No home for Sammy

[extmenace]

1 hour ago, Grandy said:

If we keep Sam and pass on a QB we are going to regret it for a long time. With recent trends it's highly likely more than one of the top 4 QB's will light it up (and assuredly be better than Darnold), and we'll be sitting at 8-8 with our "good" roster and our QB that just needs "moar wepones" and another half decade of development.  We can build a great roster, but we're not winning anything meaningful with Darnold.

We have a premium pick to take a highly rated prospect at the most important position in sports. You don't roll with a consistent bottom 5 QB who with historical trends has under a 5% chance to even be good with what he's done so far. Penei Sewell with Darnold isn't going to win us a SB. A great QB will. 

Current QBs drafted with a top 5 pick in the NFL:

mayfeild, Kyler Murray, Matt Ryan, stafford, burrow, wentz, goff, tua, Newton, Darnold.

This will obviously increase after this years draft but over half the league have starting qb’s that we’re taken outside the top 5 picks in the draft. Factor in that these are also the only players in the NFL that are starting qb’s since Matt Ryan was drafted in 2008 that were drafted in the top 5. I’m not going to go through and count how many QBs were actually drafted in the top 5 since 2008 but If you think about it, the hit rate has to be low. Extremely low. My point is that we just fired a loser head coach that has a proven track record of failing to utilize talent. His offense has only worked with Peyton Manning running it. We have a highly drafted qb that is still on his rookie deal. The likelihood of Sam turning it around vs the success rate of top 5 qb’s. If you actually think about it, taking a QB that high is  just as risky as moving on from Sam at this point. The front office knows this. The team is better suited to build and play with house money. If Sam pans out great, if not you take the low percentage shot with a better supporting cast in place next year. 

[SAR I]

SAR I

[Pac]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Sorry, no mental gymnastics here.

JD has proven to be a difficult negotiator.  He's waiting for his asking price.

Do you think Seattle offered 2 1's and a 3 for Adams off the bat?

Just the fact that he ALSO got a 3rd on top of 2 1's - tells me he actually walked away from 2 1's....We have no idea how long that process took but it def wasn't over a matter of days.

Sam will be traded.  For what is really the only question.

You're entitled to your opinion and while not the craziest thing I've heard the last couple years, (that was Jamal only netting a 3rd), I simply think you're wrong.

It's been widely reported that no less than 8 teams have contacted JD about Sam.  If you don't think any of them have already floated the idea of a 2nd rounder you're nuts. 

What's much more logical is JD is reluctant to trade Sam because he, like most other GMs in the league, sees untapped potential that has been stymied by a porous O-line, lackluster offensive weaponry, and utterly horrific coaching. 

I don't know how many times this needs to be said but giving a prove it year to Sam, who will be out of excuses, does not mean you can't move on next year armed with at least 3 first rounders.

The thought of drafting an undersized glam boy who had 1 good year playing against the likes of Utah College for the Blind, and the University of Who Gives a Sht, is about as appealing as re-signing Buster Skrine.

I think at this point JD has narrowed it down to Sam or a reasonable trade for Watson.  The 6th member of NSYNC will not be on the roster.

[rex-n-effect]

Most of the discussion here surrounds Darnold or Watson/draft but we shouldn't rule out that the team may keep Darnold and draft a QB at #2. We don't know that the front office and new coach wouldn't want to invite a QB competition and let Darnold get his first honest shot at playing with a decent offense. If Darnold gets beat then he's probably traded away fairly soon and if he wins then this year's draft pick gets to spend a year learning a pro system and then try to win next season. As much as I do not think Darnold is a winning QB for this team it might be a better option to not put all the eggs in one basket. 

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

You're entitled to your opinion and while not the craziest thing I've heard the last couple years, (that was Jamal only netting a 3rd), I simply think you're wrong.

It's been widely reported that no less than 8 teams have contacted JD about Sam.  If you don't think any of them have already floated the idea of a 2nd rounder you're nuts. 

What's much more logical is JD is reluctant to trade Sam because he, like most other GMs in the league, sees untapped potential that has been stymied by a porous O-line, lackluster offensive weaponry, and utterly horrific coaching. 

I don't know how many times this needs to be said but giving a prove it year to Sam, who will be out of excuses, does not mean you can't move on next year armed with at least 3 first rounders.

The thought of drafting an undersized glam boy who had 1 good year playing against the likes of Utah College for the Blind and the University of Who Gives a Sht is about as appealing as re-signing Buster Skrine.

I think at this point JD has narrowed it down to Sam or a reasonable trade for Watson.  The 6th member of NSYNC will not be on the roster.

You know, this was a very good post and while I didn't agree - you were taking a reasonable position.  But then you write the bolded and take all legitimacy from your post. 

