Sam not practicing

[JoJoTownsell1]

19 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Looks like everyone except Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson from that “generational” draft in 2018 sucks

 

Sam will be a lot better after he leaves the jets and Gase tho

Lamar Jackson this year ranks:

19th in QBR

27th in passing yards

21st in passer rating

30th in Comp Pct

Those wheels of his will carry him only so far and for only so long. 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, jgb said:

We ain't getting a first or even a second for Darnold. 4th is my bet (with us giving back a 6th). Dear all, feel free to bump and mock if I'm wrong.

i think we’ll get more than a 4th just because the Jets’ situation and reputation, plus the ultra-hype about Darnold for so long in college, that there’s at least 1 team convinced it’s not his fault & anyone would fail here (ffs you have no shortage of Jets fans who think so).

Ironically he’s helped a lot not by his own doing, but by Tannehill being left for dead after his years under Gase, and not 2 seasons later when people expected to him being one step further from being out of the league - ffs he was backing up Mariota in their own “no QB could be successful here” situation - he’s a top 5 QB perorming better than the Dolphins could have hoped for on draft day.

The problem is with each additional week Darnold is continually lowering his trade value further. When people were saying 2-3 weeks ago we could still get a late 1st, that might have been true then. 2-3 games later I don’tt think so, and his being <100% physically (yet again) isn’t helping matters. Seriously, he’s gone 15 consecutive quarters (and counting) without a TD pass and it’s not because the Jets are scoring 3-4 rushing TDs every week. What do you even do with that?

It was a tough challenge for him entering the league, no doubt. But the point of this 3-year tryout is to see if you drafted someone capable of rising to that challenge and perform; not succumb to it in failure and hope enough people suggest you need to be graded on a super-curve. That stipulation might hold water if Darnolds was ok but just not particularly good or great; not so when he looks like the worst QB in the league.

I don’t see how he turns it around enough for someone to believe in him (let alone while the team maintains its hold on the #1 overall pick). Only way I could see the team rationalize hanging onto him is if there’s enough of a turnaround from Darnold that the Jets somehow win 5-6 of the last 8 and are then out of contention for the top 2-3 QBs in the draft. I’d still draft another QB no later than day 2, but that’d at least be a rationalize-able situation to hanging onto him for Darnold Part IV.

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

i think we’ll get more than a 4th just because the Jets’ situation and reputation, plus the ultra-hype about Darnold for so long in college, that there’s at least 1 team convinced it’s not his fault & anyone would fail here (ffs you have no shortage of Jets fans who think so).

Ironically he’s helped a lot not by his own doing, but by Tannehill being left for dead after his years under Gase, and not 2 seasons later when people expected to him being one step further from being out of the league - ffs he was backing up Mariota in their own “no QB could be successful here” situation - he’s a top 5 QB perorming better than the Dolphins could have hoped for on draft day.

The problem is with each additional week Darnold is continually lowering his trade value further. When people were saying 2-3 weeks ago we could still get a late 1st, that might have been true then. 2-3 games later I don’tt think so, and his being <100% physically (yet again) isn’t helping matters. Seriously, he’s gone 15 consecutive quarters (and counting) without a TD pass and it’s not because the Jets are scoring 3-4 rushing TDs every week. What do you even do with that?

It was a tough challenge for him entering the league, no doubt. But the point of this 3-year tryout is to see if you drafted someone capable of rising to that challenge and perform; not succumb to it in failure and hope enough people suggest you need to be graded on a super-curve. That stipulation might hold water if Darnolds was ok but just not particularly good or great; not so when he looks like the worst QB in the league.

I don’t see how he turns it around enough for someone to believe in him (let alone while the team maintains its hold on the #1 overall pick). Only way I could see the team rationalize hanging onto him is if there’s enough of a turnaround from Darnold that the Jets somehow win 5-6 of the last 8 and are then out of contention for the top 2-3 QBs in the draft. I’d still draft another QB no later than day 2, but that’d at least be a rationalize-able situation to hanging onto him for Darnold Part IV.

Thorough as always but keep in mind what a team would be trading for is one year only left on his rookie deal. That depresses his trade value, as well.

