Douglas and Saleh comments on Huff

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, Barton said:

JD screwed up his evaluation of Huff. No chance Huff turns down 13 mill a year 12 months ago. 

12 months ago he was a part time player, a sack specialist with 3.5 sacks as his best season.  
Plus it sounds like he would have turned down that deal, he wanted every down money.  

[varjet]

The Jets used the Huff money to fill two holes at OT and at WR.  A necessary trade off.   They saw it coming by drafting McD. 

[jamesr]

Last year WMD played in 184 snaps and contributed 9 solo tackles, 3 sacks and 1 FF. Huff played 480 snaps and contributed 19 solo tackles, 10 sacks and 0 FF.

I know these things are not linear, and you can't just assume X / Y / Z will happen by playing a guy more. But to look at the effectiveness of each player on a like for like basis, if we project WMDs contribution up to the same snap count level as Huff you get the following : 24 solo tackles, 8 sacks. (I'll ignore the FF for the sake of the argument here). Oh, and WMD contributed 2x the snaps on ST into the bargain.

If WMD had played 50% of the snaps and racked up 8 sacks we'd have been wetting ourselves in excitement. And complaining he wasn't seeing the field enough. Also consider - this was Huff's 4th year with us vs. WMDs 1st year. I'll be very interested to see how WMD does in Year 2 vs Year 1, both in terms of snap count and production. As I'm sure much of the board will be. And I'm sure we'll hear about every time Huff does anything in Philly.   

 

 

[OilfieldJet]

55 minutes ago, Sarge4Tide said:

He was a perfect fit and did great.  But, we can't pretend the salary cap doesn't exist.  He was never going to re-sign here for the money we could afford to pay him.  Everybody knew that.

Agree, MacDonald is the next man up.

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, OilfieldJet said:

Agree, as long as MacDonald can do the job.

I doubt he can produce the same numbers Huff did. But I do think the DL as a whole can replicate the numbers they did with JJ taking a leap. Q in his prime. Kinlaw in a good situation. Etc.

[bicketybam]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

When he drafted Huffs “replacement” Huff had seasons of 2, 2 and 3.5 sacks.

Think that one through

And he didn't get his first sack in 2023 until the 5th game of the season. He had 8 going into the meaningless Pats game where he ended up padding his sack total with 2 more. Elite pass rusher! 

[JustInFudge]

Will McDonlad is going to have a JJ like offseason that will translate into an incredible year 2 and nobody will care they let Huff walk.

[DoubleDown]

I've been saying it since last offseason.

Of course the Jets knew they had an UDFA gem.  Of course the Jets tried to lock him up early for cheap money.

Huff bet on himself and won.  He took a risk and moved forward under the assumption that his value would only go up with each passing season.  Not everyone will sign a cheaper contract early if they feel they are an ascending player.  They take a risk and bet that they can maximize their value on the open market when they become free agents.  That's exactly what Huff did.

Hopefully we can put this "Douglas failed to lock up Huff" narrative to rest.  It takes two to tango.  Sometimes it's just out of your hands.

[chirorob]

10 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I find it somewhat ironic not paying him because he’s ‘only’ a situational pass rusher but then investing a premium 1st round pick on his replacement, another situational pass rusher.

 

Who is even lighter and less able to stand up to the run

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

8 hours ago, AFJF said:

But Huff wouldn't have been happy with his snap counts here.

And both JFM and Clowney are better all around players.

Do you think McDonald will be?  

[fullblast]

10 hours ago, Ghost said:

Pretty much. Makes zero sense. McDonald didn’t do sh*t last year either. If you draft someone in the 1st, they better contribute. 

To be fair, he had 4 sacks while playing only 16% of the snaps. I thought he showed something.

[AFJF]

8 minutes ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Do you think McDonald will be?  

I believe he will be.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Huff didn't want to stay as a situational pass rusher, though. You can't force him to sign an extension, and sometimes it's just not a fit with where the player wants to be. Tagging him would've given him a 25% raise over the top offer he got as a UFA, only for 1 season more, couldn't have manipulated his cap number down, and oh yeah he would've been miserable here (potentially holding out all summer long, only returning around Sept 1st just in time to take their money but not really provide value until he was in game shape a month or so later). 

