Manish: Josh Allen, Sam Darnold going in opposite directions; Bills quarterback is turning into star

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Bugg said:

That was always a pretty weak argument to hire Gase. He had great success with arguably the greatest QB who ever played and was mostly his own OC running his own offense he mostly built with Tom Moore. What exactly did Gase do? "Nice throw, Peyton! Can I get you some water or a towel?" 

Stay away from anyone whose big bragging point on their resume is getting coffee for an elite superstar QB.  Broncos and (almost) Colts made the same mistake with Josh McDaniels

 

i feel sorry for the idiot franchise that gives Brian Schottenheimer a head coach gig in a couple years because of Russell Wilson

[ChuckkieB]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

Let's see, the hype is about victories over the New York Jets and Miami Dolphins.  LOL.

Josh Allen and the Buffalo Bills have yet to beat an NFL team with a winning record with the sole exception of the perennially 9-7 pre-Tannehill Tennessee Titans.

Chiefs
Patriots
49ers
Seahawks
Steelers

Wake me later in the season if the Bills beat one of them.  Until then, they're just another wannabe who can beat the scrubs and can't beat the elites.

SAR I

 

Aren't YOU the one that consistently cites the Jets 6-2 record against bottom feeder teams to close out last season as a point of reference for Gase's prowess as a coach?  Can't have it both ways, bruh.

The troll force is strong with this one.

 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, JetBlue said:

What was uncivilized about my post?? 

Nothing.  It was very civilized.  I was just continuing the thought. 

[slats]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

 

Josh Allen proved he is worth building around, Darnold hasn't.

Nothing influences an organization's decision-making more than their starting QB's play. Good QBs make their own luck.

No it’s the opposite. The Bills built around an inferior prospect in Allen, and that’s resulted in better results. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, slats said:

No it’s the opposite. The Bills built around an inferior prospect in Allen, and that’s resulted in better results. 

Anything to keep the Darnold dream alive!

[slats]

51 minutes ago, jgb said:

Anything to keep the Darnold dream alive!

Darnold will wind up being a better QB than Allen, but probably on another team. And I liked Allen. Would've drafted him ahead of Rosen, that's for sure. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Darnold will wind up being a better QB than Allen, but probably on another team. And I liked Allen. Would've drafted him ahead of Rosen, that's for sure. 

The only thing that can justify this position is hope. But hey I guess sometimes hope pays off despite the odds...

 

[RevisIsland610]

Well of course Allen is the better QB now, duh. He has the better protection, better running game, better WR's, better OC and better HC. It's really not rocket science. 

[slats]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

The only thing that can justify this position is hope. But hey I guess sometimes hope pays off despite the odds...

 

The Jets suck once again, and you're obviously here in all your glory to troll the pitiful team's fans. I'm fully aware. Don't troll me, though, okay? 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, slats said:

The Jets suck once again, and you're obviously here in all your glory to troll the pitiful team's fans. I'm fully aware. Don't troll me, though, okay? 

Truth looks like trolling to those who put feelings over facts.

[slats]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Truth looks like trolling to those who put feelings over facts.

I thought I asked nicely. 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, slats said:

I thought I asked nicely. 

You said stop trolling. Never was. Never would.

If you don't like different opinions, well, you're a mod. Flick the switch. Shrug.

[Jetsbaby93]

6 hours ago, SAR I said:

So did the Jets!

Stop with this "at that time" crap.  At the end of a season, a team is either a winning team or not, and the Buffalo Bills in their illustrious Josh Allen history have never beaten a winning team except for the perennial 9-7 non-Tannehill Titans.  Period.

Go beat the Patriots for the first time ever, go beat the Seahawks, go beat the Chiefs, then you can puff your chest.  Until then, you are what you always have been-  the Jets in blue uniforms.

SAR I

Didn't you puff your chest when darnold went 6-2 last year against those same opponents? Then say he will lead the team to 5-0? 

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, JoshAllenSZN said:

I find your argument completely illogical.

