In hindsight, how awesome was that Jets/Colts trade for Darnold?

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Allen’s arm talent is off the charts but the fact is is that he had trouble reading Div III D’s at Wyoming, was inaccurate and for all the hype never even put up many points in college big plays here and there aside.

I’m pretty sure he’d be the Jet QB right now if the Giants picked Darnold.  I just don’t think Woody would have wanted Rosen based on his political leanings.

So very good chance, if Allen busts, that the 3 #2’a shipped to the Colts by what’s-his-name? Mac something would be swirling around the same septic tank containing over 90% of Mac-something’s other decisions made for the Jets. I would have rather Allen have happened than if Mac-something’s Plan A had gone through, emptying the Jet vault for a guy who is 4-26 against teams with Winning records, Cousins...but Mac-something probably didn’t even know that haha.

Again, where is he?  Season about to start.  Anyone offer him a Janitor’s job?

I was talking about the reference someone made about Sam’s accuracy issues. 

[Mike135]

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Imagine if Andrew Luck decided to retire before the 2018 draft. We would not have Sam Darnold right now. Talk about a trade looking great for the Colts, some even comparing it to highway robbery, only to have your Franchise QB that allowed you to even make such a trade retire a year later. 

That gotta hurt. 

Welp, I guess we won that trade! 

[ljr]

Yes. The Jets have 5-6 legit NFL players. The Colts have a roster. I’d make the best of it this year, then since I have a roster I’d throw whatever draft capital I have to at getting a QB next year.
Colts have a good situation, all things considered.

Disagree


Looks like I read his post right @Crusher!



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jetpain]

Colts had all those additional second round picks and knowing Lucks injury history they should have taken a flyer on a QB. Maybe a Mason Rudolph or some one else .

[Integrity28]

 

50 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

No sure thing you get a good QB in any particular draft. There will be major competition for Tua/Lawrence.

Jets have the hardest piece to find in football and he’s still a baby.  

If it's no sure thing you get a good QB in any draft - then how have you already reached the conclusion that we did with Darnold?

No... the truth is, we "think" and "hope" we have the hardest piece to find in football.

Darnold hasn't done anything that Geno didn't do for a month. Or Billy Volek years back. Or countless other QBs that have come and gone. 1 good month does not make a franchise QB. Fingers crossed he gets to that point, but he's not there yet. Arguing that he is is just the type of delusion born out of hope and desperation, which is understandable. Darnold could just as easily be Bortles, Derek Carr or Andy Dalton. We have to wait and see honestly.

Either way, in the meantime our roster is dookie. So, in my opinion, I'd rather have a loaded roster with a guy like Brissett for a year, then go for Tua or Lawrewnce next year, than Sam and the need to spend 3-4 seasons of building around him. This is nothing against Sam, I'm speaking purely from the standpoint of what gets you there faster. I think the Colts situation is more immediately fixable.

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Then he turns around and pays Fitztragic. 

Dude should have been fired the moment he allowed Fitz to bend him over for an entire offseason as well as drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round. 

Dude has to be one of the worst Jets GM's of all time. 

[Integrity28]

Also, look around the league... the QB isn't as hard to "find" as some of you make it sound. Hall of fame QBs maybe, but there league is pretty stacked at good QBs. It has been hard for the JETS to do, because we're an organization that would drink our own urine within the first hour of being stuck on an elevator.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then he turns around and pays Fitztragic. 

Dude should have been fired the moment he allowed Fitz to bend him over for an entire offseason as well as drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round. 

Dude has to be one of the worst Jets GM's of all time. 

Agreed. It's quite amazing that they had THE worst of all time, then hired possibly the 2nd worst immediately after... at the council of Charlie Casserly (who is a punchline to BB).

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then he turns around and pays Fitztragic. 

Dude should have been fired the moment he allowed Fitz to bend him over for an entire offseason as well as drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round. 

Can't argue with that.  However remember there was an insane amount of support for re-signing Fitz.  Right here on this board too.

I wouldn't doubt it became such an important factor for Woody trying to sell tickets, that Macc was pressured into re-signing Fitz.

The Fitz-love that offseason was sickening.

[Integrity28]

8 minutes ago, ljr said:

 

Disagree


Looks like I read his post right @Crusher!



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

That's cool. I'm just stating my point of view, I don't expect everyone to agree - and ain't trying to change anyone's mind.