I doubt think the goal, in drafting McDonald, was to merely find another situational pass rusher as some even-swap for Huff. Will he work out as even that (never mind more full time like JJII)? Who knows, but even with their DL rotation I'm sure they would prefer someone whom they felt only had situational value, since no one would prefer such a thing. Almost half his snaps as a senior he supposedly lined up opposite if not outright inside the tackle. 

It also could have been a different timeline than people are thinking (myself included). Could be they tried to lock him up; he refused because he thought he could get his dollars up, so they RFA-tagged him; tried again after no one came calling to give up a 2nd rounder for him, and still he didn't bite; faced with losing him and no one in the pipeline - Huff and Lawson both had just 1 contract year remaining - and JJII not exactly setting the world on fire as a rookie (prior to the '23 season or even offseason, he was almost universally viewed as the lone "miss" among their first 4 draft '22 draft picks - edge rusher became an option in the 1st round of the draft.

None of us were in the room, so who knows...

I'm not actually that upset with the Huff situation.  I'm more upset to see history repeating itself, except first round pick replaces an undrafted free agent.

(Acknowledging I don't know the Jets full plans), where are McDonald's snaps going to come from if JFM and Clowney are core parts of the rotation, along with JJ?  It becomes a math equation. 

In this scenario (the one I view as more realistic than cutting JFM), JD invested a first round pick on a situational pass rusher for a win now team.  A guy who wouldn't be in line to be a full time Edge until at least year 3.

Yes, we saved money on Huff by drafting McDonald but not as much as others are saying because we still needed to go out and pay up to $15M per year on Mike Williams.  Money just got shifted from one need to another.  Would have much preferred a strategy that makes better use of our first round picks where first round, first year WRs have the best batting average in the NFL over the past several years.

Lots of us will be shaking our heads if McDonald plays 20% of the snaps this year.  That is NOT a good use of a first round pick and should be reserved for situations where the first round pick is proving to be a bust.  McDonald only got better as last year moved forward.  

[Dupe]

I’m surprised this continues to get discussed.  I guess because we all enjoyed Huff so much.  It’s strictly strategic allocation of cap dollars.  You can’t pay all the successful players you’d like when they are ready to cash in on free agency.  There’s no need to tell you all this because you of course know.   I’m glad we extended Q and I’m excited about the talent we will have for day 1.  I can see the logic in short incentive based contracts and just a few guaranteed ones for core players.  The GM is making the right moves. 

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, Dupe said:

I’m surprised this continues to get discussed.  I guess because we all enjoyed Huff so much.  It’s strictly strategic allocation of cap dollars.  You can’t pay all the successful players you’d like when they are ready to cash in on free agency.  There’s no need to tell you all this because you of course know.   I’m glad we extended Q and I’m excited about the talent we will have for day 1.  I can see the logic in short incentive based contracts and just a few guaranteed ones for core players.  The GM is making the right moves. 

The problem here really isn't Huff walking at the end of his deal.  The problem is the Jets made no effort to trade him prior to the trade deadline last season. 

They evidently KNEW he was going to walk, so why not start trying to sell him off the moment Rodgers went down?  Makes no sense that we didn't end up sellers, especially for a team that doesn't have a 2nd rounder.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

9 minutes ago, AFJF said:

I believe he will be.

I feel much better :).

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The problem here really isn't Huff walking at the end of his deal.  The problem is the Jets made no effort to trade him prior to the trade deadline last season. 

They evidently KNEW he was going to walk, so why not start trying to sell him off the moment Rodgers went down?  Makes no sense.  

Well the Jets were clearly showing they were this well oiled machine after 'dismantling the Giants on their way to a 4-3 record at the trade deadline'.

And for those who respond the Jets had Rodgers on his way back and were making this push for the playoffs, those posters would be absolutely right as evidenced from all those 'support a playoff push moves' (WR, OL) the Jets made at the deadline.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

Well the Jets were clearly showing they were this well oiled machine after dismantling the Giants on their way to a 4-3 record record at the trade deadline.

And for those who respond the Jets had Rodgers on his way back and were making this push for the playoffs, those posters would be absolutely right as evidenced from all those 'support a playoff push moves' (WR, OL) the Jets made at the deadline.  

 

 

 

Exactly.  NFL teams are becoming more like MLB teams at the deadline:  You're either a buyer or seller.  The Jets operated like neither.  Standing pat was the dumbest possible move there - you need to pick one lane or the other. 

