Someone offer some hope on the 2024 OL

[football guy]

5 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

You're thinking Fuaga in the top 10?  I don't think I see it.  I think he will be more back half/day 2 guy that might eventually end up at G.  You might be right, but I see him as neither safe nor exciting.  Going that high he should at least be one or the other.

I think Fuaga winds up going much higher than he's being mocked. Very similar situation to Darnell Wright last year where he's probably a better athlete than given credit for and winds up vaulting up boards (Fuaga is a plus-character guy which makes the case easier for him too). Whether or not that's top 10 we'll see. I also don't see us drafting 7th. I think we were in a serious rut on the 5 game losing streak and it would not shock me the least bit if we wind up winning 2/3 of the final 4 to close out the season. That could mean we wind up drafting anywhere between 8-15. 

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

Big fuaga fan 

Hal vaitai is physically done (and more of a guard at this point)

Wes schweitzer is basically done too 

Becton can get more than a 1 year deal on the market. Way more probably. And I don't know if they even want him back. His pass pro remains an issue 

 

I haven't been keeping tabs on guys, but Vaitai is the kind of guy I expect them to look for on the open market. Former starter who can play G/T. Same goes for Wes- not sure if he'll make the roster but likely will want a G/C as the backup. 

I don't disagree that a team may be willing to sign Becton to a longer term, but I have a hard time believing he'll get more than what Austin Jackson just got (3 years, $36 million/13 million guaranteed). If he can stay healthy on a one year deal AND play well, he can make a case for $20M APY. That may tempt him to stay on a 1-year deal (figure around $10-15 million guaranteed). 

[Beerfish]

5 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Brick, Alan Faneca, Nick Mangold, Brandon Moore, Damien Woody

Are you trying to make me sad?

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, NYJCAP2 said:

 argue for McGovern at C & T-ippy at G over any one of those guys at G

before McGovern got hurt he was PFF's lowest rated starting C 

for whatever that's worth 

[THE BARON]

4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Are you trying to make me sad?

naw... just thinking of better times.  and they can come again if jd keeps his head out of his ass

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, THE BARON said:

naw... just thinking of better times.  and they can come again if jd keeps his head out of his ass

Any time in the past the jets have had success they have had good to great olines.  That is why I bleat about over drafting them in position and numbers each year at draft time.

[THE BARON]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Any time in the past the jets have had success they have had good to great olines.  That is why I bleat about over drafting them in position and numbers each year at draft time.

myself as well.  the most important unit on an NFL team is the offensive line.  I insist that they double dip in the draft on offensive line in the coming draft.  their first round pick on a pure OT and another pick on a versatile lineman that has the leverage to play on the inside and ability to play on the outside if need be.

Becton has been awful especially against speedy edge rushers and that does not even take into account that he has not been reliable.  AVT is an A+ guy *when* he is on the filed.  Only a fool would gamble that AVT will become an iron man on the inside for them.  Tippman looks super promising, but their other inside lineman would not even be solid back-ups on most rosters.

They need three new starters on the line.  They can add them so long as they understand how critical it is.

Now watch them draft a ******* DT

[BCJet]

4 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

No what's silly is you are not looking at what a terrible job JD has done in developing a sustainable OL. Yeah injuries happen. All teams go through it but JD had reached for some terrible stiffs for the OL since becoming GM.  His FA starters/depth and draft choices for depth on the OL have been nauseating.  

2023 - Tippman and Carter Warren: opening day starter and a developemental player

2022 - Max Mitchell: developmental player

2021 - AVT opening day starter

2020 - Becton and Cameron Clark: opening day starter who has been injured and a developmental player who also had a freak injury

I get that JD has whiffed on guys like Duane Brown and Ryan Kahil but he also hit on Fant and Connor McGovern and found guys like Nate Herbig, so to say its been a terrible job is just not correct.  If he came into a situation with a decent WR room and secondary and pass rush and all he had to do was build the OL then it would be ok to say its been bad.  But he had to basically rebuild an entire team and has built an elite pass rush, elite secondary and just had too many injuries to keep the OL functioning at a high level.

