What did Mumbles know and when did he know it ?

[Peace Frog]

10 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

What Mumbles knew or didn’t know is irrelevant. If Brian Daboll’s signature was on a contract dated before Flores interview, he has a big case. If not, he has no case. It’s simple as that.


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But…feelings. 

[WestCoastMole]

8 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

What Mumbles knew or didn’t know is irrelevant. If Brian Daboll’s signature was on a contract dated before Flores interview, he has a big case. If not, he has no case. It’s simple as that.


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If there was a telephone conversation where it was established the Giants intent to offer the position to Dabol before Flores interviewed that is just as incriminating,bBe it through a tape or transcript of the call or the direct testimony of Mumbles in court makes little difference. But first Flores' attorneys have to find that.

[Peace Frog]

7 minutes ago, Jet2020 said:

Media is blowing this up like Kim Kardashian. “Sources” have always been part of the NFL and if you think these HCs don’t know about major decisions around the league, you’re being too naive. News breaks out long before it’s publicly announced. How do you think that is? People talk. HCs talk. GMs talk. Unless you’re rivals. Mumbles doesn’t care what Flores has on him. And Flores is a lil bitch. ****er didn’t have the guts to say anything while he was still employed cuz he wanted that paycheck. I guess he just wants one more larger payout, that’s all. 

Belli has a long standing relationship with the Maras. 

Wtf are people crying about. Old friends talk. There’s no collusion going on. 

He’s still a scumbag but a scumbag not in the wrong here. 

[Barry McCockinner]

Flores: Systemic racism is preventing black coaches in the NFL.

Also Flores: Hires a coaching staff ...

[WestCoastMole]

17 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Belli has a long standing relationship with the Maras. 

Wtf are people crying about. Old friends talk. There’s no collusion going on. 

He’s still a scumbag but a scumbag not in the wrong here. 

Indeed Mumbles does have a long standing relationship with the Maras. That is why many believe that Mumbles turning tale and running out on Leon Hess's Heirs the way he did happened.

What people are crying about is that Mumbles revealed the HC hiring process failed. The decision on who to hire was made before the process was complete. And this directly falls on the Giants. They obviously told Mumbles something under confidence he would not disclose it to anyone. Or at least it was implied confidence. Mumbles decided he was going to tattle and give Dabol the scoop. The whole thing backfired and revealed the hiring process was at the very least arbitrary and capricious if not racially discriminatory.

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, DetroitRed said:

This is really a nothing story.  The NFL created this mess and now they may pay the price. Let em burn for all i care. There  are laws in place against discrimination in hiring.  If someone has evidence of wrongdoing, they can go that route.  Other than that, we cant get into someone’s head. But, let  them pay a massive amount for sleeping with the wokesters and at the same time having a racist and sexist halftime show.  They deserve everything coming to them

Turning on the sports channel and the finger wagging at the regular joe sports fan over a guy worth 8 figures is truly amazing. Keep in mind the amount of regular joe sports fans who lost their jobs over Covid being told they’re bad because 8 figure Brian Flores didn’t get the job he wanted. Also the regular Joe sports fan also has to get lectured by his private school attorneys about why they’re bad people. Get lost.

[Matt39]

21 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

Belli has a long standing relationship with the Maras. 

Wtf are people crying about. Old friends talk. There’s no collusion going on. 

He’s still a scumbag but a scumbag not in the wrong here. 

You know who also had friends?

[Peace Frog]

9 minutes ago, WestCoastMole said:

Indeed Mumbles does have a long standing relationship with the Maras. That is why many believe that Mumbles turning tale and running out on Leon Hess's Heirs the way he did happened.

What people are crying about is that Mumbles revealed the HC hiring process failed. The decision on who to hire was made before the process was complete. And this directly falls on the Giants. They obviously told Mumbles something under confidence he would not disclose it to anyone. Or at least it was implied confidence. Mumbles decided he was going to tattle and give Dabol the scoop. The whole thing backfired and revealed the hiring process was at the very least arbitrary and capricious if not racially discriminatory.

Lol wrong. Nice try though. 

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

You know who also had friends?

Don Corleone? 

[Larz]

The interview process did not fail. I hate to break it to y’all but a lot of scummy things happen in high paying hires   
 

ever hear of a blind search?

Now that is scummy lol

letting a guy interview even after you have made a decision is courtesy, not criminal   You are also letting the guy have a swing for the fences   Must be a slow news day ?

Sheesh 

[WestCoastMole]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

The interview process did not fail. I hate to break it to y’all but a lot of scummy things happen in high paying hires   
 

ever hear of a blind search?