In response to people pointing out that Josh Allen has made huge strides and is trending in the direction of being an electrifying franchise quarterback, you state that the Bills haven't beat good opponents yet? What? What does that have to do with Allen's play? "QB wins" aren't a thing. FOOTBALL TEAMS win and lose games. Besides, if quality of opponent is so important, than your oft-cited 6-2 run to end last season -- the one that made you think the Jets would start this season 5-0 -- meant absolutely nothing.

Josh Allen improved in every single measurable passer statistic from year one to year two, and has done so again from year two to year three, albeit in a limited sample size so far. Completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdowns, interceptions, passer rating...you name it, he's improved at it. Short passing, medium passing, deep passing -- all improved across the board. If you want to talk about quantifiable quarterback improvements, measured by things like the statistics I just mentioned, I'm here for it. If you want to talk about how Josh Allen is solely to blame for the Bills not beating many winning opponents last year, I'm not. It's a stupid argument.

As for your argument that he crumbles under pressure? He was tied last year with Russell Wilson for most 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives in the entire NFL. With 10 minutes left to play against Miami on Sunday, after the Dolphins had taken the lead, he proceeded to throw for 145 yards and two touchdowns and win the game for the Bills. Go take a look at his career 4th quarter performances vs his performance in the other 3 quarters. He also went into Heinz Field against a hot Pittsburgh team on Sunday night -- where the Steelers rarely lose -- and with a playoff spot on the line, threw the game winning touchdown pass. 

Your assessment that he "Crumbles under pressure" couldn't be more off-base. You wanna talk about the playoff game? How about Duke Williams dropping a perfect end zone pass? How about the Bills defense giving up a 3rd-and-18 to a checkdown pass? How about Deshaun Watson shaking off two blitzers on 3rd down in overtime and throwing the pass that sealed the game? How about the Bills defense giving up a 16-point lead in the final 20 minutes of the game? But sure, it was all on Josh Allen. He alone lost that game.

Lastly, if Sam Darnold had led the Jets to the playoffs last year and then started off this season by leading the NFL in passing yards and throwing 6 TDs and no INTs, you'd be ready to build a statue of him. 

The Bills may have been "the Jets in blue" for the past two decades, but thats over now. The Bills are now a competent and well-run organization with a good quarterback. The Jets, until further notice, are still the Jets.

Blah blah blah.

Go beat the Patriots for the first time ever, go beat the Seahawks, go beat the Chiefs, then you can puff your chest.  Until then, you are what you always have been-  the Jets in blue uniforms.

SAR I

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, RocketBills said:

Hey my friend.  Just stopping through and came across this thread.  Gotta call you out on this one a bit.  Putting that playoff loss 100% on Josh's shoulders is a little silly.  If not for a horrible 'illegal block call" that even the announcers said was a terrible call, the Bills would have been in easy FG range in OT and would have probably put the game away.

I like you, RB, but like I said, show me the money.  Show me that Allen is capable of pounding an elite NFL team in a game and then I'll raise an eyebrow and say "nice job, kid".

Beating the Jets and Dolphins in successive weeks is not much of an accomplishment.  Like Darnold, it's a make-or-break year for Allen.  The empty stadiums are probably helping him with his proclivity towards choking against winning teams, so perhaps that makes the difference.

SAR I

[SAR I]

4 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

 

Aren't YOU the one that consistently cites the Jets 6-2 record against bottom feeder teams to close out last season as a point of reference for Gase's prowess as a coach?  Can't have it both ways, bruh.

The troll force is strong with this one.

 

No, I merely say that the 6-2 finish is a reason to keep Gase and see how it goes when his roster is finally healthy.

The Bills have completed Step 1 of the 4 Steps Of Success and for that they are to be congratulated:

Step 1:  Beat the scrubs on your schedule consistently.

Step 2:  Go .500 against the winning teams on your schedule.

Step 3:  Get into the playoffs and win a minimum of 2 playoff games in a season.

Step 4:  Super Bowl run is up and ready, reload with free agents and make a big push.

FYI, the 2009-2010 Jets were a Step 4 team.  The Bills haven't been close to Step 4 since 1995 and nowhere near a Step 2 team in the McDermott/Allen era.

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, slats said:

No it’s the opposite. The Bills built around an inferior prospect in Allen, and that’s resulted in better results. 

The 2020 Buffalo Bills are the 2009 Jets with a worse quarterback.  

