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4 hours ago, JiF said:

Likewise, my whole love for Fields is just really in response to the ridiculousness of Lawrence being generational.  He's never been the clear cut best QB in the NCAA but he's generational?  He wont even win a Heisman.  That's just now how it works if you're generational. 

 

Just wanted to post though that if Lawrence doesn't want to come to NY Jets then if the Jets like Fields they should just say that Lawrence you won't be the number 1 picks and Fields will be. Then we'll see if Lawrence changes his tune knowing he won't go number 1 overall in the 2020 draft. 

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Lawrence long ball stats     Lawrence is 35% on passes that travel over 20 yards. Fields is 73%. Sam Darnold (in the NFL 2019) is 42%. NFL avg is around 50%.

I’m not asking this to antagonize you, but do you have any pics of Trevor Lawrence wearing a slim-fit waffle-knit three-button henley where he has all three buttons coquettishly undone, and with maybe

A great college QB becomes great when he does it in the NFL not before.. Brady and Montana were not great college QB's..

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2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

BB is not going to lose to the winless NY Jets.

No way in hell. 

Your post said 6 more games against teams with winning records ... Patsies don't have a winning record, nor will they when we play them again.

I know he won't lose to us. ;-)

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2 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Your post said 6 more games against teams with winning records ... Patsies don't have a winning record, nor will they when we play them again.

I know he won't lose to us. ;-)

Sorry i'm used to NE having a winning record all the time from years of it. 

I stand corrected. 

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54 minutes ago, JiF said:

Since TL has been in the league, Murray and Burrow won the trophy and they were clearly, the better QB's. When Murray won, he competed with Tua and Haskins.  Last year the Heisman candidates were Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts and Justin Fields...and Chase Young.   Meaning, TL has never even been in the top 3 conversation and more than likely, he wont be again.  Trask, Wilson and Fields are all above him.  Paul Finnebaum just came out and said, "Fields is the most talented player in college Football"....so I provide this all to prove my overall point - Trevor Lawrence is not generational.  Great prospect, going #1 overall.  Generational?  No.

I mean Lawrence was the odds on betting favorite until he got Covid. The idea that he wasn't in the Heisman convo is just incorrect.

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11 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean Lawrence was the odds on betting favorite until he got Covid. The idea that he wasn't in the Heisman convo is just incorrect.

Was he?  Arguable.   I'd give it to Entienne before him.

 

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5 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

I agree I wouldn't be sad at all if the Jets take Lawrence over Fields . I just hate all these "experts" that buy into the media hype over Lawrence and the generational talent nonsense. 

Not hype... It is the eye test. 

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6 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

You could say that about Jamarcus Russell , Jeff George, David Klingler, Andre Ware etc..............

Lawrence has superior passing skills, yes...  Just as important is what goes on in the space between his ears.  He is very well grounded to the extent that no moment is overwhelming for him.  He is mature beyond his years, intelligent and has an ordered personality.  He is not the million dollar arm with the ten cent brain.  

You have to study the entire player.  Not just the arms and legs.  

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11 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean Lawrence was the odds on betting favorite until he got Covid. The idea that he wasn't in the Heisman convo is just incorrect.

I couldn't care less about a Heisman when judging my favorite future NFL QB prospects but fans seem to have already forgotten that Trevor Lawrence has been forced to miss 3 games here in 2020 due to a Covid pandemic season (two games because he had Covid + 1 game because he couldn't play against FSU + bye week; means 4 weeks of no TL performance). 

Trevor Lawrence: 2020

6-0 (.100%). 

135/191 (70.7%). 

1,833 Passing Yards (9.6 yards per pass attempt). 

17 TD's/2 INT's (8.5 TD-to-INT Ratio). 

4 Rushing TD's. 

QB Rating 178.6. 

The most impressive feature about Trevor Lawrence is his ability to improve as he's improved each and every year within each and every statistical category known to Quarterbacking mankind. 

I couldn't care less about a "Heisman" when he'll end up playing within 3 NCAA National Championship Games throughout his only 3 seasons of play;

After already becoming the only True Freshman QB of All-Time to ever win a National Championship dating back to 35 years ago of 1985 (the year I was born) STRAIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL!

He is a generational prospect and he's the highest rated QB prospect of All-Time dating back to only John Elway/Peyton Manning. 

Screenshot_20201123-143230.thumb.png.6d35134fe44b5a13ec2ac3e6aefdfff8.png

 

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14 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

He is very well grounded to the extent that no moment is overwhelming for him.

Looked beyond overwhelmed vs. LSU, not hard looking composed vs. the sh*tty ACC.