Jets gonna Jet, as usual.

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Exactly.  NFL teams are becoming more like MLB teams at the deadline:  You're either a buyer or seller.  The Jets operated like neither.  Standing pat was the dumbest possible move there - you need to pick one lane or the other. 

Jets gonna Jet, as usual.

The move to keep Huff at the deadline was incongruent with the decision to stand pat on everything else.

You pick a strategy (playoff push or no) and then make moves to support the strategy.

This isn't rocket science.  I recently gave JD very high marks for a smart (cohesive) plan this offseason but I can't just support all the moves he has made.  Quite frankly, he hasn't earned that level of benefit of the doubt.

I also wrote that I believe JD has an openness to learn from his mistakes, something we should all be rooting for rather than defending his mistakes.  Saleh on the other hand seems much more rigid.  

[Jets723]

12 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Anyone paying attention knew Huff was a goner the moment the McDonald pick was in last year, regardless of the system.

Agreed.

[Ghost]

23 minutes ago, fullblast said:

To be fair, he had 4 sacks while playing only 16% of the snaps. I thought he showed something.

3 sacks but I do agree. My question is why draft someone when you have Huff. We could’ve easily drafted a playmaker last year and extended Huff. That should’ve been the goal. 

[fullblast]

19 minutes ago, Ghost said:

3 sacks but I do agree. My question is why draft someone when you have Huff. We could’ve easily drafted a playmaker last year and extended Huff. That should’ve been the goal. 

I don't think Huff enjoyed this system and wanted to leave, but all we can do is speculate.

[batman10023]

11 hours ago, Mr. Rogers said:

Huff got a 3 year 51m deal. McDonald will make 4m a year, roughly. 

Ignoring the fact that Huff got some void years and going just off AAV, that's 13m a year savings. If McDonald is even close, that may be worth it. Considering that it's rumored we'd sign Clowney for around 10m, which would replace Huffs sack production along with better run coverage (and another body for the rotation) and you could argue it IS worth it.

In actuality I'm disappointed we let Huff walk too, mainly because he is home grown. But in terms of paying and drafting the "premium" positions, and roster savings, this is how GMs operate now

this is not fully logical.  because sure we save a bunch of money with McDonald but we could have drafted someone else and not resigned/signed another expensive player (i.e. stud WR instead of having to pay up for a WR in the free agency).

hard to not say that JD got played with the trade of AR.  and his pick hopefully works out but it wasn't worth it year 1

[Mr. Rogers]

5 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

this is not fully logical.  because sure we save a bunch of money with McDonald but we could have drafted someone else and not resigned/signed another expensive player (i.e. stud WR instead of having to pay up for a WR in the free agency).

hard to not say that JD got played with the trade of AR.  and his pick hopefully works out but it wasn't worth it year 1

I did say that in another post shortly after. I merely said this was "how GMs think".

To be fair, savings for one position can always equate to spending on another, and the general logic is that "premium" positions offer the most savings. If you're 100% confident you can hit on some DE prospect, that frees up money for WR or whatever else. The real question is if JD really thinks McDonald is 100%, because it's pretty clear JSN (and others) were. I get your point, but the main thing is hitting on the pick to derive contract value, as opposed to 1 position vs another

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I'm not actually that upset with the Huff situation.  I'm more upset to see history repeating itself, except first round pick replaces an undrafted free agent.

(Acknowledging I don't know the Jets full plans), where are McDonald's snaps going to come from if JFM and Clowney are core parts of the rotation, along with JJ?  It becomes a math equation. 

In this scenario (the one I view as more realistic than cutting JFM), JD invested a first round pick on a situational pass rusher for a win now team.  A guy who wouldn't be in line to be a full time Edge until at least year 3.

Yes, we saved money on Huff by drafting McDonald but not as much as others are saying because we still needed to go out and pay up to $15M per year on Mike Williams.  Money just got shifted from one need to another.  Would have much preferred a strategy that makes better use of our first round picks where first round, first year WRs have the best batting average in the NFL over the past several years.

Lots of us will be shaking our heads if McDonald plays 20% of the snaps this year.  That is NOT a good use of a first round pick and should be reserved for situations where the first round pick is proving to be a bust.  McDonald only got better as last year moved forward.  

Well you can be upset about it, but short of offering a 3.5-sack part-time player a contract in the $15-20MM/year range, what is it you prefer they'd have done about it?

