How many of these guys do you keep around vs cut to create space?

[AFJF]

 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

 

 

Keep zero of them. Really, zero of them.

[Beerfish]

I agree with sperm they'd all be gone if they can be shed with minimum cap penalty.

[Sperm Edwards]

The only one I was on the fence with a few weeks back was Davis, and then he's off the field again. I could be talked into that one if he took a big enough pay cut, seeing how no one else is paying him $11MM for next year anyway and the Jets would still need to replace him anyway. But Davis at this salary? No.

Mosley, I've said plenty already. Short version = I wouldn't have him back at half that price. It's not even a money thing. They just need a better player on the field instead of him. He isn't worth another $17MM, that's for sure.

Lawson is not getting $15MM from the Jets or anyone else. Douglas just drafted 2 DEs and they both got eased in as rookies. Next year at least one of them starts.

Berrios was a feel-good signing at that amount because Douglas was too late to extend him. He's not worth $5MM when his recent value has been reduced to not muffing punts. Maybe they bring him back at a 50% pay cut, but no way at that higher number when it isn't guaranteed.

Tomlinson has visibly played better than he did in the first half of the season, but that's only because the first half was rock bottom, and the improvement is just not enough to justify an additional non-guaranteed $13MM for next year. The problem is Herbig, who'd been wow'ing people prior to December, isn't impressing anymore either. The answer could very well be to just let LT3 go and not re-sign Herbig. Or do sign him if his recent play is due to not being 100%, and take advantage of that come contract time by signing him for less than he'd have otherwise been. If he plays like he did earlier, I like the idea of an AVT-Herbig duo at guard. 

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I agree with sperm they'd all be gone if they can be shed with minimum cap penalty.

If it helps, don't get caught up in the penalty; that's all for $ already paid to them in the past - most notably for LT3 and Mosley - to push their '22 pay to '23/beyond. Really just look at how much more the team would have to pay to keep them (the 2nd number from the OP). They save what the team elects to not pay them.

Any accelerated cap hit is a non-factor, since that was hitting the cap anyway; just backload or restructure someone else instead of [continuing to backload] the guy you're cutting. 

[BurntDice]

23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Keep zero of them. Really, zero of them.

Eh I really want to start being in the comp pick game. Cutting players nets you 0 comp picks. I’d keep them all except Mosley and maybe Tomlinson 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, BurntDice said:

Eh I really want to start being in the comp pick game. Cutting players nets you 0 comp picks. I’d keep them all except Mosley and maybe Tomlinson 

What does cutting any of these guys have to do with costing the team comp picks?

[BurntDice]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What does cutting any of these guys have to do with costing the team comp picks?

If they aren’t cut and kept for one more season then Davis, berrios, and Lawson will all be gone after 2023. Don’t re sign them and that’s +3 in the comp pick formula. Cutting them now we don’t get anything besides cap space. 

[genot]

35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Keep zero of them. Really, zero of them.

Short, succinct, and 100% correct.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, BurntDice said:

If they aren’t cut and kept for one more season then Davis, berrios, and Lawson will all be gone after 2023. Don’t re sign them and that’s +3 in the comp pick formula. Cutting them now we don’t get anything besides cap space. 

You don't use $30MM in 2023 to buy 3 late picks in 2025.

The cap space is worth more. Like, a lot more, and it's not close.

[BurntDice]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You don't use $30MM in 2023 to buy 3 late picks in 2025.

The cap space is worth more. Like, a lot more, and it's not close.

The 49ers are projected to have 2 3rd round, one 5th and 1 7th just in comp picks in April. This is how you build long term success. 
 

Those players also need to be replaced.
 

Davis is a decent #2 when he’s healthy, the problem is that he’s hurt often. Who’s going to replace him? How much will it cost? 
 

Lawson has been underwhelming, sure but he’s also coming back from a major injury. How much to replace him? 
 

