Idzik Speaks! Inside a decade of dysfunction of New York Jets football

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, Barton said:

A few years ago one of my clients was from Seattle and we ending up talking. He told me Idzik goes to his church.

He also told me Idzik felt that Woody was giving him mixed messages on what he wanted.

Woody gives himself mixed messages.

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I noticed they left out the part where Idzik tells everyone all the good draft picks and signings he made. 

It's a short list. It starts and ends with Eric Decker.

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I noticed they left out the part where Idzik tells everyone all the good draft picks and signings he made. 

Eric Decker was a good signing. 

[Matt39]

double

[rex-n-effect]

The Johnsons are poor managers and it shows over the course of the past twenty years. Every time they stumbled into a good hire they found a way to screw it up. They aren't going away so our best bet is they stumble into another good hire and don't screw it up. 

Idzik was brought in to cut out the bloat Tannenbaum left behind after Mangini's departure but he was a terrible talent evaluator and to whatever extent he might have had a vision for the team marrying him to Rex definitely didn't help. I don't know who Idzik could have attracted as a head coach but probably some terrible pick--if only because the roster was such a mess when he got there. We're still essentially in the same place of cutting out the last guy's mistakes and trying to build up a functional roster. 

My spicy and totally unsubstantiated take about Gase and Manning is that Manning stayed salty about the Jets from his draft and he pitched Gase to the Jets as one final **** you to the team that wouldn't draft him. Manning hasn't done anything to help his bud out since despite his growing closeness with the Broncos organization.

[doitny]

8 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Manning stayed salty about the Jets from his draft and he pitched Gase to the Jets as one final **** you to the team that wouldn't draft him. 

we wanted to draft him, Peyton said no.

Due to either a fear of playing for the Jets or a chance to solidify himself as the No.1. pick in 1998, Manning decided to go back to Tennessee for his senior season. That decision sent ripples throughout the NFL that are still being felt to this day.

[doitny]

When Parcells was a guest on the ManningCast during the Buccaneers-Giants game, the Big Tuna confirmed that if Manning had declared in 1997, the Jets would’ve taken him with the No. 1 pick. If that happened, the trajectories of these two respective franchises would’ve been completely reversed.

 

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, doitny said:

When Parcells was a guest on the ManningCast during the Buccaneers-Giants game, the Big Tuna confirmed that if Manning had declared in 1997, the Jets would’ve taken him with the No. 1 pick. If that happened, the trajectories of these two respective franchises would’ve been completely reversed.

 

Interestingly, Parcells also implied he would have benched him during his rookie year, as the interceptions mounted. 

I wonder how that would have played out in New York . . .

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Interestingly, Parcells also implied he would have benched him during his rookie year, as the interceptions mounted. 

I wonder how that would have played out in New York . . .

Parcells was a king here, nobody would say anything. 

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

Parcells was a king here, nobody would say anything. 

He was king here after completely turning the franchise around in 97. 

But, if Peyton Manning starts from day 1 in 97 and is playing the way he played in Indy during his rookie season, it would have been very interesting to see how Parcells handled and how the media responded. I imagine they would have figured it out, but it could have made for a very interesting first year. 

[section314]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

This franchise has always needed, and its roar is deafening, a hardened "football" guy that oversees the operations. Someone that has has ears to the ground inside NFL circles and demands respect, and can advise Woody when he is about to cause harm to the organization by his football naivete. 

A number of organizations have been successful in bringing back smart, NFL entrenched,  organizational types. A number of those have been legacy players for that organization. And that is where the Jets have a problem. Exactly what player that has been part of this organization qualifies to fit that position? Someone that can be the grown up football guy in the room that helps feed the GM? 

Round and round we go.

Damien Woody

[T0mShane]

38 minutes ago, doitny said:

we wanted to draft him, Peyton said no.

Due to either a fear of playing for the Jets or a chance to solidify himself as the No.1. pick in 1998, Manning decided to go back to Tennessee for his senior season. That decision sent ripples throughout the NFL that are still being felt to this day.

