Updates from the Kayvon visit

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The Jets couldnt be less in on Becton. 

And you know this how exactly?  

Curious, what idea could anyone have that they do or dont.  

[genot]

I have no idea this infatuation with KT. He had 3 sacks as a sophomore Seven sacks as a junior, playing for Oregon. If the answer is, "well he was hurt those two seasons,  that's why". Well, that is a red flag, isn't it. Enough of one, not to risk drafting him that high.

[Tranquilo]

12 minutes ago, genot said:

I have no idea this infatuation with KT. He had 3 sacks as a sophomore Seven sacks as a junior, playing for Oregon. If the answer is, "well he was hurt those two seasons,  that's why". Well, that is a red flag, isn't it. Enough of one, not to risk drafting him that high.

Hutchinson had 3.5 sacks in 3 seasons before the last season. Walker is another one with shaky sack numbers. This is just the way it is. All about projecting and developing. 

[genot]

6 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Hutchinson had 3.5 sacks in 3 seasons before the last season. Walker is another one with shaky sack numbers. This is just the way it is. All about projecting and developing. 

Good points, I grant you. Michigan and Georgia though are a far cry from Oregon. When KT signed to play at Oregon, the athletic department through a party. At Michigan and Georgia,  he's just another quality recruit.

[hmhertz]

The most important ability for an edge in football

people estimation is for a players ability to bend.

film studies & test results. Simms, Jeremiah, Douzable

and Cossell say Thibo & the Greek can't Walker can.

The best edge bender  in this draft was David Ojabo,

a pity he is hurt

[Jimmy 2 Times]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

Fant was an above-average pass protector. He was below average in run blocking. He graded out like the 30th best tackle overall. This system prioritizes run blocking, by the way 

As for KT, let's walk this dog. The jets draft him. He gets 10 sacks. 

How many more wins is that? 

They need edge but it's not going to move the needle when the offense still sucks 

 

The problem with passing on edge is you usually need to be picking high to get one.   

Get the edge now so you have the stopper when your offense can actually get a lead. 

[UnknownJetFan]

7 hours ago, Warfish said:

May not matter, if the first three picks of this draft will be Hutch, Thib and Sauce.

So hope we have someone else in mind other than these three, just to be safe.

With 2 Franchise type LTs there, it would be hard to believe 3 crap teams pass on them since without a LT where is your QB or O going to go but on IR.

[WhartonJet]

 

57 minutes ago, hmhertz said:

The best edge bender  in this draft was David Ojabo,

 

I really wouldn't mind a pass rusher at 4 or 10, then double dipping with Ojabo in Round 2.  Before the injury, Ojabo was my favorite EDGE in the class

[T0mShane]

Thibodeaux is a freak athlete with great stats and is also a high-character guy but will somehow slide to 4.

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Thibodeaux is a freak athlete with great stats and is also a high-character guy but will somehow slide to 4.

Patrick Mahomes is a great athlete and had great stats in college and is also a high character guy but he somehow slid to 10th

*add 1000 more examples here*

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Thibodeaux is a freak athlete with great stats and is also a high-character guy but will somehow slide to 4.

Not hard to figure how that scenario could play out.  

Unless of course...

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Patrick Mahomes is a great athlete and had great stats in college and is also a high character guy but he somehow slid to 10th

*add 1000 more examples here*

Mahomes didn’t fall because he was a douche, he fell because he put up his numbers in the air raid offense*
 

*so did Zach Wilson

[65 Toss Power Trap]

8 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Nonsense.  They want to move Becton and draft Ickey.  

No surprise if they do this. Then get the best edge at 10.

[65 Toss Power Trap]

7 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

Who’s the guy if Ickey gets picked?

Sauce or Thibs or Travon Walker

If they are dead set on an O Lineman, then Evan Neal

[65 Toss Power Trap]

6 hours ago, slimjasi said:

To be fair, it's not just KT's production in isolation that matters. 

If KT is legit edge presence right away and Lawson comes back strong (two huge IFs), you suddenly have a much, much better pass rush. JFM gest to play inside, QW faces fewer double teams, Huff can be the 3rd rotational edge piece that he is meant to be. 

Lawson is a huge key for this team this year. 

This. The teams that are really good at edge are those rated high in "starting edge duos."  

