Hakeem Butler visits the Jets

[pdxgreen]

Did anybody else bring Butler in?  Of course if we're the only one... not surprised.

[Wonderboy]

20 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Sign them both!

And then cut them both. 

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm sure he does plan on Darnold being "the guy" beyond his rookie deal, and it would take a pretty bad 2020 out of him for that status to change.

But exactly what else would you expect him to say when it comes to Darnold?  If he had said instead "we're constantly evaluating the roster, and that includes everyone in our QB room", there would have been a media/fan firestorm.  

Agreed. 

I think it's obvious that Darnold is the long term plan, but a) Even if he wasn't, the Jets would never publicly say otherwise at this point and b) The Jets obviously have to evaluate him closely in 2020 before giving him a big contract

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Sam has not proven himself to be The Man yet.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Three 2nd rounders and a 1st rounder say YES he is.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Did anybody else bring Butler in?  Of course if we're the only one... not surprised.

I think us being the only ones to bring him in would be better.  It's worse if a team brings a guy as athletic and big as him and still says "no thanks."  lol.

Having said that, I thought I saw that someone else had indeed brought him in for a workout?  Maybe not.

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm sure he does plan on Darnold being "the guy" beyond his rookie deal, and it would take a pretty bad 2020 out of him for that status to change.

But exactly what else would you expect him to say when it comes to Darnold?  If he had said instead "we're constantly evaluating the roster, and that includes everyone in our QB room", there would have been a media/fan firestorm.  

Well JD did focus on the OL in his 1st year as GM to protect Sam....so that’s promising. But why is he signing every QB west of the Mississippi? Looking for that solid back up QB? 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

Well JD did focus on the OL in his 1st year as GM to protect Sam....so that’s promising. But why is he signing every QB west of the Mississippi? Looking for that solid back up QB? 

That's because of Week 1 QB2 uncertainty, not QB1.  Flacco is hurt and Morgan is a rookie who was already raw, and THEN the COVID uncertainty, no preseason and shortened practice schedule happened.

With 16 PS spots it makes perfect sense to use 2 of them on QB's.  I really don't understand the hand wringing over this.  Everyone whined about our lack of a quality QB2 last year, only to whine all over again when Douglas does everything possible to address the issue for 2020.  Did everyone suddenly forget what happened when Darnold went down last season?

[greengeek]

I want Butler for the simple reason that I chose him in Greenbean’s poll and I value being right on a football message board to an inappropriately high degree.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Wonderboy]

10 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Agreed. 

I think it's obvious that Darnold is the long term plan, but a) Even if he wasn't, the Jets would never publicly say otherwise at this point and b) The Jets obviously have to evaluate him closely in 2020 before giving him a big contract

It’s not like they’ve given Sam a recipe to succeed to this point.  2020 will be a telling year for Sam’s future with the Jets. He must show improvement, growth and make better choices as to the women he kisses.

[Patriot Killa]

This is one Cardinals’ fan’s guess/assessment.

When the Cardinals made Iowa St. WR Hakeem Butler the 1st pick ion Day 3 (Round 4) of the 2019 NFL Draft, at #103, there were plenty of reasons for Cardinals’ fans to believe that Butler was a home run pick.

If you recall listening to Kliff Kingsbury’s draft day phone conversation with Hakeem, they were talking like two old friends. Kliff was saying how glad he finally was to have Hakeem on his team, after trying to recruit him to Texas Tech and after watching him help lead the Cyclones to a big 40-31 win over the Red Raiders---check out the 2:20 mark of the game highlights---with Butler catching the go-ahead TD with 2:25 left in the game:

The fact that Kliff knew Hakeem so well, made the pick seem like a can’t miss no-brainer.

Plus, no matter what scouting report one read in 2018 about Hakeem Butler, the common phrase about him as a prospect was “somewhat raw, but has tremendous upside.” PFF had Butler ranked as the #30 best prospect in the draft.

However, if you watch this 3 minute PFF scouting report of Butler, Mike Renner does a superb job of identifying Butler’s limited route tree and inconsistent ability to gain separation in the short and intermediate areas of the field against press man coverage (even against smaller CBs) as top improvement areas---which co-host Steve Palazzio aptly contrasts to D.K. Metcalf’s ability to dominate versus press coverage due to his strength and speed. Plus, Renner and Palazzio alluded to Butler’s 12 drops in 2017 and 17 total drops per 100 catches his final two seasons at Iowa St.
 

There were a number of well respected draft gurus who were not as high on Butler as PFF was---Daniel Jeremiah (NFLN) did not have Butler in his top 50, Dane Brugler (The Athletic) had Butler as his #60 prospect and Lance Zierlein (Scouts. Inc.) had Butler ranked as the #13 WR in the 2019 class.

