Jet fans have gone from "Fire Everyone" to "The window to win a Super Bowl in now".

[Origen]

Crazy how processes process like a process sometimes.

[doitny]

3 minutes ago, football guy said:

I don’t think the team is all that invested in the stats as much as fans are. Its only natural to want to compare, but the truth is the organization has the utmost confidence that Zach will develop into an established franchise QB. As has been repeated a few times now whether it be on here or straight from the horse’s mouth, the primary development they’ve wanted to see with him is improvement with his command and comfort level in the offense. They know he has very elite throwing talent and playmaking skills, but they wanted him to become a more efficient game manager, which he has. I don’t think the average fan appreciates how methodical the team is being with him. The coaches and execs all feel he has the rare throwing ability of Allen/Mahomes/Rodgers/Murray, but they understand that in order to ensure reaches that level, he needs to master the little things first and improve incrementally before he can be the “video game” QB. The team expects him to “pop” soon — whether it’s this year or next — and much of their handling of him has a lot to do with how they saw the Bills develop Josh Allen. That was the blueprint. So I don’t think it really matters whether Zach throws for 10 TDs or 30; if he keeps performing the way he has over the last 10 quarters, they will continue to be bullish on him because of said rare ability and the jump he will inevitably make with this talent and time spent in the offense. My guess is you’ll see him start putting up the bigger statistical games post-bye, but really as long as he stays healthy and keeps playing efficiently, fans should be extremely encouraged about the leap that he’s bound to take this year, next, or the following whenever it happens.

well then there taking an awful chance if he doesnt look better then he has these 1st 3 games. if we have to wait till 2024 to find a FA QB we have till the end of the year to pay AVT and one more year before we have this draft class to pay... and we cant keep them all.

if they dont care about throwing 10 TDs how about his comp % ? there ok with another 56 or so % ? 

as being a fan for all these years i have seen the horses mouth change his mind. we were told once that Jamal Adams would be a Jet for life. 

we are 4-2 and have a serious chance at the playoffs. if we miss it and Zach finishes with a 55% and 10 or so TDs Saleh and JD will have to see we have a good team and are just a good QB away from winning. 

you do think that our window is 2023-2025 right? if Zach doesnt pop something this year we cant give him a 3rd. and no way a 4th to see if he has it. the window will be almost closed.

i know you got inside info but right know your hearing like this fan base is doing. all high on the wins. dont worry Zach will be fine. go 4-7 and miss the playoffs and Zach didn't pop anything, that talk could and should change.

 

[football guy]

16 minutes ago, doitny said:

well then there taking an awful chance if he doesnt look better then he has these 1st 3 games. if we have to wait till 2024 to find a FA QB we have till the end of the year to pay AVT and one more year before we have this draft class to pay... and we cant keep them all.

if they dont care about throwing 10 TDs how about his comp % ? there ok with another 56 or so % ? 

as being a fan for all these years i have seen the horses mouth change his mind. we were told once that Jamal Adams would be a Jet for life. 

we are 4-2 and have a serious chance at the playoffs. if we miss it and Zach finishes with a 55% and 10 or so TDs Saleh and JD will have to see we have a good team and are just a good QB away from winning. 

you do think that our window is 2023-2025 right? if Zach doesnt pop something this year we cant give him a 3rd. and no way a 4th to see if he has it. the window will be almost closed.

i know you got inside info but right know your hearing like this fan base is doing. all high on the wins. dont worry Zach will be fine. go 4-7 and miss the playoffs and Zach didn't pop anything, that talk could and should change.

 

All the things you are saying are rooted in your history rooting for the team and your own perspectives—not anything rooted in reality. They think they have the QB and the organization is approaching things that way.  They don’t believe their window will close given the amount of money they have and their ability to keep drafting and developing talent. As far as Zach, whether he throws 10 TDs or 30 this year won’t change their perspective. If he plays horribly inconsistent, commits turnovers, and impedes them from operating the offense the way LaFleur calls it then they will reconsider. But right now they want him to learn how to play within the offense — which he is — and they want to see how he responds when plays break down or when the team needs him most — which he has. You might as well be patient and stick along for the ride… I can guarantee you that barring catastrophic injury or regression nothing will change their plan heading into 2023 and most likely 2024.