Particularly after a career-best season, nobody wanted to get rid of Huff -- not the fans, not the GM, and not the coaches.

This was the edge rusher list heading into the draft, in the order of playing time:

1. Lawson, coming off a bounce-back year (he played well, but tbh even Zach's '23 season would be a bounce-back year compared to Lawson's '21 season). One non-guaranteed year left at $15MM.
2. JFM, whose snap count was almost as high as Lawson's, but there was some more separation when factoring in playing opposite or outside the tackle. He's fine; not great, not terrible, but is paid like a must-start player (albeit with no guaranteed $ remaining).
3. Huff, who allegedly was turning down extension offers that would not only pay him as a full-time player but have that full-time pay influence the coaches playing him full-time (if he was extended in the $8-10MM/year range, as many of us - myself included - wished they'd done) then it's a lot easier for the coaches to keep using him situationally-only without creating a rift between them and the FO. 
4. JJII, coming off a pretty tepid rookie season. Low snap count, and didn't separate himself at all when he was in there. Moreover, as he started getting more snaps beginning with that KOR loss to New England, he got to the QB zero times. Was probably - at that point - viewed as more of a run-stopping end who could occasionally get the random coverage sack. Thus far he wasn't looking like a well-spent 1st round pick (especially compared to the other 3 high picks they made that year).
5. Clemons, also coming off a just-ok rookie season (despite the glorious memes), got about as many snaps as JJII, and didn't regularly bring much in terms of a pass rush off the edge. 

Further consider, the idea was to have more of a passing attack, and wanted to have that solid pass rush to help seal wins. Of course that didn't happen with the Rodgers injury, which itself followed the WR2 retiring, but that was months later.

So:

• Lawson was a UFA after the season.
• Huff was a UFA after the season.
• JFM is a well-rounded edge but isn't an offense-changing pass rusher. 
• The future was JJII and Clemons, neither of whom had distinguished himself as a serious pressuring/sacking threat off the edge.
• They had a QB, 3 starting WRs, and two TEs all set as of draft time.
• On offense they could've used a long-term WR or an OT (guards/centers lose the 5th year option because they're not worth OT transition tag type money); one such OT went in our original slot, in case someone here didn't notice, but he didn't distinguish himself as a rookie either and iirc got benched twice: once to start the season, and again during the season. Anyway this wasn't like Parcells passing on HOFers Orlando Pace and Walter Jones to draft a slow-starting James Farrior & 3rd-7th rounders (after de facto passing on Peyton Manning in the first place).

If McDonald plays only 20% of the snaps this year, you start to think he's an outright bust and not merely poor allocation of 1st round resources. It's too early yet to call him anything like that; I mean, JJII only played 27% of the snaps as a rookie himself and now everyone loves him, and Huff gave little reason to pull him off the field in expected passing situations, and JJII solidified starting on the blind side. 

We'll see. Whatever slot he was expected to go (lower than 15), he's very much a plus athlete and looks to have an x-factor to him. Will that materialize beyond flashes? I don't know; watch the games to find out. 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Once again, I watched sack the QB 2, 2 & 3.5 times those 3 seasons.  He bet on himself and had his one 10 sack season.  Good move.  
In McDonald the lope is he’s more than a passing down lineman.  He played the run well in college and rushed the QB well.  He was drafted to be a better all around player, not to be a lesser player

You're being disingenuous what you say all you saw from Huff was a 2,2 & 3.5 sack guy.  He was one of the - if not the the most disruptive player on the field when he played.

Will McD's turn out to be better? I sure hope so.  It's possible he can be as explosive off the edge and be stout against the run.  That would make him a perennial all-pro and would be amazing.

But it's highly unlikely he will - just based on what I've seen from Huff and how few players I've seen have his type of impact.  McD's can still be a good player and a solid pro and never be as good as Huff was.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

You're being disingenuous what you say all you saw from Huff was a 2,2 & 3.5 sack guy.  He was one of the - if not the the most disruptive player on the field when he played.

Will McD's turn out to be better? I sure hope so.  It's possible he can be as explosive off the edge and be stout against the run.  That would make him a perennial all-pro and would be amazing.

But it's highly unlikely he will - just based on what I've seen from Huff and how few players I've seen have his type of impact.  McD's can still be a good player and a solid pro and never be as good as Huff was.