Chris Simms (NBC Pro Football Talk) offers his concerns about Butler in this “unplugged” video---in which he indicates that he felt that too often when watching Butler run his routes that he was “lumbering” and not getting in and out of his breaks like an NFL caliber WR should--- And that, my Birdgang friends, is very likely what the Cardinals’ WR coaches were most concerned about, especially in trying to run an offense that wants to play fast and free. Listen to what Simms had to say in the first 2 minutes of this video:

 

To be fair to Hakeem Butler, losing his entire rookie season to injury (fractured hand) was a major setback---and then losing out on not having any OTAs or mini-camps this off-season was also a major deterrent---that---and with the Cardinals adding DeAndre Hopkins via the trade and with Andy Isabellaand KeeSean Johnson having learned a great deal how to improve their games after their rookie struggles and coming to camp ahead of the curve this time around, Butler really never had a decent chance to get the number of on the field reps that would allow him to move up the WR ladder in Arizona.

It certainly didn’t help Butler’s cause that draft guru Tony Pauline (The Draft Network) reported during this year’s NFL Combine that the Cardinals were relieved that they were able to place Hakeem Butler on the IR as a rookie because he was so inconsistent in the 2019 camp to the point where they feared they may have to cut him---

Pauline’s report no doubt created somewhat of a stigma for Butler on a national level to the point where the Cardinals couldn’t even get the WR needy Jets to offer a 7th rounder for him---man, that was rough for both Butler and the Cardinals.

Not sure who Tony Pauline’s Cardinals’ contact is, but Pauline has been right on the money the last two Combines with his Cardinals-related reports---in 2019 he claimed that he heard that Kliff Kingsbury had already indicated that taking Kyler Murraywith the #1 pick was a GO. And then with his report on Butler in 2020 that Butler’s chances of sticking with the Cardinals were very slim.

In either case, the Cardinals would be wise to find out how Pauline was getting these scoops and put an end to it---that is if they want to be able to trade draft picks like Josh Rosen and Hakeem Butler for optimum value.

Pauline is a New York metropolitan pundit and it’s possible that his understanding of the Butler situation had an influence on the Jets’ decision to decline a trade with the Cardinals.

However, Hakeem Butler met with the Jets yesterday and tried out for them, all with Kliff Kingsbury’s blessings. Kingsbury, who once met wit the Jets himself, said:

“For Hakeem, he’s a talented young man. We really like Hakeem. It’s just one of those deals. Sometimes it’s better for both sides to have a fresh start, and we felt like that was one of those instances. He has a tremendous upside and we still think he can be a really good player in this league. It just wasn’t working here and so we allowed him to go somewhere else. I hope it works out for him because we did enjoy him while he was here.”

Did you notice Kingsbury’s continued use of the phrase “tremendous upside”?

While Hakeem Butler was not able to stick with the Cardinals, at least the most hopeful phrase to describe his talent goes with him to New York or wherever he might land on a team’s practice squad with the chance to prove his doubters wrong.

The dude can get over the top of defenses and he can win his fair share of 50/50 balls. And—when he has the ball in his hands---he can rock and roll over safeties.

The key for him now is to find better ways to get off of press coverage (pun intended).
 

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/platform/amp/2020/9/8/21427331/az-arizona-cardinals-hakeem-butler-released-new-york-jets

 

[Jet Nut]

23 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

Well JD did focus on the OL in his 1st year as GM to protect Sam....so that’s promising. But why is he signing every QB west of the Mississippi? Looking for that solid back up QB? 

There’s a little virus running round and they can be carried because of it?

[joewilly12]

44 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

And then cut them both. 

 

[slimjasi]

46 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

It’s not like they’ve given Sam a recipe to succeed to this point.  2020 will be a telling year for Sam’s future with the Jets. He must show improvement, growth and make better choices as to the women he kisses.

The two things I want to see from Darnold this year are:

 

1) Playing all 16 games - this probably involves kissing (or not kissing) the right people

2) Fewer multi-interception games. 

[choon328]

6 hours ago, JetBlue said:

We don't know what happened and right now no one is trading for player in his situation when they can just wait for him to be released.  With the Covid 19 eliminating preseason games, no one has seen this guy on the field and think another team is going to trade for him?   We are in uncharted waters so you have to think out side the box a little.  Butler was hurt last season and they feel very good with their receiver corp.  He was a fourth round pick, very talented but somewhat raw and having a rep for dropping passes.   They felt confident enough to cut him and had he passed waivers, they might have  resigned him to their PS.  What I am interested in is whether our coaches think they can develop him or not.  If so they need to sign him with the quickness. 

