Mims the body catcher: it's not a new problem

[doitny]

so Saleh was right to bench him all those games.?

[PepPep]

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is absolutely ridiculous and only on here because he had a couple of drops last night? This is insane. He extends his arms on almost every catch attempt where its natural to do so and tries to catch it with his body when its not or when he feels he needs to protect it. And even if he did catch some passes with his 'body' does that make him a 'body catcher'? I'm watching these clips of the dude showing what soft hands and fantastic reach he has. What great awareness and ability to highpoint the ball he displays. And the argument is that he's a 'body catcher' because the next few plays he catches the ball thrown at the numbers with his body. Gimme a break.   

[Sperm Edwards]

@Jetsfan80 if I may be of assistance, here’s a Paradis to English translation for you to help with the above:

Everyone should be quiet. Absolutely no posting on this website unless agreeing with me or unless saying things approved by me. To do otherwise makes it unreadable. 

I know best what others should be thinking. Also I totally have no egregious insecurity or anger management issues, have a wonderful sense of humor, and a keen ability to laugh at myself.

Any criticism of a player I’ve hyped should be expected to be taken as an attack on me personally. The problem is never me, and I’m never wrong; it’s everyone else. It’s always everyone else. 

Now everyone ignore weeks of actual game footage, to instead look closely at this video of 1-on-1 practice drills I’ve posted, in a controlled environment where no defender is permitted to hit Mims - let alone a deep safety permitted smash into him from behind, full speed - and in particular please ignore at 0:20 where he body-catches on the first belly-height pass in these drills anyway, followed by doing it again at 0:50. Only look at the passes where body catching isn’t a possibility.

lmao

[Hex]

45 minutes ago, doitny said:

so Saleh was right to bench him all those games.?

Maybe we should trust Saleh a little more than we have. He's sucked so far, but most people outside of this forum expected a 3-14 season and we almost have 3 wins a little more than a third into the season. His defense is atrocious, which nobody expected, but they have had good games too, which shows that they have that potential. Saleh just needs some trial and error, I think. 

[doitny]

52 minutes ago, Hex said:

Maybe we should trust Saleh a little more than we have. He's sucked so far, but most people outside of this forum expected a 3-14 season and we almost have 3 wins a little more than a third into the season. His defense is atrocious, which nobody expected, but they have had good games too, which shows that they have that potential. Saleh just needs some trial and error, I think. 

he was right picking White instead of the vet Johnson for QB2

your right, he does need some trail and error. hes a rookie too.

after Buffalo there are alot of winnable games. we could end with 6 maybe 7 wins. that would be a 4-5 win improvement. but people here will still bitch and complain.

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

@Jetsfan80 if I may be of assistance, here’s a Paradis to English translation for you to help with the above:

Everyone should be quiet. Absolutely no posting on this website unless agreeing with me or unless saying things approved by me. To do otherwise makes it unreadable. 

I know best what others should be thinking. Also I totally have no egregious insecurity or anger management issues, have a wonderful sense of humor, and a keen ability to laugh at myself.

Any criticism of a player I’ve hyped should be expected to be taken as an attack on me personally. The problem is never me, and I’m never wrong; it’s everyone else. It’s always everyone else. 

Now everyone ignore weeks of actual game footage, to instead look closely at this video of 1-on-1 practice drills I’ve posted, in a controlled environment where no defender is permitted to hit Mims - let alone a deep safety permitted smash into him from behind, full speed - and in particular please ignore at 0:20 where he body-catches on the first belly-height pass in these drills anyway, followed by doing it again at 0:50. Only look at the passes where body catching isn’t a possibility.

lmao

Dude. We both know you’re on the level. You know what I meant and the over arching point i was making. That rant wasn’t directed at @Jetsfan80 or even yourself entirely. This forum/fanbase has become hyper-reactive and preposterously presumptuous 

[Beerfish]

Invasion of the body catchers.  Yeah he is pointing at Mimsy.

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Dude. We both know you’re on the level. You know what I meant and the over arching point i was making. That rant wasn’t directed at @Jetsfan80 or even yourself entirely. This forum/fanbase has become hyper-reactive and preposterously presumptuous 

I'm only giving you a like due to the use of the bolded words.