[Losmeister]

13 hours ago, jgb said:

Literally every team in the league looks like they are playing football. Darnold-led Jets do not. As I said when we were all guffawing the Fins at beginning of the year—they are a lot closer to the Chiefs than we are to the Fins. Unsurprisingly that’s been proven convincingly.

i think its gonna be funny when tua isobviously worse than fitz....

[jgb]

33 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

i think its gonna be funny when tua isobviously worse than fitz....

Very surprised Fins made this switch now

[Losmeister]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Very surprised Fins made this switch now

yes. the timing and fitz playing well... weird move. not a good one for Tua, imho.

[BroadwayRay]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Lamar Jackson this year ranks:

19th in QBR

27th in passing yards

21st in passer rating

30th in Comp Pct

Those wheels of his will carry him only so far and for only so long. 

I haven't looked at the stats, but Josh Allen has also fallen back to earth since his first four games of the season.

[Dunnie]

Lamar Jackson this year ranks:
19th in QBR
27th in passing yards
21st in passer rating
30th in Comp Pct
Those wheels of his will carry him only so far and for only so long. 

Really the only reason I prefer pocket passer to the run option quarterback... Give me a Breeze, Brady or Stafford type please...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Lamar Jackson this year ranks:

19th in QBR

27th in passing yards

21st in passer rating

30th in Comp Pct

Those wheels of his will carry him only so far and for only so long. 

I think anyone really paying attention saw that last year was going to be an anomaly for Jackson.  You're not running for 1200 yards often as a QB.  And it was obvious once he got to the playoffs his passing was going to hinder their championship chances. 

Crazy enough, that's why many of us (myself included) said they would rather have Sam long term.  My how much has that opinion changed...

[bitonti]

start james morgan

 

[Skeet Ulrich]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Lamar Jackson this year ranks:

19th in QBR

27th in passing yards

21st in passer rating

30th in Comp Pct

Those wheels of his will carry him only so far and for only so long. 

Still better than Darnold and Mayfield.

 

[Jet Nut]

21 minutes ago, jgb said:

Very surprised Fins made this switch now

That’s what I thought too. They have the Houston 1st round pick.  Could get them a QB if Tua isn’t it.  Need to give him a fair chance to show they don’t need to draft one

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Lamar Jackson this year ranks:

19th in QBR

27th in passing yards

21st in passer rating

30th in Comp Pct

Those wheels of his will carry him only so far and for only so long. 

And a bunch of people want his current oc to be our head coach.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That’s what I thought too. They have the Houston 1st round pick.  Could get them a QB if Tua isn’t it.  Need to give him a fair chance to show they don’t need to draft one

Good point but to risk a playoff berth... bold move

[Losmeister]

28 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Really the only reason I prefer pocket passer to the run option quarterback... Give me a Breeze, Brady or Stafford type please...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Having a rough time this year., Also, for the last 2 years, in case you havent noticed, their WR group is pretty gash.

[Losmeister]

28 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think anyone really paying attention saw that last year was going to be an anomaly for Jackson.  You're not running for 1200 yards often as a QB.  And it was obvious once he got to the playoffs his passing was going to hinder their championship chances. 

Crazy enough, that's why many of us (myself included) said they would rather have Sam long term.  My how much has that opinion changed...

andyet he was onepass from beating Steelers at the end ofthe game...   

and on another note, i thought that it was Greg ROman who was responsible for LJ's performance and his surrounding cast...no?

ahh, whenhe plays well, its not him, when he plays MEH, its him... i got it now...

[JoJoTownsell1]

25 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

And a bunch of people want his current oc to be our head coach.

To be fair, Roman did make a RB look amazing at QB  for 1 season. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

31 minutes ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Still better than Darnold and Mayfield.

 

That sounds like the "well Mccarthy is better than Gase crowd." How about we shoot a little higher than "guys that are better than the crap we have."

[JoJoTownsell1]

38 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

Really the only reason I prefer pocket passer to the run option quarterback... Give me a Breeze, Brady or Stafford type please...