Now that is scummy lol

letting a guy interview even after you have made a decision is courtesy, not criminal   You are also letting the guy have a swing for the fences   Must be a slow news day ?

Sheesh 

What you just described is a direct violation of the Rooney Rule

BTW a Blind Search is the posting of an Opening soliciting candidates who do not know the company to which they are applying. It is executed with the intent so as not to notify competitors. Everyone in the NFL knows exactly which teams are trying to fill vacancies. In these days of Executive Recruiting Firms such postings are rare.

[BurnleyJet]

I just like it sully’s Bill Belichick name even more.

[Larz]

7 hours ago, WestCoastMole said:

What you just described is a direct violation of the Rooney Rule

BTW a Blind Search is the posting of an Opening soliciting candidates who do not know the company to which they are applying. It is executed with the intent so as not to notify competitors. Everyone in the NFL knows exactly which teams are trying to fill vacancies. In these days of Executive Recruiting Firms such postings are rare.

No it isn’t 

the Rooney tile had already been fulfilled. 
 

lol

a blind search is when a company is recruiting for a job that isn’t open yet, some poor bastard is still working away with no idea his bosses 2 hour lunch is with his/ her possible replacement.  I filled 2 of them. Awful stuff.  
 

We used to debate what position you would want your candidate to interview in a 4 candidate scenario. Almost nobody ever chose 1 or 2. It was always in the end a debate over 3 or 4. 
 

it’s very unusual for a search to end early unless you make a rookie mistake and put the weakest candidate on paper last and the best first. 
 

This is a very odd hill to die on. This thing happens literally every day in this country. 

[Larz]

lol

 

The New York Giants have responded to Brian Flores' lawsuit in which he is suing the league and other teams for racial discrimination. The lawsuit, citing text messages between Flores and Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, claims that the Giants had already made their decision to hire Brian Daboll as head coach prior to their meeting with Flores, who was fired after three years as the Dolphins coach. 

The Giants deny that a final decision had been made prior to their interview with Flores, who had two separate interviews with the organization. New York also addressed Belichick's text messages to Flores with regard to the Giants' then-vacant head coaching position. 

"There is additional concrete and objective evidence to substantiate we did not make our decision until the evening of [January] 28th," the statement read. "The allegation that the Giants' decision had been made prior to Friday evening, January 28, is false. And to base that allegation on a text exchange with Bill Belichick in which he ultimately states that he 'thinks' Brian Daboll would get the job is irresponsible. The text exchange occurred the day before Coach Daboll's in-person interview even took place. Giants' ownership would never hire a head coach based only on a 20-minute zoom interview, which is all that Mr. Daboll had at that point.

"In addition, Mr. Belichick does not speak for and has no affiliation with the Giants. Mr. Belichick's text exchange provides no insight into what actually transpired during our head coaching search."

 

 

 

[Snell41]

lol
 
The New York Giants have responded to Brian Flores' lawsuit in which he is suing the league and other teams for racial discrimination. The lawsuit, citing text messages between Flores and Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, claims that the Giants had already made their decision to hire Brian Daboll as head coach prior to their meeting with Flores, who was fired after three years as the Dolphins coach. 
The Giants deny that a final decision had been made prior to their interview with Flores, who had two separate interviews with the organization. New York also addressed Belichick's text messages to Flores with regard to the Giants' then-vacant head coaching position. 
"There is additional concrete and objective evidence to substantiate we did not make our decision until the evening of [January] 28th," the statement read. "The allegation that the Giants' decision had been made prior to Friday evening, January 28, is false. And to base that allegation on a text exchange with Bill Belichick in which he ultimately states that he 'thinks' Brian Daboll would get the job is irresponsible. The text exchange occurred the day before Coach Daboll's in-person interview even took place. Giants' ownership would never hire a head coach based only on a 20-minute zoom interview, which is all that Mr. Daboll had at that point.
"In addition, Mr. Belichick does not speak for and has no affiliation with the Giants. Mr. Belichick's text exchange provides no insight into what actually transpired during our head coaching search."
 
 
 

I mean, is this really all Flores and his legal team has? A text from Bill the day before Daboll even had his in person interview. Really??


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[Larz]

Jan. 11 (Tue) – Giants fire Joe Judge as head coach
Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills assistant GM Joe Schoen hired as GM
Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills OC Brian Daboll interviews with Schoen and Giants’ co-owners via teleconference
Jan. 22 (Sat) – Bills DC Leslie Frazier interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Bengals DC Lou Anarumo interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Daboll and Frazier’s Buffalo Bills eliminated from playoffs
Jan. 24 (Mon) – Cowboys DC Dan Quinn interviews in-person. Giants’ first in-person interview for the job.