Can you replace berrios for 5 mil or less?

[genot]

30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The only one I was on the fence with a few weeks back was Davis, and then he's off the field again. I could be talked into that one if he took a big enough pay cut, seeing how no one else is paying him $11MM for next year anyway and the Jets would still need to replace him anyway. But Davis at this salary? No.

Mosley, I've said plenty already. Short version = I wouldn't have him back at half that price. It's not even a money thing. They just need a better player on the field instead of him. He isn't worth another $17MM, that's for sure.

Lawson is not getting $15MM from the Jets or anyone else. Douglas just drafted 2 DEs and they both got eased in as rookies. Next year at least one of them starts.

Berrios was a feel-good signing at that amount because Douglas was too late to extend him. He's not worth $5MM when his recent value has been reduced to not muffing punts. Maybe they bring him back at a 50% pay cut, but no way at that higher number when it isn't guaranteed.

Tomlinson has visibly played better than he did in the first half of the season, but that's only because the first half was rock bottom, and the improvement is just not enough to justify an additional non-guaranteed $13MM for next year. The problem is Herbig, who'd been wow'ing people prior to December, isn't impressing anymore either. The answer could very well be to just let LT3 go and not re-sign Herbig. Or do sign him if his recent play is due to not being 100%, and take advantage of that come contract time by signing him for less than he'd have otherwise been. If he plays like he did earlier, I like the idea of an AVT-Herbig duo at guard. 

Herbig hasn't been the same since he injured his shin some weeks ago. We need to make a splash trade and a splash signing in FA, for Tackles. This is ridiculous. Let's move AVT back to LG. Brown will be our swing tackle, behind two tackles we aquire in the off season. Who those might be. ??????,At this point anyway.

[redlichtie]

Not sure how Franklin-Myers isn’t on this list?….complete liability, has single handedly lost two games with dumb penalties and totally invisible without the domination of Q beside him

Davis & Lawson keep at re-structured lower cap figure and I’m not a fan of constantly chopping and changing the o-line so I probably retain Tomlinson on the basis that he’s established quality and should be better next year with hopefully less of a revolving door of colleagues along the line….the injuries really kill us, especially on the OL where continuity is so important.

it’s all well and good saying cut them all but then we need to magically find better replacements at half the price, what gives people confidence we can do that when it didn’t work this time round?

having said that I’d probably pay 5M just to be rid of Berrios, spectacularly overrated here

[jgb]

Some of these guys might have to accept a pay cut

[Joejet]

Lawson and Berrios are no brainers in my opinion. JJ and Clemons should be ready for bigger roles next year to replace Lawson. At this point Berrios is pretty much a returner and an average one at that. He can easily be replaced by a street free agent or a rookie for a fraction of the cost. Bam could also do the job but if they are thinking of him having an expanded role at RB it might be too risky to take a chance on injury. I would keep Tomlinson for another year as they have a lot of other oline issues that need to be addressed. 

I would need Mosley to do a pay cut and Davis can help if healthy. Wide receiver contracts are high so if they want him gone I would look to replace him in the draft.

[Gastineau Lives]

5 hours ago, AFJF said:

 

 

Next year the Braxton Berrios type player should no longer be on this team. You can replace what he does cheaper or in house. 

[LockeJET]

You can make a case for everyone of these guys being released. 

[Rhg1084]

The only one I’d consider bringing back is Lawson. I do not wanna mess with the strength of this team which is the D line. Maybe at a reduced cost tho 

[JiFtheOracle]

Davis and Lawson make sense to bring back, the rest?  See ya!

They have to upgrade Mosley.  They need youth and speed at that position.  As much as I loved and petitioned to resign Berrios, he's a total waste of money.  Tomlinson can go kick rocks at that price, he's sucked something awful.  

[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, AFJF said:

 

 

I would ask Mosley to take a pay cut. Nobody else would pay him 17 million so why should we. LT I would try to restructure. I think this might  just be a bad year for him. I would definitely  cut the rest. 