Archie didn’t think Peyton could handle New York in the way that Eli could. This is well documented

[Scott Dierking]

2 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Where has this "home grown" former player football adviser worked in the NFL?  Denver?  I'm not sure former players are the best candidates for FO jobs.  Playing in the NFL doesn't make someone a talent evaluator.  

Ted Thompson, Ozzie Newsome, John Elway, John Lynch to name off the top of my head.

They do not have to be as much a talent advisor, but an ownership advisor bridging the gap between GM and owner, helping to guide decisions.

[Matt39]

2 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

This franchise has always needed, and its roar is deafening, a hardened "football" guy that oversees the operations. Someone that has has ears to the ground inside NFL circles and demands respect, and can advise Woody when he is about to cause harm to the organization by his football naivete. 

A number of organizations have been successful in bringing back smart, NFL entrenched,  organizational types. A number of those have been legacy players for that organization. And that is where the Jets have a problem. Exactly what player that has been part of this organization qualifies to fit that position? Someone that can be the grown up football guy in the room that helps feed the GM? 

Round and round we go.

Curtis Martin? I know Marvin Jones has been coaching and still follows the Jets closely. He understands that any player or coach that's brought in here has to embrace the history of the team aka the losing to really be successful. You're not going to get that understanding from most outside hires.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Curtis Martin? I know Marvin Jones has been coaching and still follows the Jets closely. He understands that any player or coach that's brought in here needs to understand the history of the team aka the losing to really be successful. You're not going to get that understanding from most outside hires.

I know Curtis is interested in an ownership stake someday too, so this could be a real step.  Anybody to get the Johnsons out of football ideating. 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Curtis Martin? I know Marvin Jones has been coaching and still follows the Jets closely. He understands that any player or coach that's brought in here has to embrace the history of the team aka the losing to really be successful. You're not going to get that understanding from most outside hires.

 

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I know Curtis is interested in an ownership stake someday too, so this could be a real step.  Anybody to get the Johnsons out of football ideating. 

Curtis Martin has said that he rarely watches football and only got into it as a way to get out of the projects, so maybe not the kind of guy we’d want running the franchise.

[Jet Life]

A “salary cap specialist” GM and a buffoon head coach. Not surprised that one failed 

[doitny]

24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Archie didn’t think Peyton could handle New York in the way that Eli could. This is well documented

and then as a FA he screwed us again and went to Denver. he said he didnt want to play in the same city as his brother. guess he didnt want to take that one car dealership commercial away from Eli

[Irish Jet]

7 minutes ago, doitny said:

and then as a FA he screwed us again and went to Denver. he said he didnt want to play in the same city as his brother. guess he didnt want to take that one car dealership commercial away from Eli

Shame.

Rex’s defence with Peyton Manning…We wouldn’t have lost a game.

[rex-n-effect]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

we wanted to draft him, Peyton said no.

Due to either a fear of playing for the Jets or a chance to solidify himself as the No.1. pick in 1998, Manning decided to go back to Tennessee for his senior season. That decision sent ripples throughout the NFL that are still being felt to this day.

 

I know that's what Parcells said during the manningcast but older stories indicate Parcells would not commit to taking Peyton as the first pick and Parcells said some obscure league rule was why he couldn't commit to it before the draft. Whether Parcells tells the truth now only he really knows.

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Shame.

Rex’s defence with Peyton Manning…We wouldn’t have lost a game.

if we could have just convinced Farve to stay one more year we would have won a SB in 2009. if Rex could ever get a good QB he would be dangerous.

[Irish Jet]

3 minutes ago, doitny said:

if we could have just convinced Farve to stay one more year we would have won a SB in 2009. if Rex could ever get a good QB he would be dangerous.

Favre would have bottled it and thrown 5 picks vs Indy.

[Matt39]

32 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

Curtis Martin has said that he rarely watches football and only got into it as a way to get out of the projects, so maybe not the kind of guy we’d want running the franchise.

He said that a while ago. I’ve met him a few times (cool story) and he’s pretty locked into the  team.

[THE BARON]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32822007/inside-dysfunctional-decade-new-york-jets-giants-football-went-wrong-next

The Jets were a franchise on the rise after reaching the AFC Championship Game in 2009 and 2010, but a series of missteps at the ownership level plunged them into turmoil. They're on their sixth general manager-coach pairing of the decade, three of which ended with ugly divorces and one lasting only four months.

