Daniel Jones vs Sam Darnold

[Philc1]

16 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

My 85-year old mother is better than Hack.... Which begs the question, how in the world does Mac still have a job as an NFL gm??? 

The Johnson Boys suck

[14 in Green]

On 5/1/2019 at 12:53 AM, kelticwizard said:

Jones throws the ball with more velocity than Dwayne Haskins.  His velocity is only 1 mph slower than Pat Mahomes'.  Reports of Jones' arm strength woes are greatly exaggerated.

https://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-NFL-Combine-2008-2017/10243/dh/

 

Best post in the thread.

I know a kid who was in the Giants rookie camp this week. He said Jones has no arm "issues" whatsoever. He said the coaches "loved him, and Jones will be really good pro". Jones was "slinging it every day, and throws a beautiful deep ball". His only issue was missing high on a few intermediate throws.

Reporters and the other guys in the camp were raving about his performance. Why don't we worry about our team, and our QB taking the next step instead of being so smug about him being better then theirs?

[14 in Green]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Still doesn't make him worthy of a # 2 overall pick.  There's good reason why teams hesitate to keep RB's beyond the end of their rookie deals.

And as special as Barkley is, the Giants were still picking 6th the next season.

Where did the Jets pick the year after they took Darnold at #3?

[HelenOfTroy]

3 hours ago, slats said:

Q: How do you feel about your team's execution? 

A: I'm in favor of it. 

On Tampa Bay ending its 26-game losing streak: "Three or four plane crashes and we're in the playoffs."

"We didn't tackle well today but we made up for it by not blocking."

"Emotion is highly overrated in football. My wife Corky is emotional as hell but can't play football worth a damn."

"If you have everyone back from a team that lost 10 games, experience isn't too important."
 

The best one for a Jets site:

On the play of Joe Namath in the Jets' 34-0 victory over Tampa Bay, “Namath is still Namath, but I must say that our guys were nice to him. I noticed when they knocked him down, they helped him to his feet. That was gentlemanly. I thought one stood around long enough to get his autograph.”
 

 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, HelenOfTroy said:

The best one for a Jets site:

On the play of Joe Namath in the Jets' 34-0 victory over Tampa Bay, “Namath is still Namath, but I must say that our guys were nice to him. I noticed when they knocked him down, they helped him to his feet. That was gentlemanly. I thought one stood around long enough to get his autograph.”
 

To give you an idea of how bad Lou Holtz was, he won three games as coach of the Jets.  One was against the Bucs who went 0-14.  Two were against the Bills who went 2-12 with one of their wins coming against the expansion Bucs.  New York Jets Go Rolling Along!

[BroadwayRay]

Jones is a project that even Gettleman said could get the Packers treatment and spend three years on the bench. Darnold is an NFL starter, and he’s younger than Jones. Don’t know why I even responded to this stupid post. 

[Philc1]

I just watched a bunch of tape on Jones.  All his best plays in college were when the wr got open running downfield on either bad coverage or broken coverage 

 

OMFG Giants hahahgahaha 

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Where did the Jets pick the year after they took Darnold at #3?

Around the same spot as the Colts did after Peyton Manning’s rookie year

[BCJet]

15 hours ago, CheezeMCRow said:

Point is Saquon is in a class of his own compared to any other players. There was no one close to Saquon in this draft, but we can't say the same for the other players mentioned, none of whom are considered 'generational' once in a blue moon talents. 

Feel free to disagree but Sam Darnold is as much of a generational talent as Saquan at a much more important position.

Sam "fell" to 3 in the draft as a 20 year old who at draft time had started a total of 3 seasons of football in his life, none of which were with a capable coach.   He then came to the Jets, his 4th year starting, and had a strong rookie season, once again with effectively zero coaching.  He exhibited ball placement and pocket presence that is extraordinarily rare for anyone, let alone a 21 year old kid, and finished the season as the top ranked QB in the league over the last 4 weeks - while playing with Eli McGuire as his RB, backup center, backup guard and backup RT.

 

[nico002]

17 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Feel free to disagree but Sam Darnold is as much of a generational talent as Saquan at a much more important position.

Sam "fell" to 3 in the draft as a 20 year old who at draft time had started a total of 3 seasons of football in his life, none of which were with a capable coach.   He then came to the Jets, his 4th year starting, and had a strong rookie season, once again with effectively zero coaching.  He exhibited ball placement and pocket presence that is extraordinarily rare for anyone, let alone a 21 year old kid, and finished the season as the top ranked QB in the league over the last 4 weeks - while playing with Eli McGuire as his RB, backup center, backup guard and backup RT.