[extmenace]

I’d keep Mosley, seems to be a leader and a vet presence for the young guys on defense. His play is pretty good but the leadership role will be hard to replace. All the other guys. If we can use the money elsewhere, I’d have no problem moving on.

[BCJet]

It would be great to overhaul the LB corp by having Sherwood take Mosley's spot and using our first round pick on Trenton Simpson, who is the exact type of LB we need in this defense.

Berrios is overpaid and Im tired of throwing balls to someone who is 5'9 - he has a near Int off his hands every game.

Tomlinson has been a huge disappointment but im not sure how many holes we can create on the line.

Lawson makes a ton of money and we drafted his replacement in JJ.

JFM can stay on a restructured deal only as he too doesnt have the production to match his salary.  

[Barton]

2 minutes ago, extmenace said:

I’d keep Mosley, seems to be a leader and a vet presence for the young guys on defense. His play is pretty good but the leadership role will be hard to replace. All the other guys. If we can use the money elsewhere, I’d have no problem moving on.

Yea, Mosley is not an issue. He's the starting middle linebacker on a team that is top 5 in scoring defense and he calls the plays out there. 

Berrios is good depth.

Lawson is ok to bring back - at a pay cut.

Corey Davis and Laken Tomlinson can go. 

[FidelioJet]

None of them.

You have to pay QW and you need to keep Bryce Huff too (who's going to be more expensive than we think)

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, BurntDice said:

The 49ers are projected to have 2 3rd round, one 5th and 1 7th just in comp picks in April. This is how you build long term success. 
 

Those players also need to be replaced.
 

Davis is a decent #2 when he’s healthy, the problem is that he’s hurt often. Who’s going to replace him? How much will it cost? 
 

Lawson has been underwhelming, sure but he’s also coming back from a major injury. How much to replace him? 
 

Can you replace berrios for 5 mil or less?

The problem with Davis is he misses every other game, not that he's hot garbage when he's healthy. He's not worth $10MM.

Lawson isn't worth $15MM. He's been injury-prone himself, and the team simply doesn't need him. They didn't draft 2 DEs to keep the veteran. That's like flushing those 2 picks in the garbage. Moreover, those 2 picks are each higher than any comp pick the Jets might get for losing Lawson in March of 2024.

Berrios was a $2MM player until he got hot at the end of 2021. This is what happens to players whose value plummets as his has. Right now he's a sure-handed punt returner. That has value, but it isn't $5MM. And what comp pick do you think they'd get if he signs elsewhere? The upside is a late 6th rounder, but more likely a late 7th rounder if he signs for $2-3MM elsewhere.

I'll reiterate: you don't use $30MM in 2023 to buy 3 late picks in 2025.

You want an extra late 5th-6th round pick? Trade down 2 picks in round 2 or 4 picks in round 3. Neither of those very minor moves is worth 1/7 of the team's salary cap; teams trade down plenty more than that all the time. 

[BurntDice]

44 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The problem with Davis is he misses every other game, not that he's hot garbage when he's healthy. He's not worth $10MM.

Lawson isn't worth $15MM. He's been injury-prone himself, and the team simply doesn't need him. They didn't draft 2 DEs to keep the veteran. That's like flushing those 2 picks in the garbage. Moreover, those 2 picks are each higher than any comp pick the Jets might get for losing Lawson in March of 2024.

Berrios was a $2MM player until he got hot at the end of 2021. This is what happens to players whose value plummets as his has. Right now he's a sure-handed punt returner. That has value, but it isn't $5MM. And what comp pick do you think they'd get if he signs elsewhere? The upside is a late 6th rounder, but more likely a late 7th rounder if he signs for $2-3MM elsewhere.

I'll reiterate: you don't use $30MM in 2023 to buy 3 late picks in 2025.