[Paradis]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'm only giving you a like due to the use of the bolded words.

hey i'll take it. 

[fltflo]

We can all hope he comes around, I think we would all agree he would be a hell of a weapon if he can put it together.
Personally I think we just need to keep putting him out there and let him play thru his yelps. It my belief that once he starts having consistent games he is going to be okay. That’s not saying he won’t have drops, just more catches.


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[JETSY14]

7 hours ago, doitny said:

he was right picking White instead of the vet Johnson for QB2

your right, he does need some trail and error. hes a rookie too.

after Buffalo there are alot of winnable games. we could end with 6 maybe 7 wins. that would be a 4-5 win improvement. but people here will still bitch and complain.

7 wins... Your funny!

 

[Dunnie]

Excellent post. Keyshawn had similar issues as a rookie and corrected it.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Great so now mims = keyshawn? ... how did i miss that ?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[playtowinthegame]

7 hours ago, Paradis said:

Dude. We both know you’re on the level. You know what I meant and the over arching point i was making. That rant wasn’t directed at @Jetsfan80 or even yourself entirely. This forum/fanbase has become hyper-reactive and preposterously presumptuous 

M&MS

Melts in your mouth, not in his hands.

[JustInFudge]

I'll go against the grain here (not Paradis style) but this an extreme exaggeration and unnecessary characterization of Mims.  Even in the video you posted, he picks a ton of balls out of the air with his hands.  The "body catches" are sometimes necessary and honestly, hard sometimes to tell from on screen if it's a true "body catch" ie; using his body to secure the ball vs. he's just catching close to his body but not necessary using it to cradle the ball upon reception.  FWIW - the best receivers in the league catch with their body from time to time, I think there are times where it is necessary as WR, especially big bodied guys who can use their frame to box out defenders.

We obviously dont have a huge sample size for Mims but there are enough very pretty grabs where he's all hands and plucking it out of the air, IMO that would determine that this an unfair characterization of Mims.

 

 

[sec101row23]

9 hours ago, PepPep said:

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is absolutely ridiculous and only on here because he had a couple of drops last night? This is insane. He extends his arms on almost every catch attempt where its natural to do so and tries to catch it with his body when its not or when he feels he needs to protect it. And even if he did catch some passes with his 'body' does that make him a 'body catcher'? I'm watching these clips of the dude showing what soft hands and fantastic reach he has. What great awareness and ability to highpoint the ball he displays. And the argument is that he's a 'body catcher' because the next few plays he catches the ball thrown at the numbers with his body. Gimme a break.   

Agreed.   I think a lot of people don’t know what they are looking at and look at one or two plays and come up with some silly labels.  Every receiver will have a few catches where the ball gets into his body, that’s the nature of the position, but the vast majority of the time Mims picks the ball out of the air with his hands.  
 

Corey Davis has had more balls bouncing off of him than a porn star, but Mims get banished for one drop.  Give Mims that type of role and you’d see a very different receiver.  

[JustInFudge]

21 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.   I think a lot of people don’t know what they are looking at and look at one or two plays and come up with some silly labels.  Every receiver will have a few catches where the ball gets into his body, that’s the nature of the position, but the vast majority of the time Mims picks the ball out of the air with his hands.  
 

Corey Davis has had more balls bouncing off of him than a porn star, but Mims get banished for one drop.  Give Mims that type of role and you’d see a very different receiver.  

I just had this thought jump into my head too...Corey Davis seems much more like a body catcher than Mims. 

[sec101row23]

4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I just had this thought jump into my head too...Corey Davis seems much more like a body catcher than Mims. 

For a bigger receiver Davis’ catch radius isn’t that big.  He’s made some plays sure, but he’s also been heavily targeted when Zach was in there.   He’s not really good in contested catch situations either.  

[Bleedin Green]

3 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I just had this thought jump into my head too...Corey Davis seems much more like a body catcher than Mims. 

In fairness, it does seem there's a longer list of reasons why Mims is clearly the team's worst WR, beyond only his hands.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, JETSY14 said:

7 wins... Your funny!