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

1 hour ago, hmhertz said:

The most important ability for an edge in football

people estimation is for a players ability to bend.

film studies & test results. Simms, Jeremiah, Douzable

and Cossell say Thibo & the Greek can't Walker can.

The best edge bender  in this draft was David Ojabo,

a pity he is hurt

Bend the edge is tween draft twitter for let your feelings decide.

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Mahomes didn’t fall because he was a douche, he fell because he put up his numbers in the air raid offense*
 

*so did Zach Wilson

My point was intended to be more general. 

These guys fall for all sorts of reasons, good and bad. 

KT was a consensus top 2 pick until he gave a few awkward interviews. 

Meanwhile, Hutchinson wasn't widely considered to be the top pick until he had 3 sacks and 15 QB pressures in a single game against OSU. 

The idea that it's obvious who should rise and fall is in this draft is silly. 

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

 

The problem with passing on edge is you usually need to be picking high to get one.   

Get the edge now so you have the stopper when your offense can actually get a lead. 

I hear this all the time, but I don't think it's really true.  I think there were 16 guys with double digit sacks in 2021.  The Bosas, and Myles Garrett were taken at the top of the draft.   TJ Watt was 30th overall, Quinn went #14, but he was a FA on like his 4th team, Trey Hendrickson was a 3rd, Micah Parsons 12th overall, Cam Jordan #24, Aaron Donald #13, Matt Judon a 5th, Landry and Markus Golden were 2nds, Haason Reddick was #13, Chandler Jones went #21, but he has been available more than once, Cam Heyward #31, Shaq Barrett an UDFA on his 2nd team, and Ngakoue a 3rd rounder headed to his 5th team.   

It helps to have a high pick, but you can find these guys elsewhere and they are as easy to trade for as anyone else.   Plenty of those guys changed teams fairly recently.

 

[THE BARON]

9 minutes ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

No surprise if they do this. Then get the best edge at 10.

How about if London is still there at 10 ??? Still take the best edge ???  

This is really a fascinating draft.  Since there are many solid players and no super star prospects, every single team including those that draft 1 to 5 can see options.  There is not much difference between the top 10 on the big board and 11 to 20.  Or from 21 down on to 50.

I do think that the first and second rounds of this draft are going to produce a lot of nice workhorse core players that will have long careers. 

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

My point was intended to be more general. 

These guys fall for all sorts of reasons, good and bad. 

KT was a consensus top 2 pick until he gave a few awkward interviews. 

Meanwhile, Hutchinson wasn't widely considered to be the top pick until he had 3 sacks and 15 QB pressures in a single game against OSU. 

The idea that it's obvious who should rise and fall is in this draft is silly. 

Agreed, but Thibodeaux is allegedly falling specifically because of his attitude. If he was a yessir/nosir guy, he’d be the lock #1 pick. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, genot said:

Good points, I grant you. Michigan and Georgia though are a far cry from Oregon. When KT signed to play at Oregon, the athletic department through a party. At Michigan and Georgia,  he's just another quality recruit.

He was the nations #1 HS recruit.  He was no ones just another recruit

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed, but Thibodeaux is allegedly falling specifically because of his attitude. If he was a yessir/nosir guy, he’d be the lock #1 pick. 

So not liking some of his answers in a presser is reason enough for a player to go from the lock top pick in the draft to a free fall?  

[Hal N of Provo]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Mahomes didn’t fall because he was a douche, he fell because he put up his numbers in the air raid offense*
 

*so did Zach Wilson

 

BYU isn’t an Air raid system lol.   Probably one of the best colleges a player could come from for this current Jets system.  
 

[Saul Goodman]

I don’t see how Douglas can use a 4th overall pick on Thibodeaux after the Becton and Mims train wrecks. Are we collecting players with impressive physical attributes or building a team? 

[slimjasi]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed, but Thibodeaux is allegedly falling specifically because of his attitude. If he was a yessir/nosir guy, he’d be the lock #1 pick. 

I think this team could use a little attitude, honestly. 

Douglas has tried the whole "we only draft choir boy team captains" thing already. The results are . . . mixed. 

The last time this team was any good, the coach was an obnoxious braggart and the QB was banging 18 year olds. Unless the argument is that he's not going to try hard, I don't really care that much about his personality. 

