No home for Sammy

[ZachEY]

15 minutes ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

I am tired of fans making excuses for Darnold. 

I am tired of fans making excuses for Darnold. 

I am tired of fans making excuses for Geno. 

I am tired of fans making excuses for Sanchez. 

I am tired of fans making excuses for Pennington. 

Agreed X at least 4.

 

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Mental Gymnastics all around!

Those that think there's some super secret plan that involves moving on from Darnold, and those that think there's a possibility that Darnold isn't the worst QB in the NFL.

My question is, related to 'Embrace it."  How do you recommend embracing us doing the same stupid sh*t we've done for the past 20 years, that's led us to being out of the playoffs for the past 10?

 

Because due to a misguided love for Mike Maccagnan, Pac needs for Jamal Adams and Darnold to have been a better end result than the Jets just taking Deshaun Watson instead.  

[ZachEY]

2 hours ago, oatmeal said:

One unnamed offensive coach even went so far as to say, "He stinks, bro," regarding his feelings on Darnold.

It's Gase, isn't it.  Tell me it was Gase.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Because due to a misguided love for Mike Maccagnan, Pac needs for Darnold and Jamal Adams to have been a better end result than Deshaun Watson.  

Pac's certainly not alone though.

I wonder what the Venn Diagram of Sam Darnold is Good and Maccagnan was Good (or at least, not bad) looks like.  Probably not just a single overlapping circle, but how far away are we?

[Adobolo]

It's been said on here by people who are more in tune with what's going on in the front office than me that we will trade Sam if we get an offer that outweighs or equal to trading out of #2.

My interpretation of it is Joe has put a price on Sam that no team is willing to pay because he wants to keep him and trade out of #2 but give the impression we will draft wilson/fields to raise the price of trading down in the draft.

If a team does give what Joe is asking for Sam, great but otherwise he won't be traded and will be our starting QB next year.

[JazzyJet]

25 minutes ago, Ghost420 said:

Because then you wasted the 2nd overall pick. You would have to trade darnold at some point. Farve wasn't in his early 20s when Rodgers got there. 

right, but in the hypothetical scenario where Wilson couldn't beat Darnold out then you wasted the 2nd overall pick anyway regardless if Darnold is there or not.

There are a few ways this could play out. 

1) They're both good - you stick with who you think truly has the brighter future or the cheaper contract.

2) Only the rookie is good - trade Darnold mid season for whatever you can get to a QB desperate team or let him walk.

3) Only Darnold is good - then stick with him and accept that you would have wasted the pick anyway.

4) Neither are good - then you're back at square one.

what am I missing? 

[Ghost420]

4 minutes ago, JazzyJet said:

right, but in the hypothetical scenario where Wilson couldn't beat Darnold out then you wasted the 2nd overall pick anyway regardless if Darnold is there or not.

There are a few ways this could play out. 

1) They're both good - you stick with who you think truly has the brighter future or the cheaper contract.

2) Only the rookie is good - trade Darnold mid season for whatever you can get to a QB desperate team or let him walk.

3) Only Darnold is good - then stick with him and accept that you would have wasted the pick anyway.

4) Neither are good - then you're back at square one.

what am I missing? 

I just think you make a decision. If you are staying with darnold 1 more year move the pick. If you want a qb, move darnold. 

[Lith]

20 minutes ago, JazzyJet said:

right, but in the hypothetical scenario where Wilson couldn't beat Darnold out then you wasted the 2nd overall pick anyway regardless if Darnold is there or not.

There are a few ways this could play out. 

1) They're both good - you stick with who you think truly has the brighter future or the cheaper contract.

2) Only the rookie is good - trade Darnold mid season for whatever you can get to a QB desperate team or let him walk.

3) Only Darnold is good - then stick with him and accept that you would have wasted the pick anyway.

4) Neither are good - then you're back at square one.

what am I missing? 

I hear what you are saying, but I think that if you draft a QB at 2, you have to put all of your efforts into edeveloping that QB.  Not enough reps to go around with two developmental QBs on the roster.  If you don't like any rookies, commit another year to Darnold.  If you like the rookie, then truly commit to him and move on from Darnold.  Personally, I prefer the second option.

[Lith]

33 minutes ago, Adobolo said:

It's been said on here by people who are more in tune with what's going on in the front office than me that we will trade Sam if we get an offer that outweighs or equal to trading out of #2.

My interpretation of it is Joe has put a price on Sam that no team is willing to pay because he wants to keep him and trade out of #2 but give the impression we will draft wilson/fields to raise the price of trading down in the draft.

If a team does give what Joe is asking for Sam, great but otherwise he won't be traded and will be our starting QB next year.

I have seen the posts that you are referring to, and that thought process makes me queasy. 

