Problem is still and always will be the Johnsons

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

As I said he hired JJ and won.  But since the football genius of an owner crowned himself GM? 

Yeah, I wish we had those rings but what was that the 90s?

And most Jets fans' best memory is hearing our fathers or grandpas talk about Joe Namath.

[THE BARON]

We all know it at this point.  All of us.  Even the talking heads in the sports media that usually refuse to blame owners because they don't want their access to the team cut off are all also clearly pointing at Johnson.   Johnson is the clear and present obstacle.  He always has been.  

NOTHING matters until Johnson gets his head out of his ass and lets a professional run the team.  

We can talk about the QB.  We can talk about the drat.  We can talk about the schedule.   All if it is bull sh*t.  

We need Johnson to come out and say he's putting the team in the hands of JD and is going to keep out of things.  And then, he has to actually DO IT.

Until then, the Jets are going to be the rectum of the NFL

And that holds even if they go 0-16 and draft Trevor Lawrence, should he be fool enough to allow himself to be destroyed.

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

The real problem isn't lack of football experience... it's that the Johnsons had no relevant experience whatsoever in building, maintaining, organizing a professional enterprise. The only thing they managed before buying the Jets was maid staff.

I get that point and totally agree.

Just the football experience part is wrong.  Theyre all rich heirs or business men. 

 

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

And most Jets fans' best memory is hearing our fathers or grandpas talk about Joe Namath.

Tell me something I dont know.  

Listen, Ive had season tickets from 1978.  Trust me I know.

[Bugg]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

Mike Brown (bengals) started QB at Dartmouth

Bob Kraft (pats) played RB/S at Columbia (freshman team/JV) 

Jim Irsay (colts) walked on to SMU as a linebacker and broke his ankle 

Clark hunt (chiefs) played Soccer for SMU a different kind of football but div1 still 

Dean Spanos (chargers) lettered in HS, as did Steve Bisciotti (ravens) 

The Green Bay Packers are run by Mark Murphy a former NFL safety (1x All Pro, Washington R-skins) 

Jerry Richardson (Carolina, RIP) was the only league owner to also play in the league. Tepper the replacement hedge fund guy did play football in high school  

 

It should also be noted at least 6 franchises are owned by women. Virginia Halas CHI, Amy Adams Strunk TEN, Gayle Benson NO, Janice McNair HOU, Sheila Ford Hamp DET, Jody Allen SEA 

Know a lot about the Maras. Almost all of their sons played high school or college or both. My son played in a CHSAA playoff game few years back where a Mara kid was the QB for Fordham Prep. One of their son in laws runs Iona's highly-ranked rugby team. The Johnsons have nothing like that. You might not like the Giants, but you cannot deny they have some acumen about the football business. 

[AL047]

IMO, I believe both Bill Parcells and Bill Belicheck had a reason for leaving the Jets!!! Notice they both left dramatically, when this team was on the rise. Parcells was handing the reins to Belicheck who then resigned with a napkin.. Once Johnson took over things started to go south on the Jets, if anyone remembers. Once both Bill's left Al Groh took over for one year and then left to coach in college. In came Herman Edwards went to the playoffs in his first two years, then the next three the team did nothing and left for Kansas City. Then came the likes of Mangini, Ryan, Bowles and Gase to coach the team.

I strongly believe that the Jets coaching problem and decision making began when the Johnson's bought the team. Since then the team hasn't made any impact in the NFL but only as a laughingstock!!!! Teams with new owners have changed the face of their teams an example is the Patriots they had a history of losing new owner and the team wins 6 Super Bowls and made the playoffs practically every year. Owners have also gotten tired of the losing trend year after year and have stepped up. Look at Cleveland for years they have been losing and hiring and firing head coaches and misfiring on the draft until the owner got tired and brought in football people and now the team is starting to look like a playoff team.

Meanwhile the Johnson's have issued a rule of authority that both the GM and head coach will go through them on a weekly basis.  When one or both are fired the Johnson who have no football people running things hire Casserky and Wolf  from the league to help them find the GM and head coach. The Johnson's seem to care only about selling PSL's than putting a team on the field. Until the Johnson's stop meddling and let the head coach report to the GM and let him put a proper team on the field, this team will continue to lose. They need to step aside and let the GM do his work and not to meddle in football business.

[TMAC]

Terrific post.  If the Jets ever get respectable while owned by the Johnsons, it will just be dumb luck.

