***OFFICIAL*** FIRE JOE DOUGLAS THREAD

[Big_Slick]

9 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Who is the gold standard GM Woody should have paid ?  Name him please. 

If there is a gold standard GM there's zero chance he takes the Jets job.

But once you determine the current GM sucks you make a change and give the new guy a chance.  I'm old enough that I'm coming around to SAR's philosophy. I don't have many 5 year rebuilds left. 

[doitny]

20 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Parcells was 3-12-1 in his first season as head coach and started Mark Brunnel more often than Phil Simms.  You would have fired a future HOF coach with your infantile impatience.  Great job!  Your football acumen is off the charts.  Sometimes new coaches need to learn on the job.  By the time Parcells got to the Jets he had 16-17 seasons of experience and had coached in 3 SBs with  two other teams.  But you want to keep churning through coaches and GMs year after year, guaranteeing instability and losing.  If the Jets do not improve significantly by the end of 2022, Douglas and Saleh will likely be goners. Until then, even a semi-intelligent fan understands they deserve a chance to demonstrate that improvement.  

excellent post.

these guys dont care about any of this. it falls on deaf ears.

[doitny]

42 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Obviously nobody can PROVE that they can draft as well as GM's but picking at the top of the 1st round is easy.

i beg to differ.

there is a lot of hype for the 1st rd. they devote whole TV shows and hours of talk radio to them. 

example: JD had a bunch of QBs to choose from. now he is trying to do his job but there is so much media  talk,.Jets should take this guy....no that guy is the 2nd best QB in the draft..ext...ext..

nobody is talking anything for a month or 2 about day 2 and 3 guys. 

imagine if Jax didnt think Trevor was the best QB.? could they not draft him? the media already crowned him great in December. 

i think there is alot of media pressure on those 1st rd picks and thats why you see so many busts in that round. 

you cannot hear for 2 months that any player is some great talent and it not influencing your judgement. nobody talks like that about the later rds. you can pick who you want.

[Biggs]

11 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I proved you wrong, and you doubled down. Care to triple down? Feel free. My point was proven, and you're free to be wrong a third time. 

He’s resume sucks.  Your point is a big bag of excuses for the team with blind hope it will get better. 

[Biggs]

13 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

To compare the team that Parcells inherited, to the team Douglas inherited is laughable. Parcells inherited a team that had infinite more talent.

Say what you want about JD, and ok. But let's keep the conversation real

To compare Douglas and Saleh to Young and Parcells at this point is a Joke.  
Because every great HC and GM took over a bad team and turned it around doesn’t  mean that Douglas and Saleh can.  It  ignores all the GMs and HCs who took over bad teams and left them just as bad or worse.   They all had a plan.  

Until there are tangible results there are excuses.  This thread is simple a big pile of them.   I love Douglas and Saleh.  I also can except the very distinct possibility that they aren’t more than mean average NFL talent evaluators.  They aren’t better than mean average at coaching up talent and I know they aren’t inventing the next great O like Stram or a Walsh.   These guys were hired because the guys they worked for were on balance better than the NFL mean and maybe it rubbed off on them. 

One of the posters actually posted Lefleurs resume to “prove” he was qualified to be a high school football HC.  Laughable how deluded we have become just because we would like to see the Jets field a good team. 

[Scott Dierking]

12 hours ago, SAR I said:

No. That talent sucked balls under Rich Kotite.

A talented head coach that demanded wins brought out that talent, an indictment on Robert Saleh but he’s got another month before we fly planes in his honor.

SAR I

You really say some stupid things. We are talking about the talent. Not the coaching bringing out the talent.

To steal an idiot thing that you say, "This is a Joe Douglas thread. If you want to talk about Robert Saleh, start that thread".

Your schtick is so old.

[Scott Dierking]

35 minutes ago, Biggs said:

To compare Douglas and Saleh to Young and Parcells at this point is a Joke.  
Because every great HC and GM took over a bad team and turned it around doesn’t  mean that Douglas and Saleh can.  It  ignores all the GMs and HCs who took over bad teams and left them just as bad or worse.   They all had a plan.  