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Guys like Jackson and Allen give you a legit chance to win a super bowl early on in their careers (like Cam in Carolina) if they can make just enough plays with their legs. However, that is just not sustainable long term. 

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I mean, is it really “people here?”  Because in this thread it’s really just the guy who still thinks Macc did a good job.

I wasn't aware Pac had arrived in this thread.

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

That’s what I thought too. They have the Houston 1st round pick.  Could get them a QB if Tua isn’t it.  Need to give him a fair chance to show they don’t need to draft one

Smart move by the Dolphins.

[genot]

7 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I mean, is it really “people here?”  Because in this thread it’s really just the guy who still thinks Macc did a good job.

Stop it. I defended Mac,because i was furious about how his firing went down. It was orchestrated by a coach,who now everybody here believes sucks,who never did anything in the NFL to earn that power. And i still stand by it.

[ZachEY]

10 minutes ago, genot said:

Stop it. I defended Mac,because i was furious about how his firing went down. It was orchestrated by a coach,who now everybody here believes sucks,who never did anything in the NFL to earn that power. And i still stand by it.

Your defense of Mac started upon his firing?  That's what you're going with?  Really?

[ZachEY]

23 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I wasn't aware Pac had arrived in this thread.

 

Reality

 

 

 

 

Optimism

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pac

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

genot

[genot]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Your defense of Mac started upon his firing?  That's what you're going with?  Really?

Lol. Mac wasn't a good GM. Some of the criticisms of him we're over the top,in my view. Which is not unusual here. Is it?  QW,a bust. Adams a bust, Anderson the one trick pony,etc,etc 

[Jetsfan80]

21 minutes ago, genot said:

Lol. Mac wasn't a good GM. Some of the criticisms of him we're over the top,in my view. Which is not unusual here. Is it?  QW,a bust. Adams a bust, Anderson the one trick pony,etc,etc 

He's objectively and empirically verified to be the worst drafting GM of all-time, and its not close.  I say "objectively and empirically", because this is based on the % of players he drafted who were out of the league within 2-3 seasons, a % that far outpaced his peers and historical GM performances in the modern draft era.  It also demonstrated those misses could NOT be blamed on coaching, since those players were no good for the 31 other NFL franchises/coaches in the league.  

Matt Millen drafted several Pro Bowlers and one of the top 5 or 10 WR's of all-time in Calvin Johnson, yet was considered the worst GM ever by any.  Macc far exceeded that level of suckitude.  

And as bad as he was at drafting, he was even worse when it came to the contracts he handed to free agents and when re-signing his own.  

I posted this in another thread previously.  This about sums it up:

 

The Macc team of failure, made up entirely of Macc acquisitions:

• QB:  Sam Darnold
• QB:  Christian Hackenberg
• QB:  Bryce Petty
• RB:  Le'Veon Bell
• RB:  Matt Forte
• RB:  Stevan Ridley
• RB:  Zac Stacy
• RB:  Ty Montgomery
• WR:  ArDarius Stewart
• WR:  Chad Hansen
• WR:  Devin Smith
• WR:  Terrelle Pryor
• WR:  Rishard Matthews
• TE/FB:  Trevon Wesco
• TE:  Chris Herndon
• TE:  Jordan Leggett
• TE:  Kellen Davis
• OT:  Ryan Clady
• OT:  Brandon Shell
• G:  Kelechi Osemele
• G:  Jarvis Harrison
• C :  Spencer Long
• DE:  Dylan Donahue
• DE:  Henry Anderson
• DE:  Mike Pennel
• DT:  Nathan Shepherd
• NT:  Deon Simon
• OLB:  Jachai Polite
• OLB:  Lorenzo Mauldin
• ILB:  C.J. Mosley
• ILB:  Darron Lee
• ILB:  Erin Henderson
• ILB:  Blake Cashman
• CB:  Trumaine Johnson
• CB:  Antonio Cromartie
• CB:  Buster Skrine
• CB:  Parry Nickerson
• DB/S:  Jeremy Clark
• DB/S:  Juston Burris
• S:  Marcus Gilchrist
• K:  Randy Bullock
• P:  Steve Weatherford (signed back to Jets in 2015)
• RB/KR:  Trenton Cannon

 

Not included above were guys he didn't acquire but handed bad contracts to, most notably Quincy Enunwa.

