Has there ever been a game Bob Saleh or anyone on this coaching staff outcoached the opponent?

[FactsOnly]

[Biggs]

The Cleveland game.

[FactsOnly]

3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Cleveland game.

they got thoroughly outcoached and outplayed

FLUKE onsides

[RedBeardedSavage]

First Bills game.

[Barry McCockinner]

without knowing any of the behind the scenes details of what coaching moves or decisions were being made this is impossible for any fan to accurately know. all you can do is sit around and scream about how bad the coaches are because we lost games if that makes you feel better.

show me how you would possibly quantify this?

[Ben Had]

[SayNoToDMC]

There where some games with very good game plans. In particular they made Josh Allen look pedestrian for 2 games. MLF and the offense on the other hand is another story. 

[DoubleDown]

Chicago game in 2022 and Cincinnati game in 2021 come to mind.

Agree that this is an impossible question to answer objectively and can't really be quantified.

[JetPotato]

21 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

without knowing any of the behind the scenes details of what coaching moves or decisions were being made this is impossible for any fan to accurately know. all you can do is sit around and scream about how bad the coaches are because we lost games if that makes you feel better.

show me how you would possibly quantify this?

Real-time game plan adjustments are fairly easy to spot. I actually thought defensively, they were pretty adept at this, but offensively non-existent.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

I thought they consistently made good half time adjustments on the defensive side of the ball. 

Offense was always a mess. 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Real-time game plan adjustments are fairly easy to spot. I actually thought defensively, they were pretty adept at this, but offensively non-existent.

feel free to point out some examples from games this year where opposing coaches made real time game plan adjustments. let us know what the game plan was prior to the game, when they adjusted and why. Explain how these adjustments worked.

You say it's fairly easy to spot, so I don't expect you to have much issue providing these details.

[Integrity28]

Buffalo. Showed the league that they could be run on, was a problem for them for a good month.

Any more clown posts?

[FactsOnly]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Buffalo. Showed the league that they could be run on, was a problem for them for a good month.

Any more clown posts?

1 game in 2 years IF you can even say that

they got 2 picks off JA in the redzone

6 straight losses lmfaooo

keep going BOZO and we'll get more 

[FactsOnly]

10 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

feel free to point out some examples from games this year where opposing coaches made real time game plan adjustments. let us know what the game plan was prior to the game, when they adjusted and why. Explain how these adjustments worked.

You say it's fairly easy to spot, so I don't expect you to have much issue providing these details.

how bout every second half of the season chap

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Tierney asked Tiki what he thought Saleh's top verifiable coaching traits were.

Tiki said he no idea.

The bottom line for me is Saleh is not a stone cold competitor. 

Losing doesn't kill him, erode him to the core like it does with Pat Riley, Brady, MJ, Belichick, and all the other insane GOAT athletes / coaches.

Saleh will always be content peddling his "PVO", "process", "progress", "developing these young men" and other nebulous, unmeasurable goals.

Just look at Mike Tomlin.  16 years in Pittsburgh.  Zero losing seasons.  Not one.  Would have been easy for him to make excuses this year with Trubisky and rookie Pickett.  But the dude is just driven. 

Tomlin comes across sort of like an a--hole at times, but he gets results. 

Whereas Saleh is your prototypical "players' coach" who runs "camp cupcake" and wants everybody to love him and be his buddy.  Never challenges his players, never disciplines / reprimands them, and is basically a yes man to management and ownership.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

43 minutes ago, Ben Had said:

The "fire" and "energy" you saw on the sidelines in SF was just for show.

Saleh is perfectly content with this team never accomplishing a thing as long as his checks from Woody don't bounce.

He just said yesterday his "only goal" was to leave 1JD in better shape than it was when he arrived. 

I mean the man he was replacing was Adam Gase, so yeah, not exactly the most challenging task on the planet.

 

[JetPotato]

24 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

feel free to point out some examples from games this year where opposing coaches made real time game plan adjustments. let us know what the game plan was prior to the game, when they adjusted and why. Explain how these adjustments worked.

You say it's fairly easy to spot, so I don't expect you to have much issue providing these details.

I'll review my notes and game tapes as soon as I get off from work ?

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

I'll review my notes and game tapes as soon as I get off from work ?

pretty much what I expected.

[Barry McCockinner]

We only have access to so much information as fans. We want to think we know way more than we do but we don't. 

larp on fellas

[BigRy56]

The Green Bay, Buffalo Round 1, and Chicago games jump out to me off the top of my head as well coached and executed gameplans. I know we're all down on Saleh at the moment, but he was a COTY candidate for 3/4 of the season

[Barry McCockinner]

29 minutes ago, FactsOnly said:

how bout every second half of the season chap

feel free to share the facts

• what was the game plan going in?
• what adjustment, specifically, was made?
• why was the adjustment made?
• site examples of the adjustment being successful.

saying "they made adjustments" is saying nothing at all. details or you know nothing, which is true and fine.

[JetPotato]

18 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

pretty much what I expected.

You're right. Coaches don't make adjustments ?

I'll circle back when I have more than a few seconds at a time.