[GreenFish]

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Trust, we all know this. Even I was concerned about the trade given that Macc gave up all of that capital to make a trade that didnt guarantee him the player that he coveted. 

Folks made it some sort of foregone conclusion that the Giants were most definitely going Barkley. Even though they did, the fact that they could have just as easily picked Darnold confirmed that it was indeed dumb luck on the part of Macc. 

Im really just concentrating on the part where the Colts got screwed a year later. 

Ironically, this situation shows what we both spoke about briefly about Bridgewater. You need 2 QB's in this league. You just never know what will happen. Brissett isnt a top 16 QB in the league, but he's better than whatever the Redskins are going to field and I would take him over Joe Flacco as well. 

They're not totally burnt, but man...it's rare that situations like this break in the Jets favor. 

In hindsight, Gettlemen doesnt hold things close to the vest. All the rumors prior the draft were that the Giants were in love with Barkley. Everyone thought it was a smoke screen. 

Fast forward to 2019. Everyone thinks the Giants being tied to Daniel Jones is a smoke screen to get someone to jump them. And...Daniel Jones is the pick. 

Note for 2020, if the Giants are tied to a player, that's the player they want. 

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Agreed. It's quite amazing that they had THE worst of all time, then hired possibly the 2nd worst immediately after... at the council of Charlie Casserly (who is a punchline to BB).

I seriously couldnt believe it when he gave Fitz that contract, then seeing stupid pics of him Decker, Mangold and Marshall. And what made it even more comical is how Fitz started the season in 16' (6 interceptions vs KC??? lol) before rightfully being benched for his terrible play...only for Geno to start, get hurt then watch as the Jets win the game against the Ravens with Fitz at QB and watch as Fitz had the audacity to throw the front office under the bus after post game! 

 

Talk about just "out of control nonsense". Glad that dude is the hell up outta here. That was when Gase got some props from me, though he still a long way to go. I'll take our chances with Joe Douglas though. 

[Villain The Foe]

11 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Can't argue with that.  However remember there was an insane amount of support for re-signing Fitz.  Right here on this board too.

I wouldn't doubt it became such an important factor for Woody trying to sell tickets, that Macc was pressured into re-signing Fitz.

The Fitz-love that offseason was sickening.

I remember. It was indeed, insane. 

[Villain The Foe]

9 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

In hindsight, Gettlemen doesnt hold things close to the vest. All the rumors prior the draft were that the Giants were in love with Barkley. Everyone thought it was a smoke screen. 

Fast forward to 2019. Everyone thinks the Giants being tied to Daniel Jones is a smoke screen to get someone to jump them. And...Daniel Jones is the pick. 

Note for 2020, if the Giants are tied to a player, that's the player they want. 

You could be on to something. I knew that Barkley was tied to the Giants, I had no clue about Jones though. 

That pick was like the shot heard around the world. I went from shocked to laughing because of the amount of balls it took to do that sh*t. I liked Jones, but I wouldnt have pulled the trigger at that pick. 

[Losmeister]

7 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I remember. It was indeed, insane. 

wasnt here then, but is upported resigning Fitz..  31 TDs...   good rapp w/ Decks and Marshall..???

 

[Philc1]

I told the guys at work last year (we are in Indy) who were laughing at me saying they fleeced the Jets you may want Darnold Instead

 

whoops

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

I was talking about the reference someone made about Sam’s accuracy issues. 

When all is said and done in Darnold’s career he will lead the league in hitting dime throws over everyone else.  Not much to talk about regarding Darnold and accuracy...and he’s still only learning at 22.

 

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

When all is said and done in Darnold’s career he will lead the league in hitting dime throws over everyone else.  Not much to talk about regarding Darnold and accuracy...and he’s still only learning at 22.

 

That was my point and agreed. 

I was responding to this. 

 

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Sam had accuracy  issues as well and I believe they found something in his throwing motion or how he setup and he got much better. I do hope Allen sucks because  he is in our division so hopefully  nobody is doing this with him. 

 

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Not sure how much a issue his inaccuracy was. He did have trouble with the long ball but always had nice touch Sam’s most noticeable issue come out was fumbling away the ball. They fixed that pretty quick. 

Allen is cyborg-like monster with the potential to be good to unstoppable. But, his accuracy issues show up everywhere in his game and was literally the biggest ding on him coming out. 