You want an extra late 5th-6th round pick? Trade down 2 picks in round 2 or 4 picks in round 3. Neither of those very minor moves is worth 1/7 of the team's salary cap; teams trade down plenty more than that all the time. 

Look at the players in the salary ranges compared to the guys you want to cut. 
 

Below are the wrs. None of those guys not on rookie deals are better than Davis. The wr market is very expensive. Who’s going to replace him? You also want to cut the #4 wr. We’ll be left with Wilson, Moore and who? Mims? I also added the 2023 free agent wrs. Who’s your guy?

[Ron Rico]

12 hours ago, AFJF said:

 

 

This is actually an option? Let them all go. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, BurntDice said:

Look at the players in the salary ranges compared to the guys you want to cut. 
 

Below are the wrs. None of those guys not on rookie deals are better than Davis. The wr market is very expensive. Who’s going to replace him? You also want to cut the #4 wr. We’ll be left with Wilson, Moore and who? Mims? 

This is ridiculous. 

The problem with Davis isn't that he has no talent; it's that he misses 50% of the games. 8.5 games of Davis is not worth $10.5MM.

See, the idea behind cutting them is to use that $ towards improving the team, not to cut them and then bring in nobody.

The team either needs them or the team doesn't need them. The day 3 comp picks they may or may not get for them in the 2025 draft has nothing to do with anything. They're not getting a 4th rounder for any of them. It's debatable whether they'd get a [35th pick in the round] 5th rounder for Davis/Lawson, and whether Berrios would net more than a 7th as a ~$2-3MM WR. 

That's not worth $30MM in 2023. You don't buy late picks with that kind of cash. It's debatable if you even "buy" a day 1-2 pick.

Lawson isn't needed; Berrios isn't needed; they need more than Davis can give them (especially with him now also being a bigger concussion risk than before). 

[BurntDice]

23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This is ridiculous. 

The problem with Davis isn't that he has no talent; it's that he misses 50% of the games. 8.5 games of Davis is not worth $10.5MM.

See, the idea behind cutting them is to use that $ towards improving the team, not to cut them and then bring in nobody.

The team either needs them or the team doesn't need them. The day 3 comp picks they may or may not get for them in the 2025 draft has nothing to do with anything. They're not getting a 4th rounder for any of them. It's debatable whether they'd get a [35th pick in the round] 5th rounder for Davis/Lawson, and whether Berrios would net more than a 7th as a ~$2-3MM WR. 

That's not worth $30MM in 2023. You don't buy late picks with that kind of cash. It's debatable if you even "buy" a day 1-2 pick.

Lawson isn't needed; Berrios isn't needed; they need more than Davis can give them (especially with him now also being a bigger concussion risk than before). 

I don’t even know if that is true. Look at the guys in the 10 mil range. Davis production this year even with missing games is about the same as all of them if not better. I get that the idea is to bring in replacement with the cap space saved. I brought up Davis because guys in his salary range are about the same as him or worse even with his injury history 
 

The one guy who kind of intrigues me is Paris Campbell he usually lines up in the slot and is having a decent year. Loved him coming out potential Berrios replacement 

[pointman]

13 hours ago, AFJF said:

 

 

[pointman]

Berrios is incredibly unremarkable for a guy who looks like he is moving twice as fast as everyone else. I guess the short limbs moving frantically compared to everyone elses gazelle like strides is the real culprit. Shame on me for falling for that optical illusion. In closing, he suck.

[SR24]

I wouldn’t lose sleep if we cut all of them

[pointman]

Lawson needs to be on the first Grey Hound out of Florham Park, or he can catch a ride with Ashtyn when his mom comes to grab him in her Rav4.

[choon328]

13 hours ago, AFJF said:

 

 

Realistically, Berrios and Davis are the only two that will be gone. Mosley will get a 2 or 3 yr extension to lower his number. 

[Beerfish]

After the last two games mosley should be he first guy out of town.