[Matt39]

Rhule would have taken the job, but the Johnson's weren't willing to give up their power to an actual program builder (they did once with Mangini and couldnt stand him icing them out). Until they're willing to name an actual person in charge we'll get the same over promoted coordinator as HC and lame duck GM running the bare-bones scouting department. Gase/Douglas is the same as Bowles/Maccgnan. The President, who is second in command and a Johnson lifer, seems to have their ear however. Douglas has been a total dud of a hire, but that's expected as the role really carries zero weight other than appearing on TV for the draft.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Tell me something I dont know.  

Listen, Ive had season tickets from 1978.  Trust me I know.

Then you really have no excuse to smack talk Jerry. At least he is all in on trying to win while our owners obsess over the profit margin on the hot dogs they sell at the stadium

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I get that point and totally agree.

Just the football experience part is wrong.  Theyre all rich heirs or business men. 

 

 

The Johnsons had to Google (Although I guess back then it was Yahoo) "what is an org chart" when they bought the Jets.

[Sonny Werblin]

26 minutes ago, SAR I said:

If you don't like the owners find another team.

Players, GM's, and coaches come and go.  Owners don't.  Stop crying and do something.  Find another team.  There are 32 of them you know.

SAR I

The Johsnsons don't have to sell. They need only hire a football guy as Team President and walk away from decision making. 

[THE BARON]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Rhule would have taken the job, but the Johnson's weren't willing to give up their power to an actual program builder (they did once with Mangini and couldnt stand him icing them out). Until they're willing to name an actual person in charge we'll get the same over promoted coordinator as HC and lame duck GM running the bare-bones scouting department. Gase/Douglas is the same as Bowles/Maccgnan. The President, who is second in command and a Johnson lifer, seems to have their ear however. Douglas has been a total dud of a hire, but that's expected as the role really carries zero weight other than appearing on TV for the draft.

Yep.  Rhule fu*ked off as soon as he got a load of the way Johnson wants to do things.  He was smart,   Just like Parcells and Belechick and everyone else that fu*ked off after getting a load of Johnson.

Put yourself in their position.  You know your stuff, and you come in front of a guy with no football experience or any real business experience what so ever.  Just a bank account that was inherited.  Nothing else.  You are in front of a man that is walking on another man's legs.  And... This guy wants to be the boss of everything.  Wants to play the role of a heavy weight.  Wants to be seen and treated like J.P. Morgan.

I don't know about you, but I'd fuc*k off too.  Quickly...

[SAR I]

15 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The Johsnsons don't have to sell. They need only hire a football guy as Team President and walk away from decision making. 

That's what they have.  His name is Adam Gase.  Think about it.

He hand-picked his own GM and he has systematically eliminated bigtime players with bigtime contracts from Florham Park that are not in his mold or do not want to play hard.  The entire front office staff has been flipped, the scouting department, all of it.  Every person in that building is someone Adam Gase wants there.  Hell, even the Jets president was ousted and replaced by someone Gase is comfortable with.

Gase is your "football guy".  He's cooking and shopping for all the groceries.  That's what your eyes should tell you.

SAR I

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Yep.  Rhule fu*ked off as soon as he got a load of the way Johnson wants to do things.  He was smart,   Just like Parcells and Belechick and everyone else that fu*ked off after getting a load of Johnson.

Put yourself in their position.  You know your stuff, and you come in front of a guy with no football experience or any real business experience what so ever.  Just a bank account that was inherited.  Nothing else.  You are in front of a man that is walking on another man's legs.  And... This guy wants to be the boss of everything.  Wants to play the role of a heavy weight.  Wants to be seen and treated like J.P. Morgan.

I don't know about you, but I'd fuc*k off too.  Quickly...

Great summary.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That's what they have.  His name is Adam Gase.  Think about it.

He hand-picked his own GM and he has systematically eliminated players from Florham Park that are not in his mold or do not want to play hard.  The entire front office staff has been flipped, the scouting department, all of it.  Every person in that building is someone Adam Gase wants there.  Hell, even the Jets president was ousted and replaced by someone Gase is comfortable with.

Gase is your "football guy".  He's cooking and shopping for all the groceries.  That's what your eyes should tell you.

SAR I

If I was presented with a magic button that would make a JN rando the new owner of the NYJ, I’d require assurance that it wouldn’t be you before pressing.

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Be honest: this account is run out of a troll farm, isn’t it? No one human has the endurance and total lack of shame to be so colossally wrong about everything for so long. If I had the chance to hit a button and make a JN rando the new GM if the NYJ, I’d require assurance that it wouldn’t be you before pressing.

Adam Gase is the Vito Corleone of Florham Park.  It's obvious.  This "football man" you're begging the Johnson's to hire.  He's already there.