 

look at the schedule. or are you in the phase that you can never see us beating another team again phase. usually happens after a bad loss.

[JETSY14]

10 minutes ago, doitny said:

look at the schedule. or are you in the phase that you can never see us beating another team again phase. usually happens after a bad loss.

If the bucs and bills rest players the last two weeks we are lucky to win 5 games. 

 

If Wilson plays the rest of the season we win one game. If  white plays the rest of the year then there is hope. 

[doitny]

16 minutes ago, JETSY14 said:

If the bucs and bills rest players the last two weeks we are lucky to win 5 games. 

 

If Wilson plays the rest of the season we win one game. If  white plays the rest of the year then there is hope. 

thats what i meant... 7 all together 7-10... 

sorry my bad, should have made that more clear.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

All great points on Mims, and the thing that expands on that further, driving the point home a bit more is that there are a lot of uncaught targets on top of that.  Last year he had one of the lowest catch rates on the team (just 1 catch over 50%) and this year is now coming in dead last (exactly 50%).

While catch rate may not be entirely on the WR, it is very meaningful when looked at on a relative scale, and if everyone else is doing better, then there's really no question that he's the problem on a number of those plays.  Of course, we have all seen that before us with 3 drops on 8 targets in the past 2 games as a starter.

In fairness to Mims (or any WR/TE/RB), even when the QB's outright throwing it away OOB I think whichever WR is the one technically "in the vicinity" gets credited with a non-catch target. Just like kneeling on the ball isn't really a rushing attempt but still - even with as popular as fantasy football has been since the 90s - gets counted as -1 rushing yards each time stats-wise. 

So with a low catch rate, sometimes it's because of pressure-caused throwaways; sometimes the QB missed the man no matter how open he was, where he'd need to be 15 feet tall with a 10 foot reach to catch it; and yes sometimes it's drops.

Drops get recorded, though. On the other hand, they're really generous in the WRs' favor; like a tie goes to the runner in baseball, a mildly tough catch that hits a guy in the hands very often doesn't get recorded as a drop. e.g. one of the first passes of the year was a low pass to Moore (he still got two hands on it, and you can even hear the announcer saying, "and it's dropped") yet his stat line still shows zero drops this season. I remember looking after the first ~2 games and the recorded drops numbers for Corey Davis (bad as those were) seemed to be missing a couple as well.

Still, I'd be lying if I said I remembered how many uncaught attempts to Mims last year were the result of throwaways, terrible passes that were similarly uncatchable, or were outright drops. But on how many tighter coverage attempts were him waiting for the ball to come to his breadbox instead of reaching out those long arms to get it, and that enabled the pass to get batted away? I don't know, maybe none; maybe a few. I will say Darnold's deep ball accuracy didn't do him or any receivers any favors, nor a crappy OL allowing time for the play to develop before Darnold was under duress himself.

[Irish Jet]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Corey Davis has had more balls bouncing off of him than a porn star, but Mims get banished for one drop.  

3 drops in his last 6 targets. Including a game changing TD. 

The people still defending this guy are absolutely ridiculous. He's terrible and there's a reason the coaches deemed him as such. 

Should have taken whatever we could at the deadline. We have enough at WR and should look to strengthen elsewhere. Cole is far, far better. 

[Irish Jet]

11 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Everyone should be quiet. Absolutely no posting on this website unless agreeing with me or unless saying things approved by me. To do otherwise makes it unreadable. 

Yup.

With every subject too. 

[jgb]

12 hours ago, Paradis said:

Yea it’s called film. Sperm should get out his head for a bit. There’s not one fcking way to win at ANY position in the NFL. 

 

this site has become virtually unreadable, littered with a bunch know it alls who don’t sh*t about shi*t but every week they’re threading about how it’s this way or that way. And its all happening in 2 week vacuums. Moore sucks. Then he’s amazing. (Insert other name x1000)

Mims can play… will it come together here or elsewhere? Who fcking knows. Everyone needs to shut up about everything and let the season play out. 

this thread is trash. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I just had this thought jump into my head too...Corey Davis seems much more like a body catcher than Mims. 