[Copernicus]

For 3/4 of  the season I thought we were much better in the second half of games than the first. Adjustments at halftime? Has to count for something. Steelers, Packers, Broncos, Bears, Buffalo (both), Minnesota. All before the epic collapse but second half improvements nonetheless

[DoubleDown]

For the first half of the season, the Jets were thoroughly outscoring their opponents in the 4th quarter.  That does speak to good coaching.

[carlito1171]

They had a good plan for the Packers

[Barry McCockinner]

1 minute ago, JetPotato said:

You're right. Coaches don't make adjustments ?

I'll circle back when I have more than a few seconds at a time.

Don't straw man me. I never said coaches don't make adjustments and you know it.

What I said is that fans don't know the details. We like to pretend we do but we don't. It's just not publicly available information. We don't know the details of game plans. We don't know what sort of in game adjustments are being made.

We can make educated guesses over the long term based on results but outside of something obvious like clock management there's very little in terms of coaching decisions and adjustments that fans can know from watching a game. I would LOVE for them to make the coaches communications over the headsets available to fans, if even from previous seasons so we could gain more of this sort of information.

[JetPotato]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Don't straw man me. I never said coaches don't make adjustments and you know it.

What I said is that fans don't know the details. We like to pretend we do but we don't. It's just not publicly available information. We don't know the details of game plans. We don't know what sort of in game adjustments are being made.

We can make educated guesses over the long term based on results but outside of something obvious like clock management there's very little in terms of coaching decisions and adjustments that fans can know from watching a game. I would LOVE for them to make the coaches communications over the headsets available to fans, if even from previous seasons so we could gain more of this sort of information.

Ok, while I'm pooping, I have a few minutes to think and a very obvious one jumped at me.

Jets, Pats, first game. Jets lead at halftime, defense is putting a lot of pressure on Jones. Pats switch up offensive game plan and move to much more frequent short, quick throws in an up-tempo style, and shuffle around a couple of offensive linemen. Pats proceed to go on a 16-0 run in the next quarter and a half (in the first half I believe they had 6 points).

Sorry, Cock. Just because you're not adept enough to see in-game changes, doesn't mean some of us can't. It happens every week. Personnel changes and tendencies are there to any observer who is paying attention.

[FactsOnly]

32 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

feel free to share the facts

• what was the game plan going in?
• what adjustment, specifically, was made?
• why was the adjustment made?
• site examples of the adjustment being successful.

saying "they made adjustments" is saying nothing at all. details or you know nothing, which is true and fine.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/jets_offense_averaged_27_inches_per_play_in_second_half_vs_patriots/s1_13132_38152859

Quote

That's pretty bad. But what's much, much worse is that 101 of those yards came in the first half.

That's right: New York had two yards of total offense in the second half. The team ran 26 offensive plays to gain those two yards (aka six feet), which means they averaged 2.77 inches per play.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/2nd-half-points-per-game

you know NOTHING about the game of football

Quote

"I just know that they were running double-end cuts to the field every single time," Bynum said. "A lot of the big plays they got was that route, in-breaking from No. 1. That's a tough route for the corner, especially for his outside leverage, so I just shuffled in with the quarterback's eyes and as soon as he came off of No. 2, jumped into window No. 1 and that was the play."

NOTHINGGGGG

[Jetluv58]

17 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Ok, while I'm pooping, I have a few minutes to think and a very obvious one jumped at me.

Jets, Pats, first game. Jets lead at halftime, defense is putting a lot of pressure on Jones. Pats switch up offensive game plan and move to much more frequent short, quick throws in an up-tempo style, and shuffle around a couple of offensive linemen. Pats proceed to go on a 16-0 run in the next quarter and a half (in the first half I believe they had 6 points).

Sorry, Cock. Just because you're not adept enough to see in-game changes, doesn't mean some of us can't. It happens every week. Personnel changes and tendencies are there to any observer who is paying attention.

You’re being kind of a dick.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, FactsOnly said:

1 game in 2 years IF you can even say that

they got 2 picks off JA in the redzone

6 straight losses lmfaooo

keep going BOZO and we'll get more 

You asked for “a game”, you dufus.

[JetPotato]

6 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

You’re being kind of a dick.

I made a half-thread adjustment

[FactsOnly]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You asked for “a game”, you dufus.

the jokes just write themselves

[shawn306]

I mean seriously how do we actually know. Is it good adjustments and game plans only when they win ? First Buffalo game they totally outcoached the Bills. Cleveland game with fake punt and onside kick. I'm sure there are some more out there.

[IndianaJet]

1 hour ago, FactsOnly said:

 

they got 2 picks off JA in the redzone

 

 

nope...just one.

The second INT was not in the red zone.

Prolly should change your name to "FactsOnly Some of the Time"

[carlito1171]

I agree we'll never know the intricacies of the game plan and what was said pregame, halftime, etc.....and as fans we think we know more than we do about how teams gameplan week in and week out....

The only thing I will say is that if you understand alignments, coverages, and route concepts you can see certain things and what team adjustments are made to stop certain things.....I can pick up on some of these details during the game and I'm sure if I actually cared enough to watch the games a 2nd time I can pick out certain things and adjustments from 1st half to 2nd half....

But largely....we as fans think we know more than we do...