And his instincts are strong.  He whacked his GM and President.  He got himself a wartime consigliere.  The bad players, the lazy players, and the malcontents are lying in holes in the desert.  Florham Park has gone to the mattresses.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

27 minutes ago, jgb said:

Then you really have no excuse to smack talk Jerry. At least he is all in on trying to win while our owners obsess over the profit margin on the hot dogs they sell at the stadium

We can all imagine what we want.  

Have no problem blaming CJ or Woody for mistakes, they've made plenty.  But the idea that obsess over the profit margin on the hot dogs they sell at the stadium and nothing else while others dont is interesting 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

We can all imagine what we want.  

Have no problem blaming CJ or Woody for mistakes, they've made plenty.  But the idea that obsess over the profit margin on the hot dogs they sell at the stadium and nothing else while others dont is interesting 

I think you’re new to the Internet 

[Jet Nut]

31 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

The Johnsons had to Google (Although I guess back then it was Yahoo) "what is an org chart" when they bought the Jets.

I get it.  Not getting the point of repeating it over and over again.  Their requirement to buy the team was be rich.  

Just dont get how hard it is to figure out the organizational chart for a football team, we all could do it.  Its not that hard and doesnt make for a successful owner.  Hiring the right people is the key and we haven't done it a vast majority of the time.  Its not complicated

[Jet Nut]

.

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

I get it.  Not getting the point of repeating it over and over again.  Theyre requirement to buy the team was be rich.  

Just dont get how hard it is to figure out the organizational chart for a football team, we all could do it.  Its not that hard and doesnt make for a successful owner.  Hiring the right people is the key and we haven't done it a vast majority of the time.  Its not complicated

Cause I wanna.

I’ll say it again: Johnsons never managed so much as wiping their own ass before buying the NYJ.

[UntouchableCrew]

The Johnsons are bad owners but the idea that we can't win with them isn't really backed up by evidence.

From 2000-2010 the Johnsons owned the team and we had what, 8 winning seasons and 3 losing seasons? 6 playoff seasons?

We need a little luck that they'll make a good hire (I'm still hopeful for Douglas and hope he'll lead the HC hire) but they aren't Dolan or the Wilpons.

[ChuckkieB]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The Johnsons are bad owners but the idea that we can't win with them isn't really backed up by evidence.

From 2000-2010 the Johnsons owned the team and we had what, 8 winning seasons and 3 losing seasons? 6 playoff seasons?

We need a little luck that they'll make a good hire (I'm still hopeful for Douglas and hope he'll lead the HC hire) but they aren't Dolan or the Wilpons.

When you are forced to rely on good luck to win DESPITE your incompetent owner, then you've already lost.

[bitonti]

57 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Know a lot about the Maras. Almost all of their sons played high school or college or both. My son played in a CHSAA playoff game few years back where a Mara kid was the QB for Fordham Prep. One of their son in laws runs Iona's highly-ranked rugby team. The Johnsons have nothing like that. You might not like the Giants, but you cannot deny they have some acumen about the football business. 

left out the Maras and the Rooneys as well as Jerruh as obvious football people 

not that being a football person makes you a genius but at least get in the neighborhood 

the league should educate the owners

lock them in a room with John Madden 21 and make them beat it on "rookie" before they can come out and own again 

[THE BARON]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

That's what they have.  His name is Adam Gase.  Think about it.

He hand-picked his own GM and he has systematically eliminated bigtime players with bigtime contracts from Florham Park that are not in his mold or do not want to play hard.  The entire front office staff has been flipped, the scouting department, all of it.  Every person in that building is someone Adam Gase wants there.  Hell, even the Jets president was ousted and replaced by someone Gase is comfortable with.

Gase is your "football guy".  He's cooking and shopping for all the groceries.  That's what your eyes should tell you.

SAR I

You make an important point here. 

"eliminated bigtime players with bigtime contracts from Florham Park that are not in his mold"

How many big time players, or average players do you think fit into the Adam Gase mold ??? Berrios ??? 

Gase is a walking personality disorder and that is the least of it.

EVERYONE here knows it.  A good HC, OC or DC does not jam square pegs into round holes.  All the best coaches understand that form follows function.  They design their system around the strengths of their players.  

Gase has demonstrated *CLEARLY* that he can not do that.

When those big time players get away from him and work under a crafty coach, they perform like world beaters.

Gase is an absolute disaster of a HC from an interpersonal relationship standpoint and even worse from the X's and O's standpoint.

