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OTAs 2024, Days 1-3


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9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Reports were that Douglas was going balls out for Odunze, but Atlanta wouldn’t blink because they wanted Penix. The question is, did they want Odunze that bad because they think Odunze is great, or because they recognize WR2 as a real weakness? 

Does it only have to be one of the choices?   I think Douglas saw Odunze as a great add that would back up Williams and likely replace him next year.   When he was gone they pivoted to plan B, which was OT.  I think it’s important to note that both Odunze and Fashanu are considered good people and team mates, and that’s important to this regime.

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5 minutes ago, slats said:

Atlanta could’ve had Penix + extra draft capital. No one saw them taking Penix. Raiders expected him to be there at 13, I think everyone did. That’s so annoying to me, lol, but teams lock onto the guys they love and get paranoid, I guess. 
 
As for Douglas, I’d guess that Odunze was their BAP over Fashanu, and that WR was a position in more immediate need of starting help than the OL. If they drafted Odunze, he probably would’ve lined up outside with Wilson in the slot a lot - provided Williams was healthy. Which is the other side of it; Odunze would’ve been Williams insurance this year and his replacement next year. 

Once they missed on Odunze, Fashanu was the BAP, one who serves as Smith insurance this year and his replacement next year. Corley was then targeted because WR is a need. If they can get a good amount of production out of the slot, Williams’ health outside isn’t as big an issue. 
 
I’m interested to see what happens with last year’s UDFAs at the position, too. A lot of talk about how the coaches “love” Gipson, but drafting Corley to replace him on offense and bringing in another returner (this one a DB) as a UDFA this year may signal otherwise. Conversely, I could see Brownlee getting opportunities outside in a competition with Lazard while Williams recovers. Rodgers may love Lazard, but he’s got to win the affection of the coaching staff after his garbage season last year. 

I’m still surprised that odunze was plan A.  The draft was so deep in wrs and you’d have to believe he’s a superstar to want him and then maybe address tackle on day 2, as opposed to the combo they got.  I like the fashanu/wr combo better than any alternative.  Whether it’s douglas (seems likely at this point) or another gm, having the LT assuming smith isn’t there next year makes it much easier to hit the offseason.  

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1 hour ago, slats said:

Atlanta could’ve had Penix + extra draft capital. No one saw them taking Penix. Raiders expected him to be there at 13, I think everyone did. That’s so annoying to me, lol, but teams lock onto the guys they love and get paranoid, I guess. 
 
As for Douglas, I’d guess that Odunze was their BAP over Fashanu, and that WR was a position in more immediate need of starting help than the OL. If they drafted Odunze, he probably would’ve lined up outside with Wilson in the slot a lot - provided Williams was healthy. Which is the other side of it; Odunze would’ve been Williams insurance this year and his replacement next year. 

Once they missed on Odunze, Fashanu was the BAP, one who serves as Smith insurance this year and his replacement next year. Corley was then targeted because WR is a need. If they can get a good amount of production out of the slot, Williams’ health outside isn’t as big an issue. 
 
I’m interested to see what happens with last year’s UDFAs at the position, too. A lot of talk about how the coaches “love” Gipson, but drafting Corley to replace him on offense and bringing in another returner (this one a DB) as a UDFA this year may signal otherwise. Conversely, I could see Brownlee getting opportunities outside in a competition with Lazard while Williams recovers. Rodgers may love Lazard, but he’s got to win the affection of the coaching staff after his garbage season last year. 

Part of me feels exactly like this.  The other part remembers that some of the chatter pre-draft was that these teams were not as consensus on the QBs as draftniks and I think Penix was part of that, you don't dick around.  Not trading down was not even remotely as bizzare as taking a top 10 QB after paying Cousins.  The fact that it was Penix was only icing on the cake.

I think Penix and Nix have the opportunity to change the narrative on old QBs that bounce around.  Their success or lack thereof will probably be important to tons of prospects going forward.

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33 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I’m glad it worked out the way it did.  LT should be set for the foreseeable future.  You can find a starting wr every year in the middle/late first and potential starters on day 2. 

Agreed.

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16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Part of me feels exactly like this.  The other part remembers that some of the chatter pre-draft was that these teams were not as consensus on the QBs as draftniks and I think Penix was part of that, you don't dick around.  Not trading down was not even remotely as bizzare as taking a top 10 QB after paying Cousins.  The fact that it was Penix was only icing on the cake.

I think Penix and Nix have the opportunity to change the narrative on old QBs that bounce around.  Their success or lack thereof will probably be important to tons of prospects going forward.

