Updates from the Kayvon visit

[derp]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I would not mind the Walker pick at all because I think the Jets would just hand him JFM’s role and he’d probably be pretty good at that. I don’t feel like Walker would have to get twelve sacks per year to end up being considered a successful pick, in other words, but if he does, everyone looks like geniuses. 

Yeah, I think Walker’s a guy who makes sense as a bet on traits that translate to pass rush (strength, hand usage, long arms) and a high floor if he wasn’t a 4.51 guy and you could get him mid-late first. The athleticism maybe gives him upside to outperform, I’m glad my job isn’t on the line when it comes to him.

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

when a dude has that kind of workout it's kind of hard to hate the pick 

He's got all-pro type of profile he just needs to put it together a little more

still, he really beat the sh*t out of Evan Neal in the Natty 

What’d be interesting about it is that Saleh was with the Niners when they took this same type of shot with Solomon Thomas, who is coincidentally on the Jets as of right now

[slimjasi]

Just now, T0mShane said:

What’d be interesting about it is that Saleh was with the Niners when they took this same type of shot with Solomon Thomas, who is coincidentally on the Jets as of right now

and who coincidentally was also severely overdrafted. 

LOL

 

[T0mShane]

Just now, derp said:

Yeah, I think Walker’s a guy who makes sense as a bet on traits that translate to pass rush (strength, hand usage, long arms) and a high floor if he wasn’t a 4.51 guy and you could get him mid-late first. The athleticism maybe gives him upside to outperform, I’m glad my job isn’t on the line when it comes to him.

If you were sitting there at four and you had Walker, Thibodeaux, Ekonwu, and all of the receivers on the board, who do you take? 

[T0mShane]

Just now, slimjasi said:

and who coincidentally was also severely overdrafted. 

LOL

 

Exactly, which makes it interesting. 

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

JFM is pretty good at it. With Walker it's more like, well, he's gotta be better there than he would be at LEO. Why is Becton a reason not to take a tackle if JFM isn't a reason not to take a 5tech?

Personally, I would trade Becton and take another tackle. But as to Walker v JFM, it’d just be easier to find a way to play both of them at the same time. 

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you were sitting there at four and you had Walker, Thibodeaux, Ekonwu, and all of the receivers on the board, who do you take? 

I think the jets take thibs, with the thinking he’s the best pure pass rusher there.  That fills a huge need and allows them flexibility at 10 to take a wr or trade back.  I don’t think they’d take walker over ekongwu.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Personally, I would trade Becton and take another tackle. But as to Walker v JFM, it’d just be easier to find a way to play both of them at the same time. 

If douglas can flip becton for a 1st round pick in 2023 and take ekongwu that’s a win.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Personally, I would trade Becton and take another tackle. But as to Walker v JFM, it’d just be easier to find a way to play both of them at the same time. 

Straight line speed and nothing special on agility or jumps would be an interesting conversation if he had production. 4.5 flat with 35" arms is fully bonkers but there are plenty of guys who have more projectible edge traits in every draft.

[derp]

39 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you were sitting there at four and you had Walker, Thibodeaux, Ekonwu, and all of the receivers on the board, who do you take? 

No one I feel good about, haha. I’d trade down if possible, work out Walker seriously to see if there’s some bend that he didn’t show at the college level, and get a feel for what makes Thibodeaux tick. None of it’s easy. That’s why I said 4+10 for 2+32 if Hutchinson is there and it’s possible. Different tier to me.

It wouldn't be Ekwonu or a WR. Honesty if I wanted a day one tackle I’m not taking Ekwonu.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

5 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Straight line speed and nothing special on agility or jumps would be an interesting conversation if he had production. 4.5 flat with 35" arms is fully bonkers but there are plenty of guys who have more projectible edge traits in every draft.

Except this one, I should have said. I did the waldo numbers for about eight guys, none hit 1.05 on the jump number, and nobody had the agility scores except Hutchinson. So he'd have been the clear #1 with no #2, just on the combine and without any of the word vomit.

[Scoop24]

44 minutes ago, bitonti said:

when a dude has that kind of workout it's kind of hard to hate the pick 

He's got all-pro type of profile he just needs to put it together a little more

still, he really beat the sh*t out of Evan Neal in the Natty 

Show me one rep where he beat Neal on the edge  without a stunt or twist? Cause i have yet to see it on any of his sacks..

and i did not see Even Neal get his ass kick at all in this video

 

[T0mShane]

13 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

without any of the word vomit.