[doitny]

5 hours ago, football guy said:

All the things you are saying are rooted in your history rooting for the team and your own perspectives—not anything rooted in reality. They think they have the QB and the organization is approaching things that way.  They don’t believe their window will close given the amount of money they have and their ability to keep drafting and developing talent. As far as Zach, whether he throws 10 TDs or 30 this year won’t change their perspective. If he plays horribly inconsistent, commits turnovers, and impedes them from operating the offense the way LaFleur calls it then they will reconsider. But right now they want him to learn how to play within the offense — which he is — and they want to see how he responds when plays break down or when the team needs him most — which he has. You might as well be patient and stick along for the ride… I can guarantee you that barring catastrophic injury or regression nothing will change their plan heading into 2023 and most likely 2024.

i think we can agree the reality is that JD wont hit a HR in every draft. so he cant expect to replace top guys with top guys. no more 2 first rd picks. its going to be harder to replace some of these guys he cant pay.

i can be patient when i see something. i have seen 1 great QT out of 12. 7 bad quarters and 4 ok qts. i seen arrant throws that he lucky to not get picked off. i can go on and on but you watched the games. you cant be happy either.

right now he is on pace to have the worst numbers of any 2nd year QB in the last 12 years. unless someone from his own draft class beats him. 

maybe 10 TDs was the wrong thing to judge him by, comp % is a better judge. 

i like JD and Saleh but if Zach finishes this year bad then they better bring in a serious QB to backup and replace if needed for Zack in 2023. i dont know what the plan was for 2023 before, but now its playoffs. 

if Zach plays well this year then he gets 2023. if not you can start him next year but you got to have someone who can replace him in the season. Woody is not a patient man. 

 

[doitny]

7 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Probably next year too.

Saleh has said multiple times that you don’t know what you have in a player until three years. He says the players mature at different rates and you have to give a guy at least three years. 
 

I know it’s going to cause a meltdown on the site if Zach doesn’t look really good at the end of this year, but I think Saleh has telegraphed Zach is getting through 2023. 

well they better have a backup plan to replace him mid season if he is bad next year. we have to make the playoffs next year. this team is too good. we really should make it this year. 

and it wont be us just melting down. i heard people in the media keep saying that the winning is great, but we need better QB play. Zachs Proformance's are not going unnoticed. if he doesnt get better they will only get louder. 

[slats]

7 hours ago, football guy said:

All the things you are saying are rooted in your history rooting for the team and your own perspectives—not anything rooted in reality. They think they have the QB and the organization is approaching things that way.  They don’t believe their window will close given the amount of money they have and their ability to keep drafting and developing talent. As far as Zach, whether he throws 10 TDs or 30 this year won’t change their perspective. If he plays horribly inconsistent, commits turnovers, and impedes them from operating the offense the way LaFleur calls it then they will reconsider. But right now they want him to learn how to play within the offense — which he is — and they want to see how he responds when plays break down or when the team needs him most — which he has. You might as well be patient and stick along for the ride… I can guarantee you that barring catastrophic injury or regression nothing will change their plan heading into 2023 and most likely 2024.

This has been my observation from the outside. They are being very deliberate with Zach. They’re putting an offense around him that can win games without star-level QB play to allow him to grow into the role. There has been some genuine improvement, especially in the routine plays. He’s getting the short passes out -not perfectly but- where his guys can catch them. There haven’t been any yips or bounce passes this season. And, again, the turnovers remain way down. 
 
He’s lucky that Jet fans have proven to be a super patient fan base, and will be able to sit back and watch his development and enjoy the wins however they come in the meantime. 

[football guy]

11 minutes ago, slats said:

This has been my observation from the outside. They are being very deliberate with Zach. They’re putting an offense around him that can win games without star-level QB play to allow him to grow into the role. There has been some genuine improvement, especially in the routine plays. He’s getting the short passes out -not perfectly but- where his guys can catch them. There haven’t been any yips or bounce passes this season. And, again, the turnovers remain way down. 
 
He’s lucky that Jet fans have proven to be a super patient fan base, and will be able to sit back and watch his development and enjoy the wins however they come in the meantime. 