What makes you think it's highly unlikely? Based of his few snaps in his rookie season? You've seen enough to determine? 

[OtherwiseHappyinLife]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Well you can be upset about it, but short of offering a 3.5-sack part-time player a contract in the $15-20MM/year range, what is it you prefer they'd have done about it?

Particularly after a career-best season, nobody wanted to get rid of Huff -- not the fans, not the GM, and not the coaches.

This was the edge rusher list heading into the draft, in the order of playing time:

1. Lawson, coming off a bounce-back year (he played well, but tbh even Zach's '23 season would be a bounce-back year compared to Lawson's '21 season). One non-guaranteed year left at $15MM.
2. JFM, whose snap count was almost as high as Lawson's, but there was some more separation when factoring in playing opposite or outside the tackle. He's fine; not great, not terrible, but is paid like a must-start player (albeit with no guaranteed $ remaining).
3. Huff, who allegedly was turning down extension offers that would not only pay him as a full-time player but have that full-time pay influence the coaches playing him full-time (if he was extended in the $8-10MM/year range, as many of us - myself included - wished they'd done) then it's a lot easier for the coaches to keep using him situationally-only without creating a rift between them and the FO. 
4. JJII, coming off a pretty tepid rookie season. Low snap count, and didn't separate himself at all when he was in there. Moreover, as he started getting more snaps beginning with that KOR loss to New England, he got to the QB zero times. Was probably - at that point - viewed as more of a run-stopping end who could occasionally get the random coverage sack. Thus far he wasn't looking like a well-spent 1st round pick (especially compared to the other 3 high picks they made that year).
5. Clemons, also coming off a just-ok rookie season (despite the glorious memes), got about as many snaps as JJII, and didn't regularly bring much in terms of a pass rush off the edge. 

Further consider, the idea was to have more of a passing attack, and wanted to have that solid pass rush to help seal wins. Of course that didn't happen with the Rodgers injury, which itself followed the WR2 retiring, but that was months later.

So:

• Lawson was a UFA after the season.
• Huff was a UFA after the season.
• JFM is a well-rounded edge but isn't an offense-changing pass rusher. 
• The future was JJII and Clemons, neither of whom had distinguished himself as a serious pressuring/sacking threat off the edge.
• They had a QB, 3 starting WRs, and two TEs all set as of draft time.
• On offense they could've used a long-term WR or an OT (guards/centers lose the 5th year option because they're not worth OT transition tag type money); one such OT went in our original slot, in case someone here didn't notice, but he didn't distinguish himself as a rookie either and iirc got benched twice: once to start the season, and again during the season. Anyway this wasn't like Parcells passing on HOFers Orlando Pace and Walter Jones to draft a slow-starting James Farrior & 3rd-7th rounders (after de facto passing on Peyton Manning in the first place).

If McDonald plays only 20% of the snaps this year, you start to think he's an outright bust and not merely poor allocation of 1st round resources. It's too early yet to call him anything like that; I mean, JJII only played 27% of the snaps as a rookie himself and now everyone loves him, and Huff gave little reason to pull him off the field in expected passing situations, and JJII solidified starting on the blind side. 

We'll see. Whatever slot he was expected to go (lower than 15), he's very much a plus athlete and looks to have an x-factor to him. Will that materialize beyond flashes? I don't know; watch the games to find out. 

I do a few things.

1. I use my precious draft capital on Offense.  Premium position like WR.  I do not rely on an aging QB being able to carry a weak OL and poor weapons.  First round, first year WRs have provided a tremendous ROI over the last 7 or so years.  

1a. If Will McDonald was truly BPA, the assumption is that he would be a full time starting Edge by year 2 without significant investments to round out the rotation.  Going after Clowney in McDonald's 2nd year seems counter to this.  If they have Clowney, JFM, and JJ where are McDonald's snaps going to come from?

2. I trade Huff by the trade deadline and grab a 3rd or 4th rounder this year rather than a 2025 4th round comp that might not even happen.  The 49ers traded a 3rd for Chase Young.  There was nothing to indicate that the Jets were making a playoff push so get something in return for Huff that is better than an iffy 2025 comp pick.  This might be a pick I use to add Edge depth behind McDonald.  

3. After trading Huff, I play Will McDonald more to see how he performs rather than entering this offseason with a bigger question mark.