And no, lists like the one above cannot be made for "all other GM's".  I already stated above he was objectively bad at drafting, and it's even clearer how bad he was at signing FA's compared to other GM's. 

You absolutely CANNOT create a list of suck like the one above for any other GM in NFL history,  You simply can't.  He was so bad, it was as if he was intentionally trying to sabotage the franchise.  

Need an additional reason?  The current Jets.  Yes, Adam Gase sucks.  Yes, Joe Douglas has made a few mistakes.  But the overwhelming majority of the blame for the level of suck that has led to the 2020 Jets being on pace to be one of the 2 worst NFL teams of all-time falls at the feet of Mike Maccagnan and the owners who hired him.  

[ZachEY]

22 minutes ago, genot said:

Lol. Mac wasn't a good GM. Some of the criticisms of him we're over the top,in my view. Which is not unusual here. Is it?  QW,a bust. Adams a bust, Anderson the one trick pony,etc,etc 

This was your comment when Douglas took over:

On 9/10/2019 at 1:07 PM, genot said:

There's not much to fix. You think so. Fine. i don't.

And yet, an article just came out this week, illustrating what I, and others have been saying all along.  Macc was the worst GM in the league, by far, during his tenure:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/nfl-drafting-efficiency-2010-2019

[genot]

8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This was your comment when Douglas took over:

And yet, an article just came out this week, illustrating what I, and others have been saying all along.  Macc was the worst GM in the league, by far, during his tenure:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/nfl-drafting-efficiency-2010-2019

It was a different team then. Players who we're with the team then,aren't now. For better, or worse. Now worse. Later,hopefully not.

[genot]

14 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This was your comment when Douglas took over:

And yet, an article just came out this week, illustrating what I, and others have been saying all along.  Macc was the worst GM in the league, by far, during his tenure:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2020/nfl-drafting-efficiency-2010-2019

You guy's at least need to throw me some props. I said from the get-go,Gase was going to be a disaster. The reason why i disappeared from this awesome forum for months.

[Skeet Ulrich]

2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That sounds like the "well Mccarthy is better than Gase crowd." How about we shoot a little higher than "guys that are better than the crap we have."

Lamar Jackson is 24 and a MVP. Good luck drafting a QB better than that.

[JetBlue]

21 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Because if we lose 16 it should be apparent to all that Sam isnt our guy.  

Being this close to have the chance of drafting someone as highly ranked as TL with Fields as the consolation prize it makes no sense to not hold out for either of them.  QB is that important.  We have a lot of draft capital to use or maneuver around with.  We have tons of cap space.  We can get players

Get the QB when you can.

Who on this board is still not getting this??  I was there at least 3 for 4 games ago.  Sam at is best, was not the prospect either TL or Fields is.   If for no other reason than he MAKES TOO MANY BONE HEADED MISTAKES.  He was turnover prone in college and that pattern has continued into the NFL.  Look at the TD turnover Ratio of TL and Fields and that stat alone makes me want to move on from Sam.  Of course we know there is more to the position than than that but it shows an awareness and understanding of the importance of protecting the ball that Sam just doesn't seem to have, even now.   Grab one of the top two quarterback prospects in this draft and build around them the right way. 

[JustInFudge]

On 11/5/2020 at 1:59 PM, genot said:

If we trade down we could draft a top center and guard. Depending on who we trade down with we can have a proven quality WR,and stll have a bunch of picks to play with. Even if Sam isn't the answer,we would have a quality defense and offense in place for a QB to be drafted in 22.

If Lawrence is truly a generational talent (or if Fields is your preference) and are potential top 5 QB's in this league, the value they provide over 2 solid OL dudes, is truly insurmountable.  You already have what looks like an all-pro LT.   If JD is truly this OL guru he shouldnt need multiple first round picks to build out the rest.

