So why can't Cam Newton find a job?

[Barry McCockinner]

He's coming off a lisfranc injury and can't be brought in for physicals due to covid?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

His shoulder is dead. No other explanation.

Probably.  And even if that's not the case, teams can't get a close look at him right now.

[Losmeister]

51 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

This is an interesting point in regards to Jackson.  I think Jackson greatly improved as a passer last year in terms of his ability to throw.  His throwing motion was refined, his mechanics got better, his overall vision got better.  It's a real credit to him as a player and to the staff in Balt working with him and easing him into his development.  

Now the question is what does he do this year, arguably the best cast he's had around him, he has to develop even more as a passer.  The real test to me will be if Greg Roman gets a HC job in the next few years.  He has a track record now of developing these dual threat QB's and creating an offense where they can thrive. Kaeps drop off came after Roman was gone. I dont think its a coincidence that he had his best years under Roman, then immediately after he leaves at the end of the 2014 season Kaeps numbers nose dive.  So I'm also really interested to see Jackson if he continues to develop, what happens when Roman leaves.. Does he stay on track and prove he's the player many think he can be, or is his success largely due to Greg Roman?  

kaeps nosedive has more to do with no more Frank Gore, and no more Vernon Davis and no more Crabtree and no more Harbaugh imho

    he was good in college too, as was LJ, so I dont attribute their success to the coach...   he DOES know that type of offense, but he didnt invent it....  they are good players. (was a good player, in Kaeps case...)

Kaeps slingshot throw motion was always weird

[GKnight83]

I will go with maybe he puts more effort into choosing a hat than preparing for a game.

[Losmeister]

but, yeah LJ will need to continue to develop as a passer

[predator_05]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

This is a tough time to be a veteran quarterback.  There just arent as many open positions due to the influx of young QB talent around the league.  I do think Cam is a better QB option than some of the starters out there, provided he is fully healthy.  I think he can do as good a job for SF as Jimmy G has done, i think he can certainly be better than Trubisky in CHI.  Outside of that what other teams are looking for QBs?  In truth obviously SF looks at Jimmy G as thier guy so really the only teams that have QB comps going on would be CHI and prob JAX. Everywhere else there is either an established starter or young qb the franchise is banking on. 

He has to read the room and take a backup job even though i do think he can start and be successful, he's just never going to be a top 10 guy in the league, and truthfully no one wants to pay the amount he wants to be a below top 10 talent at the position.  

 

There's always a market for backup QBs. In fact, adding depth at the QB position is a legitimate strategy across the league. It used to be an after-thought.

If cam was capable of playing, he'd be on a team already. No doubt about it. Every former starting QB got a back-up gig; see dalton, winston, mariota, foles.

If cam hasn't been hired, there must be something seriously wrong with him. My guess is, teams watched every snap he played between his 2 shoulder treatments - and rightly concluded that his arm is shot. Even if he was healthy, kyle allen probably would have started ahead of him last year.

Maybe he can rehabilitate and come back in 2021. But as of now, he can't play. And teams know it.

 

[Chrebetfan80]

17 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

kaeps nosedive has more to do with no more Frank Gore, and no more Vernon Davis and no more Crabtree and no more Harbaugh imho

    he was good in college too, as was LJ, so I dont attribute their success to the coach...   he DOES know that type of offense, but he didnt invent it....  they are good players. (was a good player, in Kaeps case...)

Kaeps slingshot throw motion was always weird

I think it has less to do with Harbaugh and more to do with Roman to be honest.  Harbaugh outside of Kaep has yet to have a QB play as well in any of his systems.  The system of developing a zone read offense with play action based off of it isnt anything new, but Greg Roman does a fantastic job of developing these run schemes and balancing play action off of it and also is an excellent play caller.   So to me he was more of a factor in that success, than Harbaugh, just my opinion.  

I agree that losing key offensive weapons helped contribute to the decline, anytime you lose weapons your efficiency is going to drop off.  Also mechanically he never progressed to improve accuracy and consistency.  

I would also argue the point of them being good college players, hence success in the nfl even for a small period of time.  We certainly can find multiple examples of where good collegiate players do not translate to the nfl in terms of playing success. To me a large portion of player success at the next level is 1) their own ability to adapt their game to the nfl style, 2) the situation they are put into, and 3)the coaching they receive. 

Kaep, as well as Jackson right now are in a favorable position in 2 of those 3 criteria.. The one question would be how they adapt their games to be more successful at the NFL level.  So far Jackson has done a good job of that more so than Kaep. 