4. I earmark the 'Clowney money' to a 3rd WR like Tyler Boyd or to re-sign Ashtyn Davis and address post draft needs.  

Better use of resources, better return for Huff, and possibly a more ready or at least more known quantity in McDonald.  

[FidelioJet]

51 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

What makes you think it's highly unlikely? Based of his few snaps in his rookie season? You've seen enough to determine? 

Just the odds of any #10 pick getting there.  Rarely do players become as disruptive as Huff.  I think the point is if he because as good as Huff everyone would be happy.  So why keep Huff and take a position of need?

All I’m saying is McD at 10 was an awful choice.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Just the odds of any #10 pick getting there.  Rarely do players become as disruptive as Huff.  I think the point is if he because as good as Huff everyone would be happy.  So why keep Huff and take a position of need?

All I’m saying is McD at 10 was an awful choice.  

Phew. Good thing the Jets drafted him at 15 then!

STEAL!!

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, OtherwiseHappyinLife said:

I do a few things.

1. I use my precious draft capital on Offense.  Premium position like WR.  I do not rely on an aging QB being able to carry a weak OL and poor weapons.  First round, first year WRs have provided a tremendous ROI over the last 7 or so years.  

1a. If Will McDonald was truly BPA, the assumption is that he would be a full time starting Edge by year 2 without significant investments to round out the rotation.  Going after Clowney in McDonald's 2nd year seems counter to this.  If they have Clowney, JFM, and JJ where are McDonald's snaps going to come from?

2. I trade Huff by the trade deadline and grab a 3rd or 4th rounder this year rather than a 2025 4th round comp that might not even happen.  The 49ers traded a 3rd for Chase Young.  There was nothing to indicate that the Jets were making a playoff push so get something in return for Huff that is better than an iffy 2025 comp pick.  This might be a pick I use to add Edge depth behind McDonald.  

3. After trading Huff, I play Will McDonald more to see how he performs rather than entering this offseason with a bigger question mark.

4. I earmark the 'Clowney money' to a 3rd WR like Tyler Boyd or to re-sign Ashtyn Davis and address post draft needs.  

Better use of resources, better return for Huff, and possibly a more ready or at least more known quantity in McDonald.  

Yeah I think we all want instant elite or gamebreaking results from high draft picks. It's understandable, and in terms of cap economics is invaluable to have someone pan out at a fraction of his veteran-contract rate.

Truth is is, though, it's more important you get it right than get it right a little earlier. For example, if they find a 10-year starter at OT at #10 then, while it's certainly not ideal, it isn't a bust of a pick if he doesn't open the season as the starting LT or RT. Quinnen Williams is arguably the best player on the team, and nobody thought anything like that for his first few seasons. 

• Mac Jones started 17 games as a rookie and got an alternate probowl nod. He sucks.

• Alex Leatherwood took every snap as a rookie from the first series of week 1. He sucks.

• Evan Neal started right away at OT. He sucks, and is a giant douche to boot. 

• Though due to a groin injury and not being buried, Christian Darrisaw didn't start until week 4. He's a borderline probowl - certainly a solid enough - left tackle and only turns 25 in June.

The only one of the 4 I'd redraft is the one who didn't see the field the first 3 weeks of his rookie season.

The problem with Huff's post-rookie contract is he didn't really start putting up numbers until just before the trade deadline, which itself came after the Jets had just won 3 straight games (and only narrowly lost the one before that to KC). So they were 4-3 just 1/2 game behind Buffalo, had just given the reigning NFC champs their only loss on the season (handicapped without either starting corner to boot), Lazard hadn't fully collapsed yet, and were playing with prayers that Rodgers might return for the playoffs if they made it that far.

Nobody was calling for the Jets to trade high picks for Huff at that point, and with just 3.5 sacks by the trade deadline - which matched his career high to date - he just wasn't going to return as much as people like to think, since that's based on the hindsight knowledge that he was going to finish with 10 sacks.

The reality is nobody wanted the Jets to simply let Huff go. Sometimes players reach free agency. It happens. 

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

You're being disingenuous what you say all you saw from Huff was a 2,2 & 3.5 sack guy.  He was one of the - if not the the most disruptive player on the field when he played.

Will McD's turn out to be better? I sure hope so.  It's possible he can be as explosive off the edge and be stout against the run.  That would make him a perennial all-pro and would be amazing.