On top of that, when people critizie our picks, they rarely say what JD could have done.  I didnt want mcdonald this year and you could easily argue we shouldnt have swapped with GB but Broderick Jones was off the board - it sucks but he was.  Also should we have taken Ikem Ekwonu instead of GW?  I dont think so.  Should we have taken Cole Strange instead of Jermaine Johnson?  Hes made good picks, and in one position group they havent worked out as well as we would like - thats it

[Beerfish]

15 minutes ago, BCJet said:

2023 - Tippman and Carter Warren: opening day starter and a developemental player

2022 - Max Mitchell: developmental player

2021 - AVT opening day starter

2020 - Becton and Cameron Clark: opening day starter who has been injured and a developmental player who also had a freak injury

I get that JD has whiffed on guys like Duane Brown and Ryan Kahil but he also hit on Fant and Connor McGovern and found guys like Nate Herbig, so to say its been a terrible job is just not correct.  If he came into a situation with a decent WR room and secondary and pass rush and all he had to do was build the OL then it would be ok to say its been bad.  But he had to basically rebuild an entire team and has built an elite pass rush, elite secondary and just had too many injuries to keep the OL functioning at a high level.

On top of that, when people critizie our picks, they rarely say what JD could have done.  I didnt want mcdonald this year and you could easily argue we shouldnt have swapped with GB but Broderick Jones was off the board - it sucks but he was.  Also should we have taken Ikem Ekwonu instead of GW?  I dont think so.  Should we have taken Cole Strange instead of Jermaine Johnson?  Hes made good picks, and in one position group they havent worked out as well as we would like - thats it

Douglas has tried to build and oline i have always given him credit for that, but he has not succeeded and in the end for a GM results are what matters.

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

Is Alt related to the former kc ol Joe Alt from the 80s/90s?

[#27TheDominator]

8 minutes ago, JetsfaninNorthHollywood said:

Is Alt related to the former kc ol Joe Alt from the 80s/90s?

John is his father.

[JetsfaninNorthHollywood]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

John is his father.

Damn I feel old, his father was blocking for DeBerg and Okoye then. Time flies

[#27TheDominator]

32 minutes ago, JetsfaninNorthHollywood said:

Damn I feel old, his father was blocking for DeBerg and Okoye then. Time flies

You want to feel old?  Joe is the baby.  The older brother Mark is already finishing up his career overseas after a decade in the NHL.

[Fantasy Island]

20 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

Put together a OL for JD because he’s absolutely horrific at it. It has to be rebuilt and that includes the subs. Thus far, we have Tippman at Center and ABT will be back at G. Do we resign Becton, McGovern, is Lake still on contract? Who do we draft? Who do we sign that’s available in FA? Give the OL coaching job to Obi Wan Kinobe - he’s our only hope. 

I think AVT would stay healthy if he wasn’t moved every other game to a new spot.   JD doesn’t know how to build an OL.

[AFJF]

4 hours ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Anyone with PFF want to post Laken Tomlinson's profile from this year please?

95% of you don’t have him in your plans, yet that will cost anywhere from $6-10M in dead money.

All 22 told me he's been grossly overpaid.

PFF agrees.

Overall grade: 59

RBLK grade: 54.7

PBLK grade: 62.7

Hurries: 27

Sacks: 6

His pass block efficiency of 95.9 grade is the worst of his career.

[AFJF]

Fuaga would be a great addition to this OL.

 

 

[AFJF]

Not sure I've seen a player do this as much as Laken Tomlinson does.  How TF did this dude make it to pro bowls with niners and then become this as a Jet?

 

[NYJCAP2]

40 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Not sure I've seen a player do this as much as Laken Tomlinson does.  How TF did this dude make it to pro bowls with niners and then become this as a Jet?

 

If you’re going to roast the guy, pick a play without incidental tripping.

Hell, that might be a TD without the trip. Everyone hit their reach blocks.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Not sure I've seen a player do this as much as Laken Tomlinson does.  How TF did this dude make it to pro bowls with niners and then become this as a Jet?

 

Get tripped by the guy Becton whiffed on?

[Ecuadorian Jet]

9 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

I'd rather forget you. Thats it.

Dude, I wasn't trying to hurt you. What I tried and failed to covey is that you/we can't depend on AVT as a starter anymore. As a backup, sure. But AVT, sadly, is not a guy, for whatever reasons, that the Jets can rely on to be a starter.