I can promise you they are not looking at the traditional stats while evaluating him, and many teams don't. Sure if he went out and threw a bunch of TDs against Miami there would be more boasting, but from a self-scouting perspective there is no difference between his performance without a TD versus if Breece Hall made it in the end zone on his two pass catches where he was stopped on the 1... and that's the point I'm trying to drive. Fans, media, and record books are going to look at it at the end of the season without context and put more weight in the amount of TDs, whereas the coaches and scouts are not going to outside of generic talking points. 

The topic itself is kind of irrelevant and too soon anyway. He's only 3 games in, and in 2 of them didn't require us to throw much in the second half due to the leads. But the point is they are much more focused on him being efficient from within the offense then they are having him chuck it around the yard for the sake of having a certain amount of yards or certain amount of TDs; that's not the metric they're going to use when determining whether Zach is their QB going forward or not 

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, football guy said:

 but from a self-scouting perspective there is no difference between his performance without a TD versus if Breece Hall made it in the end zone on his two pass catches where he was stopped on the 1...

This is such an important point to emphasize.  Just because Hall does/doesn't make that last yard into the end zone has no bearing on Zach's play.  I'm hoping that the pass blocking improves a bit, Zach gets a little quicker to release, and the WRs don't drop easy catches.  Even very small improvements in those areas should make a substantial difference in the results.  I'm also sure this, and more, is being worked on at every practice.

[HessStation]

I hate the Jets but I’ve been adamant since week 1 that they’re one of the most talented young teams in the league 

[Coffee Is Great]

Compared to other fanbases in the city, ours is myopic, impatient, and frankly has questionable intelligence. Half the fanbase behaves like a toddler or "I want it now!" girl from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, doitny said:

you need to look at his stats again. he was a good game manager. Emmit Smith carried those teams. 

those QBs your thinking of are from a different era. those stats are not acceptable anymore. but good luck trying to convince people that if Zach throws 11 TDs that thats ok because Troy Aikman did it in 1990.

whats next if Zach throws for 49% you will say thats fine too cause thats what Terry Bradshaw did in the 70s?

good QBs in this era dont struggle in their 2nd year. we're not going to be the only team to wait 4 years for a QB to throw 20 TDs. its not 1990 anymore

Are you denying he became a HOF QB?  After having a really bad start to his career?  That’s the comment.  Compared to QBs of his era, Troy Aikman was really good.  A HOF QB.  That a QB from his eras stats don’t match up to todays game is pointless.  
I never compared a 1990 QBs stats to a 2020 QB, YOU did.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

52 minutes ago, slats said:

This has been my observation from the outside. They are being very deliberate with Zach. They’re putting an offense around him that can win games without star-level QB play to allow him to grow into the role. There has been some genuine improvement, especially in the routine plays. He’s getting the short passes out -not perfectly but- where his guys can catch them. There haven’t been any yips or bounce passes this season. And, again, the turnovers remain way down. 
 
He’s lucky that Jet fans have proven to be a super patient fan base, and will be able to sit back and watch his development and enjoy the wins however they come in the meantime. 

Steve Young basically said this on the Michael Kay show the other day. It's the ideal situation for a QB. It's a role that's gonna benefit him and everyone in the future. He can be more careful, be efficient, and just do the commodity work. There's no harm in working within the offense. 

[T0mShane]

27 minutes ago, football guy said:

that's not the metric they're going to use when determining whether Zach is their QB going forward or not 

Thanks for sharing this and it all makes sense, but the only thing I’d question is that there aren’t a lot of metrics where Zach rates well unless we’re just comparing them to Zach’s 2021 metrics where there’s some incremental improvement, which I assume is where they’re looking? 

[docdhc]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Thanks for sharing this and it all makes sense, but the only thing I’d question is that there aren’t a lot of metrics where Zach rates well unless we’re just comparing them to Zach’s 2021 metrics where there’s some incremental improvement, which I assume is where they’re looking? 

Think back 3 games ago when we were 1-2 and many of us were declaring the whole program a failure and had Saleh on the hot seat. A 3 game winning streak and now we’re a media darling with the national media singing our praises and everyone talking playoffs. The point is we can’t make serious long term evaluations on such small sample sizes. We know Zach has been a part of 3 victories, led an impressive 4th quarter comeback with spectacular play, and has struggled for large parts of games as well. He hasn’t turned the ball over, though, shown flashes of his potential, and deserves the time to develop into the player that looks more frequently like the one in the 4th quarter in Pittsburgh and less like the one in the first half in Green Bay. We can sit down and chew on his stats at the end of the year and then I think we can fairly determine if there’s been the incremental improvement you’re looking for, but not after 3 games in the midst of wildly swinging emotions and expectations. 

