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Is there anything you would have done different in Round 1?


Facts
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I wouldn't change anything. Passing on Gardner would have been dumb IMO. He's an all pro level prospect. No one can convince me that even in the current game, an elite corner does not make you a much better defensive team I maintained for a long time that the Jets would not go EDGE at either 4 and 10 as they did not think any of them were really elite and that they were mid-late first round and second rounders and we got Johnson right in that area. 

I preferred London but he is a much bigger boom or bust prospect than Wilson.

In fact, one of the thing I LOVED about this draft is we avoided the riskier players that have "higher upsides" Every one of the players we selected IMO have very little bust potential. All of them at a minimum should be very solid starters.

I love that they chose Ruckert. In the end the Jets might have selected the #1 WR, CB, RB and TE in a single draft.

This draft reminds me a lot of last years draft to be honest but with maybe even higher level players. I think Moore and Carter are Pro Bowl level players and we added a WR and RB that are possibly even better prospect than they were, We could make the playoffs just on the strength of those tandems alone.

 

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4 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Funny you were critical of the Wilson pick before and now you're saying it's exactly what you would do.

Seems like you just want to dump on the draft. You're a blatant troll.

I think you may be confusing my feelings about Zach Wilson with Garret Wilson. But anyway, If you read my post above (literally just a few posts after my original), I explained that I originally wanted Jameson Williams. But after thinking about it for a day, I decided that I liked that JD went with the non-injured guy and that it was a safer pick. Not sure how it’s dumping on the draft to say that JD took the right guy, but ok.

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Regarding JJ slide, once you get to pick 15 and look at each individual team that passed in JJ, they really didn’t need an edge or they were trying to fill holes with their selections. Maybe the guy sucks but I think it was good fortune more than anything.

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22 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I thought Sauce was a luxury. Would’ve had no problem getting a high-quality CB at the top of round 2 to add to the JR Reed, Bryce Hall group. But in this defense I would absolutely prioritize the pass rush upfront.

Sauce might be a luxury.  And I think there's a question of how much a DB is even allowed to play in today's NFL.  But I'm still very happy about the pick.  When you pick #4 you want to get a really talented player and it sounds people thought Sauce might've been the best player in the draft plus a "clean prospect".  The fact that we filled in WR1 and Edge with top prospects later in the 1st round feels like things couldn't have worked out much better.  

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10 minutes ago, Facts said:

You agree with 2 of my 3 picks… yet it’s weird logic?

The falling knife logic makes no sense. It presumes that value drafting is equivalent to the evaluation of prospects. Basically, what really matters is whether or not JJ is a better prospect than Karlaftis not if JJ was given a bad value by internet talking heads. You’re essentially using an unknowable piece of information to solidify your stance on something. 

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I get what you’re saying.
But to take a guy at #4 OVERALL for him to “cover well, tackle well and limit YAC” does not give me “best value” vibes.
Thats something you could get with Booth in the 2nd round.
At #4 overall i’m looking for a game wrecker. That’s Thibs.
I agree with your point here - i know it's a big jump from college to NFL but if Sauce can still be a guy that opposing QBs actively avoid it'll be a game wrecker in a different sense. A guy who opposing OCs have to plan around / account for. I think Sauce can be special at the position, moreso than the guys taken later. But clearly there is still value overall attributed to the CB position.

And if he can get us a few turnovers that will certainly impact the game significantly. Our defensive backs have not created much on that front for years. I think our first INT last season was from a DL.

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1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

The falling knife logic makes no sense. It presumes that value drafting is equivalent to the evaluation of prospects. Basically, what really matters is whether or not JJ is a better prospect than Karlaftis not if JJ was giving a bad value by internet talking heads. You’re essentially using an unknowable piece of information to solidify your stance on something. 

Ok fair enough.

I guess i’ll just say that I think Karlaftis will have a better career than JJ and I was using JJ falling to somehow prove that. Which is faulty, as you pointed out. Sorry.

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20 minutes ago, Facts said:

JJ fell (and perhaps would have not even went in the first round without JD). Ask yourself why?

Karlaftis went where he should have. 

Tom Brady went in the 6th Round.

Dan Marino went at 27.

 

Jon Randle was undrafted. 

 

Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick.

 

And on and on. 