If the rest of the league does not think Darnold iis good enough to give up significant assets for, then he gets another year as our QB.  I sure hope that is not really the thought process in Florham Park.  Evaluate Darnold.  Evaluate the rookies.  Pick who you think has the most potential and commit to the best option.  If we stick with Darnold because we think he is the best option, that is fine.  If we stick with hiim becasue others are not willing to give us enough in trade -- just seems like a bad approach to me. 

Evaluate the players and make a decision.  Don't allow others to make it for you.

 

[Adobolo]

31 minutes ago, Lith said:

I have seen the posts that you are referring to, and that thought process makes me queasy. 

If the rest of the league does not think Darnold iis good enough to give up significant assets for, then he gets another year as our QB.  I sure hope that is not really the thought process in Florham Park.  Evaluate Darnold.  Evaluate the rookies.  Pick who you think has the most potential and commit to the best option.  If we stick with Darnold because we think he is the best option, that is fine.  If we stick with hiim becasue others are not willing to give us enough in trade -- just seems like a bad approach to me. 

Evaluate the players and make a decision.  Don't allow others to make it for you.

 

I know this theory is hard to comprehend in a quarterback crazy nfl but joe possibly is thinking about improving the worst roster in the league before inserting the next QB.

Personally I think there is a greater chance we trade back up from 23 for a qb and let them sit behind sam over drafting wilson at #2 and that way we still pick up the extra draft capital like a 1st next year. Let sam play out the year without the 5th year option and deal with the dilemma of his success/failure at the end of next season.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Adobolo said:

Let sam play out the year without the 5th year option and deal with the dilemma of his success/failure at the end of next season.

If Darnold's trade stock is a 2nd rounder or even a 3rd, this still makes no sense.  You're essentially trading a 2nd or 3rd round pick away for 1 year of Sam Darnold + a shot at a 2023 compensatory pick.

Would anyone here be happy if we traded away a 3rd round pick for, say, Mitchell Trubuisky or Gardner Minshew on an expiring contract?  Of course not.  And those 2 have had much better careers than Darnold to date.

[Lith]

13 minutes ago, Adobolo said:

I know this theory is hard to comprehend in a quarterback crazy nfl but joe possibly is thinking about improving the worst roster in the league before inserting the next QB.

Personally I think there is a greater chance we trade back up from 23 for a qb and let them sit behind sam over drafting wilson at #2 and that way we still pick up the extra draft capital like a 1st next year. Let sam play out the year without the 5th year option and deal with the dilemma of his success/failure at the end of next season.

My point is that JD should make that decision on his own.  If he thinks the best approach long term is to trade back from 2, build the roster and solve for QB later.  That is fine.  I would prefer a different approach, but what do I know. 

My point is it should be his decision, not contingent on what other teams are willing to give up for Sam.

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Would anyone here be happy if we traded away a 3rd round pick for, say, Mitchell Trubuisky or Gardner Minshew on an expiring contract?  Of course not.  And those 2 have had much better careers than Darnold to date.

Exactly this. 

But Sam's fans refuse to objectively compare him to guys like Minshew or Trubisky. They default to "the evil Gase and Macc" argument. They want to attribute each player's relative success (or lack thereof)  to his surroundings, without assigning any blame to the player in question. 

I wonder if these folks think Ryan Leaf would have been a hall of famer if he was drafted by the Colts instead of the Chargers? 

[section314]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

I have seen the posts that you are referring to, and that thought process makes me queasy. 

If the rest of the league does not think Darnold iis good enough to give up significant assets for, then he gets another year as our QB.  I sure hope that is not really the thought process in Florham Park.  Evaluate Darnold.  Evaluate the rookies.  Pick who you think has the most potential and commit to the best option.  If we stick with Darnold because we think he is the best option, that is fine.  If we stick with hiim becasue others are not willing to give us enough in trade -- just seems like a bad approach to me. 

Evaluate the players and make a decision.  Don't allow others to make it for you.

 

I fully believe this decision has already been made. probably a few months ago. Just waiting for the pro days to put that 5% doubt out of his mind.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, Adobolo said:

It's been said on here by people who are more in tune with what's going on in the front office than me that we will trade Sam if we get an offer that outweighs or equal to trading out of #2.

My interpretation of it is Joe has put a price on Sam that no team is willing to pay because he wants to keep him and trade out of #2 but give the impression we will draft wilson/fields to raise the price of trading down in the draft.

If a team does give what Joe is asking for Sam, great but otherwise he won't be traded and will be our starting QB next year.

Joe's trade of Jamal Adams supports this.  If JD is set on a certain valuation it seems almost impossible that another NFL team will meet his asking price.  Then again, it only takes one team.

[Adobolo]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If Darnold's trade stock is a 2nd rounder or even a 3rd, this still makes no sense.  You're essentially trading a 2nd or 3rd round pick away for 1 year of Sam Darnold + a shot at a 2023 compensatory pick.