[jgb]

23 hours ago, Warfish said:

I say it often, I cannot speak for others.

But if anyone thinks I'm pissed, lol, they should see me in my office right now, decked out in full Jets "work" gear (Jets polo, Hat on desk), and the huge smile I've had every time a coworker has come by to chat football.

Being wrong on the internet is not something to fear.  I get plenty right.  Like Breece Hall  who I was behind drafting long before most here, lol.  I got wins on predictions stacked in piles, I'm not worried about being wrong when we're better than I expected.  Hell, one of the first thing I posted post game was in the "predict the Packers score" thread to own how deeply wrong my pre-game prediction was, lol.

That's the thing, I think some fans think pessimism or cynicism or doubt, or even just analysis that isn't flattering, is disqualifying for fandom.  

I'll never understand that viewpoint personally.  

I’m sick of being right on the Internet about the Jets sucking being the highlight of the NFL season

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, football guy said:

I can promise you they are not looking at the traditional stats while evaluating him, and many teams don't. Sure if he went out and threw a bunch of TDs against Miami there would be more boasting, but from a self-scouting perspective there is no difference between his performance without a TD versus if Breece Hall made it in the end zone on his two pass catches where he was stopped on the 1... and that's the point I'm trying to drive. Fans, media, and record books are going to look at it at the end of the season without context and put more weight in the amount of TDs, whereas the coaches and scouts are not going to outside of generic talking points. 

The topic itself is kind of irrelevant and too soon anyway. He's only 3 games in, and in 2 of them didn't require us to throw much in the second half due to the leads. But the point is they are much more focused on him being efficient from within the offense then they are having him chuck it around the yard for the sake of having a certain amount of yards or certain amount of TDs; that's not the metric they're going to use when determining whether Zach is their QB going forward or not 

Very good points, especially on the touchdowns. For QB it is kind of funny. The one game two passes were down at the 1. They ran both in. Zach's #s look better if they are both passing.

Any why are rushing TDs by the QB just routinely dismissed. A touchdown is a touchdown.  Sure, I want the fancy passing #s but as long as they are winning it is good.

[jgb]

23 hours ago, batman10023 said:

Most of us are enjoying it well.

Some posters are definitely a bit annoyed that their negatively shtick is getting laughed at.  Some are keeping up the act but others are now saying they are enjoying the wins.   But deep down we all know they are pissed.

 

Lol so you think jets fans saying they enjoy the jets winning are secretly pissed? Not quite sure how such “ideas” even form.

[doitny]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Are you denying he became a HOF QB?  After having a really bad start to his career?  That’s the comment.  Compared to QBs of his era, Troy Aikman was really good.  A HOF QB.  That a QB from his eras stats don’t match up to todays game is pointless.  
I never compared a 1990 QBs stats to a 2020 QB, YOU did.  

but did he really have a bad start to his career? by today's standards he did, but as we already established, we can't compare the 2 eras by stats.   that is why i didn't go back this far because you can't compare the stats. so how do we know if they really struggled in their Era?

Troy Aikman has a 12 year career. his numbers are

61.5%  32,942  165 TD 141 INT .... thats come to a 12 year avg of

61.5%  2,745 yds   13.7 TD  11.7 INT    now his 2nd year stats are...

56.6%  2,579 yds    11 TD    18 INT

his INTs are a little high and % a little low but his yards and TDs are right around his career HOF avg. judging by his own career averages i dont think he was good but also not bad. if Zach throws 11 TDs in 14 games thats a bad year.

and i dont think Aikman should be in the HOF. that team was carried by the best RB in NFL history. he was dominate back then. he is there for his 3 rings. in today game run dominate teams can make the playoffs but can never win.

 

[nycdan]

12 minutes ago, doitny said:

 

and i dont think Aikman should be in the HOF. that team was carried by the best RB in NFL history. he was dominate back then. he is there for his 3 rings. in today game run dominate teams can make the playoffs but can never win.

 

That is the most wrong take in the history of this board.