Zach Wilson is a legitimate prospect - with a skill-set highly suited to today's NFL.  He's not under sized - at 6'3" 215 - he heavier than T. Lawrence and as tall as Rodgers and Mahomes- His team finished ranked 11th in the country (it's not some third tier program)

Complete and total dismissal of the most likely scenario isn't reasonable.

It's more likely than anything that the Jets will trade Sam and take Wilson at 2.  While Watson is certainly possible, it's still much further from reality than Zach being the next QB of the NYJ.

[NamathToCaster]

Sam needs to go.  He is dividing the fan base.  It's over.  He is not the real deal.  

[Pac]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

But then you write the bolded and take all legitimacy from your post. 

that's kinda my thing bro..  I'm here for the lulz and to talk crap with fellow Jet fans.

while capable, I don't have it in me to write @Sperm Edwards like novellas waxing poetic about the minutia at Florham Park.  Much more entertaining to imply Wilson is a Backstreet Boy and move on rather than a dissertation on why his lack of experience against top defenses should eliminate him from being considered for the 2nd overall pick.

[oatmeal]

6 minutes ago, NamathToCaster said:

Sam needs to go.  He is dividing the fan base.  It's over.  He is not the real deal.  

As I always said, Sam is too  ? to be this polarizing 

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Sam is a back up??? lol what??? This is the most ridiculous statement I have heard from Jets fans in awhile.. Really? you really believe that? good god, you guys are looney tunes with this stuff.

What else do you call the #35 rated qb in the NFL 

[Rhg1084]

just take a 4th rounder for him

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

2 hours ago, jetspenguin said:

Dalton might not be a starter anymore but don't fool yourself. Fitztragic will steal Sammy's lunch money any day of the week. 

A 38 year old QB on his 8th team who has never ever led a team to the playoffs? Give me Darnold any day of the week.  There's a reason Fitz keeps moving.  He keeps getting replaced by young QBs and he eventually craps the bed - year after year.  

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, nycdan said:

Umm...that would be true IF we knew Douglas was actually trying to trade him.  Which we don't know.

Or if we knew as fact that for the right deal these teams still wouldnt trade for Darnold and let the best man win.  Fitz, Tyrod and Dalton arent exactly Marino, Montana and Elway

[Morrissey]

10 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

just take a 4th rounder for him

Say it louder for the people in the back

[Scoop24]

He Stinks Bro ?. I don't know why i found that funny 

[genot]

56 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You know, this was a very good post and while I didn't agree - you were taking a reasonable position.  But then you write the bolded and take all legitimacy from your post. 

Zach Wilson is a legitimate prospect - with a skill-set highly suited to today's NFL.  He's not under sized - at 6'3" 215 - he heavier than T. Lawrence and as tall as Rodgers and Mahomes- His team finished ranked 11th in the country (it's not some third tier program)

Complete and total dismissal of the most likely scenario isn't reasonable.

It's more likely than anything that the Jets will trade Sam and take Wilson at 2.  While Watson is certainly possible, it's still much further from reality than Zach being the next QB of the NYJ.

Good post by you. Good post by Pac. It's not just Sam vs Wilson. It's Sam and a bunch of extra picks vs Wilson. Forget o-line. Ws need linebackers who fit a 4-3 defense. The only one who's performed at a high level, hasn't played in two years 

[Grandy]

1 minute ago, Scoop24 said:

He Stinks Bro ?. I don't know why i found that funny 

Of all the insightful quotes from NFL sources that is certainly out of left field.

[slimjasi]

17 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

just take a 4th rounder for him

Matt Lombardo or Joe Beningo? 

[Sperm Edwards]

52 minutes ago, Pac said:

that's kinda my thing bro..  I'm here for the lulz and to talk crap with fellow Jet fans.

while capable, I don't have it in me to write @Sperm Edwards like novellas waxing poetic about the minutia at Florham Park.  Much more entertaining to imply Wilson is a Backstreet Boy and move on rather than a dissertation on why his lack of experience against top defenses should eliminate him from being considered for the 2nd overall pick.

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful

[Grandy]

I have been curious about how actual teams felt about Darnold for a while. I see some fans, and a lot of media elevating him as some sort of babe in the woods who has been abused through his career. However with the lack of a market for him, I was interested on how it actually is. A QB needy team not trading a low 1 or high 2 for him signals that they most likely believe in Kellen Mond and Trask more than Darnold as a future QB. Pretty scary imo.

[Pac]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful

I appreciate the brevity despite the absurd implication.

[FidelioJet]

16 minutes ago, genot said:

Good post by you. Good post by Pac. It's not just Sam vs Wilson. It's Sam and a bunch of extra picks vs Wilson. Forget o-line. Ws need linebackers who fit a 4-3 defense. The only one who's performed at a high level, hasn't played in two years 

This point certainly isn't lost on me.  I get the haul we can bring in and would love it, but I see two things that tell me almost certainly Sam will be gone and we're taking a QB at 2.