 

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

31 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

kaeps nosedive has more to do with no more Frank Gore, and no more Vernon Davis and no more Crabtree and no more Harbaugh imho

    he was good in college too, as was LJ, so I dont attribute their success to the coach...   he DOES know that type of offense, but he didnt invent it....  they are good players. (was a good player, in Kaeps case...)

Kaeps slingshot throw motion was always weird

 

2 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I think it has less to do with Harbaugh and more to do with Roman to be honest.  Harbaugh outside of Kaep has yet to have a QB play as well in any of his systems.  The system of developing a zone read offense with play action based off of it isnt anything new, but Greg Roman does a fantastic job of developing these run schemes and balancing play action off of it and also is an excellent play caller.   So to me he was more of a factor in that success, than Harbaugh, just my opinion.  

I agree that losing key offensive weapons helped contribute to the decline, anytime you lose weapons your efficiency is going to drop off.  Also mechanically he never progressed to improve accuracy and consistency.  

I would also argue the point of them being good college players, hence success in the nfl even for a small period of time.  We certainly can find multiple examples of where good collegiate players do not translate to the nfl in terms of playing success. To me a large portion of player success at the next level is 1) their own ability to adapt their game to the nfl style, 2) the situation they are put into, and 3)the coaching they receive. 

Kaep, as well as Jackson right now are in a favorable position in 2 of those 3 criteria.. The one question would be how they adapt their games to be more successful at the NFL level.  So far Jackson has done a good job of that more so than Kaep. 

 

You guys do realize its two different Harbaughs you're talking about, right?

[Chrebetfan80]

12 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

There's always a market for backup QBs. In fact, adding depth at the QB position is a legitimate strategy across the league. It used to be an after-thought.

If cam was capable of playing, he'd be on a team already. No doubt about it. Every former starting QB got a back-up gig; see dalton, winston, mariota, foles.

If cam hasn't been hired, there must be something seriously wrong with him. My guess is, teams watched every snap he played between his 2 shoulder treatments - and rightly concluded that his arm is shot. Even if he was healthy, kyle allen probably would have started ahead of him last year.

Maybe he can rehabilitate and come back in 2021. But as of now, he can't play. And teams know it.

 

I think its a misnomer to just classify it as he's not healthy enough and NFL teams know it. 

I do think that it plays a part that with Covid he hasn't been able to get to facilities and take a physical.  That obviously plays a very large role in this, but I also think it is that he is reluctant truly to take a pure backup role.  

[Bugg]

Newton will get signed. Some team will open camp and either determine their starter isn't that good, or a starter has a bad injury. But Newton did not help himself by being a pain in the ass 24/7 to Ron Rivera, who is one of the most respected head coaches in the NFL. 

[Losmeister]

20 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I think it has less to do with Harbaugh and more to do with Roman to be honest.  Harbaugh outside of Kaep has yet to have a QB play as well in any of his systems.  The system of developing a zone read offense with play action based off of it isnt anything new, but Greg Roman does a fantastic job of developing these run schemes and balancing play action off of it and also is an excellent play caller.   So to me he was more of a factor in that success, than Harbaugh, just my opinion.  

I agree that losing key offensive weapons helped contribute to the decline, anytime you lose weapons your efficiency is going to drop off.  Also mechanically he never progressed to improve accuracy and consistency.  

I would also argue the point of them being good college players, hence success in the nfl even for a small period of time.  We certainly can find multiple examples of where good collegiate players do not translate to the nfl in terms of playing success. To me a large portion of player success at the next level is 1) their own ability to adapt their game to the nfl style, 2) the situation they are put into, and 3)the coaching they receive. 

Kaep, as well as Jackson right now are in a favorable position in 2 of those 3 criteria.. The one question would be how they adapt their games to be more successful at the NFL level.  So far Jackson has done a good job of that more so than Kaep. 

i've argued this many times. coaching HELPS. the majority of it is the players skill level....and that is down to luck (genetics), hard work,

ternacity/will/drive and a little more luck.

sanders was great on a sh*t team. so was oj. theres many more examples. jmo

[PS17]

Pittsburgh and Buffalo make the most sense. 

[Losmeister]

Just now, PS17 said:

Pittsburgh and Buffalo make the most sense. 

not sure these steel towns appreciate the cut of his jib...