He cleared waivers. They had the opportunity to sign him to their PS and chose not to. Teams just don't give up on mid round picks that often after 1 year. Something is up. 

[GreekJet]

11 minutes ago, choon328 said:

He cleared waivers. They had the opportunity to sign him to their PS and chose not to. Teams just don't give up on mid round picks that often after 1 year. Something is up. 

Jalen Saunder? That Shaq guy?

[#27TheDominator]

19 minutes ago, choon328 said:

He cleared waivers. They had the opportunity to sign him to their PS and chose not to. Teams just don't give up on mid round picks that often after 1 year. Something is up. 

Eh.  Maybe, maybe not.  The Jets got Basham, who was a 3rd a few weeks into his 2nd season.  They did switch coaches, and Basham didn't clear waivers.  OTOH, this is a strange year for waiver claims.  The Cards have Fitzgerald and added Hopkins, Kirk and Isabella who all represent more investment than Butler.  They basically kept KeeSean Johnson and a special teamer over Butler.  They do have a ton of WRs on their practice squad, which helps your point.  He might just be a bit of knucklehead and he is apparently pretty inconsistent.  A team stacked at WR like the Cards might not want to put up with waiting for him, while the Jets might.  I guess that being a knucklehead might constitute "something being up."  

[Patriot Killa]

9 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh.  Maybe, maybe not.  The Jets got Basham, who was a 3rd a few weeks into his 2nd season.  They did switch coaches, and Basham didn't clear waivers.  OTOH, this is a strange year for waiver claims.  The Cards have Fitzgerald and added Hopkins, Kirk and Isabella who all represent more investment than Butler.  They basically kept KeeSean Johnson and a special teamer over Butler.  They do have a ton of WRs on their practice squad, which helps your point.  He might just be a bit of knucklehead and he is apparently pretty inconsistent.  A team stacked at WR like the Cards might not want to put up with waiting for him, while the Jets might.  I guess that being a knucklehead might constitute "something being up."  

By all accounts, Kingsbury seems like he genuinely liked the guy & still thought he was talented.
 

From what I’m reading, he didn’t have the route tree down to their liking & didn’t want to wait for him to catch up.

[C Mart]

Aaron Wilson ⁦‪@AaronWilson_NFL‬⁩

Clayton Thorson visiting Jets as they work out Alex McGough

9/8/20, 5:44 PM

 

[#27TheDominator]

48 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

By all accounts, Kingsbury seems like he genuinely liked the guy & still thought he was talented.
 

From what I’m reading, he didn’t have the route tree down to their liking & didn’t want to wait for him to catch up.

Right, but...   the Cards are currently carrying JoJo Ward, Dylan Cantrell, Andre Patton, DJ Foster and AJ Richardson on their practice squad.  Did he refuse to sign there?  Have to assume that if he were next man up he'd be ahead of one of those five.

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, C Mart said:

Aaron Wilson ⁦‪@AaronWilson_NFL‬⁩

Clayton Thorson visiting Jets as they work out Alex McGough

9/8/20, 5:44 PM

 

QB's gone wild here. 

Clayton James Thorson (born December 25, 1995) is an American football quarterback who is a free agent. He was drafted by the Philadelphia Eagles in the fifth round of the 2019 NFL Draft.

Alex McGough (born November 19, 1995) is an American football quarterback who is a free agent. He played college football at Florida International

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Right, but...   the Cards are currently carrying JoJo Ward, Dylan Cantrell, Andre Patton, DJ Foster and AJ Richardson on their practice squad.  Did he refuse to sign there?  Have to assume that if he were next man up he'd be ahead of one of those five.

True also.

[choon328]

8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Eh.  Maybe, maybe not.  The Jets got Basham, who was a 3rd a few weeks into his 2nd season.  They did switch coaches, and Basham didn't clear waivers.  OTOH, this is a strange year for waiver claims.  The Cards have Fitzgerald and added Hopkins, Kirk and Isabella who all represent more investment than Butler.  They basically kept KeeSean Johnson and a special teamer over Butler.  They do have a ton of WRs on their practice squad, which helps your point.  He might just be a bit of knucklehead and he is apparently pretty inconsistent.  A team stacked at WR like the Cards might not want to put up with waiting for him, while the Jets might.  I guess that being a knucklehead might constitute "something being up."  

That is exactly what I'm taking about when I say "something is up". I hope the Jets sign him and he plays great,  I really do.  It's just weird that people think he's going to come in here and start though when he couldn't make it as the 6th WR in AZ.

[Jetsfan80]

14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Right, but...   the Cards are currently carrying JoJo Ward, Dylan Cantrell, Andre Patton, DJ Foster and AJ Richardson on their practice squad.  Did he refuse to sign there?  Have to assume that if he were next man up he'd be ahead of one of those five.