1) All you're doing is kicking the can down the road a year where it's likely to cost you a bunch of picks to trade up to get your guy - or you're sitting at 9 or 10 looking to draft a lesser talent and hoping.  We've been in QB purgatory for 20 years now.  We need to find our guy.  Right now you get access to a top tier prospect.  Who knows what you'll have next year. A bird in the hand.

2) As you noticed yesterday, two hours into free agency the Fire Joe Douglas chain started to blow up.  Angry fans had the pitchforks out.  Just imagine what happens if they pass on a QB at 2 and Sam starts out 0-3.  Holy sh*t.  I'm really not sure JD gets another year if the Jets go 6-10 with Sam.

JD and the Johnsons are well aware of what will happen if they keep Sam and don't go the playoffs.  Bottom line, if you keep Sam you have to win now...And this team isn't ready to win now.

 

[FidelioJet]

19 minutes ago, Scoop24 said:

He Stinks Bro ?. I don't know why i found that funny 

Because it was funny!  Made me laugh...

 

[IndianaJet]

Y’all crazy if you think teams paying back up money for Fitz, Dalton and Taylor mean they’re out on Darnold. 
 

Darnold has two things those guys don’t.  Youth and a perceived untapped talent. 
 

NFL coaches and GMs will convince themselves that they can fix Darnold and Dalton et al. on the roster won’t stop them from making a deal.  

[oatmeal]

35 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

just take a 4th rounder for him

Hmmmmmmm 

 

Doesn’t this directly contradict everything some here been pushing about how we are stupid fans and “people that get paid to make these decisions are very high on Darnold” 

SMFH we were right again, Anyone But Darnold crowd

[Jetsfan80]

35 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

just take a 4th rounder for him

 

Weren’t we just being told a few weeks ago that league execs are higher on Darnold than Jets fans?  Lmao. 

[Jetsfan80]

33 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

A 38 year old QB on his 8th team who has never ever led a team to the playoffs? Give me Darnold any day of the week.  There's a reason Fitz keeps moving.  He keeps getting replaced by young QBs and he eventually craps the bed - year after year.  

Darnold will be out of the league by the time he’s 27.  Fitz >>> Darnold.

[oatmeal]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Weren’t we just being told a few weeks ago that league execs are higher on Darnold than Jets fans?  Lmao. 

Smfh some are getting exposed today ???

 

(including Darnit) 

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Weren’t we just being told a few weeks ago that league execs are higher on Darnold than Jets fans?  Lmao. 

You can't look at one source and all of a sudden take that as gospel when EVERY other source has stated the exact opposite.  

IMO, Sam will be traded and will land at least a #2 pick.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I suspect this is what's happening. 

It's what JD did with Adams and Seattle gave in to his asking price.  I think JD is over playing his hand right now.  Take the 2nd and move on.

Are you so sure there are all these teams willing to give up a 2nd?.I hope there is one but there could be none. 

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

You can't take to one source and all of a sudden take that as gospel when EVERY other source has stated the exact opposite.  

IMO, Sam will be traded and will land at least a #2 pick.  

Idk about that. The peak of Darnold’s value has seemingly passed. I feel like if Douglas was offered a 2 he’d have jumped at it.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, kdels62 said:

Idk about that. The peak of Darnold’s value has seemingly passed. I feel like if Douglas was offered a 2 he’d have jumped at it.

Maybe Douglas overplayed his, maybe he didn't.  We will see.

I said this before but I keep looking at the Adams trade to understand the way JD works.

We heard for a quite some time JD was listening to offers. If you knew what was going on would you have said," if JD was offered a first round pick for Adams he would have taken it"? 

Most fans would have been happy with one 1.  What if someone told you during that time that JD just turned down 2 first round draft picks.  Because he did, in fact, turn down 2 - #1's for Jamal Adams.  Getting the extra 3rd tells me that.

I think there was almost certainly multiple offers of 2's on the table - whether there still there is a question, but I think ultimately we'll get the 2.

[oatmeal]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You can't look at one source and all of a sudden take that as gospel when EVERY other source has stated the exact opposite.  

IMO, Sam will be traded and will land at least a #2 pick.  

If any team let alone the Jets we’re high on Darnold this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, oatmeal said:

If any team let alone the Jets we’re high on Darnold this wouldn’t even be a discussion.

The Jets are in a different situation with Sam.  He's toxic here, he won't be in other places.  When all's said and done Jets can't keep him, but he still has value.

[peebag]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

Nobody wants Sam Darnold.

Or no one wants Fields or Wilson.

[SR24]