 

Well said. People don’t get that Darnold wasn’t one of these white collar manufactured QBs that have been in a camp since age 10. The guy played linebacker and missed a whole year in high school with a broken foot. In 2016 Darnold almost won the heisman with less than a full year of QB experience. In 2017 he lost half his starters and carried the entire team on his back- look how SC did the year after Darnold left. This is essentially Darnolds rookie year, he’s younger than Jone and Haskins and the same age as Murray. He is the opposite of a topped out player and is making visible strides on a weekly basis. The sky is the limit.

[CheezeMCRow]

There's nothing wrong with Darnold, but he's not a generational prospect. He can be a great qb someday, with the right development, but he's hardly a once in a lifetime player. While his position is important, no doubt, there are qbs similar to darnold pretty much every draft class, whereas there is only one Saquon, that's all. 

Darnold still has to first prove he's even better than the other qbs in his OWN draft class ... It doesn't mean San isn't any good or a great qb prospect, but he's just not generational is all. 

[BCJet]

1 minute ago, CheezeMCRow said:

There's nothing wrong on Darnold, but he's not a generational prospect. He can be a great qb someday, with the right development, but he's hardly a once in a lifetime player. While his position is important, no doubt, there are qbs similar to darnold pretty much every draft class, whereas there is only one Saquon, that's all. It doesn't mean Dsnrkkd isn't any good or a great qb prospect, but he's not generational is all. 

One one Saquan - Gurley, Zeke Elliot, Leveon....

[CheezeMCRow]

I think Darnold can be a wonderful qb, and I get the desperate need for Darnold to be the immediate savior of the franchise which has been barren for a face of the franchise since Namath hung up his cleats, I get that, but let's not also pretend that Sam took the league by storm last year. He was ranked as one of the worst qbs in the league, with only Rosen saving him from being dead last. and it doesn't mean that he won't kick it into another gear and be spectacular, but to make it seem like he's already arrived or is any kind of lock to be a perennial all pro is ridiculous, and more wishing and hoping than based on what we've seen in the field so far. 

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

Well said. People don’t get that Darnold wasn’t one of these white collar manufactured QBs that have been in a camp since age 10. The guy played linebacker and missed a whole year in high school with a broken foot. In 2016 Darnold almost won the heisman with less than a full year of QB experience. In 2017 he lost half his starters and carried the entire team on his back- look how SC did the year after Darnold left. This is essentially Darnolds rookie year, he’s younger than Jone and Haskins and the same age as Murray. He is the opposite of a topped out player and is making visible strides on a weekly basis. The sky is the limit.

I think some of you guys mis-represent Darnolds’ back round as a QB.   Sam played QB in high school, he attended many of the offseason camps for high level recruits, he attended the Nike Elite 11 camp.   Let’s not make it seem that he started playing QB his senior year in H.S.   

[CheezeMCRow]

The great part is new york football fans finally have a legit young qb debate which, God willing for both sides, will hopefully last a decade. The pressure was always going to be on whoever the Giants eventually nabbed as their heir apparent to Eli (and judging by Jones brutal welcome to NY, he's got the character and demeanor to handle it) and now the pressure intensifies for Darnold too who after receiving a long leash and heros welcome to new york by everyone, NOW has to prove he's far better than Jones. Let's face it if Jones turns into a star WITH saquon, it's gonna be on Sam to prove he's something truly special. He was hailed as the greatest qb prospect ever for jets, where Jones has already been dumped on as worthless by media and fans, so Sam has to not only be better than Jones, but has to be much, much better. 

[CheezeMCRow]

35 minutes ago, BCJet said:

One one Saquan - Gurley, Zeke Elliot, Leveon....

There is only one Saquon when you also take into account the kind of person he is too. He's a top character kid, and doesn't have the injury bug of Gurley, the off-field suspension related antics of Zeke, or the me-first attitude of Leveon.

[Grandy]

41 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

There's nothing wrong with Darnold, but he's not a generational prospect. He can be a great qb someday, with the right development, but he's hardly a once in a lifetime player. While his position is important, no doubt, there are qbs similar to darnold pretty much every draft class, whereas there is only one Saquon, that's all. 