*Brian Flores receives text messages from Bill Belichickcongratulating him on becoming next Giants coach even though Flores has not had his interview yet. Belichick’s text messages were intended for Daboll.*

Jan. 25 (Tue) – Brian Daboll receives second interview. Interview occurs in-person
Jan. 26 (Wed) – Giants DC Patrick Graham interviews. Does not satisfy Rooney Rule since in-house candidate
Jan. 26 (Wed) – Ex-Dolphins HC Brian Flores has dinner with Schoen
Jan. 27 (Thu) – Brian Flores interviews (satisfies Rooney Rule because it is in-person with someone outside organization)
Jan. 27 (Thu) – Dan Quinn announces he is remaining as Cowboys DC
Jan. 28 (Fri) – Leslie Frazier gets second interview, this time in-person, also satisfying Rooney Rule
Jan. 28 (Fri) – Daboll hired as head coach

[Larz]

1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

 

I mean, is this really all Flores and his legal team has? A text from Bill the day before Daboll even had his in person interview. Really??


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When he gets the final bill 4 month’s from now after getting his case thrown out he’ll be out a huge chunk of money unless it’s contingent on winning and getting a cash remedy 

[section314]

16 minutes ago, Larz said:

lol

 

The New York Giants have responded to Brian Flores' lawsuit in which he is suing the league and other teams for racial discrimination. The lawsuit, citing text messages between Flores and Patriots head coach Bill Belichick, claims that the Giants had already made their decision to hire Brian Daboll as head coach prior to their meeting with Flores, who was fired after three years as the Dolphins coach. 

The Giants deny that a final decision had been made prior to their interview with Flores, who had two separate interviews with the organization. New York also addressed Belichick's text messages to Flores with regard to the Giants' then-vacant head coaching position. 

"There is additional concrete and objective evidence to substantiate we did not make our decision until the evening of [January] 28th," the statement read. "The allegation that the Giants' decision had been made prior to Friday evening, January 28, is false. And to base that allegation on a text exchange with Bill Belichick in which he ultimately states that he 'thinks' Brian Daboll would get the job is irresponsible. The text exchange occurred the day before Coach Daboll's in-person interview even took place. Giants' ownership would never hire a head coach based only on a 20-minute zoom interview, which is all that Mr. Daboll had at that point.

"In addition, Mr. Belichick does not speak for and has no affiliation with the Giants. Mr. Belichick's text exchange provides no insight into what actually transpired during our head coaching search."

 

 

 

Thanks for posting. Blows this whole absurd thing right out of the water.

[Jet Nut]

16 hours ago, WestCoastMole said:

Why would a Head Coach of another team, one that could face that team in the future on the football field, give a positive recommendation to said person if they thought he was competent and capable ?

It's a competitive world, don't over think it Robin

Because that’s what they do.  
You’re over thinking it.  

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, WestCoastMole said:

Indeed Mumbles does have a long standing relationship with the Maras. That is why many believe that Mumbles turning tale and running out on Leon Hess's Heirs the way he did happened.

What people are crying about is that Mumbles revealed the HC hiring process failed. The decision on who to hire was made before the process was complete. And this directly falls on the Giants. They obviously told Mumbles something under confidence he would not disclose it to anyone. Or at least it was implied confidence. Mumbles decided he was going to tattle and give Dabol the scoop. The whole thing backfired and revealed the hiring process was at the very least arbitrary and capricious if not racially discriminatory.

Belichick was pissed at the Giants for not even giving him an interview when the open HC position.  This is completely wrong to think  Bill turned the Jets down because of the Giants.  Especially after working for the Jets as DC and collecting pay and bonuses.  Where does this even come from?

[Warfish]

12 hours ago, Larz said:

Letting a guy interview even after you have made a decision is courtesy, not criminal   You are also letting the guy have a swing for the fences

This tends to be my view.

[rangerous]

21 hours ago, WestCoastMole said:

This matter has nothing to do with the interview. What it has to do with is the propriety of Mumbles having ANY ROLE in these proceedings. He is the Head Coach and ostensible GM of an entirely different franchise.

why wouldn't he have a role?  flores was one of his assitant coaches before going to the doltfins.  you don't think the giants asked the bellichicken about flores?  of course they did and so?  don't companies call former co-workers when they hire people?  yes they do.  this may butress flores argument about the nfl being an old boy network but not by much.  the giaints probably wanted daboll from the start.  in a sense it's unfair to flores because he seemed to be a decent coach and should get another shot.  deserves a shot?  i think i deserve a ferrari.