For example; Lloyd Cushenberry, C, LSU - has started every single snap for the Broncos and the Jets passed on him for Davis and Zuniga.  Samsies Solomon Kindley, G, Georgia. except he went in the 4th.  Both players guys on this board loved (some had Cush in the 1st, Kind in the 2nd) so it can easily be done. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, genot said:

It was a different team then. Players who we're with the team then,aren't now. For better, or worse. Now worse. Later,hopefully not.

All the way back in 2019?  lol.  Totes, Macc has nothing to do with this mess a whole year later!  

Yikes dude.  Did you even read my previous post?

 

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He's objectively and empirically verified to be the worst drafting GM of all-time, and its not close.  I say "objectively and empirically", because this is based on the % of players he drafted who were out of the league within 2-3 seasons, a % that far outpaced his peers and historical GM performances in the modern draft era.  It also demonstrated those misses could NOT be blamed on coaching, since those players were no good for the 31 other NFL franchises/coaches in the league.  

Matt Millen drafted several Pro Bowlers and one of the top 5 or 10 WR's of all-time in Calvin Johnson, yet was considered the worst GM ever by any.  Macc far exceeded that level of suckitude.  

And as bad as he was at drafting, he was even worse when it came to the contracts he handed to free agents and when re-signing his own.  

I posted this in another thread previously.  This about sums it up:

 

The Macc team of failure, made up entirely of Macc acquisitions:

• QB:  Sam Darnold
• QB:  Christian Hackenberg
• QB:  Bryce Petty
• RB:  Le'Veon Bell
• RB:  Matt Forte
• RB:  Stevan Ridley
• RB:  Zac Stacy
• RB:  Ty Montgomery
• WR:  ArDarius Stewart
• WR:  Chad Hansen
• WR:  Devin Smith
• WR:  Terrelle Pryor
• WR:  Rishard Matthews
• TE/FB:  Trevon Wesco
• TE:  Chris Herndon
• TE:  Jordan Leggett
• TE:  Kellen Davis
• OT:  Ryan Clady
• OT:  Brandon Shell
• G:  Kelechi Osemele
• G:  Jarvis Harrison
• C :  Spencer Long
• DE:  Dylan Donahue
• DE:  Henry Anderson
• DE:  Mike Pennel
• DT:  Nathan Shepherd
• NT:  Deon Simon
• OLB:  Jachai Polite
• OLB:  Lorenzo Mauldin
• ILB:  C.J. Mosley
• ILB:  Darron Lee
• ILB:  Erin Henderson
• ILB:  Blake Cashman
• CB:  Trumaine Johnson
• CB:  Antonio Cromartie
• CB:  Buster Skrine
• CB:  Parry Nickerson
• DB/S:  Jeremy Clark
• DB/S:  Juston Burris
• S:  Marcus Gilchrist
• K:  Randy Bullock
• P:  Steve Weatherford (signed back to Jets in 2015)
• RB/KR:  Trenton Cannon

 

Not included above were guys he didn't acquire but handed bad contracts to, most notably Quincy Enunwa.

And no, lists like the one above cannot be made for "all other GM's".  I already stated above he was objectively bad at drafting, and it's even clearer how bad he was at signing FA's compared to other GM's. 

You absolutely CANNOT create a list of suck like the one above for any other GM in NFL history,  You simply can't.  He was so bad, it was as if he was intentionally trying to sabotage the franchise.  

Need an additional reason?  The current Jets.  Yes, Adam Gase sucks.  Yes, Joe Douglas has made a few mistakes.  But the overwhelming majority of the blame for the level of suck that has led to the 2020 Jets being on pace to be one of the 2 worst NFL teams of all-time falls at the feet of Mike Maccagnan and the owners who hired him.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, genot said:

You guy's at least need to throw me some props.

No

[Greensleeves]

3 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Still better than Darnold and Mayfield.

 

If Darnold was on the Ravens he would have better passing stats this year than Jackson because they would have tailored their offense to him and protected him much better. He would also have a better D and probably a lot more possessions that start in solid field position. I'm really surprised so many people can't separate a good team/coach for a QB compared to a bad team/coach and how much more difficult it is to succeed on the bad team. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson don't have Sam's passing talent, but run more and have playoff teams.