Until there are tangible results there are excuses.  This thread is simple a big pile of them.   I love Douglas and Saleh.  I also can except the very distinct possibility that they aren’t more than mean average NFL talent evaluators.  They aren’t better than mean average at coaching up talent and I know they aren’t inventing the next great O like Stram or a Walsh.   These guys were hired because the guys they worked for were on balance better than the NFL mean and maybe it rubbed off on them. 

One of the posters actually posted Lefleurs resume to “prove” he was qualified to be a high school football HC.  Laughable how deluded we have become just because we would like to see the Jets field a good team. 

I was comparing the talent of what Parcells inherited, to what Douglas inherited. That is the post I was responding to.

Prove me wrong that Parcells had LESS talent. Go ahead.

[68JET11]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lmao.

 

TOP POSTERS IN THIS TOPIC

• SAR I  298 posts

• kevinc855   129 posts

Proof that this thread has mental integrity lol...  The 2 most sorry as$'d posters on JN.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

He’s resume sucks.  Your point is a big bag of excuses for the team with blind hope it will get better. 

You can delude yourself into thinking whatever you want, but he is objectively qualified to be an offensive coordinator in the NFL. 

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Obviously nobody can PROVE that they can draft as well as GM's but picking at the top of the 1st round is easy. Even then some GM's eff it up, like Gettlemen, Idzik and Macc  (I hope JD is not going to make that list). The draft gurus on this board would have picked much better players than those clowns.

JD has had three high 1st round picks and only AVT looks like he'll turn out to be an excellent pick. Becton is a question mark and was a big gamble by JD. Zach looks terrible and we all know the problems he had so far so I won't list them here. Again, I fully support Zach and hope like hell he turns it around and plays like a FQB.

It's day 2 & 3 where good GM's find gems and fill out the roster. That's where the Jets need JD to shine.

Its easy to say you would have picked a player or players that became stars when you discuss six possible picks and then when one turns into a star you say, I had him at the top of my board.  Its like when I worked at OTB and the gamblers would say, shlt, I had that horse.  You looked at their racing sheet when they showed it to you and yes they had that horse, and 3 others.  

Becton isnt a question mark, hes a huge talent you has played well.  A guy who wasnt an injured player in 3 years of college turns into an injured NFL player it isnt a knock on anyone.  And hes a little young to make predictions that he will be injury prone off of a knee and shoulder injury a year ago.  I'm not knocking him for "Zach looking terrible".  Lawrence looks the same, Fields and Lance worse.  4 GMs suck at drafting because their rookie QBs look like rookies?  Would Zach look the same if he played on a talented team like NE or even SF?  You think maybe being on the youngest team in the NFL might be part of the problem, that theyre all trying to learn the game? 

Look at the young secondary and tell me he hasnt made any good picks on day 2 or 3

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

No. That talent sucked balls under Rich Kotite.

A talented head coach that demanded wins brought out that talent, an indictment on Robert Saleh but he’s got another month before we fly planes in his honor.

SAR I

We have the youngest team in the NFL

How anyone could think of comparing this roster to the roster that Parcells took over is amazing.  Once again SAR shifting history to suit his crazy argument 

[BP]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lmao.

 

TOP POSTERS IN THIS TOPIC

• SAR I  298 posts

• kevinc855   129 posts

Relentless lol and both are beaming with pride over being season ticket holders.

[Biggs]

24 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I was comparing the talent of what Parcells inherited, to what Douglas inherited. That is the post I was responding to.

Prove me wrong that Parcells had LESS talent. Go ahead.

What does Douglas have to do with Parcells.  In 1983 Parcells was a rookie HC who was picked after the resignation of Perkins.  He had zero to do with the Giants rosters.  George Young was the Giants GM.  Of course the Giants had more talent.  George Young was a great GM.  Douglas hasn't proven he can shine his shoes.   

Prove you wrong.  What's with this proof thing?  In 1983 the entire league was different.  The Giants played in a division with a 14 and 2 Redskins team a 12 and 4 Dallas team and the Cardinals actually had a winning record at 8,7 and 1.   The AFC East sucks.  The Jets have been destroyed against crappy teams with one exception and they were decimated with injuries when we played them.   Parcells had a B QB in Brunell and when he put Simms in Simms got hurt and was out for the rest of the season.  The Jets are starting the No. 2 pick in the entire draft at QB.

Parcells didn't put together the Giants roster.  Joe Douglas has put together the Jets roster.  I agree with you George Young was good.    