[freestater]

Hold it, hold it, hold it. If we're talking about railroading Belichick, I'm at least willing to listen. 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, Larz said:

Jan. 11 (Tue) – Giants fire Joe Judge as head coach
Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills assistant GM Joe Schoen hired as GM
Jan. 21 (Fri) – Bills OC Brian Daboll interviews with Schoen and Giants’ co-owners via teleconference
Jan. 22 (Sat) – Bills DC Leslie Frazier interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Bengals DC Lou Anarumo interviews via teleconference
Jan. 23 (Sun) – Daboll and Frazier’s Buffalo Bills eliminated from playoffs
Jan. 24 (Mon) – Cowboys DC Dan Quinn interviews in-person. Giants’ first in-person interview for the job.

*Brian Flores receives text messages from Bill Belichickcongratulating him on becoming next Giants coach even though Flores has not had his interview yet. Belichick’s text messages were intended for Daboll.*

Jan. 25 (Tue) – Brian Daboll receives second interview. Interview occurs in-person
Jan. 26 (Wed) – Giants DC Patrick Graham interviews. Does not satisfy Rooney Rule since in-house candidate
Jan. 26 (Wed) – Ex-Dolphins HC Brian Flores has dinner with Schoen
Jan. 27 (Thu) – Brian Flores interviews (satisfies Rooney Rule because it is in-person with someone outside organization)
Jan. 27 (Thu) – Dan Quinn announces he is remaining as Cowboys DC
Jan. 28 (Fri) – Leslie Frazier gets second interview, this time in-person, also satisfying Rooney Rule
Jan. 28 (Fri) – Daboll hired as head coach

BB texted "Sounds like you have landed — congrats!! "

I realize there's a coaching fraternity and all but it seems strange to text that to an OC of a divisional rival (who was not just employed, but thriving!)

Meanwhile, BB had a previous working relationship with Flores and Flores was unemployed.  So saying "sounds like you have landed" makes a lot more sense for BB to text to Flores. 

Otoh, I guess it could be argued that BB meant "congrats on your first HC job" to Daboll but that still feels less likely to me.  

 

EDIT:

I just re-read the text convo.  BB's line that "I hear from Buffalo & NYG that you are their guy" changes the story completely.  There's no reason (that I can think of) that he would hear from Buffalo that Flores is the NYG's guy.  Unless maybe if he was thinking it came down to Flores and Daboll and Buffalo said it's not likely to be Daboll.  But that seems like a stretch.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2022/2/1/22913143/brian-flores-bill-belichick-texts-nfl-discrimination-lawsuit

 

[WestCoastMole]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Belichick was pissed at the Giants for not even giving him an interview when the open HC position.  This is completely wrong to think  Bill turned the Jets down because of the Giants.  Especially after working for the Jets as DC and collecting pay and bonuses.  Where does this even come from?

If Mumbles turned the Jets because the Giants jilted him then why did he turned the Jets period ? Your thought process is bizarre. The Jets are not the Giants. The fact is Mumbles turned down the Jets and went to New England, the Jets arch rival. If he he despises the Giants for spurning him that would serve as an incentive to stay with the Jets so he could embarrass the Giants. Mumbles only went to the Jets because he was part of the Parcells entourage. Parcells told Leon Hess he would come on board as the Jets Head Coach to turn the team around and made it clear to Hess he was retiring went the job is complete. On his Death Bed Hess secured a deal with Mumbles to take over as head coach when Parcells left and even paid Mumbles to close the deal, or so he thought. Hess died, Parcells "retired", and Mumbles resigned tennis shoeing it out of town before ever setting foot in the Jets Practice facility as a Head Coach.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, WestCoastMole said:

If Mumbles turned the Jets because the Giants jilted him then why did he turned the Jets period ? Your thought process is bizarre. The Jets are not the Giants. The fact is Mumbles turned down the Jets and went to New England, the Jets arch rival. If he he despises the Giants for spurning him that would serve as an incentive to stay with the Jets so he could embarrass the Giants. Mumbles only went to the Jets because he was part of the Parcells entourage. Parcells told Leon Hess he would come on board as the Jets Head Coach to turn the team around and made it clear to Hess he was retiring went the job is complete. On his Death Bed Hess secured a deal with Mumbles to take over as head coach when Parcells left and even paid Mumbles to close the deal, or so he thought. Hess died, Parcells "retired", and Mumbles resigned tennis shoeing it out of town before ever setting foot in the Jets Practice facility as a Head Coach.