Very good RB, dominant OL.  I'm fairly confident 95% of the posters on this board will concur.

Emmitt was very good.  He was not even Top-5 all time good.  But probably Top-1 in terms of good fortune.

[slats]

5 minutes ago, nycdan said:

That is the most wrong take in the history of this board.

Very good RB, dominant OL.  I'm fairly confident 95% of the posters on this board will concur.

Emmitt was very good.  He was not even Top-5 all time good.  But probably Top-1 in terms of good fortune.

That team was built -and built well- on the Hershel Walker trade. I agree with @doitny that Aikman is overrated, though. Even at the time, his stats were pretty weak. But if we can win three Super Bowls in four years with Zach managing games in a similar fashion, I’ll be more than happy to put him in the HoF, too. The man was clutch when he had to be. That’s the difference. 

[Jet Nut]

28 minutes ago, doitny said:

but did he really have a bad start to his career? by today's standards he did, but as we already established, we can't compare the 2 eras by stats.   that is why i didn't go back this far because you can't compare the stats. so how do we know if they really struggled in their Era?

Troy Aikman has a 12 year career. his numbers are

61.5%  32,942  165 TD 141 INT .... thats come to a 12 year avg of

61.5%  2,745 yds   13.7 TD  11.7 INT    now his 2nd year stats are...

56.6%  2,579 yds    11 TD    18 INT

his INTs are a little high and % a little low but his yards and TDs are right around his career HOF avg. judging by his own career averages i dont think he was good but also not bad. if Zach throws 11 TDs in 14 games thats a bad year.

and i dont think Aikman should be in the HOF. that team was carried by the best RB in NFL history. he was dominate back then. he is there for his 3 rings. in today game run dominate teams can make the playoffs but can never win.

 

Dude stop.  You’re off on a rant.  My point stands, most start off poorly.  Very few, a ridiculously small percentage start out strong.  Don’t know why you’re fixated in tearing Aikman down the claiming he didn’t start off poorly.

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

That team was built -and built well- on the Hershel Walker trade. I agree with @doitny that Aikman is overrated, though. Even at the time, his stats were pretty weak. But if we can win three Super Bowls in four years with Zach managing games in a similar fashion, I’ll be more than happy to put him in the HoF, too. The man was clutch when he had to be. That’s the difference. 

Oh, I absolutely agree that Aikman was overrated and not HoF-worthy.  That team was the absolute expression of probably the best OL in the history of the NFL.  Everything worked and everyone benefitted because of that OL.  

[Biggs]

21 minutes ago, nycdan said:

That is the most wrong take in the history of this board.

Very good RB, dominant OL.  I'm fairly confident 95% of the posters on this board will concur.

Emmitt was very good.  He was not even Top-5 all time good.  But probably Top-1 in terms of good fortune.

He wasn't top 5 in NFL history.  He was outright a great, dominating running back.  He was first team all pro 4 consecutive years.  He lead the league in rushing 4 times and 4 out of 5 consecutive years.  In 17 playoff games he averaged 4.5 and had 19 rushing TD's. 

If he isn't great Curtis Martin shouldn't sniff the HOF. 

The NFL has had some incredible running backs.  Not being in the top 5 doesn't mean he wasn't flat out great. 

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

He wasn't top 5 in NFL history.  He was outright a great, dominating running back.  He was first team all pro 4 consecutive years.  He lead the league in rushing 4 times and 4 out of 5 consecutive years.  In 17 playoff games he averaged 4.5 and had 19 rushing TD's. 

If he isn't great Curtis Martin shouldn't sniff the HOF. 

The NFL has had some incredible running backs.  Not being in the top 5 doesn't mean he wasn't flat out great. 

There's no way to know - but how do you think Curtis would have looked running behind that OL?  So much of a RBs success/failure is determined by that, except for unicorns like Barry or Jim Brown who would succeed in any situation.  I am not convinced Emmitt was one of those.  Not saying he doesn't deserve HoF because his numbers absolutely merit it (unlike Aikman) but I would take guys like Brown, Sanders, Campbell, Payton, and OJ over Emmitt without even pausing to consider it.  That's all I'm saying about the top-5 debate.

