc said:

im Plunkett has 2 SBs as well and he did more to help his team yet he's not in the hall.

That would be totally wrong.  He never even threw for 3000 yards.  20 TDS once.  3 seasons he threw 6 or fewer TDs.  He didnt do more to help anyone 

[nyjunc]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Because anyone with half a brain knows Eli is going in.  No matter how many circular stats you pull out of your ass trying to prove that he didnt win those games

This from someone who thinks that Sanchez was the reason the jets beat SD in SD and Rivers while throwing for 100 whole yards.  You keep blowing this story out of your ass, taking over every thread that states the obvious.  Eli is headed to the HOF.  Get over it

Making stuff up doesn't help your weak argument.

[nyjunc]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That would be totally wrong.  He never even threw for 3000 yards.  20 TDS once.  3 seasons he threw 6 or fewer TDs.  He didnt do more to help anyone 

He did more in the 2 SB runs than Eli.  You can't compare stats from that era to this era but with less help from his D he led his O to more PPG in the 2 SB runs in an era where teams didn't score as much.

I can't help you if you have watched Eli for 15 years and think he's one of the best QBs of all time. He's an all time great giant, he's not an all time great player.  He was never great.

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He contributed to both SB runs but doesn't get close to winning without incredible D.  Imagine beating a Brady led O by leading your Os to 14 & 17?  I wonder how many times that has happened in the regular season where an opposing O scored less than 20 and beat NE with Brady?  It's never happened in another postseason game.

Jim Plunkett has 2 SBs as well and he did more to help his team yet he's not in the hall.

 

How can anyone watch Eli throughout his career and think he even belong in the HOF discussion?  What games are you watching?

I watched the games in which Eli ended up being 8th all time in touchdowns for nfl quarterbacks

 

Eli has thrown more tds than Joe Montana and John Elway but yeah he’s a mediocre game manager according to you

 

 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Making stuff up doesn't help your weak argument.

Yeah, I'm making stuff up.

 

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, nyjunc said:

He did more in the 2 SB runs than Eli.  You can't compare stats from that era to this era but with less help from his D he led his O to more PPG in the 2 SB runs in an era where teams didn't score as much.

I can't help you if you have watched Eli for 15 years and think he's one of the best QBs of all time. He's an all time great giant, he's not an all time great player.  He was never great.

He did not.  I get the difference in the game.  This less help pathetic cry over the defense being the only reason they won is laughable.  He was the winning QB on two SB teams.  He got them there, you admit it then go on and on and on about the points they scored and the points they gave up and then try take all credit away from Eli.

Its the complete 180 to your attempts to elevate Sanchez's pathetic career 

The real head scratcher is why every Sanchez and Eli post brings you out to make the case for one and against the other.  Arguing with everyone, none who agree with you along the way.  Its kind of funny and sad all at the same time

[kelticwizard]

12 hours ago, nyjunc said:

It's pretty simple why NYG won and why they have never won a playoff game with Eli when the D allowed more than 20 points.

Did you just come down from the mountain with chiseled tablets which say that unless you score more than 20 points in the Super Bowl, you didn't really win?

 

What are these strange posts you write?  Where did you get the idea that irrelevant statistics from other games played by other teams during other seasons somehow cancel out the fact that in the Super Bowl game you just played, your team scored more points than the other team?

 

Maybe the mods can change the name of this thread to Nyjunc's Twilight Zone.

 

 

[Smashmouth]

On 4/29/2019 at 12:36 PM, slats said:

Yeah, I feel a buttfumble coming on. 

not just a butt fumble but a butt fumble with pages ...Is that a first ?

[nyjunc]

19 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I watched the games in which Eli ended up being 8th all time in touchdowns for nfl quarterbacks

 

Eli has thrown more tds than Joe Montana and John Elway but yeah he’s a mediocre game manager according to you

 

 

No offense but you are clueless.  Setting the has better compiled numbers than Montana and elway should clue you in. 

League MVPs:

Joe Montana 1

John elway 1

Eli ZERO

All pro selections:

JM 6x

JE 3x

Eli ZERO

Led league in major category:

JM TDs 2x, rating 2x, comp % 5x

JE yds 1x

Eli ints 3x

Records as starters:

JM 117-47

JE 148-82-1

Eli 116-114

But Eli has more compiled numbers playing his entire career in an era where rules are skewed toward pass O.

 

Maybe it's because he's 6th all time in pass attempts playing mostly meaningless games with garbage time stats?

 

[nyjunc]

18 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

He did not.  I get the difference in the game.  This less help pathetic cry over the defense being the only reason they won is laughable.  He was the winning QB on two SB teams.  He got them there, you admit it then go on and on and on about the points they scored and the points they gave up and then try take all credit away from Eli.

Its the complete 180 to your attempts to elevate Sanchez's pathetic career 

The real head scratcher is why every Sanchez and Eli post brings you out to make the case for one and against the other.  Arguing with everyone, none who agree with you along the way.  Its kind of funny and sad all at the same time

In 2 conference title games and 2 SBs he was 4-0 without leading his O to more than 20 points in regulation.  He led nothing.

Eli and Sanchez are similar, both played well in their playoff runs and both were led by D.  The difference is Eli's D stepped up in title games and Mark's did not.  Mark is a poor man's Eli, you could win if you had enough talent around him but he's not elevating those around him just like Eli.  If Eli's D doesn't step up and they lose in both conference games Eli would have been gone a long time ago.

[jack48]

On 4/29/2019 at 2:02 PM, jetstream23 said:

Interesting analysis.

I think Italian food is better than Chinese food because China does computer hacking and I trust Tony Soprano more than Jackie Chan.

So there.

 

Or because the name "Shurmur" is full of "u's" and "Gase" rhymes with "Ace".