 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

because we're an organization that would drink our own urine within the first hour of being stuck on an elevator.

Let's be honest here, you drink your own urine to avoid the 20 step walk to the bathroom

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

wasnt here then, but is upported resigning Fitz..  31 TDs...   good rapp w/ Decks and Marshall..???

I didnt, and got absolutely crucified for it especially after I made a thread calling Fitz a "Max 6 win QB" during the season and the Jets eventually went on to go 10-6 and miss the playoffs given Fitz 3 INT's in the 2nd half against the Bills. 

For a second there Fitz had me eating my words, and the entire forum loved taking their turn in order to let me know about it throughout that 2015 season as well as the following offseason.
 

However, I held steadfast to the cycle, knowing that it would come to pass. ?

My point was made when the following season, THE MOMENT HE GOT PAID, Fitz had just 3 wins on the season and ended his career as a Jet averaging 6.5 wins per season. That offseason was very enjoyable for me. Those were the good'ol days. Talk about brutal? But it was fun.  

[Losmeister]

11 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

When all is said and done in Darnold’s career he will lead the league in hitting dime throws over everyone else.  Not much to talk about regarding Darnold and accuracy...and he’s still only learning at 22.

 

i sure as eff hope yer right

 

[Losmeister]

17 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

However, I held steadfast to the cycle, knowing that it would come to pass. ?

My point was made when the following season, THE MOMENT HE GOT PAID, Fitz had just 3 wins on the season and ended his career as a Jet averaging 6.5 wins per season. That offseason was very enjoyable for me. Those were the good'ol days. Talk about brutal? But it was fun.  

well, my take was " the offense was watchable for the first time since 2010"..   shrug...

[Villain The Foe]

43 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

well, my take was " the offense was watchable for the first time since 2010"..   shrug...

Dont get me wrong. That was one of the three most enjoyable seasons, "just as a Jets fan" I had of the 2000's. 

I still have to keep in mind who this guy is though. 

It's Fitzmagic, and that magic will play tricks on you. 

[CanadaSteve]

5 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Let's not kid ourselves. Mac panicked and got dumb-lucky with Darnold. The Colts were executing their plan and got screwed a year later, but still have a stocked team and a very good backup QB with starting experience for both the Colts and Pats. We just have Sam, and no way to support him.

I'd still take the Colts situation at this point. Jets supporting cast is just as likely to ruin Sam as they are to see him flourish.

I mean, what the actual F.......

[batman10023]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then he turns around and pays Fitztragic. 

Dude should have been fired the moment he allowed Fitz to bend him over for an entire offseason as well as drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round. 

Dude has to be one of the worst Jets GM's of all time. 

The guy he replaced begs to differ

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

 

Darnold hasn't done anything that Geno didn't do for a month. Or Billy Volek years back. Or countless other QBs that have come and gone. 1 good month does not make a franchise QB. Fingers crossed he gets to that point, but he's not there yet. Arguing that he is is just the type of delusion born out of hope and desperation, which is understandable. Darnold could just as easily be Bortles, Derek Carr or Andy Dalton. 

Pure nonsense.

Darnold led the league in QBR over the the last quarter of the NFL season as the youngest opening day starter in league history. Geno never did anything like that. 

 

[Integrity28]

43 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Pure nonsense.

Darnold led the league in QBR over the the last quarter of the NFL season as the youngest opening day starter in league history. Geno never did anything like that. 

 

Not exactly like that, but to the point I was making we did see a great month of QB play from Geno which he never translated into anything else. We’ve seen it from tons of QBs over time in the league. Not acknowledging it is silly. It’s how things go in the nfl.

I love Sam. Love the promise he brings. But he’s not a proven franchise QB after 4 good games. That, my man, is the nonsense in all this.

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I think Allen still has the highest ceiling of anyone in that class but the Bill's are just such a bad team at this point. 

Based on what exactly?

[Rangers9]

The idea of giving Macc no credit for any good move or saying he was lucky when a player he signed worked out is nonsense. The trade for Sam was a great deal one of the all time best in Jets history and it was totally Macc’s deal. It wasn’t luck it was skill. He’s had other good signings like Robby Anderson, etc. If you want to say overall his draft record etc was poor for a GM ok I’d agree with that. More minuses than pluses yes. But the Sam deal was an A+.