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, JETSY14 said:

When Woody wants basement bargain gm's this is what you get.

 

You get what you pay for. 

 

The same reason why you don't have a separate entrance to get to your seats like the suite psl ticket holders.  You get what you pay for !

And JD was a hot commodity who asked for 2 extra years and got it and for a 1st time GM is paid more than normal 1st year GMs

Add in Woody didnt hire him, Chris did and your reply turns into more fantasy than fact just to try and make a point that isnt actually there

[Jet Nut]

15 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

That’s one reliable starter. Becton will be out all season (just wait for the Saleh announcement in a few weeks) and mann is a very average punter. It’s also silly to waste a pick on a punter. So one guy he got. One, that’s Idzik type bad 

That you're predicting a player who is coming back soon will miss the entire season based on nothing more than total nonsense you made up because you think its a knock on JD and also that you think its silly to draft a player who is responsible for flipping the field at the end of the draft shows how pointless these posts are because you just say shlt based on nothing

[kdels62]

How many pages do I have to read before I can make an informed decision? 

[Biggs]

16 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

You can delude yourself into thinking whatever you want, but he is objectively qualified to be an offensive coordinator in the NFL. 

He's qualification is he's the rookie HC's BFF.  Lefleur has yet to prove he's qualified to be an OC in the NFL.  To say he has is pure delusion.  It's not objective at all.  It's subjective.  It's your opinion.  You don't even know what objective or proof actually mean. 

Go put your thumbs down on this.  It's my opinion not proof that you're thin skinned.  

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

What does Douglas have to do with Parcells.  In 1983 Parcells was a rookie HC who was picked after the resignation of Perkins.  He had zero to do with the Giants rosters.  George Young was the Giants GM.  Of course the Giants had more talent.  George Young was a great GM.  Douglas hasn't proven he can shine his shoes.   

Prove you wrong.  What's with this proof thing?  In 1983 the entire league was different.  The Giants played in a division with a 14 and 2 Redskins team a 12 and 4 Dallas team and the Cardinals actually had a winning record at 8,7 and 1.   The AFC East sucks.  The Jets have been destroyed against crappy teams with one exception and they were decimated with injuries when we played them.   Parcells had a B QB in Brunell and when he put Simms in Simms got hurt and was out for the rest of the season.  The Jets are starting the No. 2 pick in the entire draft at QB.

Parcells didn't put together the Giants roster.  Joe Douglas has put together the Jets roster.  I agree with you George Young was good.    

Heres whats totally wrong and is proven over and over again without needing all the words to try and make a point that is silly.  You dont judge a draft after one season or even two, never mind 5 games

Argue all you want, give all the examples you want but you would think all those who watched posters make total asses out of themselves wanting to trade Quinnen in his first season "for maybe a third" would have learned 

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

He's qualification is he's the rookie HC's BFF.  Lefleur has yet to prove he's qualified to be an OC in the NFL.  To say he has is pure delusion.  It's not objective at all.  It's subjective.  It's your opinion.  You don't even know what objective or proof actually mean.  

Objective as in insinuating that the only reason LaFleur is the OC is because you believe that hes Salehs BFF?   Based on what, a HC actually brought someone he coached with to his first NFL gig?  

This isnt your opinion, its fact?   Its objective or proof? 

[Biggs]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Heres whats totally wrong and is proven over and over again without needing all the words to try and make a point that is silly.  You dont judge a draft after one season or even two, never mind 5 games

Argue all you want, give all the examples you want but you would think all those who watched posters make total asses out of themselves wanting to trade Quinnen in his first season "for maybe a third" would have learned 

I'm not arguing that Joe D can or can't draft.  My argument is we don't know if he can draft above the NFL mean and won't know for a while.  In the meantime making excuses for what's on the field doesn't change the fact that Douglas may actually suck.  Saleh may be in over his head?

I have never advocated firing either one of them.  I'm just not sure why we need to make excuses for them unless the team sucks more than we expected it to?

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Objective as in insinuating that the only reason LaFleur is the OC is because you believe that hes Salehs BFF?   Based on what, a HC actually brought someone he coached with to his first NFL gig?  

This isnt your opinion, its fact?   Its objective or proof? 