 

[Chrebetfan80]

34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

You guys do realize its two different Harbaughs you're talking about, right?

Are we?  I was under the assumption we were both discussing Jim Harbaugh, during his time in SF. 

Hence why he referenced Frank gore, Vernon Davis, and Crabtree.  and then Harbaugh leaving SF which coincided with the decline of Kaep in 2015.  I argued it was Greg Roman leaving as more of a factor in Kaeps decline as evidence now in his development of Lamar Jackson.   So my hypothesis is that Greg Roman is playing a large factor in the development and success of mobile quarterbacks namely Kaep and Jackson.  My original thought was I would be interesting to see how Lamar Jackson would play and the success he would have with Greg Roman leaving for a HC job, considering we saw a steep decline in Kaeps play after he left SF in 2015.

Maybe I am clueless? I have been doing alot of budgeting today so my brain could be fried, but i have not at anytime believed we are talking about two different Harbaughs. 

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Are we?  I was under the assumption we were both discussing Jim Harbaugh, during his time in SF. 

Hence why he referenced Frank gore, Vernon Davis, and Crabtree.  and then Harbaugh leaving SF which coincided with the decline of Kaep in 2015.  I argued it was Greg Roman leaving as more of a factor in Kaeps decline as evidence now in his development of Lamar Jackson.   So my hypothesis is that Greg Roman is playing a large factor in the development and success of mobile quarterbacks namely Kaep and Jackson.  My original thought was I would be interesting to see how Lamar Jackson would play and the success he would have with Greg Roman leaving for a HC job, considering we saw a steep decline in Kaeps play after he left SF in 2015.

Maybe I am clueless? I have been doing alot of budgeting today so my brain could be fried, but i have not at anytime believed we are talking about two different Harbaughs. 

swing and a miss @Jetsfan80

 

[Losmeister]

4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

would be interesting to see how Lamar Jackson would play and the success he would have with Greg Roman leaving for a HC job,

fwiw, i still believe that the above statemnet IS INTERESTING

even more so if the current Balt HC Harbaugh, the best Rb, the favorite/best TE and the favorite/best WR also left at the same time...

[jmat321]

2 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

This is an interesting point in regards to Jackson.  I think Jackson greatly improved as a passer last year in terms of his ability to throw.  His throwing motion was refined, his mechanics got better, his overall vision got better.  It's a real credit to him as a player and to the staff in Balt working with him and easing him into his development.  

Now the question is what does he do this year, arguably the best cast he's had around him, he has to develop even more as a passer.  The real test to me will be if Greg Roman gets a HC job in the next few years.  He has a track record now of developing these dual threat QB's and creating an offense where they can thrive. Kaeps drop off came after Roman was gone. I dont think its a coincidence that he had his best years under Roman, then immediately after he leaves at the end of the 2014 season Kaeps numbers nose dive.  So I'm also really interested to see Jackson if he continues to develop, what happens when Roman leaves.. Does he stay on track and prove he's the player many think he can be, or is his success largely due to Greg Roman?  

I watched a lot of him last year.  Everything seemed predicated on the Zone read.  Not sold on him.  Roman IMO gets a couple good seasons out of these QBs, so I expect another good season from him.  

[Jetsfan80]

18 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Are we?  I was under the assumption we were both discussing Jim Harbaugh, during his time in SF. 

Hence why he referenced Frank gore, Vernon Davis, and Crabtree.  and then Harbaugh leaving SF which coincided with the decline of Kaep in 2015.  I argued it was Greg Roman leaving as more of a factor in Kaeps decline as evidence now in his development of Lamar Jackson.   So my hypothesis is that Greg Roman is playing a large factor in the development and success of mobile quarterbacks namely Kaep and Jackson.  My original thought was I would be interesting to see how Lamar Jackson would play and the success he would have with Greg Roman leaving for a HC job, considering we saw a steep decline in Kaeps play after he left SF in 2015.

Maybe I am clueless? I have been doing alot of budgeting today so my brain could be fried, but i have not at anytime believed we are talking about two different Harbaughs. 

 

14 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

swing and a miss @Jetsfan80

 

 

John Harbaugh has as much to do with the offensive system in Baltimore as Jim Harbaugh had in San Francisco.  Which is to say they both had a LOT to do with it for their respective teams. 

Greg Roman has only been OC in Baltimore for 1 season (he was assistant HC/TE coach during Lamar Jackson's rookie season).  Hence why it seemed strange to only be talking about Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman on this topic.  John installed the system that Roman runs, not so much the other way around.