It starts with owner Woody Johnson, whose great-grandfather founded Johnson & Johnson. While former GM Mike Tannenbaum called him "unconditionally supportive" -- and he was fired by Johnson after the 2012 season -- other former staffers and ex-players provided a less flattering view of Johnson. They described a man easily influenced by those in his inner circle and by public sentiment. One former member of the organization said Johnson replaced "good people" after the playoff run and "kept people not as qualified, but had his ear."

Johnson hired a search firm to find Tannenbaum's replacement, settling on former Seattle Seahawks cap specialist John Idzik, who was teamed with Ryan, the holdover coach. The relationship turned toxic. Idzik wanted to turn the Jets into Seattle East and Ryan, who had four playoff wins on his résumé, didn't want to change.

"That wasn't a good marriage, obviously, me and Idzik," Ryan said.

Idzik, in his first interview since being fired with Ryan after the 2014 season, told ESPN, "The coach-GM relationship, especially in the second year, was a major influence" in their downfall. "Ultimately, the guy to answer that question is Woody. In all candor, I did everything in my power to make it work with Rex and me."

Idzik was surprised he got only two years, saying, "I wasn't some young guy where you'd say, 'Let's see what he can do.' I had been around the league for a while. I wasn't a Johnny-come-lately." Speaking in a general sense, he said the constant turnover in the organization has resulted in "quality casualties."

Johnson, who declined to comment for this story, cleaned house in 2015, this time enlisting former NFL GMs Charley Casserly and Ron Wolf as consultants to lead the search for a coach and GM. They wound up with Todd Bowles and Mike Maccagnan, a Casserly protege and career scout who wasn't on any team's GM radar. They hired Bowles only after Johnson snubbed No. 1 target Doug Marrone, who had opted out of his Buffalo Bills' contract for the chance to reunite with Maccagnan, an old friend. Sources said Johnson got cold feet because of negative press surrounding Marrone's candidacy.

The Maccagnan-Bowles tandem, which lacked a clear vision, flirted with the playoffs in 2015, but otherwise was an abject failure. They tried the win-now approach, then downshifted into a massive rebuild/salary dump. By the end, the two men were barely talking to each other.

The height of dysfunction occurred in May 2019, when newly hired coach Adam Gase -- an uninspired choice -- won an internal power struggle that resulted in Maccagnan's ouster. Gase disagreed with Maccagnan on key personnel decisions, and the situation became so untenable that acting owner Christopher Johnson -- in charge while his older brother was overseas in a U.S. diplomatic post -- sent Maccagnan packing after the draft and a wild spending spree in free agency. It was so bad that Gase refused to sit next to Maccagnan in the draft room, sources said. Months later, Johnson told reporters that he regretted the timing of Maccagnan's ouster.

 

"It starts with ownership," said one former player, alluding to the Johnsons. "You've got to get the right people in. You've got to be able to have a strategy and a game plan and an identity. I'm not sure if they have that."

 

""It starts with ownership," said one former player, alluding to the Johnsons. "You've got to get the right people in. You've got to be able to have a strategy and a game plan and an identity. I'm not sure if they have that.""

WOW... You mean others realize where the real problem is ??? It wasn't just Bill Belichick that left town on a rocket sled after getting a load of the new incoming owner that saw a problem ???

I

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I think that's how the story went, as it was leaked to the fans. Even if 100% accurate, ultimately it was still Johnson's decision to sign off on or not. If Manning is deciding on the Jets HC hire, then hire Manning be the GM and hire Gase himself. 

Manning was qualified to recommend Gase as OC for an experienced, HOF QB who'd have little difficulty (or resistance) making calls at the line; nothing more.

The Manning thing was a CYA to convince fans/media that the Jets did their due diligence on Gase when the whole world knew they had missed out on McCarthy and Rhule because the team demanded veto power over assistants. The music stopped on the annual coaching carousel and the Jets were left without a chair. Enter Adam Gase who probably didn't have enough time to drop his box of personals back home after getting fired in Miami before flying up to NY.