Of course it's my opinion.  Everything I post is my opinion just like everything you post is your opinion.  Lefleurs resume is very thin and the way they have handled Wilson to date is embarrassing.  You couple that with Saleh comment that they will lift Zach and it's my opinion that Saleh had no idea what he was doing with Zach. 

People commenting that they are objective is nonsense.  I don't claim to be objective.  If you're claiming you are you're lying to yourself.  

[BP]

2021 was just his second draft. He’s doing much better than the last 15 years. Last good draft we had was 2006 lol think about that. And the Jets need players, not one player. And he robbed Seattle blind and got rid of an embarrassing headache all in one shot. 

[Scott Dierking]

11 minutes ago, Biggs said:

What does Douglas have to do with Parcells.  In 1983 Parcells was a rookie HC who was picked after the resignation of Perkins.  He had zero to do with the Giants rosters.  George Young was the Giants GM.  Of course the Giants had more talent.  George Young was a great GM.  Douglas hasn't proven he can shine his shoes.   

Prove you wrong.  What's with this proof thing?  In 1983 the entire league was different.  The Giants played in a division with a 14 and 2 Redskins team a 12 and 4 Dallas team and the Cardinals actually had a winning record at 8,7 and 1.   The AFC East sucks.  The Jets have been destroyed against crappy teams with one exception and they were decimated with injuries when we played them.   Parcells had a B QB in Brunell and when he put Simms in Simms got hurt and was out for the rest of the season.  The Jets are starting the No. 2 pick in the entire draft at QB.

Parcells didn't put together the Giants roster.  Joe Douglas has put together the Jets roster.  I agree with you George Young was good.    

My suggestion for you is rather than just popping into a thread, and spouting off, Read the context of the posts, the replies, and what preceded those replies. That will give you context, and you would not need to ask that question. Please try to follow along.

I was responding to KMNJ's post:

  18 hours ago, kmnj said:

 

Parcells showed us you can inherit a bad team and use a plan to have them competing for a championship right away  and even leave the team with a foundation behind as well

[Jet Nut]

Just now, Biggs said:

I'm not arguing that Joe D can or can't draft.  My argument is we don't know if he can draft above the NFL mean and won't know for a while.  In the meantime making excuses for what's on the field doesn't change the fact that Douglas may actually suck.  Saleh may be in over his head?

I have never advocated firing either one of them.  I'm just not sure why we need to make excuses for them unless the team sucks more than we expected it to?

So youre answer comes out of both sides of your mouth?  We dont know what he is yet but he could suck?  No mention that he could become a above average GM?  Nah, doesn't fit the narrative.  And who's making excuses for him.  His first draft a year later or bitching about another draft 5 games later is making excuses?  No judging a draft 5 games in is stupid and shows a real lack of NFL acumen. 

Whos made a single excuse for Saleh?  Other than hes learning on the job and will make mistakes.  Thought where's a shining example of a game changing mistake hes made?  Other than to blame him for 1-5 as if we lost 5 games we were favored to win and Saleh cost us those wins.  They play hard, they dont give up, they've come back late in most games but I get thats enough but ill make the argument that theyre young and less talented than most teams when they walk onto a field, maybe we have to wait and see before sounding like SAR who's just trolling the board

[Jet Nut]

9 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Of course it's my opinion.  Everything I post is my opinion just like everything you post is your opinion.  Lefleurs resume is very thin and the way they have handled Wilson to date is embarrassing.  You couple that with Saleh comment that they will lift Zach and it's my opinion that Saleh had no idea what he was doing with Zach. 

People commenting that they are objective is nonsense.  I don't claim to be objective.  If you're claiming you are you're lying to yourself.  

Is the way Lawrence, Fields and Lance embarrassing?  Because they've been as bad or worse than Wilson.  And each has had experienced OCs handling their growth and play calling.  

Someone on itv was talking about this a week or 2 ago.  If Lawrence was in NY playing like he is in Jax and Wilson in Jax playing as he is in NY the whole story would be the same with the players switched.  We read it, absorb it and repeat it.  

[Biggs]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

My suggestion for you is rather than just popping into a thread, and spouting off, Read the context of the posts, the replies, and what preceded those replies. That will give you context, and you would not need to ask that question. Please try to follow along.