My thought process is bizarre?  Your reading comprehension is bizarre.  I didnt say that he turned the Jets down because the Giants turned him down.  I said the idea that he turned the Jets down because of some loyalty to the Giants was wrong.  I brought up he wasnt deemed a coaching prospect by the Maras and the fact that he was ok enough to take Hess's money as proof.  Maybe you should re read the post, you obviously missed a lot.  And you dont know your history, dreaming stuff up like he went to NE and they were our arch rival.  Were you alive, they sure as shlt weren't back then.  Or that BB only came along as part of Parcells entourage.  He came because no one was hiring him off of his debacle in Cleveland and because he was promised the Jets HC gig when BP retired in 3 years.  No deal was made on Hess's death bed, where the hell did you dream this nonsense up.  

[WestCoastMole]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

BB texted "Sounds like you have landed — congrats!! "

I realize there's a coaching fraternity and all but it seems strange to text that to an OC of a divisional rival (who was not just employed, but thriving!)

Meanwhile, BB had a previous working relationship with Flores and Flores was unemployed.  So saying "sounds like you have landed" makes a lot more sense for BB to text to Flores. 

Otoh, I guess it could be argued that BB meant "congrats on your first HC job" to Daboll but that still feels less likely to me.

 

Did you read the initial post ?

Mumbles accidentally texted Flores with the message : "Congrats on landing the Giants Head Coaching gig."

Flores responded to Mumbles with a text of his own. "What do you mean congrats on the Giants HC gig ? I haven't interviewed for it."

Mumbles responding to Flores in a follow up text "I ****ed up."

That's how it went down.

The second message leaves no doubt who the first message was intended for. There is no 'On the one hand .... On the other hand"

 

 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

21 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Turning on the sports channel and the finger wagging at the regular joe sports fan over a guy worth 8 figures is truly amazing. Keep in mind the amount of regular joe sports fans who lost their jobs over Covid being told they’re bad because 8 figure Brian Flores didn’t get the job he wanted. Also the regular Joe sports fan also has to get lectured by his private school attorneys about why they’re bad people. Get lost.

I have not heard a single person in the media blame any fans for this.  I

[Matt39]

23 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

I have not heard a single person in the media blame any fans for this.  I

Who are they talking to then

[TuscanyTile2]

22 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Flores: Systemic racism is preventing black coaches in the NFL.

Also Flores: Hires a coaching staff ...

 

Flores hired the creator of Beavis and Butthead as his TE coach?!?!

"Uhhh, you said 'tight end'"

 

[Snell41]

You guys look way too deep. Buf knew they were losing Daboll, and they knew the Giants were most likely his first choice and the Giants would be wise to hire him since they seem to still be in on Jones. Bill could have easily had the same convo from both sides and it still didn’t mean the NYG finalized a decision before Flores. I hate racists and I hate the Giants, but the Giants did nothing wrong.


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[Maxman]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:04 PM, LionelRichie said:

Not to go to conspiracy theory but what if BB ‘accidentally’ sent the message because he was pissed how Flores was being treated by both Ross and Mara?  
The first time I saw the texts that was my first guess.   A man as anal as BB wouldn’t send an errant text (although he did send the fedex’s of cash).  

There is probably something to Belly recommending Daboll to get him out of the division. Since Flores was already out of the division.

[Maxman]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:10 PM, Larz said:

The interview process did not fail. I hate to break it to y’all but a lot of scummy things happen in high paying hires   
 

ever hear of a blind search?

Now that is scummy lol

letting a guy interview even after you have made a decision is courtesy, not criminal   You are also letting the guy have a swing for the fences   Must be a slow news day ?

Sheesh 

Yes in the corporate world this is true. But the Rooney rule prohibits this exact thing from happening and that is the issue here.

[Jetscode1]

On 2/4/2022 at 7:44 PM, WestCoastMole said:

Indeed Mumbles does have a long standing relationship with the Maras. That is why many believe that Mumbles turning tale and running out on Leon Hess's Heirs the way he did happened.

What people are crying about is that Mumbles revealed the HC hiring process failed. The decision on who to hire was made before the process was complete. And this directly falls on the Giants. They obviously told Mumbles something under confidence he would not disclose it to anyone. Or at least it was implied confidence. Mumbles decided he was going to tattle and give Dabol the scoop. The whole thing backfired and revealed the hiring process was at the very least arbitrary and capricious if not racially discriminatory.

Do you work for a media outlet?  

[Jetscode1]

5 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Yes in the corporate world this is true. But the Rooney rule prohibits this exact thing from happening and that is the issue here.

No crime no foul.  The individual clubs are separate entities.  How they follow/interpret arcane rules from the commish who works for the said entities is dubious at best.  The optics are awful but zero crime.