Well I don't know if you can be much more of a body-catcher than 80% of his opportunities to do so last year, and 100% of his opportunities to do so this year. So the alarming/notable thing is the disproportionate rate at which Mims has been doing it. I don't even think Mims has got bad hands when he uses them, making it even worse. They all body catch sometimes, though.

No doubt, Davis has been a disappointment this year. A couple really nice catches of his don't erase his amount of drops and other f-ups (followed by missing both games on the team's short week). It's not lost on me that Wilson wasn't the only starter who didn't see the field for either of these past two 400 yard passing games. 

Davis's recorded drops numbers are probably generous at 5 (which is a preposterous number to have at this juncture even if accurate). Even if that was all of them, you can't have a $13MM receiver dropping every 8th-9th pass thrown his way. Wilson's pass placement has hardly been spot-on, but at that money a big WR like Davis is expected to catch 95% of anything catchable. 

Davis had the opportunity to body-catch these attempts:

1. Preseason Week 2 - used his hands (as opposed to jumping to body-catch it). Accidentally started with this game. Stopped after this play after remembering GB was preseason lol. It's the weekend; sue me.
2. Week 1 - used his hands
3. Week 1 - (TD) used his body, but the pass was low and a bit behind him and he slid to get his body down. Still, fair is fair, though this one is iffy what anyone else would've done.
4. Week 1 - used his hands (but still dropped it ffs)
   1. Mims also body-caught his one catch for Sept; the 40-yarder that people were harping on for weeks.
5. Week 1 - used his body
6. Week 1 - (TD) used his body
   1. Week 2 - not a body catch play, but a different Davis f-up where he slipped and only getting batted up before that may have stopped a pick
7. Week 2 - used his hands when he could've easily body-caught it

Actually **** this, I'm not watching every terrible Jets game again on my sunny Saturday just to find every Corey Davis target close to his body. Anyone who wants to take over, go ahead. I'm going outside to have a catch with my kid.

But anyway, so far it's nowhere near the same body-catching rate when the opportunity is there for either. 

 

 

[Alworth]

15 hours ago, PepPep said:

Am I the only one who thinks this thread is absolutely ridiculous and only on here because he had a couple of drops last night? This is insane. He extends his arms on almost every catch attempt where its natural to do so and tries to catch it with his body when its not or when he feels he needs to protect it. And even if he did catch some passes with his 'body' does that make him a 'body catcher'? I'm watching these clips of the dude showing what soft hands and fantastic reach he has. What great awareness and ability to highpoint the ball he displays. And the argument is that he's a 'body catcher' because the next few plays he catches the ball thrown at the numbers with his body. Gimme a break.   

        Gutsy post. Mims still needs to prove himself, but he deserves more chances for sure for the above stated reasons. And contrary to another line of criticism (questionable work ethic), his willingness to do dirty work--see for example the blocking and the shared tackle on the INT in the Bengals--is clear.

[Bleedin Green]

12 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In fairness to Mims (or any WR/TE/RB), even when the QB's outright throwing it away OOB I think whichever WR is the one technically "in the vicinity" gets credited with a non-catch target. Just like kneeling on the ball isn't really a rushing attempt but still - even with as popular as fantasy football has been since the 90s - gets counted as -1 rushing yards each time stats-wise. 

So with a low catch rate, sometimes it's because of pressure-caused throwaways; sometimes the QB missed the man no matter how open he was, where he'd need to be 15 feet tall with a 10 foot reach to catch it; and yes sometimes it's drops.

Drops get recorded, though. On the other hand, they're really generous in the WRs' favor; like a tie goes to the runner in baseball, a mildly tough catch that hits a guy in the hands very often doesn't get recorded as a drop. e.g. one of the first passes of the year was a low pass to Moore (he still got two hands on it, and you can even hear the announcer saying, "and it's dropped") yet his stat line still shows zero drops this season. I remember looking after the first ~2 games and the recorded drops numbers for Corey Davis (bad as those were) seemed to be missing a couple as well.