Sir, I shall not go into any battle unarmed. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Sir, I shall not go into any battle unarmed. 

The best information on the draft, in order, is stuff you knew two years in advance, stuff you didn't know until two hours in advance, and the combine.

[ZachEY]

Fant was the team MVP last year.  He may not be a long term solution, but replacing him should not be the priority right now.

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

sure. he came in for a visit too - there are like 10 other teams with the same plan by the way

Denver for example are on the Tyler Smith in rd2-3 bandwagon 

We have the draft capital to beat most teams for most players. We'll see if Douglas knows how to throw his darts. 

[Dcat]

4 hours ago, mrcoops said:

Very intrigued by him. A bit like Penning, but can likely be had a round or more later.

He'll be picked in 2d round.  

[Sperm Edwards]

On 4/19/2022 at 2:23 PM, bitonti said:

It's not the pass protection that creates the upgrade it's the run blocking 

This SF/TEN system has always been built with the idea of running outside zone to set up play action deep. 

Fant is a marginal run blocker, and he's better at left tackle than at right. He's a finesse player, like a Charles Leno or a poor man's Duane Brown. Basically all Fant offers is pass blocking. 

Put together a line with Becton/Icky bookends, Laken/AVT guards and McGovern (or possibly rd2 Linderbaum at C), then yes I think the PPG goes up in a measurable way. The SF line has maulers like Trent Williams and Mike McGlinchey. Alex Mack at C. The Titans line has maulers like Taylor Lewan and Saffold (who is now on BUF)

This line isn't nasty enough for JD's taste (which also explains the Trevor penning rumors) 

end of the day JD isn't going to extend Fant so he has to replace him either before this draft or the next one 

 

I’m aware of it, but you’re giving an awful lot of credit to a rookie already being his equal - if not an outright upgrade - in pass blocking, too.

Never mind the idea of a rookie LT and a rookie C being immediate assets. The last time the team did that it took until year 3 before both were at a high level, and they were both better prospects. 

Not to mention you’re just vastly overstating the impact since these guys are not primarily man blocking, too.

SF has playmakers the Jets don’t have, and a defense the Jets don’t have. You’re disingenuously framing it as though all other things are equal except the OL. Plus Alex Mack is hardly an elite run blocker at this stage of his career; Tomlinson is a wash in comparison since he’s now on the Jets; and McGlinchy is no mauler at all, probably isn’t even getting extended, and missed half the season and they still almost went to the SB with his backup. So I’m not prepared to accept your assessment of SF’s OL. The only decidedly better OLman they have is Williams who’s still a beast in his mid-30s. 

Then of all people you cite Lewan as a mauler? In what universe? Plus Saffold would be a downgrade from either of the Jets’ 2022 guards so who cares what you think he is.

The idea that swapping Fant for Icky, or whatever his name is, by itself has upwards of a 3-game increased win impact is ridiculous fantasy on its face, without any merit. I’m nobody’s expert on grading college talent, but my understanding is he’s not Joe Thomas II as a prospect.

So you’re wrong about everything again.  

[Jet Nut]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:20 AM, GangGreen Machine said:

I’ve been convinced they will let Fant walk next year. Not enough shown in his run game.

I’d love Edge and O line, in no particular order, at 4 & 10. 

So the thinking is the W&L record will be determined by who we take at one of our picks when it’s not used on a qb?

22 players on O & D and it will come down to an OL over an EDGE?  

‘Not too confusing 

[CTJetsFan]

21 hours ago, ZachEY said:

Fant was the team MVP last year.  He may not be a long term solution, but replacing him should not be the priority right now.

Agree, but having a RT option for this year should Becton not be ready is a must. Also gives us a succession plan for 2023 should Fant leave via FA.

[bitonti]

39 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m aware of it, but you’re giving an awful lot of credit to a rookie already being his equal - if not an outright upgrade - in pass blocking, too.

So you’re wrong about everything again.  