[Biggs]

23 minutes ago, slats said:

That team was built -and built well- on the Hershel Walker trade. I agree with @doitny that Aikman is overrated, though. Even at the time, his stats were pretty weak. But if we can win three Super Bowls in four years with Zach managing games in a similar fashion, I’ll be more than happy to put him in the HoF, too. The man was clutch when he had to be. That’s the difference. 

1993 Season, one of their SB seasons Aikman was very good.  69% completion percentage lead the league, 2nd in Y/A at 7.9 really good.  Second in QB rating really good.  Aikman is sort of an anomoly.  He had a 12 year career but he only had 6 peak years.  He's first two and last 4 were statistically way below his peak years.

He clearly wasn't as good as the top historic NFL QB's but he had 6 really good years where he was among the leaders in compeltion percentage and yards per A.  He's playoffs performance against top teams were solid with no drop off.  

It's like comparing Martin to Walter Payton.  Not in the historic elite camp but in his peak years you would love to have him as your QB.  

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

There's no way to know - but how do you think Curtis would have looked running behind that OL?  So much of a RBs success/failure is determined by that, except for unicorns like Barry or Jim Brown who would succeed in any situation.  I am not convinced Emmitt was one of those.  Not saying he doesn't deserve HoF because his numbers absolutely merit it (unlike Aikman) but I would take guys like Brown, Sanders, Campbell, Payton, and OJ over Emmitt without even pausing to consider it.  That's all I'm saying about the top-5 debate.

Martin shouldn't be in the conversation with Smith.  

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Martin shouldn't be in the conversation with Smith.  

Eh.  There are levels.  Good, great, and GOAT.  Guys like Martin, Gore and Smith are in varying levels of great.  I'd put Dickerson in there too.  I think that @nycdan listed the guys I think are in the GOAT conversation - Payton, Sanders, Earl, OJ, and Brown.  There are guys that may have had better careers because they lasted longer and were durable and there were some flash guys that didn't last like Bo Jackson and Sayers, but IMO the GOAT has to come from that list.

[batman10023]

17 hours ago, doitny said:

meanwhile in NE Mac outplayed Zach last year as a rookie and now they have Zappe who is outplaying Zach after just 2 starts. but if Zach puts up Mark Sanchez numbers this year were supposed to give him year 3 cause there is a 0.1% chance, he could be Josh Allen? what about the 99% chance he is bust like a million other 1st rd QBs who had 2 bad years.

 

why do you think Mac and now Zappe are outplaying Zach?

is it due to Zach or coaching or system?

in terms of year 3 personally i agree with you.  i want to see real progress in year 2 otherwise bring someone else in.

[batman10023]

12 hours ago, football guy said:

I don’t think the team is all that invested in the stats as much as fans are. Its only natural to want to compare, but the truth is the organization has the utmost confidence that Zach will develop into an established franchise QB. As has been repeated a few times now whether it be on here or straight from the horse’s mouth, the primary development they’ve wanted to see with him is improvement with his command and comfort level in the offense. They know he has very elite throwing talent and playmaking skills, but they wanted him to become a more efficient game manager, which he has. I don’t think the average fan appreciates how methodical the team is being with him. The coaches and execs all feel he has the rare throwing ability of Allen/Mahomes/Rodgers/Murray, but they understand that in order to ensure reaches that level, he needs to master the little things first and improve incrementally before he can be the “video game” QB. The team expects him to “pop” soon — whether it’s this year or next — and much of their handling of him has a lot to do with how they saw the Bills develop Josh Allen. That was the blueprint. So I don’t think it really matters whether Zach throws for 10 TDs or 30; if he keeps performing the way he has over the last 10 quarters, they will continue to be bullish on him because of said rare ability and the jump he will inevitably make with this talent and time spent in the offense. My guess is you’ll see him start putting up the bigger statistical games post-bye, but really as long as he stays healthy and keeps playing efficiently, fans should be extremely encouraged about the leap that he’s bound to take this year, next, or the following whenever it happens.

thank you for the great insight.  it's always appreciated.

question for you - how is this different than how the organization felt about Sam Darnold.  because many could have said the same things only to find out he wasn't the guy.

[batman10023]

11 hours ago, 65 Toss Power Trap said:

Probably next year too.

Saleh has said multiple times that you don’t know what you have in a player until three years. He says the players mature at different rates and you have to give a guy at least three years. 
 