You have been taking the side of an argument that is simply not defensible by the facts. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, bitonti said:

left out the Maras and the Rooneys as well as Jerruh as obvious football people 

not that being a football person makes you a genius but at least get in the neighborhood 

the league should educate the owners

lock them in a room with John Madden 21 and make them beat it on "rookie" before they can come out and own again 

I'd at least ask for "pro" (and possibly "all-pro"). 

"rookie" is minor league stuff. 

[bitonti]

13 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The Johnsons are bad owners but the idea that we can't win with them isn't really backed up by evidence.

From 2000-2010 the Johnsons owned the team and we had what, 8 winning seasons and 3 losing seasons? 6 playoff seasons?

We need a little luck that they'll make a good hire (I'm still hopeful for Douglas and hope he'll lead the HC hire) but they aren't Dolan or the Wilpons.

ok so the story there is those years is when they were trying 

they aren't really trying that hard and the evidence is cap spend

many teams spend to 100% or close to it, some hang around 95% the Jets are constantly dipping in the high 80's low 90s just by the floor 

there's a stat the Jets have like 15% of their cap as dead money post Bell most teams have like 3%. 6% is considered alot. 

this team has, by design, chosen to not resign any draft picks or homegrown players like robby, use the open cap space to trade people and cut them and the few times they do spend it's just to balance the books and ends up going to mercenaries like CJ mosley 

[THE BARON]

27 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Adam Gase is the Vito Corleone of Florham Park.

He is not Vito Corleone.  He's fuc*ing Fredo... 

[UntouchableCrew]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

ok so the story there is those years is when they were trying 

they aren't really trying that hard and the evidence is cap spend

many teams spend to 100% or close to it, some hang around 95% the Jets are constantly dipping in the high 80's low 90s just by the floor 

there's a stat the Jets have like 15% of their cap as dead money post Bell most teams have like 3%. 6% is considered alot. 

this team has, by design, chosen to not resign any draft picks or homegrown players like robby, use the open cap space to trade people and cut them and the few times they do spend it's just to balance the books and ends up going to mercenaries like CJ mosley 

I just don't buy that at all. 

The issue has been incompetence by the head coaches and front office, not an unwillingness to spend money.

CJ Mosley and Leveon Bell just stole $60 million from the organization. The Jets weren't "cheap" in not wanting to pay for stars, they just paid bums because they had no homegrown players of their own to pay.

[Lurker89]

2 hours ago, HessStation said:

Instead of the Michigan Governor the Johnsons should be the next target. Who wants to form a militia with me and take care of it ourselves? Nobody will ever know unless one of you guys is an informant. 

I expected a PM if we were forming a kidnap militia.

[SAR I]

48 minutes ago, jgb said:

Cause I wanna.

I’ll say it again: Johnsons never managed so much as wiping their own ass before buying the NYJ.

So what?  They own the team and will for the rest of your life.  Buy in to what they're trying to do or get out.

This is a form of entertainment, peeps.  This isn't real life.  This isn't actually important.

SAR I

[southparkcpa]

[southparkcpa]

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

So what?  They own the team and will for the rest of your life.  Buy in to what they're trying to do or get out.

This is a form of entertainment, peeps.  This isn't real life.  This isn't actually important.

SAR I

Except no one calls you disloyal if you walk out of Sharknado halfway through 

[SAR I]

29 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

You make an important point here. 

"eliminated bigtime players with bigtime contracts from Florham Park that are not in his mold"

How many big time players, or average players do you think fit into the Adam Gase mold ??? Berrios ??? 

Gase is a walking personality disorder and that is the least of it.

EVERYONE here knows it.  A good HC, OC or DC does not jam square pegs into round holes.  All the best coaches understand that form follows function.  They design their system around the strengths of their players.  

Gase has demonstrated *CLEARLY* that he can not do that.

When those big time players get away from him and work under a crafty coach, they perform like world beaters.

Gase is an absolute disaster of a HC from an interpersonal relationship standpoint and even worse from the X's and O's standpoint.

You have been taking the side of an argument that is simply not defensible by the facts. 

None of this matters.  What matters is that the Johnson's believe in Adam Gase and its his team.  He's your "football man".  He's the guy that keeps the Johnson's out of the football side of things.

So if there are old players, lazy players, or mediocre players that he doesn't see as having a place here when we start winning in 2022 he's going to get rid of them as soon as possible.  He has to clean up the culture and get players that fit his vision.  That's why he hired Joe Douglas.

You have to answer for 10 years of Idzik and Maccagnan neglect, Carlo.   Sucks, I wish it weren't the case, but it is.

SAR I