Icky needs to improve his pass pro it's true but his run blocking is instant impact 

Do you really believe George Fant is worth 15 mil per? They are going to draft his replacement 

We're going to have to agree to disagree, again

[Sperm Edwards]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

Icky needs to improve his pass pro it's true but his run blocking is instant impact 

Do you really believe George Fant is worth 15 mil per? They are going to draft his replacement 

We're going to have to agree to disagree, again

If he’s as good as expected, some eventual improvement in run blocking plus a downgrade in pass blocking doesn’t yield 3 additional team wins because of this one swap alone.

[bitonti]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If he’s as good as expected, some eventual improvement in run blocking plus a downgrade in pass blocking doesn’t yield 3 additional team wins because of this one swap alone.

we agree it's more than one move. It would be like icky and London and linderbaum at 35 

Direct question what is the price of the Fant extension? Fant and McGovern are like 5 and 6 on the roster in terms of cap hit. They are not good enough for this distinction 

Fix the defense later, or not. The offense is still dire and JD knows this.

 

[Dwight Englewood]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:32 PM, CTJetsFan said:

Agree, but having a RT option for this year should Becton not be ready is a must. Also gives us a succession plan for 2023 should Fant leave via FA.

Just franchise tag Fant after next season.  He'll b tch and complain but who cares.  If he leaves, the team signing him has to give us picks

[Dwight Englewood]

On 4/19/2022 at 5:40 PM, T0mShane said:

What’d be interesting about it is that Saleh was with the Niners when they took this same type of shot with Solomon Thomas, who is coincidentally on the Jets as of right now

And the Niners showed last season they clearly don't miss Saleh

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Dwight Englewood said:

And the Niners showed last season they clearly don't miss Saleh

That we hired another self-promoting defensive coordinator from a run-first team is a fact that hasn’t been lost on me or my team of therapists.

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That we hired another self-promoting defensive coordinator from a run-first team is a fact that hasn’t been lost on me or my team of therapists.

That's not a team of therapists. It's called Group. We've been through this 

[Dwight Englewood]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That we hired another self-promoting defensive coordinator from a run-first team is a fact that hasn’t been lost on me or my team of therapists.

Rex is Belichick compared to Saleh

[Tranquilo]

 

[Dwight Englewood]

Just now, Tranquilo said:

 

If he's there at 4 great.  I'm getting the vibe the Lions are taking him at 2 which is also fine because probably either Walker or Hutch fall to 4

[Matt39]

KAYVON THIBODEAUX, Oregon (6-4, 256, 4.63, 1): Played both up and down on the outside in a 3-4 defense. “He’s the best pure pass rusher if he plays hard all the time and acts like he likes football,” said one scout. “Does he like playing in the NFL, or like the NFL lifestyle and what that entails? If you put Hutchinson’s heart in Thibodeaux’s body then you’d have Myles Garrett.” 

Third-year junior started 21 of 32 games. Arms were 33 1/8. “Little undersized, which you see when he gets into tight quarters,” a second scout said. “He gets bounced around some. But he’s got tremendous get-off. His acceleration is really impressive. He’ll coast a little. He’s easily frustrated. If somebody is in his face and holds him off he tends to throttle down and not fight through it like more determined athletes would do. But when he’s on the move and when he’s hot, he’s hot. To get the complete results you want from him you’re going to have to coach the coasting part out of him.” Finished with 123 tackles (35 ½ for loss), 19 sacks, three forced fumbles and seven passes defensed. Wonderlic of 18. “I know he’s got the hype but he’s got some tightness to him,” said a third scout. “When Whitney Mercilus came out, he was loose. They’re kind of in the same mold. Whitney was a better athlete. There’s a stiffness to Kayvon. I don’t know if he can succeed if he can’t get the edge or win right away. You see him go down the middle of people sometimes. I think tackles will sit on him and just absorb him.” Described by a fourth scout who interviewed him as “very opinionated, not afraid to speak his mind on what he’s seen in life and his perception of himself and the world.” Another scout with interview experience said: “Like the kid. Smart as sh*t. He presents himself like that (selfish money guy) but he does like football.” From South Central LA. “You’re talking to the biggest non-fan in the world,” a sixth scout said. “First of all, his lower body from the knee down looks like a damn safety. He goes against sh*tty tackles; the Pac-12 had no tackles this year. He’s a marketing guy who’s in Phil Knight’s back pocket. He doesn’t play that good against the run. I think he could bust.”