The only wildcard would’ve been what Chicago did with Odunze off the board. They certainly weren’t going QB. Probably the best defender or a trade back (if they could find one). No way the Raiders feel the need to trade ahead of Atlanta, who -like you said- made a bizarre choice with that pick. Prior to that shocker, it looked like the Raiders had a clear path to the QB they wanted. 

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1 minute ago, slats said:

The only wildcard would’ve been what Chicago did with Odunze off the board. They certainly weren’t going QB. Probably the best defender or a trade back (if they could find one). No way the Raiders feel the need to trade ahead of Atlanta, who -like you said- made a bizarre choice with that pick. Prior to that shocker, it looked like the Raiders had a clear path to the QB they wanted. 

The only wild card?  The Vikings and Broncos picked before the Raiders and they also took QBs.  People were also wondering about whether the Giants would take one.

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

The only wild card?  The Vikings and Broncos picked before the Raiders and they also took QBs.  People were also wondering about whether the Giants would take one.

Giants had already picked, and the Vikings and Broncos chose the QBs they were most closely linked to during the process. Maybe one of those teams wanted Penix instead, but I tend to doubt it. I understand not taking the gamble if you love the prospect, but I really don’t think it was much of a gamble at all. 

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2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

Does it only have to be one of the choices?   I think Douglas saw Odunze as a great add that would back up Williams and likely replace him next year.   When he was gone they pivoted to plan B, which was OT.  I think it’s important to note that both Odunze and Fashanu are considered good people and team mates, and that’s important to this regime.

Having Odunze on his rookie deal, they could also resign Williams if he has a great season.  No reason to let Williams walk after 1 year, if he turns out to be great.  We are in year 3 of Wilson, and we have 2 more years on his rookie deal, so keeping Williams would not be out of the question.  The one leaving after this year will be Lazard, with his $11M per year deal.  This year, we are stuck with Lazard, so hopefully he will come to play, now that Rodgers is back.  Depending on how our new YAK king plays, resigning Wiliams would be nice, and the Jets could focus on other areas in the offseason.

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11 minutes ago, Alka said:

Having Odunze on his rookie deal, they could also resign Williams if he has a great season.  No reason to let Williams walk after 1 year, if he turns out to be great.  We are in year 3 of Wilson, and we have 2 more years on his rookie deal, so keeping Williams would not be out of the question.  The one leaving after this year will be Lazard, with his $11M per year deal.  This year, we are stuck with Lazard, so hopefully he will come to play, now that Rodgers is back.  Depending on how our new YAK king plays, resigning Wiliams would be nice, and the Jets could focus on other areas in the offseason.

If Williams has a great year and contract negotiations don't work out, they will get a nice comp pick.

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57 minutes ago, slats said:

The only wildcard would’ve been what Chicago did with Odunze off the board. They certainly weren’t going QB. Probably the best defender or a trade back (if they could find one). No way the Raiders feel the need to trade ahead of Atlanta, who -like you said- made a bizarre choice with that pick. Prior to that shocker, it looked like the Raiders had a clear path to the QB they wanted. 

No doubt it was totally weird to even consider QB at #8 a month after signing Cousins to such a big deal. Cousins is a guy you pick up to compete right now, not to mentor a prospect, and if you're looking to compete right now it's way-strange to then dump a #8 overall pick on a player you hope won't see the field that year (nor the next). You're either competing seriously these next two years or you're not. 

Ordinarily they might make that move to add an extra pick or two, but not this year when they already had two extra picks.

Dropping down from 8-10 just doesn't yield nearly the same return as dropping a couple slots from a top 3 pick, especially with the top 3 QB prospects already off the board. So if Penix is the guy they truly think will be an elite, championship-caliber FQB from 2026-2036, then I get not risk settling for a different QB you like far less just to acquire probably an extra 4th & 6th rounder back in 2024. The Jets once got cute with holding their picks and settling for their next-best QB & it meant ending up with Nagle instead of Favre (only making it worse that they drafted bust after bust with the pick(s) it would've taken to move up 2-3 slots that year anyhow). 

So I agree Atlanta probably turned down found-money, but it just wasn't a lot of found-money, so risk vs. reward sets in when the player you're targeting is a specific QB. It could be they'd have rolled the dice on such a risk for the Jets' 3rd rounder but Douglas wasn't offering it, and the 10th pick in round 4 (plus maybe a 6th they could just as easily get by moving down a couple slots in round 2) just wasn't enough.

Already being armed with an extra 3rd & 5th from the Calvin Ridley trade, they were just focused on getting their early-targeted guys and weren't playing pick-conservation, as evidenced not just by taking Penix way up at #8 instead of swapping with the Jets, but also trading that Ridley-compensation 3rd rounder to move up from 43 to 35 for a DT. 