I know it’s going to cause a meltdown on the site if Zach doesn’t look really good at the end of this year, but I think Saleh has telegraphed Zach is getting through 2023. 

let's see if he and douglas are still saying that if zach is looking bad but the rest of the team is looking like it can do great with a middle of the road vet.

[batman10023]

11 hours ago, doitny said:

well then there taking an awful chance if he doesnt look better then he has these 1st 3 games. if we have to wait till 2024 to find a FA QB we have till the end of the year to pay AVT and one more year before we have this draft class to pay... and we cant keep them all.

if they dont care about throwing 10 TDs how about his comp % ? there ok with another 56 or so % ? 

as being a fan for all these years i have seen the horses mouth change his mind. we were told once that Jamal Adams would be a Jet for life. 

we are 4-2 and have a serious chance at the playoffs. if we miss it and Zach finishes with a 55% and 10 or so TDs Saleh and JD will have to see we have a good team and are just a good QB away from winning. 

you do think that our window is 2023-2025 right? if Zach doesnt pop something this year we cant give him a 3rd. and no way a 4th to see if he has it. the window will be almost closed.

i know you got inside info but right know your hearing like this fan base is doing. all high on the wins. dont worry Zach will be fine. go 4-7 and miss the playoffs and Zach didn't pop anything, that talk could and should change.

 

your assumptions are that we won't be able to draft well to replace some of our guys.

that being said, outside of a few negative nellies - most here probably are hoping for more than 4 more wins this year.  our schedule gets a bit easier.

[ZachEY]

12 hours ago, football guy said:

I don’t think the average fan appreciates how methodical the team is being with him. 

One of the challenges with appreciating that is that within the games, being methodical with him and hiding him are virtually indistinguishable.

[football guy]

1 minute ago, batman10023 said:

thank you for the great insight.  it's always appreciated.

question for you - how is this different than how the organization felt about Sam Darnold.  because many could have said the same things only to find out he wasn't the guy.

From a sheer tools perspective Zach is far superior in terms of his throwing ability and athleticism even though Sam is no slouch in those categories either, but I think its easier for the organization to forecast how he'll grow with the coaching and talent they surrounded around him than it was with Sam. Furthermore, Douglas and the Jets coaching staff felt good about Sam's raw ability, but they understood that there would be a lot of reworking and relearning with him in order to get him to a point where he can be a consistent "game manager" without limiting his playmaking ability. What Zach has been able to do down-to-down right now is what the Jets wanted to see out of Sam- they knew he was a playmaker but did not show the consistent ability to operate within the offense. Again Zach is doing what the team is asking him to do - the "commodity work" as Steve Young eloquently put it - and he's doing it at a level that the Jets are very happy with. The casual onlooker will look at his stats and suggest he's the same player as he was last year, but any fan actually watching the games would rip that notion to shreds... his pocket presence, pocket navigation, defensive reads, protection adjustments, checks, decision-making, and overall command of the offense is night and day from what it was last year and are qualities that Sam never had the opportunity to display throughout his time with the Jets (and with the Panthers for that matter). 

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Thanks for sharing this and it all makes sense, but the only thing I’d question is that there aren’t a lot of metrics where Zach rates well unless we’re just comparing them to Zach’s 2021 metrics where there’s some incremental improvement, which I assume is where they’re looking? 

Indeed.

We can all agree Wilson shouldn't be judged on whether Breece Hall makes it another couple of yards.

But, thus far, he's not strong in the advanced metrics, and he's not passing the eye test.  He's had a few strong moments, but otherwise has been largely ineffective throwing the ball.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 hours ago, Maxman said:

Very good points, especially on the touchdowns. For QB it is kind of funny. The one game two passes were down at the 1. They ran both in. Zach's #s look better if they are both passing.

Any why are rushing TDs by the QB just routinely dismissed. A touchdown is a touchdown.  Sure, I want the fancy passing #s but as long as they are winning it is good.

A QB's job is to move the team down the field to score, period. There are no extra points for style or higher completion percentages. Zach has done what he has needed to do since coming back. Him not putting up fancy numbers is not a knock on him at the moment. If they need him to throw the ball and he fails the team and we lose, then fine, hasnt happened yet. And on the contrary, he did win the Steelers game.