[slimjasi]

15 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Not exactly like that, but to the point I was making we did see a great month of QB play from Geno which he never translated into anything else. We’ve seen it from tons of QBs over time in the league. Not acknowledging it is silly. It’s how things go in the nfl.

I love Sam. Love the promise he brings. But he’s not a proven franchise QB after 4 good games. That, my man, is the nonsense in all this.

I'm not arguing that he is a proven franchise QB, but I think the likelihood of him becoming one is very high. He has all the physical tools you look for, an awesome demeanor, and quite significantly, the elite trait of being able to avoid pressure with his legs and make big throws down the field once the play breaks down. 

The Colts don't have a guy like that right now. We do. I'll take my chances with Sam. 

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I'm not arguing that he is a proven franchise QB, but I think the likelihood of him becoming one is very high. He has all the physical tools you look for, an awesome demeanor, and quite significantly, the elite trait of being able to avoid pressure with his legs and make big throws down the field once the play breaks down. 

The Colts don't have a guy like that right now. We do. I'll take my chances with Sam. 

I don’t dispute that he looks the part. Never said he didn’t. The moral of the story here is that I’d rather have a great roster with the resources to go after a prospect better than Sam next year, than Sam surrounded by mostly trash and a roster that will require a couple years worth of work.

You don’t have to agree. Jets fans over-index on the impossible nature of finding a QB because the Jets haven’t, but look around the league. It’s mostly a Jets problem.

[Integrity28]

18 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

The idea of giving Macc no credit for any good move or saying he was lucky when a player he signed worked out is nonsense. The trade for Sam was a great deal one of the all time best in Jets history and it was totally Macc’s deal. It wasn’t luck it was skill. He’s had other good signings like Robby Anderson, etc. If you want to say overall his draft record etc was poor for a GM ok I’d agree with that. More minuses than pluses yes. But the Sam deal was an A+.

lol

Heimerdinger put the deal together.

Robby is your next best example?

Etc. Lololol

[BROOKLYN JET]

I hope Fitz is on the Giants next year to "backup" Daniel Jones.

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

 

If it's no sure thing you get a good QB in any draft - then how have you already reached the conclusion that we did with Darnold?

No... the truth is, we "think" and "hope" we have the hardest piece to find in football.

Darnold hasn't done anything that Geno didn't do for a month. Or Billy Volek years back. Or countless other QBs that have come and gone. 1 good month does not make a franchise QB. Fingers crossed he gets to that point, but he's not there yet. Arguing that he is is just the type of delusion born out of hope and desperation, which is understandable. Darnold could just as easily be Bortles, Derek Carr or Andy Dalton. We have to wait and see honestly.

Either way, in the meantime our roster is dookie. So, in my opinion, I'd rather have a loaded roster with a guy like Brissett for a year, then go for Tua or Lawrewnce next year, than Sam and the need to spend 3-4 seasons of building around him. This is nothing against Sam, I'm speaking purely from the standpoint of what gets you there faster. I think the Colts situation is more immediately fixable.

If you cant just watch Darnold and see the gigantic chasm of talent and ability over Geno and Sanchz I dont know what to say. Let's think about it

Arm strength Darnold >=Geno>Sanchez

Footwork Darnold > Sanchez >>Geno

Short Accuracy (swing passes/screens) Darnold (see TD pass last night)>>>Geno>>Sanchez (maybe worst screen passer of a Jets starter ever)

Release speed Darnold > Sanchez > Geno

Movement in pocket Darnold >> Sanchez >> Geno

Ball Security Darnold > Sanchez .=Geno

Scrambling Geno>Darnold>=Sanchez

Deep Ball Sanchez > Darnold >Geno

Work Ethic Darnold>>>Geno/Sanchez

Leadership Darnold=Sanchez>>>Geno

Throwing on the run Darnold=Mahomes=Rodgers>>>>Sanchez>>Geno (Genos worst attribute, Darnold's best)

Football intelligence Darnold >Sanchez>>Geno

Medium Accuracy Darnold>Sanchez=Geno

Creativity/Improvization Darnold>>Sanchez>>>>Geno (behind the back fumble anyone)

 

So again  Sanchez and Geno were competent QBs and Darnold is essentially better to MUCH better than them in pretty much every QB metric.