Yeah, I have to assume Butler was only going to sign on to be a member of the 53, at least with the Cardinals.  He may be far more willing to accept a PS squad spot if he can go to a team that's weaker in WR depth, but it seemed clear the Cardinals had too many WRs blocking Butler's path.

[mrcoops]

12 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

QB's gone wild here. 

Clayton James Thorson (born December 25, 1995) is an American football quarterback who is a free agent. He was drafted by the Philadelphia Eagles in the fifth round of the 2019 NFL Draft.

Alex McGough (born November 19, 1995) is an American football quarterback who is a free agent. He played college football at Florida International

JD's fantasy team is obviously playing with a superflex this season.

[#27TheDominator]

8 hours ago, choon328 said:

That is exactly what I'm taking about when I say "something is up". I hope the Jets sign him and he plays great,  I really do.  It's just weird that people think he's going to come in here and start though when he couldn't make it as the 6th WR in AZ.

Agreed.  I will say that Butler is the kind of player that might be more viable as a starter than other guys that teams might actually have higher up their depth chart.  I would not expect him to be a beast, but there would be some hope that he could be a contributor.  Most of what I read about him ranked on his inconsistency.  You could hope that he would be a Stephen Hill/Jonathan Carter type guy that you can throw on the outside that might put some pressure on a defense, without actually expecting anything much out of him.   Also, remember this is the fanbase that is lauding Breshad Perriman and Denzel Mims as both being huge upgrades from Robby Anderson. 

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah, I have to assume Butler was only going to sign on to be a member of the 53, at least with the Cardinals.  He may be far more willing to accept a PS squad spot if he can go to a team that's weaker in WR depth, but it seemed clear the Cardinals had too many WRs blocking Butler's path.

I don't think so.  I read up a bit more.  By every account that I could find, he was having his second bad camp.  They were relieved that he got hurt last season so they could stash him/  I don't think they wanted any part of him on the roster.  He has been out of work for almost a week. He was on a measly 4th round contract.  If he had options and anybody wanted him for their 53 they would have jumped at him off waivers, but he cleared.  I think he'd jump at a chance to make the Cardinals practice squad.  Or the Jets for that matter.  When your path is blocked by Trent Sherfield, you take what you can get.  He was cut prior to cut down day, which suggests that the Cards were not planning to offer him a practice squad slot and there were a few articles that said as much. 

[Wonderboy]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's because of Week 1 QB2 uncertainty, not QB1.  Flacco is hurt and Morgan is a rookie who was already raw, and THEN the COVID uncertainty, no preseason and shortened practice schedule happened.

With 16 PS spots it makes perfect sense to use 2 of them on QB's.  I really don't understand the hand wringing over this.  Everyone whined about our lack of a quality QB2 last year, only to whine all over again when Douglas does everything possible to address the issue for 2020.  Did everyone suddenly forget what happened when Darnold went down last season?

OVERKILL

 

[JetBlue]

So are they going to sign Butler or not?  Or are they undergoing some Covid-19 protocol first?   I can't take this suspense! 

[Mogglez]

On 9/7/2020 at 6:31 PM, Paradis said:

I like Jaleel Scott’s chances better, myself. 

I think you have finally found your spirit GM man.

[Stark]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

I think you have finally found your spirit GM man.

@Paradis going to get Jalen Hurd next offseason. 

[JetBlue]

Looks like they decided to go with Jaleel Scott instead.  He might be the better player and plus their is the Ravens connection. 

 

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I think you have finally found your spirit GM man.

slooow down there friend. I've woken up to an empty bed and note too many times to fall for that one... but it's looking better and better. 

41 minutes ago, Stark said:

@Paradis going to get Jalen Hurd next offseason. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Paradis said:

slooow down there friend. I've woken up to an empty bed and note too many times to fall for that one... but it's looking better and better. 

 

You've quickly jumped into my top 10 favorite posters on JN.  

Methodology to my rankings:  I adjust my list every night while I lay in bed, just prior to falling asleep.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You've quickly jumped into my top 10 favorite posters on JN.  

Methodology to my rankings:  I adjust my list every night while I lay in bed, just prior to falling asleep.

lol i think the key was turning 40... i woke up and suddenly couldn't give AF anymore... best get to enjoyin' what time i have left! 

[Spoot-Face]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

lol i think the key was turning 40... i woke up and suddenly couldn't give AF anymore... best get to enjoyin' what time i have left! 

So, that was the day you went out and bought those pink crocs?

[Paradis]

2 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

So, that was the day you went out and bought those pink crocs?

that was the day i started wearing my wife's clothing, yes. At least in her presence. No comment on prior activity.