 

Teams target specific players, have specific needs, don't account for certain contingencies, have HC or GMs that want a specific player or profile. It happens every year.

 

Saying you prefer a guy taken at 30 because he was expected to go 30th over a guy far more physically talented, productive, and a better scheme fit who was projected by EVERYONE TO BE TOP 10 that happened to slide right to us is downright STUPID.

 

Maybe you need to continue that break you took.  Or eat a snickers or something. 

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19 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Karlaftis was supposed to be a top 10 pick a month ago then continued to drop rapidly. Hence why he was being mocked in the later picks 

I like both JJ and Karlaftis and would have liked both. I just think it’s funny how you said you don’t want to catch a guy who was falling then took karlaftis. 
 

 

I’m still so happy the Jets shrewdly didn’t make an easy move up for Aaron Rodgers, who fell just as hard.

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Just now, Facts said:

Ok fair enough.

I guess i’ll just say that I think Karlaftis will have a better career than JJ and I was using JJ falling to somehow prove that. Which is faulty, as you pointed out. Sorry.

Yeah… I agree with that point. Karlaftis is gonna be Shaun Ellis and we took Bryan Thomas. Bryan Thomas was a good pro, Ellis bordered on great.

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5 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Tom Brady went in the 6th Round.

Dan Marino went at 27.

 

Jon Randle was undrafted. 

 

Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick.

 

And on and on. 

 

Teams target specific players, have specific needs, don't account for certain contingencies, have HC or GMs that want a specific player or profile. It happens every year.

 

Saying you prefer a guy taken at 30 because he was expected to go 30th over a guy far more physically talented, productive, and a better scheme fit who was projected by EVERYONE TO BE TOP 10 that happened to slide right to us is downright STUPID.

 

Maybe you need to continue that break you took.  Or eat a snickers or something. 

Ok you’re right JJ is a hof’er.

All joking aside, now go ahead and list all the plays that fell and didn’t have a good career.

We remember the exceptions because they’re exceptions.

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Love Gardner, but I would’ve taken Ickey at 4 because I have no faith in Becton. I hope he comes back and dominates, but what if we have all these playmakers matched  with an offensive line can’t give any time?
I understand your concern ... but if we have a good running game keeping the defense honest and WRs that can get open quicker, Zach shouldn't need as long to be finding and hitting his targets.

LaFleur seems to want the offense to get the ball into the playmakers hands quickly, create yards after the catch, while still holding a threat to burn you deep as soon as you cheat up to stop that. If Zach can learn to work that way - and I get that that's still an "if" at this stage - we could have a pretty dangerous offense.

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m still so happy the Jets shrewdly didn’t make an easy move up for Aaron Rodgers, who fell just as hard.

Right. Why take a falling knife like Rodgers when you can draft darnold and Sanchez early!

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2 minutes ago, Facts said:

Ok fair enough.

I guess i’ll just say that I think Karlaftis will have a better career than JJ and I was using JJ falling to somehow prove that. Which is faulty, as you pointed out. Sorry.

Karlaftis is athletically nowhere near the top Edge Rushers (including JJ) in this draft. He will be a solid player (a poor man's Ryan Kerrigan), but JJ is in the same size/athleticism neighborhood as Khalil Mack or Von Miller. 

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No draft is perfect and you will disagree with A LOT of picks, but this one feels better than anything I can remember in a long time.  

Hopefully they don't all suck because no one knows what the future holds for these kids.

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14 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Yeah… I agree with that point. Karlaftis is gonna be Shaun Ellis and we took Bryan Thomas. Bryan Thomas was a good pro, Ellis bordered on great.

You think JJ is going to lose 40lbs accidentally because he doesn't know how to cook, or he's going to admit that he falls asleep at meetings, doesn't like film study, and has no idea what hes doing?

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16 minutes ago, fullblast said:

Don't know if I would have traded up for JJ over grabbing a different prospect at 35/38.

That said I'm still very content with how things played out.

It's a legitimate question.

at 35 they can take Hall - without trading up again.

So now they would have 38 and 69.  Who you take at 38? 69?  Is that an upgrade over JJ.

No way to know - but certainly interesting to think about.

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3 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Karlaftis is athletically nowhere near the top Edge Rushers (including JJ) in this draft. He will be a solid player (a poor man's Ryan Kerrigan), but JJ is in the same size/athleticism neighborhood as Khalil Mack or Von Miller. 