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I'm going to preface this by saying I love Fields.

I'm not sure I buy this statistic fully because that Clemson coaching seem to cater towards high point guys over route and speed guys. From Hopkins, Watkins (albeit he was a speed guy too), Williams, Higgins as the No. 1 guys. I'm wondering if the accuracy is off because it's more about giving your WR a chance than the perfect pass.

For example, a back shoulder pass is inaccurate if the WR doesn't adjust in time. Is that graded as accurate or inaccurate?

I like OSU's offensive system better, I think they push the ball down the field better than Clemson, but that's a systemic thing. They did the same with Haskins as well.

From what I watched this year, he seemed improved with his accuracy, but he's not a stud in this area.

With Fields, his deep passing game is better, but I worry about his reads on a play. He seems to have an easier system, which I'd love to import.


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20 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Lawrence has superior passing skills, yes...  Just as important is what goes on in the space between his ears.  He is very well grounded to the extent that no moment is overwhelming for him.  He is mature beyond his years, intelligent and has an ordered personality.  He is not the million dollar arm with the ten cent brain.  

You have to study the entire player.  Not just the arms and legs.  

Easy to say when he hasn't faced adversity in his college career . The one game where his team didn't have more talent they got beat pretty handily. How will he handle playing for the Jets where at least 2/3rds if not all other teams he plays against will have better talent. How will he handle the New York media labelling him the messiah day one and ripping him to shreds with every misstep.  Everyone is confident until they get punched in the face. 

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23 minutes ago, JiF said:

Was he?  Arguable.   I'd give it to Entienne before him.

 

You mean the same Travis Etienne who couldn't keep Clemson's undefeated season alive without Trevor Lawrence @ QB?

And only went 1-1 without Trevor Lawrence?

Compared to 35-1 with Trevor Lawrence? 

Travis Etienne against ND without Trevor Lawrence of 2020 = lol

18 rushing attempts for only 28 rushing yards (1.6 yards per carry) and 1 TD? 

And that's your Clemson Heisman Award Candidate?

The RB who couldn't get it done and LOST the game without his QB in Trevor Lawrence?!?

Would you like to see what Trevor Lawrence did against Notre Dame during his Freshman season during the Cotton Bowl? He WON the game...

27/39 (69.2%), 327 passing yards, 3 TD's/0 INT's along with a QB Rating of 165.0 during a 30-3 blowout against a 12-0 Notre Dame team..

18 rushing attempts for only 28 rushing yards (1.6 yards per carry) 1 TD and a loss without Trevor Lawrence as his QB but yet you'd "Give it to Etienne before Trevor"? 

tenor.gif.80bb9eafe62894ed1b11febe7e715e98.gif

 Wake me up when Travis can go 35-1 without Trevor Lawrence instead of 1-1 without him...

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13 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He looked pretty composed against what people were claiming was an all time Alabama defense the previous year.

Again, posted this before but that game was won by the Clemson Dline and defense. The pick 6 to start the game for Bama threw them completely off their game. And yes Lawrence played well in that game but he wasn't the reason they won. Multiple turnovers and failed 4th down attempts by the Bama O is what decided that game. So yes in games his team had less talent he's 1-1 . That's a pretty small sample size to build a strong argument on. 

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8 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I don’t know if the statistics bear it out but he looks better this year at all facets of the game. Just better ball placement all around. 

Agreed. In my initial eval of him, I was somewhat lukewarm. But Lawrence took it to another level this year, he looks like a surgeon out there and his receivers are worse than they were the last 2 years with Higgins going to the NFL and Ross getting injured. 

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2 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Again, posted this before but that game was won by the Clemson Dline and defense. The pick 6 to start the game for Bama threw them completely off their game. And yes Lawrence played well in that game but he wasn't the reason they won. Multiple turnovers and failed 4th down attempts by the Bama O is what decided that game. So yes in games his team had less talent he's 1-1 . That's a pretty small sample size to build a strong argument on. 

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If you say so. He passed all over what had been a historically dominant defense. The "he only does it in the ACC" stuff is just bunk.

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6 hours ago, JiF said:

Likewise, my whole love for Fields is just really in response to the ridiculousness of Lawrence being generational.  He's never been the clear cut best QB in the NCAA but he's generational?  He wont even win a Heisman.  That's just now how it works if you're generational. 

 

I generally agree with you on most stuff, but the last 3 "generational quarterbacks" (Elway, Manning, Luck) didn't win the Heisman either. 

 

@JiF ignore my post, I saw 3 other people make the same exact point and you responded. LOL, I have nothing new to add. 