[Ex-Rex]

4 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I would honestly be more interested in an in-depth with Maccaganan and Bowles.

The Rex/Idzik story was pretty obvious and played out pretty publicly.

Bowles let the players walk all over him. Mental and physical errors were in abundance - as they are now - and there was little to no accountability. Mac just didn't have the chops for the GM job and Idzik was spectacularly bad at drafting. Rex Ryan had a good thing going until he let his ego take over and jettisoned players like Braylon Edwards, Jerricho Cotchery and several offensive linemen which precipitated the fall of Mark Sanchez. 

[Ex-Rex]

1 hour ago, rex-n-effect said:

My spicy and totally unsubstantiated take about Gase and Manning is that Manning stayed salty about the Jets from his draft and he pitched Gase to the Jets as one final **** you to the team that wouldn't draft him. Manning hasn't done anything to help his bud out since despite his growing closeness with the Broncos organization.

I live in Tennessee where Peyton is King and I would punch him in his crooked nose because I think you are exactly right.  

[Bruce Harper]

He may want to blame the owners but his draft that year that he picked 12 players is right up there with the worst drafts in the history of the league.

[Jetscode1]

2 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Moore is good but on IR 

Carter is semi good so far and was on IR

Wilson stinks 

His late rounders stink 

21 was not a terrible draft but let’s stop acting like we changed the franchise in a draft.

and  Wilson if a bust sets us back years 

You appear to think Idzik had better drafts than JD.  Oh, the memories.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1622765-how-john-idzik-transformed-the-new-york-jets-in-just-one-draft

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2020/05/12/idzik-12-where-are-they-now-jets-2014-draft-picks-quincy-enunwa/

[Wit]

4 hours ago, slats said:

This is my hope. It’s pretty clear that JD and Saleh are partners on the same page. That alone is different than anything we’ve seen around here since Tanny and Rex - the last time this team had any success at all. Time will tell if the page they’re on is a good one, but I like what they’re trying to do and that’s why I support them. The forced marriages of the previous decade were disasters. This time they’re actually trying to do things the right way. 

Also, saleh reports to Joe, so there isn’t as much behind the back swiping at each other. 

[Wit]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Moore is good but on IR 

Carter is semi good so far and was on IR

Wilson stinks 

His late rounders stink 

21 was not a terrible draft but let’s stop acting like we changed the franchise in a draft.

and  Wilson if a bust sets us back years 

We changed the offense significantly, and if we had a veteran QB it would probably look even better. Rookies QBs struggle. 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Wit said:

Also, saleh reports to Joe, so there isn’t as much behind the back swiping at each other. 

Apparently you don't work in Corporate America  

[Wit]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Apparently you don't work in Corporate America  

Haha, not quite but enough to know you’re probably right. Hopefully it’s not happening too much.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Wit said:

Haha, not quite but enough to know you’re probably right. Hopefully it’s not happening too much.

"If you're part of a crew, nobody ever tells you that they're going to kill you, doesn't happen that way. There weren't any arguments or curses like in the movies. See, your murders come with smiles, they come as your friends, the people who've cared for you all of your life. And they always seem to come at a time that you're at your weakest and most in need of their help."

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, Ex-Rex said:

Bowles let the players walk all over him. Mental and physical errors were in abundance - as they are now - and there was little to no accountability. Mac just didn't have the chops for the GM job and Idzik was spectacularly bad at drafting. Rex Ryan had a good thing going until he let his ego take over and jettisoned players like Braylon Edwards, Jerricho Cotchery and several offensive linemen which precipitated the fall of Mark Sanchez. 

I'm just saying the dynamic of the arranged marriage between Bowles and Mac is interesting to me, and unlike the entire Rex era there weren't nearly as many leaks (at least, not until the end in 2019 when Mac was fighting for his job and got shivved by Gase.)

[FootballLove]

Rex with a real GM like JD would be pretty good too....probably similar to Saleh. At least JD wouldn't be scouting LBers then switch to a FB b/c Rex loved the kid. During the draft JD would just slide Rex into a corner seat and give him a plate of wings.