Darnold still has to first prove he's even better than the other qbs in his OWN draft class ... It doesn't mean San isn't any good or a great qb prospect, but he's just not generational is all. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/story/_/id/26356006/mcshay-qb-grades-2019-nfl-draft-class-vs-first-rounders-2016

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000922045/article/top-10-qb-prospects-of-past-3-nfl-draft-classes-darnold-no-1?networkId=4595

I get being a skeptic, but cmon.

[CheezeMCRow]

that's all well and good, but you're basing your entire argument on arbitrary grades by ESPN pundits which change with the wind (just check out three years ago how they couldn't stop gushing about Mariota and Winston, i mean, please) .... c'mon now. I'm just saying if Darnold is truly all-world as the greatest qb prospect ever, then he still needs to prove it.

Saquon proved in his first game as a pro that he was one of a kind.

 

[Grandy]

4 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

that's all well and good, but you're basing your entire argument on arbitrary grades by ESPN pundits which change with the wind (just check out three years ago how they couldn't stop gushing about Mariota and Winston, i mean, please) .... c'mon now. I'm just saying if Darnold is truly all-world as the greatest qb prospect ever, then he still needs to prove it.

Saquon proved in his first game as a pro that he was one of a kind.

 

How about proving it over an entire quarter of a season.

[ASH1962]

On 4/29/2019 at 1:34 PM, WayneChrebet80 said:

It will be interesting to see which QB has a better career. I’ll go with Jones simply because the Giants are a better organization and I have no confidence in Gase.

If this thread does not set the record for butt fumbles I don't know what will

the OP needs to find something else to do with his or her time

[WayneChrebet80]

5 minutes ago, Grandy said:

How about proving it over an entire quarter of a season.

Geno Smith had a great 4 game stretch to end the season once. How did that work out?

I think Darnold will be good, but probably not better than Jones

[CheezeMCRow]

Also went 1-3 in these games when the season was long over and the pressure was off (and needed a gimme flub by Josh Allen and their kicker as Buffalo was icing that game too) to even get that one win. No one's saying Darnold won't eventually be a good qb, just saying he's not there now. Darnold had some really good moments, but also had some dreadful moments as most rookies do. 

[Grandy]

5 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

Also went 1-3 in these games when the season was long over and the pressure was off (and needed a gimme flub by Josh Allen and their kicker as Buffalo was icing that game too) to even get that one win. No one's saying Darnold won't eventually be a good qb, just saying he's not there now. Darnold had some really good moments, but also had some dreadful moments as most rookies do. 

Lol, his defense gave up over 130 points in that 4 game span, what can he do without his #1 receiver, half his O-line, his #1 and #2 RBs with the rest of the run game averaging a league worst 2.5 ypc in that span. Its amazing that with all of that going against him he still performed better than even Pat Mahomes in that span.

[CheezeMCRow]

no one's saying Darnold won't be a good qb (well, i guess some are, but I'm not--i think Darnold could be a really good qb for a long time), but it's impossible to point to a few games to finish out the season (including getting blown out in their final game) as any kind of iron clad lock that Sam will be any kind of once in a lifetime talent.

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

I think some of you guys mis-represent Darnolds’ back round as a QB.   Sam played QB in high school, he attended many of the offseason camps for high level recruits, he attended the Nike Elite 11 camp.   Let’s not make it seem that he started playing QB his senior year in H.S.   

Thats all true, but you have to look at the big picture.  Compared to someone like Baker, he's played very little.

Sam was a LB and injured as a junior in HS, so really only started one season in high school.  Then he redshirted and played 2 college seasons before his rookie year. That's 3 seasons of top level playing time.

Baker started 2 full seasons in HS, then started as a true freshman at TT, and then transferred to Oklahoma where he started 3 full seasons.  Thats 6 seasons of top level playing time, double what Sam has had.

Im just saying that Sam, especially given that hes 3 years younger then Baker, is more raw of a prospect then most of top level players who usually start 2/3 years in HS and 3 in college.

[CheezeMCRow]

The debate of Jones v Darnold is gonna be a lot of fun in New York for years, but maybe even more enticing for the 2019 season (since Jones most likely, barring injury or craziness won't even start for real until 2020) is gonna be the battle of the 2018 draft prospects now littered in the AFC East with Darnold, Allen, and Rosen.