But it's highly unlikely he will - just based on what I've seen from Huff and how few players I've seen have his type of impact.  McD's can still be a good player and a solid pro and never be as good as Huff was.

I think we know production is production.  
Do the same rules apply to others?  Will McDonald looked really promising but he hasn’t produced yet as a rookie learning the NFL game.  No one is saying he’s “highly” unlikely he won’t develop or to the point won’t become a better player than Huff.   You’re saying McD won’t be more productive, that it’s highly unlikely but JD should have locked him up to a long term deal before he was productive 
 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

You're being disingenuous what you say all you saw from Huff was a 2,2 & 3.5 sack guy.  He was one of the - if not the the most disruptive player on the field when he played.

Will McD's turn out to be better? I sure hope so.  It's possible he can be as explosive off the edge and be stout against the run.  That would make him a perennial all-pro and would be amazing.

But it's highly unlikely he will - just based on what I've seen from Huff and how few players I've seen have his type of impact.  McD's can still be a good player and a solid pro and never be as good as Huff was.

We all liked and still like Huff. All of us.

The reality is edge guys get paid for sacks if they're not full-time starters & also stout against the run. Huff was a pass rushing specialist, converted from safety, who'd never finished any of his 3 seasons with more than 3.5 sacks; and the one time they made him an every-down starter he was run over a lot and then got injured.

I'm thrilled for him that he got paid, and that he's going to get the full-time gig he craved. Huff has one 10-sack season with the expanded 17-game schedule, with 2 of them coming in the final insignificant/meaningless game of the season against Bailey Zappe (whom the rest of the team sacked another 5x on top of that). 

He's a terrific pass rusher, and has a great first jump, but you are also making it sound like he's coming off back to back to back 15-20 sack all-pro seasons and didn't need to be pulled against the run (which was often enough, given the Jets' suckjob offense). His pass rushing skills aren't possessed by 100 others in the league, but he's not an irreplaceable player because he got 10 sacks once in a dedicated role that kept him fresh all game long week after week.

He's allowed to bet on himself and reach free agency. Lots of guys get injured or have nagging injuries that keep them from maxing out. Good on him for his success.

[FidelioJet]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

We all liked and still like Huff. All of us.

The reality is edge guys get paid for sacks if they're not full-time starters & also stout against the run. Huff was a pass rushing specialist, converted from safety, who'd never finished any of his 3 seasons with more than 3.5 sacks; and the one time they made him an every-down starter he was run over a lot and then got injured.

I'm thrilled for him that he got paid, and that he's going to get the full-time gig he craved. Huff has one 10-sack season with the expanded 17-game schedule, with 2 of them coming in the final insignificant/meaningless game of the season against Bailey Zappe (whom the rest of the team sacked another 5x on top of that). 

He's a terrific pass rusher, and has a great first jump, but you are also making it sound like he's coming off back to back to back 15-20 sack all-pro seasons and didn't need to be pulled against the run (which was often enough, given the Jets' suckjob offense). His pass rushing skills aren't possessed by 100 others in the league, but he's not an irreplaceable player because he got 10 sacks once in a dedicated role that kept him fresh all game long week after week.

He's allowed to bet on himself and reach free agency. Lots of guys get injured or have nagging injuries that keep them from maxing out. Good on him for his success.

All of this is true.  I like Huff and am happy for him.

I just think a far better use of resources was to pay Huff and not draft, what is likely to be, a lesser player in the first round to replace him - at a position of strength.

This is all.  

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

All of this is true.  I like Huff and am happy for him.

I just think a far better use of resources was to pay Huff and not draft, what is likely to be, a lesser player in the first round to replace him - at a position of strength.

This is all.  

OK, GM FidelioJet: Huff tells you to pound sand, he's not signing another contract with the Jets to be a part time player in his prime. He'd rather bet on himself than take the max ~$8MM offer from the Jets that he couldn't sniff at from anyone else.

Then after the season, any promises of starting will not be believed or it'd have happened last year or the year before, and talk is cheap. He bet on himself and won, and in March '24 wants to reap the rewards for doing so.

He further says in January, if you franchise tag him he'll just hold out and skip all summer - and possibly into the fall - with the cap-strapped team having to carry that $21MM cap charge even with it unsigned.

Now, how do you as all-wise GM "pay Huff" given all that?