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1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

image.png.46d735496f164093eb91cb609b0f6174.png

If you say so. He passed all over what had been a historically dominant defense. The "he only does it in the ACC" stuff is just bunk.

And 18-33  259 against Ohio St and 18-37 234 against LSU  last year  One win one loss . Once again a very small sample size where his team didn't have more talent.

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51 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Lawrence has superior passing skills, yes...  Just as important is what goes on in the space between his ears.  He is very well grounded to the extent that no moment is overwhelming for him.  He is mature beyond his years, intelligent and has an ordered personality.  He is not the million dollar arm with the ten cent brain.  

You have to study the entire player.  Not just the arms and legs.  

Then that's not the eye test. 

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29 minutes ago, JiF said:

Looked beyond overwhelmed vs. LSU, not hard looking composed vs. the sh*tty ACC.

That's pretty funny considering the fact that the only reason why Fields couldn't play against LSU last year was because he was outperformed by Trevor Lawrence during the playoff game and lost to Clemson due to tossing 2 INTs and a laughable 14 rushing attempts for only 13 yards and an embarrassing 0.9 yards per rush attempt. 

You want to talk about the ACC but yet ignore that 3 of Fields wins this year came against laughing stocks of the crappy Big 10 ala 1-3 Nebraska, 1-4 Rutgers and 0-5 Penn State? lol

And then once finally playing a decent Indiana D tossed 3 INT's? 

For a matter of fact the last two good defenses Fields has had to face he's tossed a combined 5 whopping INTERCEPTIONS (Clemson/Indiana). 

Only an unknowledgeable football fan talks down on the ACC when over the past 20 years (recently) the ACC has featured way more teams in the National Championship Game than the Big 10 has lol

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10 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

And 18-33  259 against Ohio St and 18-37 234 against LSU  last year  One win one loss . Once again a very small sample size where his team didn't have more talent.

What about Fields 5 INTs combined against his last only 2 good Ds he's played against Clemson/Indiana?

Funny how against Ohio State you ignored his 2 TD passes/0 INTs and 1 rushing TD with a QB Rating of 140.5 compared to JF's 2 INTs and 14 rushes for 13 yards and 0.9 average yards per rush attempt lol and against LSU wasn't a great game but he commented 0 INTs and it took a 5th year college student in Burrow to give him his 1st and only loss ala 35-1 and 76-1 dating back to HS. 

And what, you're just going to ignore the undefeated 12-0 Notre Dame team he destroyed during the playoffs as a Freshman who had the 13th ranked Defense in the Nation? 

Screenshot_20201123-164604.thumb.png.774cb260e7b27ae1e70d974cba7ea8e8.png

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8 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

What about Fields 5 INTs combined against his last only 2 good Ds he's played against Clemson/Indiana?

Funny how against Ohio State you ignored his 2 TD passes/0 INTs and 1 rushing TD with a QB Rating of 140.5 compared to JF's 2 INTs and 14 rushes for 13 yards and 0.9 average yards per rush attempt lol and against LSU wasn't a great game but he commented 0 INTs and it took a 5th year college student in Burrow to give him his 1st and only loss ala 35-1 and 76-1 dating back to HS. 

And what, you're just going to ignore the undefeated 12-0 Notre Dame team he destroyed during the playoffs as a Freshman who had the 13th ranked Defense in the Nation? 

Screenshot_20201123-164604.thumb.png.774cb260e7b27ae1e70d974cba7ea8e8.png

Exactly - so both QB's have struggled against teams with close to or better talent then them - It debunks the whole generational talent BS. 

Look I've said multiple times I think both are quality QB's who can hopefully take it to the next level. Its the fanboys who want to hold onto the once in a lifetime prospect thing who are continuing this argument. 

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1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He looked pretty composed against what people were claiming was an all time Alabama defense the previous year.

Sure did but Baron said, "he's never looked overwhelmed" - yes, he has.

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33 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Exactly - so both QB's have struggled against teams with close to or better talent then them - It debunks the whole generational talent BS. 

Look I've said multiple times I think both are quality QB's who can hopefully take it to the next level. Its the fanboys who want to hold onto the once in a lifetime prospect thing who are continuing this argument. 

100% - people are very emotional about this, even though I've argued against this generational b.s., I've literally said 100x but some reason it's ignored that both are great prospects and I'd be happy with either one.  The Jets are lucky to have 2 great guys to choose from assuming both declare.   And I've said 20x,  I'm more than confident TL will be the QB for the NY Jets and that's exciting because he's an incredible prospect but instead of paying attention to me simply giving an objective analysis, I got Stans' following me around responding to my every post like I just insulted their god or something.

 

 

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