[Beerfish]

I'll say one thing for Cam Newton and Ron Rivera for that matter.  I always thought they had a legit beef with the refs not protecting newton like other QBs were protected.  And I'm not talking about him running and getting hit.  I am talking about him getting hit late even if rolling out or in the pocket. 

I say this as being no particular newton fan or carolina fan.

Also I'd rather have cam Newton as a back up than Flacco if the price was the same.

[Prez33]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

They say you should dress for the job you want.

Maybe he's not applying for the right position.

That outfit is just....wow. 

[Losmeister]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

John Harbaugh has as much to do with the offensive system in Baltimore as Jim Harbaugh had in San Francisco.  Which is to say they both had a LOT to do with it for their respective teams. 

Greg Roman has only been OC in Baltimore for 1 season (he was assistant HC/TE coach during Lamar Jackson's rookie season).  Hence why it seemed strange to only be talking about Jim Harbaugh and Greg Roman on this topic.  John installed the system that Roman runs, not so much the other way around.

i certainly am not the one tooting the Roman horn.

Kape lost HC/OC/RB/TE/WR all at once

[nyjunc]

3 hours ago, Hael said:

I always felt he was one of the most overrated players in recent memory.
He was only good one year (in fact only great for about eight games that season), and even then if you watched tape the successes were largely off bad decisions (eg tds of jump balls into double coverage)

He is one of the greatest running qbs in history but that’s only a small fraction of what makes a good qb and he’s lackluster in most other domains.  Eg he makes terrible decisions, is innacurate, doesn’t have a great mental and is a poor leader.  Now with the injuries, it’s hard to see if he’s even starting viable.

I remember thinking when the media was busy kissing his ass that they had it upside down..  that the really amazing running qb at the time was Russel Wilson who’s tape was just many levels beyond, but was stuck with a terrible supporting cast.

I think he was underrated, he was an outstanding QB for a while without a lot of talent around him.

He's out of a job right now because of his injuries in recent years.  He hasn't been healthy and hasn't been himself plus he was released late and teams have their starters set.

[More Cowbell]

Need I say more

[Lot K Tailgaters]

Based on recent performance he’s a backup QB but he probably wouldn’t be ok being a backup.  I couldn’t see him helping a young QB in this league.  

[jmat321]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

What a disappointment Lamar Jackson will be to have only had a 12 year career!

 Of course he will, same can be said for Cam and RG3.  History tells us that dual threat qbs don’t last in terms of level of play.  Been hearing since Cunningham how the game is changing, but it really hasn’t.  Those guys still get banged up and slow down.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jmat321 said:

 Of course he will, same can be said for Cam and RG3.  History tells us that dual threat qbs don’t last in terms of level of play.  Been hearing since Cunningham how the game is changing, but it really hasn’t.  Those guys still get banged up and slow down.

So you're saying a 12-year career would make him a disappointment?  That was, after all, the quote you replied to.

[Losmeister]

1 minute ago, jmat321 said:

 Of course he will, same can be said for Cam and RG3.  History tells us that dual threat qbs don’t last in terms of level of play.  Been hearing since Cunningham how the game is changing, but it really hasn’t.  Those guys still get banged up and slow down.

if i understand correctly...    RC is the exception. As he was in the NFL for 16 yrs

[jmat321]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So you're saying a 12-year career would make him a disappointment?  That was, after all, the quote you replied to.

Geno Smith is on track to play 10 years

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

Geno Smith is on track to play 10 years

We're not talking about as a backup.  Are you going to answer the question?

[JetsFanShawn]

cause no one wants to take that risk of em running and getting hurt

[Losmeister]

39 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

Geno Smith is on track to play 10 years

did he win an mvp?

[Il Mostro]

5 hours ago, nycdan said:

They say you should dress for the job you want.

Maybe he's not applying for the right position.

I am going with his shoe collection.  You cannot deny, the man has his priorities.

[munchmemory]

3 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

I am going with his shoe collection.  You cannot deny, the man has his priorities.

Look, I'm not gay or anything.  But those shoes are just fabulous.  Wait...

[Losmeister]

11 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Look, I'm not gay or anything.  But those shoes are just fabulous.  Wait...

Look, I'm not fabulous or anything, but those shoes are just....

[munchmemory]

3 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Look, I'm not fabulous or anything, but those shoes are just....

Thanks for rolling with it.  I need some laughs today.