SAR I

[SAR I]

51 minutes ago, Jetsbaby93 said:

Didn't you puff your chest when darnold went 6-2 last year against those same opponents? Then say he will lead the team to 5-0? 

Go beat the Patriots, go beat the Chiefs, go beat the Seahawks, go beat the 49ers, shut me up but good.  Go ahead.  Do it.  

Until then?  The Buffalo Bills are the Jets in blue uniforms.  You're healthy, you're a couple years ahead on the rebuild, otherwise, same team, flawed at QB, haven't beaten the Patriots in 5 years, can compete against scrubs, can't beat a winner.

SAR I

[adb280z]

9 hours ago, jgb said:

Manish isn't wrong on this but he's the reason McDermott isn't Jets HC. Although I blame Johnson for listening to him.

Mehta has never had as much power as fans think.  The Jets don't make moves because of Manish Mehta.

[southtown24th]

Manish is right

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, adb280z said:

Mehta has never had as much power as fans think.  The Jets don't make moves because of Manish Mehta.

Too bad, they’d be better off

[jgb]

1 minute ago, southtown24th said:

Manish is right

Being right makes you no friends when the Jets stink 

[TuscanyTile2]

Is Baker Mayfield still "Feeling Dan6erous" btw?

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Is Baker Mayfield still "Feeling Dan6erous" btw?

[jgb]

8 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Is Baker Mayfield still "Feeling Dan6erous" btw?

#1 Baker was off the board before Jets picked. How is he relevant to this thread?

#2 Baker > Darnold.

[jgb]

8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And Chris Herdon nearly committed vehicular manslaughter. What's your point?

[Vudu]

Like most of what you say, this simply isn't true.

Last year the Bills beat the Cowboys -- who had a winning record at that time-- on national TV on Thanksgiving.

They also beat the Pittsburgh Steelers -- who had a winning record at that time -- on Sunday Night Football to clinch a playoff spot.

If your response is "well those teams didn't have a winning record at the end of the season", my response is "what does that have to do with the Bills?". You can only play who the schedule makers put in front of you.

It's funny how the narrative always changes about Josh Allen. Leading up to the Jets game, a lot of folks told me how Gregg Williams and the Jets improved defense were going to give him fits. They didn't, and afterwords suddenly everyone said "oh, it was just the Jets". Then, leading into the Dolphins game, most people said the cornerback trio of Byron Jones, Xavien Howard, and Noah Igbenoghene were going to shut down the Bills receivers. They didn't. Then afterwords everyone said "it was just the Dolphins". Last night, the Dolphins D looked pretty darned good...

Quit moving the goalposts. Quit living in denial. Josh Allen has improved leaps and bounds since he was drafted. He's still imperfect, but the arrow is pointing up. It's clear as day. The Bills front office surrounded him with a good offensive line, great receivers, and a creative play-caller. The Jets did none of those things for Darnold. I'm sorry that your guy hasn't turned out the way you want so far (personally, I blame it on the Jets, because Darnold is talented as hell), but to continue to live in denial that Josh Allen is turning into a good player makes you look silly.

I detect zero lies in this post.

[Philc1]

On 9/25/2020 at 9:00 PM, SAR I said:

The 2020 Buffalo Bills are the 2009 Jets with a worse quarterback.  

SAR I

[Philc1]

14 hours ago, jgb said:

#1 Baker was off the board before Jets picked. How is he relevant to this thread?

#2 Baker > Darnold.

Baker sucks.  All it takes is a win over a bottom feeder bengals team with Hunt and Chubb going nuts running the ball for the Baker Cult to comeback 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Baker sucks.  All it takes is a win over a bottom feeder bengals team with Hunt and Chubb going nuts running the ball for the Baker Cult to comeback 

I didn't say Baker didn't suck. Only that he is better than Darnold.

[RocketBills]

On 9/25/2020 at 6:24 PM, slats said:

No it’s the opposite. The Bills built around an inferior prospect in Allen, and that’s resulted in better results. 