[Maynard13]

59 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Dude, I wasn't trying to hurt you. What I tried and failed to covey is that you/we can't depend on AVT as a starter anymore. As a backup, sure. But AVT, sadly, is not a guy, for whatever reasons, that the Jets can rely on to be a starter.

Your take on AVT is absurd. And no I don't take anything you say personal.  Players get injured. Period. He's had some tough luck.  Doesn't mean he wont be back 100%.

[Maynard13]

4 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

I think AVT would stay healthy if he wasn’t moved every other game to a new spot.   JD doesn’t know how to build an OL.

They definitely  need to make up their minds and leave him at Guard which is his best position, whether its right or left. 

[Maynard13]

7 hours ago, bitonti said:

before McGovern got hurt he was PFF's lowest rated starting C 

for whatever that's worth 

McGovern is done. I doubt he even comes back as a back up. 

[Maynard13]

10 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's cool.  I wonder if the Packers will pick the right one cause they have our 2nd 

Reading is fundamental. Trade back the 1st rounder and get a 2nd rounder in the trade back. 

[CanadaSteve]

On 12/12/2023 at 9:50 PM, JetPotato said:

AVT's spot is RG. Keep him next to Becton. You'll flourish in the run game on that side. Tippmann and his glorious head of hair at C. Looks like LT in Round 1. Just need to find a LG somehow.

We have an LG, and his name is Laken Tomlinson.   Unless you want a roster hole and $10 million in dead money when we have not much to spend in the first place, he is the LEAST of the problems.

[Hex]

What Oline?

[GreenFish]

14 hours ago, AFJF said:

All 22 told me he's been grossly overpaid.

PFF agrees.

Overall grade: 59

RBLK grade: 54.7

PBLK grade: 62.7

Hurries: 27

Sacks: 6

His pass block efficiency of 95.9 grade is the worst of his career.

Better grade than Becton who some people want to franchise.

The poor play by Laken you posted was actually started by Becton completely whiffing on his man.

I think a 3/36 deal is more than reasonable. Some seem to really disagree. 

[Adoni Beast]

13 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

I think AVT would stay healthy if he wasn’t moved every other game to a new spot.   JD doesn’t know how to build an OL.

I was the biggest proponent of moving AVT to RT and I was completely wrong and definitely believe that his injuries are a result of playing a position his body can't handle. 

Move him back to RG or get rid of Lake and put AVT at LG, but no more OT.

[GreenFish]

Just noticed that Spotrac has Becton's potential market value up. 13.9M. So a little off from my guess. They have the wrong year on his FA. So maybe it gets updated and those that want to pay him $20+ might be right. I dont see it. He’s been a below avg LT. He’s an avg RT.

[GreenFish]

23 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Tell a 24 year-old starting LT you want him to take a team-friendly deal, for a coaching staff he hates, so he can further then take a position demotion, to the side that favors his lesser lower leg that's been operated on twice, after clawing his way back into the starting LT job and staying (mostly) healthy in a contract year after the team declined to exercise his 5th year option?

Why not also tell him the deal further contains $0 guaranteed - not even for injury - and then has 3 more successive 1 year team options at $5MM after those first 3 years are up? I mean, so long as we're discussing contract offers he'd never sign.  

He’s not a good starting LT. He’s ok at RT with the potential to be good at RT.

When people on this board were saying Danny Dimes would get $40M, I said that was crazy. I suggested $27ish. I was wrong. I guess it only takes one GM to make an outrageous offer.

[Barton]

Becton has struggled with the rush to his left. His lateral agility has not been what it once was. 

Should be considered at left guard. Let him maul. Requires less athleticism than a left tackle. 

[varjet]

Based on-

1-we can’t assume we will get a FA T

2-Becton is ok-we can win with him

3-Brown, Turner and McGovern are not repeats. 

4-Laken is not great-we can win with him.  Cap hit too great to cut.  

We should-

1-retain Becton, transition tagging if necessary

2-try and restructure Laken or retain

3-draft best T available

4-keep AVT at RG and move to LG in 2025, for long term. 

5-sign at least 1 good FA WR.  
6-find cheaper players on defense

[Jolot]

He may be gone by time we pick but Joe Alt changes the dynamic of the entire line . With him and Tippman they could build like they did with Brick and Mangold. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 12/13/2023 at 1:39 PM, NYJCAP2 said:

Anyone with PFF want to post Laken Tomlinson's profile from this year please?