Agree to disagree.

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19 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I wouldn't change anything. Passing on Gardner would have been dumb IMO. He's an all pro level prospect. No one can convince me that even in the current game, an elite corner does not make you a much better defensive team I maintained for a long time that the Jets would not go EDGE at either 4 and 10 as they did not think any of them were really elite and that they were mid-late first round and second rounders and we got Johnson right in that area. 

I preferred London but he is a much bigger boom or bust prospect than Wilson.

In fact, one of the thing I LOVED about this draft is we avoided the riskier players that have "higher upsides" Every one of the players we selected IMO have very little bust potential. All of them at a minimum should be very solid starters.

I love that they chose Ruckert. In the end the Jets might have selected the #1 WR, CB, RB and TE in a single draft.

This draft reminds me a lot of last years draft to be honest but with maybe even higher level players. I think Moore and Carter are Pro Bowl level players and we added a WR and RB that are possibly even better prospect than they were, We could make the playoffs just on the strength of those tandems alone.

Great post!  The other thing about Sauce is that we're going to face a lot of top WRs in both our division and conference.  It's good to at least have a guy that will, hopefully, not get embarrassed to the point where the game will be wrecked.  We're facing Tyreek Hill (and Jaylen Waddle) and Stefon Diggs 2x per year each for the forseeable future.  They'll still get their yards but we'll have someone legit to put against them now.

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11 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's a legitimate question.

at 35 they can take Hall - without trading up again.

So now they would have 38 and 69.  Who you take at 38? 69?  Is that an upgrade over JJ.

No way to know - but certainly interesting to think about.

I probably take Ebiketie at 38 and Travis Jones at 69 knowing what I know now.

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10 minutes ago, Facts said:

Agree to disagree.

Hmm. Are you denying their respective known height/weight and measured performance data? 

 

Are you denying their respective on field production?

 

Or are you projecting an unknown future for a couple of prospects based on....feelings?

 

Maybe you should change your name. 

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Great post!  The other thing about Sauce is that we're going to face a lot of top WRs in both our division and conference.  It's good to at least have a guy that will, hopefully, not get embarrassed to the point where the game will be wrecked.  We're facing Tyreek Hill (and Jaylen Waddle) and Stefon Diggs 2x per year each for the forseeable future.  They'll still get their yards but we'll have someone legit to put against them now.
And how could you forget Tyquan Thornton catching all those deep bombs from Mac "The Arm" Jones?

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11 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

You think JJ is going to lose 40lbs accidentally because he doesn't know how to cook, or he's going to admit that he falls asleep at meetings, doesn't like film study, and has no idea what hes doing?

Think more like PEAK Bryan Thomas. So like 6-8 sacks, hustle plays and good run pursuit. 

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Ok you’re right JJ is a hof’er.
All joking aside, now go ahead and list all the plays that fell and didn’t have a good career.
We remember the exceptions because they’re exceptions.


Karlaftis did actually drop, but over a longer period of time. I remember him mocked in Top 10 and even to us at 4 in quite a few. I am not a huge draft junkie and don’t know a ton about college prospects, but I looked into him just because he was mocked to us at 4. I was surprised to see him go so late because of those earlier mock drafts.


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55 minutes ago, Facts said:

Glad you agree.

I do think Sauce will be good and we’ll be happy to have him, but at #4 overall I just think we could have gotten a player that wrecks games on a play by play basis. It’s really tough for CB’s to do that now.

I’d rather have Sauce and JJ instead of KT and what other CB?

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The only change I might make would be George Karlaftis > Jermaine Johnson.

But that is a quibble, I am 100% happy with our draft so far.

Wilson, Hall and Ruckert were personal top choices I consistently advocated for.

I'm 100% good with Gardner > Thibs.

Very happy so far.  

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16 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Karlaftis is athletically nowhere near the top Edge Rushers (including JJ) in this draft. He will be a solid player (a poor man's Ryan Kerrigan), but JJ is in the same size/athleticism neighborhood as Khalil Mack or Von Miller. 

No. 
JJ avoided all agility testing for no reason other than “he didnt want to”

JJ also avoided pass rushing drills at the combine

JJ’s vertical jump is in the 36 percentile.

JJ also weighed in below the average weight of edge defenders.

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