[derp]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed, but Thibodeaux is allegedly falling specifically because of his attitude. If he was a yessir/nosir guy, he’d be the lock #1 pick. 

I think he's also stuck in between things, to an extent. You want production it's Hutchinson, athleticism it's Walker. The good but not great production plus good but not great testing numbers plus prospect fatigue plus a polarizing personality make for a guy with a wide range.

I have this weird feeling Hutchinson somehow becomes a Jet but I'm probably just in draft fatigue mode.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

So not liking some of his answers in a presser is reason enough for a player to go from the lock top pick in the draft to a free fall?  

NUT THE POINT IS THAT IF HE IS SITTING THERE AT FOUR IT IS BECAUSE HE IS PROBABLY A DOUCHE

[Matt39]

11 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I think this team could use a little attitude, honestly. 

Douglas has tried the whole "we only draft choir boy team captains" thing already. The results are . . . mixed. 

The last time this team was any good, the coach was an obnoxious braggart and the QB was banging 18 year olds. Unless the argument is that he's not going to try hard, I don't really care that much about his personality. 

Mangini built those teams tho

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

NUT THE POINT IS THAT IF HE IS SITTING THERE AT FOUR IT IS BECAUSE HE IS PROBABLY A DOUCHE

I don't think it's that cut and dried.

There are about 6-7 names that get tossed around as possibilities with the top-3.

Hutch is almost a certainty.

Ekwonu and Neal are often mentioned.

Gardner is rarely mentioned.

Walker and Thibs are both mentioned.

Finally, Willis is occasionally mentioned.

I'm ignoring Hamilton.

So a plausible scenario is Hutch, Walker, Ekwonu.  That doesn't make Thibs a douche.  It just makes him a Jet.  Some might say that's the same thing but that's out of the scope of this post.

 

[derp]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

NUT THE POINT IS THAT IF HE IS SITTING THERE AT FOUR IT IS BECAUSE HE IS PROBABLY A DOUCHE

I guess - and I realize I just quoted you - but an interesting comparison is Thibodeaux who was projected #1, had a disappointing junior year after a great freshman year and a mediocre sophomore year, and probably isn't going #1 any more to former popular JetNation mock draft #4 overall pick George Karlaftis who was projected top 5 before the season, had a disappointing junior year after a great freshman year and a mediocre sophomore year, and probably isn't going top 5 any more.

Both guys were projected really high because of what people thought they'd do their junior year after what they did early on in college. Neither had an outstanding pre-draft process. Thibodeaux had a better year, still a disappointing one, and has fallen a few spots. Karlaftis has had an absolute free fall, nobody's saying it's because he's a bad guy. I'd get the Thibodeaux's falling because he's a douche thing a little more if he had like 12 sacks instead of 7 and actually had a good combine instead of a couple mediocre/skipped results in important tests for pass rushers. The fall's warranted even if he's got zero character questions.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Mangini built those teams tho

Definitely did. 

And he had them in prime position for a SB run, but he didn't have the mentality of a big coach. Folded like a tent when it mattered most. 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Definitely did. 

And he had them in prime position for a SB run, but he didn't have the mentality of a big coach. Folded like a tent when it mattered most. 

In terms of building the roster, avoid guys who spend too much time in the trainers room is the golden rule. Build off from there. Which is why KT is probably a no for me. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

18 minutes ago, derp said:

I think he's also stuck in between things, to an extent. You want production it's Hutchinson, athleticism it's Walker. The good but not great production plus good but not great testing numbers plus prospect fatigue plus a polarizing personality make for a guy with a wide range.

I have this weird feeling Hutchinson somehow becomes a Jet but I'm probably just in draft fatigue mode.

I'd be really happy with Hutch.  If nothing else he's going to go all out on every snap and that kind of effort speaks to me.  

Hutch and Lawson is a really nice set of bookends. 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

24 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

I don’t see how Douglas can use a 4th overall pick on Thibodeaux after the Becton and Mims train wrecks. Are we collecting players with impressive physical attributes or building a team? 

Idk if you have seen yet but Mims is getting jacked this off season. So…slow your role. 

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

In terms of building the roster, avoid guys who spend too much time in the trainers room is the golden rule. Build off from there. Which is why KT is probably a no for me. 

Who do u want at 4? Ickey?