95% of you don’t have him in your plans, yet that will cost anywhere from $6-10M in dead money.

The dead money is irrelevant because it's already factored in. All that remains is whether they think he's worth paying another $13MM or not.

On 12/13/2023 at 2:00 PM, bitonti said:

Laken is trash but his contract means his job is safe 

His current contract makes him less likely to stick. If he was making half his non-guaranteed upcoming $13MM I think he'd be safer. This was supposed to be his bounce-back year and it clearly hasn't happened.

On 12/13/2023 at 2:56 PM, bitonti said:

this is what should happen but replacing two OT sounds impossible

unless the Jets double dip in the draft

the Seahawks did take Charles Cross and Abraham Lucas (rd 3) in the same draft so there is precedence 

what if the Jets coaches believe in AVT at RT, and believe his injuries are flukes

they are trying out an awful lot of RGs this year, Jake Hanson, Chris Glaser, Xavier Newman 

the Jets could be thinking AVT at RT and just find a RG? 

there's no easy answers. The OL remain a problem 

ideally if the QB play gets better or quicker it helps everything

 

KC replaced both their OTs this past year. Their difficulties are because their WR corps is worse than the Jets who are still starting Allen Lazard as their #2. At least the Jets' excuse is during peak FA time and the draft they didn't know Corey Davis was going to retire about two weeks before the first game. So it's not like a contender could never do such a thing.

And yes, while they clearly weren't an awesome pair from the start, Seattle did start a pair of rookie tackles, had them block for a career bust QB, said bust threw 30 TDs & led the league in completion percentage, and the team made the playoffs with the offense carrying a sorry-ass D that only looked good against Mike White starting with half a rack of broken ribs.

Agree on the rest. While OL overhauls have been done, they're always a challenge and probably most of the time it's attempted it looks bad (like our own prior overhauls). 

[Sperm Edwards]

Some non-Becton FA starters from the 2020 draft class are set to become UFAs, if they aren't extended before others are allowed to make offers:

• Jonah Williams (never lived up to his #11 draft slot, not unlike Becton)
• Tyron Smith (I think Dallas extends him, but if they don't it's just because he hasn't been reliably healthy)
• Robert Hunt (Miami surely extends this recent upper-2nd rounder, and we won't get to see him against a good Jets DL as he's still got a bad hammy & hasn't practiced. Fun fact: first got his driver's license at age 24.)
• Trent Brown (when does that weight catch up to him & his knees?)
• Onwenu (bookend opposite T.Brown)
• Dotson (all I remember is that Jets game when he'd have had his crap pushed in by JJII if not for the refs letting him hold to protect St. Mahomes)
• John Simpson (don't know much about him, other than PFF lists him as surrendering 0 sacks, but 8 penalties)
• Biadasz (don't see Dallas letting him go, though; centers are cheap to keep)
• Damien Lewis (Billions got stupid after a great start, and Homeland was an eyeroll even in season 1, so I haven't watched him the past few years, but he's not untalented)
• Vaitai (a guy doesn't get - and take - a pay cut from $9MM to $3MM in his 20s for playing great, has a bad back now)
• Fant (as I've said plenty, no way he sits in a room with Joe Douglas unless he's desperate)
• Also maybe Driscoll (hasn't been starting, as he's been overshadowed by better starters on an elite OL, but has started some in Philadelphia when needed)

I'd be lying if I said I'd spent any amount of time really focusing on any of them individually, at least outside of Jets games.

There'll be others who maybe are on the trade block or outright released, like plenty expect Bhaktiari to be cut after missing another season.  

Anyway it's not going to be the starting line from this year's all-pro list who's expected to reliably start at that level for at least the next 2-3 seasons.

They may need to draft a tackle, lol.

[Adoni Beast]

2 hours ago, Barton said:

Becton has struggled with the rush to his left. His lateral agility has not been what it once was. 

Should be considered at left guard. Let him maul. Requires less athleticism than a left tackle. 

This isn't the worst idea in the world.

However, with Becton looking for a payday for 2024 or 2025 (depending on what happens this offseason - franchise tag etc) I doubt he agrees to this with any team.