I was responding to KMNJ's post:

  18 hours ago, kmnj said:

 

Parcells showed us you can inherit a bad team and use a plan to have them competing for a championship right away  and even leave the team with a foundation behind as well

I wasn't attacking you but since you want a response with context.  Comparing Parcells 1983 with Parcells NY Jets is completely out of context.  Parcells was a rookie HC who didn't pick the groceries in 1983.   When he took over the NY Jets he had a deep resume and full control.  

If you want context your responee to kmny was ridiculous.  

If you want me to conect the dots that because Parcells went from a mediocre rookie HC to a HOF HC with a reasonable record picking the groceries means Joe Douglas will be a great GM, I'm not there.  

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

I wasn't attacking you but since you want a response with context.  Comparing Parcells 1983 with Parcells NY Jets is completely out of context.  Parcells was a rookie HC who didn't pick the groceries in 1983.   When he took over the NY Jets he had a deep resume and full control.  

If you want context your responee to kmny was ridiculous.  

If you want me to conect the dots that because Parcells went from a mediocre rookie HC to a HOF HC with a reasonable record picking the groceries means Joe Douglas will be a great GM, I'm not there.  

I was speaking to what Parcells inherited with the Jets. But , if you want to insinuate the Giants, my statement holds true, still. BTW, this is the same insinuation that silly SAR made also (with the Jets).

Again, the proposition is not mine. I never made it. I said it was ridiculous as well. Your issue is with kmnj. He set it up. All you did was to confuse a silly proposition already.

 

[Matt39]

Douglas needs the guys from the last two drafts to start playing better. Getting virtually nothing of impact two drafts in a row with a team that didnt have any talent to begin with isnt good.

[jamesr]

To compare the team that Parcells inherited, to the team Douglas inherited is laughable. Parcells inherited a team that had infinite more talent.
Say what you want about JD, and ok. But let's keep the conversation real

This also happened >20 years ago but it's still brought up as "proof" that you can build a strong contender in the NFL in one off season.

The old "statistical anomaly being used as the norm" situation.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[kevinc855]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Objective as in insinuating that the only reason LaFleur is the OC is because you believe that hes Salehs BFF?   Based on what, a HC actually brought someone he coached with to his first NFL gig?  

This isnt your opinion, its fact?   Its objective or proof? 

Welcome to a Jets message board

opinions are what we do here 

 

 

[Biggs]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Is the way Lawrence, Fields and Lance embarrassing?  Because they've been as bad or worse than Wilson.  And each has had experienced OCs handling their growth and play calling.  Someone on itv was talking about this a week or 2 ago.  If Lawrence was in NY playing like he is in Jax and Wilson in Jax playing as he is in NY the whole story would be the same with the players switched 

Fields and Lance are starting because of injury not plan.  In both cases the plan was for both of them to sit as part of their development. 

Lets compare Lawrence to Zach.  Both are being coached by rookie's who don't know what they are doing.  Both have sucked.  Lawrence as much as his sucked is being blown away in the suck department by Zach.  To give you context, Lawrence has a QB rating that's 13 points better than Zach Wilson.   At the low levels both of them are at that's very significant level of suck for Zach. 

[jamesr]

7-9
2-14
1-16
PROGRESS!!!
SAR I

They say it's darkest right before the dawn ...

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[kevinc855]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Douglas needs the guys from the last two drafts to start playing better. Getting virtually nothing of impact two drafts in a row with a team that didnt have any talent to begin with isnt good.

Exactly, not one player he has drafted is a “wow” player being talked about on NFL network. 
 

Lots of busts and a few turning into decent to ok starters. His FA pick ups have all been meh or hurt. 

And worst of all, his QB he gambled on has not been good. 

Result 1-4.

This is the team he fielded and his alone. Maybe the Jets turn it around. We will see

[Biggs]

6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I was speaking to what Parcells inherited with the Jets. But , if you want to insinuate the Giants, my statement holds true, still. BTW, this is the same insinuation that silly SAR made also (with the Jets).

Again, the proposition is not mine. I never made it. I said it was ridiculous as well. Your issue is with kmnj. He set it up. All you did was to confuse a silly proposition already.

 

I have no issue with either of you.  Where having a friendly discussion about the NY Jets.  I'm sure if we were watching a game together I would offer you a beer.

[Jetsfan80]

39 minutes ago, BP said:

Relentless lol and both are beaming with pride over being season ticket holders.

I wonder if lil Kev leases BMWs.