Great litmus test and barometer for all three to shine or flame out battling against each other over 6 games  .... likewise, would it surprise anyone if Baker took a step back in his second year with all the loads of increased expectations now facing a very dismal Browns' franchise for like the first time since Kosar was there? There's a lot of assumptions that it's a given the Browns will be unreal with Odell now there, but we shall see how long it takes until we hear rumblings about Odell wanting to be traded to LA, arguing with Baker on the sidelines, and Baker being so clearly thin-skinned that the criticism and weight of expectations really gets to him.

[nico002]

 

[CheezeMCRow]

ha, but in all fairness, Gil Brandt also compared Daniel Jones to Peyton Manning too, so y'know. None of it means anything until these guys prove it first in the NFL ... likewise, right before the draft last year, Chris Simms had Darnold ranked as his fifth best qb in the class, even behind Lamar Jackson, saying Darnold doesn't do any one thing that's exceptional compared to the other guys, so gotta take it all with a grain of salt.

[nico002]

11 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

ha, but in all fairness, Gil Brandt also compared Daniel Jones to Peyton Manning too, so y'know. None of it means anything until these guys prove it first in the NFL ... likewise, right before the draft last year, Chris Simms had Darnold ranked as his fifth best qb in the class, even behind Lamar Jackson, saying Darnold doesn't do any one thing that's exceptional compared to the other guys, so gotta take it all with a grain of salt.

Gil Brandt put out that ridiculous press release as a favor to help the Giants sell the pick to the fan base. 

[CheezeMCRow]

 

Just now, nico002 said:

Gil Brandt put out that ridiculous press release as a favor to help the Giants sell the pick to the fan base. 

umm yeah that's what it was, because Brandt, a longtime Dallas Cowboys front office guy, and head of their talent evaluation department forever just LOVES the Giants???  ...  For the record, Brandt came out with those Peyton comparison comments BEFORE the giants even drafted him. 

[section314]

36 minutes ago, CheezeMCRow said:

ha, but in all fairness, Gil Brandt also compared Daniel Jones to Peyton Manning too, so y'know. None of it means anything until these guys prove it first in the NFL ... likewise, right before the draft last year, Chris Simms had Darnold ranked as his fifth best qb in the class, even behind Lamar Jackson, saying Darnold doesn't do any one thing that's exceptional compared to the other guys, so gotta take it all with a grain of salt.

If there is anyone who knows something about not doing any one thing that is exceptional, it's Chris Simms. Must have been watching his old tapes.

[Apache 51]

On 4/29/2019 at 1:34 PM, WayneChrebet80 said:

It will be interesting to see which QB has a better career. I’ll go with Jones simply because the Giants are a better organization and I have no confidence in Gase.

Lol.....

[CheezeMCRow]

7 minutes ago, section314 said:

If there is anyone who knows something about not doing any one thing that is exceptional, it's Chris Simms. Must have been watching his old tapes.

Exactly spot on .... which is why fans of any team can't take ANYTHING draft-niks spout off as gospel as anything more substantial or relevant than what the average fan thinks.

Let's not forget, Pat Mahomes had all sorts of naysayers calling him a boom or bust project when Chiefs traded up to get him. Ya just never know.

[HelenOfTroy]

3 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I think some of you guys mis-represent Darnolds’ back round as a QB.   Sam played QB in high school, he attended many of the offseason camps for high level recruits, he attended the Nike Elite 11 camp.   Let’s not make it seem that he started playing QB his senior year in H.S.   

Only his senior year of HS, because he had to.  Told that was what he had to do to get scholarship offers.  We lucked out because, USC was his dream school, and that was the offer he wanted.  

* Just to add...out here, these QBs start very young with private QB coaches (BIG business out here), the camps and 7 on 7s before high school.  Don’t know if it’s the same out there on that coast, but I know the kids that are being groomed out there to be QBs, come out here to train with private coaches.  Weather makes it possible to train year round.

I don’t know of a single California QB that had as little private training and camps than Sam, in over 20 years.

[HelenOfTroy]

Damn, some of you guys act just as entitled, harshly critical of even your good players and just damn focused on crapping on all/any positive news and ranking for the players on your team, as my USC guys.   

Double damn.

All you lack is the winning tradition, the storied history and multiple great players that might not have come in highly heralded, but ended as heroes, even during the bad, bad times.  

Some people enjoy being miserable, even when there is hope.  Andy Dufresne would have told some of you to just STFU.  Lol.  

?