I sure am glad the Bills decided to roll the dice with that 'inferior' prospect.  3-0 this year playing with the 20th ranked Defense in the league.  Allen has carried the team.  ALMOST lost the game yesterday but captained his 10th 4th qtr comeback in 3 years (you can site the 'ticky tac' pass interference call on the game winning drive all you want but that makes up for the horrendous interception in the 3rd qtr. that was clearly a completed pass and ended up changing the entire momentum of the game. 

Season stats through 3 games:  

Passing:  1,038yds (2nd in nfl).  10 passing td's (2nd in nfl).  1 interception (it wasn't really an interception).  QBR 84.9 (4th in NFL).  71.1% completion percentage (tied for 7th)

Rushing:  84 yards.  2 tds (12 total td's first 3 games).  

Finally beat a 'legit' team in the Rams.  A team that was rolling.  Held Dallas (one of the hottest offenses in the NFL right now) to 17pts and held the Eagles (yes they are a train wreck right now) to 19 points.  Best defensive player in the NFL in Donald and a top 3 shutdown CB in the NFL in Ramsey.

Allen has absolutely been surrounded by more talent than Darnold.  That simple can not be denied.  But people  continue to label Allen as inferior and to refuse to see the progress he has made over the past three seasons which only makes them look foolish and ignorant.  Most Bills fans will openly tell you that they like Darnold and think he will be a really good QB one day if he is ever in a better position to succeed.  

In any event, I hope you guys do find some level of success this season and I hope you beat the Patriots and help the Bills finally retake the division!

Good luck!!

 

[NamathToCaster]

He is going to be Jim Kelly 2.0.  He will haunt us in the AFC east for the next 12 years like Jim did.  We drafted the wrong QB.

[jeremy2020]

6 minutes ago, RocketBills said:

I sure am glad the Bills decided to roll the dice with that 'inferior' prospect.  3-0 this year playing with the 20th ranked Defense in the league.  Allen has carried the team.  ALMOST lost the game yesterday but captained his 10th 4th qtr comeback in 3 years (you can site the 'ticky tac' pass interference call on the game winning drive all you want but that makes up for the horrendous interception in the 3rd qtr. that was clearly a completed pass and ended up changing the entire momentum of the game. 

Season stats through 3 games:  

Passing:  1,038yds (2nd in nfl).  10 passing td's (2nd in nfl).  1 interception (it wasn't really an interception).  QBR 84.9 (4th in NFL).  71.1% completion percentage (tied for 7th)

Rushing:  84 yards.  2 tds (12 total td's first 3 games).  

Finally beat a 'legit' team in the Rams.  A team that was rolling.  Held Dallas (one of the hottest offenses in the NFL right now) to 17pts and held the Eagles (yes they are a train wreck right now) to 19 points.  Best defensive player in the NFL in Donald and a top 3 shutdown CB in the NFL in Ramsey.

Allen has absolutely been surrounded by more talent than Darnold.  That simple can not be denied.  But people  continue to label Allen as inferior and to refuse to see the progress he has made over the past three seasons which only makes them look foolish and ignorant.  Most Bills fans will openly tell you that they like Darnold and think he will be a really good QB one day if he is ever in a better position to succeed.  

In any event, I hope you guys do find some level of success this season and I hope you beat the Patriots and help the Bills finally retake the division!

Good luck!!

 

just a good rule of thumb to follow on the internet...anytime you think you're schooling someone or showing them some cool stats...

Don't. You're not telling anyone anything they didn't already know and you just make yourself look like a jerkwad. 

[THE BARON]

the difference is the coaching...

[RocketBills]

36 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

just a good rule of thumb to follow on the internet...anytime you think you're schooling someone or showing them some cool stats...

Don't. You're not telling anyone anything they didn't already know and you just make yourself look like a jerkwad. 

I'm not trying to school anyone.  Just pointing out that Allen is completely changing his narrative, even if a lot of fans and media refuse to say it.  Also, not showing any cool stats either.  Just hard, cold facts.  Allen is playing great right now and as much as it must be painful to say it, the Jets probably drafted the wrong QB.  It's okay.  Fire Gase, start over the rebuilding project, and it WILL get better!  Trust me I know.  The bills just recently overcame the LONGEST playoff drought in the entire NFL.  Hopefully you guys will weather the storm this season and get back on track next year.  

Good luck and enjoy the ride!