Still, I'd be lying if I said I remembered how many uncaught attempts to Mims last year were the result of throwaways, terrible passes that were similarly uncatchable, or were outright drops. But on how many tighter coverage attempts were him waiting for the ball to come to his breadbox instead of reaching out those long arms to get it, and that enabled the pass to get batted away? I don't know, maybe none; maybe a few. I will say Darnold's deep ball accuracy didn't do him or any receivers any favors, nor a crappy OL allowing time for the play to develop before Darnold was under duress himself.

Agreed, and that's why on it's own, the catch rate isn't entirely definitive, but it's meaningful when looking at a relative comparison to those playing under the same circumstances.

As you mentioned, every receiver has to deal with uncatchable throws that are credited to them as the "target", but when the majority of the roster still has a catch rate of 60%+ and one guy continually hovers around 50%, even in his supposed "good" rookie year, that's a meaningful enough point to say, regardless whether it's simply hands / body catching, poor route running, or any other potential factor, his individual performance is clearly having a negative effect on the outcome.

[Jet_Engine1]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, sorry, thought you said Mims was a Body Snatcher....

 

 

[Butterfield]

On 11/5/2021 at 3:47 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

I posted this in another thread, but buried on page 3 in a spammy thread it wouldn't get enough eyeballs, considering I spent time on it and have unresolved ego/attention issues.

---

I hadn't realized how bad it was either, but he did it all the time last year as well, if the ball was placed in a position for possible body catching, except for the one time he could plainly see that no defender was anywhere near him on a sideline screen (no danger of getting creamed from behind his back), and one more iffy one. 

What threw off noticing is Mims did have a bunch of catches - about half of them - where body catching wasn't even an option. Passes were too high for that, or too low or too much in front of him. We just weren't harping on it last year because they weren't getting dropped, and frankly we were happy enough to see a rookie with playmaking skills catching passes however they happened.

Someone was nice enough to post this compilation on youtube:

• Pass #1 = in theory could have body-caught if he'd jumped up for no reason, but didn't. However there was no one within 10 yards of him so he knew he wasn't about to get hit hard anyway.
• Pass #2 = caught above his head. Body catching wasn't an option.
• Pass #3 = body catch
• Pass #4 = hard to tell, even slowing down the footage, but it looks like his hands were initially in front of his body and he's just bringing it in to his chest in one motion. Give him this one has a hands-catch.
• Pass #5 = great catch. Body catching wasn't an option.
• Pass #6 = full arm extension catch. Body catching wasn't an option
• Pass #7 = Jumped up to facilitate an unnecessary body catch. Maybe is able to turn and get a couple additional yards if he catches it with his hands instead of leaving his feet. Would've helped if Flacco hit him in stride, but he had more room to keep running in.
• Pass #8 = Flacco's pass was at his knees. Body catching wasn't an option.
• Pass #9 = Whether he pushed off or not, it was a terrific catch. Body catching again wasn't an option.
• Pass #10 = (DPI; no catch)
• Pass #11 = Another body catch
• Pass #12 = Even after leaving his feet, the ball is still caught at the top of his helmet: body catching wasn't an option.
• Pass #13 = Same type of pass/catch again. Body catching wasn't an option.
• Pass #14 = Full arm extension required to catch it. Body catching wasn't an option.
• Pass #15 = Left his feet to body catch it again
• Pass #16 = Pass hit him in stride, another body catch
• Pass #17 = Another body catch
• Pass #18 = Another body catch (2-pt attempt)
• Pass #19 = Another body catch

So the compilation's got 18 receptions, including a 2-pt conversion "TD" catch. He had 6 other receptions but I'm not chasing those down just to further a point already made here.

• 8 of 18 were passes where body-catching wasn't an option even if he wanted to (so he can catch).
• That leaves 10 left where body catching was possible.
• 8 of those 10 were pure body-catches. 

So he was clearly doing this last year, too, at a ridiculous rate of 80%. It certainly didn't just start because the coaches were mean to him this summer. He's got a clear body catching instinct, even unnecessarily jumping up at times to facilitate catching it like that. 

Thats not how math works.