Would anyone here be happy if we traded away a 3rd round pick for, say, Mitchell Trubuisky or Gardner Minshew on an expiring contract?  Of course not.  And those 2 have had much better careers than Darnold to date.

Trading sam now nets a 2nd or 3rd round pick as you say.

Holding on to sam nets a top 10 pick this year, plus a 1st in 2022 and most likely a 2nd plus more this year in the trade out of number 2 over all.

It's all about how you value the risk of keeping sam with the extra draft stock over the risk of picking Wilson.

Everyone always say the teams who picked before 12 in the 2017 nfl draft passed on Maholmes and what a mistake that was, no one ever critique Buffalo trading the #12 to the chiefs because they used that capital to get Allen in the next draft and build around him. The jets are in a similar situation where we can use any draft capital we aquire now to build around Sam or a qb we select in the future.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Adobolo said:

Trading sam now nets a 2nd or 3rd round pick as you say.

Holding on to sam nets a top 10 pick this year, plus a 1st in 2022 and most likely a 2nd plus more this year in the trade out of number 2 over all.

It's all about how you value the risk of keeping sam with the extra draft stock over the risk of picking Wilson.

Everyone always say the teams who picked before 12 in the 2017 nfl draft passed on Maholmes and what a mistake that was, no one ever critique Buffalo trading the #12 to the chiefs because they used that capital to get Allen in the next draft and build around him. The jets are in a similar situation where we can use any draft capital we aquire now to build around Sam or a qb we select in the future.

 

And to that I'll offer this:  In that case, why not trade out AND trade Darnold, and roll with an alternative bridge QB option this season?

There's no scenario in all of this where Darnold HAS to be kept, is my point.  

[Adobolo]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

And to that I'll offer this:  In that case, why not trade out AND trade Darnold, and roll with an alternative bridge QB option this season?

There's no scenario in all of this where Darnold HAS to be kept, is my point.  

Absolutely, get Alex smith in for a bridge year if that's what you think is the right thing to do.

A percentage of fans have given up on Sam and want noting to do with him. I'm not going to go down the route of giving excuses of why he failed that's been said to death and the argument can be made for a change of team will be good for both the jets and Sam but personally I'd like to see him with good personal and coaching around him before throwing my hat at it.

Joe and Robert are here for the long haul and I'm a patient man so a slow rebuild doesn't bother me, I want it done right and not just select the next qb highest in the draft because that's the way it's always been done.

Build the roster and insert a QB when the time is right is what I want.

[ChewyandtheJets]

Darnold will not be on the team next year.  Period.  End of story.  If they have to trade him for a 6th round pick than that is what they'll do because that is all he will be worth.  Why I am 100% confident this is the case?  Because when specifically asked if he would accept trade calls on Darnold he did not answer "no he is untouchable."  He did not answer "well it is my job to take calls on anyone, I would trade my wife if the right offer came along."  The latter statement being a very stock answer that reinforces your belief in a player while keeping the option for return open without leaving too deep a scar.  He didn't even both to take that route, instead he just flat out said yes without any regard.   To me and any of us still wondering that means in his mind he is already gone and not worth any further consideration.   If that's not the case than it was a reckless, relationship destroying comment made in a very public forum from one team leader about another and there's no way Douglas would be foolish enough to do that.   

   

 

[Jet Nut]

35 minutes ago, ChewyandtheJets said:

Darnold will not be on the team next year.  Period.  End of story.

We're done here then?

 

[Philc1]

But Craig Carton said 9 teams were offering us second round picks plus a gift certificate to Arbys

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I am tired of fans making excuses for Darnold. 

I am tired of fans making excuses for Geno. 

I am tired of fans making excuses for Sanchez. 

I am tired of fans making excuses for Pennington. 

Agreed X at least 4.

 

You will be making excuses for Fields and Wilson fairly soon

[ChewyandtheJets]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

We're done here then?

 

Unofficially Yes!

 

[ZachEY]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You will be making excuses for Fields and Wilson fairly soon

Oh?

[Morrissey]

7 hours ago, Adobolo said:

It's been said on here by people who are more in tune with what's going on in the front office than me that we will trade Sam if we get an offer that outweighs or equal to trading out of #2.

My interpretation of it is Joe has put a price on Sam that no team is willing to pay because he wants to keep him and trade out of #2 but give the impression we will draft wilson/fields to raise the price of trading down in the draft.

If a team does give what Joe is asking for Sam, great but otherwise he won't be traded and will be our starting QB next year.

There is no way decisions for franchise QB's are made like that. Either Joe Douglas believes Zach Wilson is elite franchise QB worthy of being selected #2 overall or he doesn't. What we decide with Darnold will be secondary.