Truth is it's not worth the risk for a team already armed with an extra 3rd & 5th to be risking their top choice of QBs to pick up an extra 4th & 6th in that same draft (nor for an unknown-slot 3rd the following year). Still an odd offseason for them regardless.

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Part of me feels exactly like this.  The other part remembers that some of the chatter pre-draft was that these teams were not as consensus on the QBs as draftniks and I think Penix was part of that, you don't dick around.  Not trading down was not even remotely as bizzare as taking a top 10 QB after paying Cousins.  The fact that it was Penix was only icing on the cake.

Agreed.  I really wanted Odunze at 10 and was pissed on draft night that the Falcons reportedly refused to move down.  But from their perspective, if you love the QB.  If you think he can be the guy for the next decade+.  You don't mess around.  You take him when he is available and don't get cute and risk losing your guy, no matter how remote the risk is.

Suppose they traded with us.  We took Odunze at 8 and the Bears decided to trade back and someone jumps the Falcons and takes their guy.  Unlikely but not impossible.   

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No doubt it was totally weird to even consider QB at #8 a month after signing Cousins to such a big deal. Cousins is a guy you pick up to compete right now, not to mentor a prospect, and if you're looking to compete right now it's way-strange to then dump a #8 overall pick on a player you hope won't see the field that year (nor the next). You're either competing seriously these next two years or you're not. 

Ordinarily they might make that move to add an extra pick or two, but not this year when they already had two extra picks.

Dropping down from 8-10 just doesn't yield nearly the same return as dropping a couple slots from a top 3 pick, especially with the top 3 QB prospects already off the board. So if Penix is the guy they truly think will be an elite, championship-caliber FQB from 2026-2036, then I get not risk settling for a different QB you like far less just to acquire probably an extra 4th & 6th rounder back in 2024. The Jets once got cute with holding their picks and settling for their next-best QB & it meant ending up with Nagle instead of Favre (only making it worse that they drafted bust after bust with the pick(s) it would've taken to move up 2-3 slots that year anyhow). 

So I agree Atlanta probably turned down found-money, but it just wasn't a lot of found-money, so risk vs. reward sets in when the player you're targeting is a specific QB. It could be they'd have rolled the dice on such a risk for the Jets' 3rd rounder but Douglas wasn't offering it, and the 10th pick in round 4 (plus maybe a 6th they could just as easily get by moving down a couple slots in round 2) just wasn't enough.

Already being armed with an extra 3rd & 5th from the Calvin Ridley trade, they were just focused on getting their early-targeted guys and weren't playing pick-conservation, as evidenced not just by taking Penix way up at #8 instead of swapping with the Jets, but also trading that Ridley-compensation 3rd rounder to move up from 43 to 35 for a DT. 

Truth is it's not worth the risk for a team already armed with an extra 3rd & 5th to be risking their top choice of QBs to pick up an extra 4th & 6th in that same draft (nor for an unknown-slot 3rd the following year). Still an odd offseason for them regardless.

I read somewhere that blank was done with the 2 crappy qbs they played last year.  Owners spend so much money on players and then they have to watch their own team suck b/c their qbs are inferior to others.  You also have woody spending on rodgers.  Owners are ready to invest that money in qbs to not be embarrassed.

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50 minutes ago, slats said:

Giants had already picked, and the Vikings and Broncos chose the QBs they were most closely linked to during the process. Maybe one of those teams wanted Penix instead, but I tend to doubt it. I understand not taking the gamble if you love the prospect, but I really don’t think it was much of a gamble at all. 

That's fair.  Like I said, part of me agrees, but I think those teams were linked to those guys because they thought they are who would be left.  In fact, I don't think the Broncos were particularly linked to Nix.  The Falcons also lose the "HE WAS OUR TOP PROSPECT ALL ALONG!" card if they trade down.

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2 hours ago, slats said:

I’m interested to see what happens with last year’s UDFAs at the position, too. A lot of talk about how the coaches “love” Gipson, but drafting Corley to replace him on offense and bringing in another returner (this one a DB) as a UDFA this year may signal otherwise. Conversely, I could see Brownlee getting opportunities outside in a competition with Lazard while Williams recovers. Rodgers may love Lazard, but he’s got to win the affection of the coaching staff after his garbage season last year. 

I know that we've had this conversation before and the only reason I'm revisiting it is because its sound like Gipson and Lazard are getting run w/ the 1's and Corley is catching balls from Tyrod Taylor.  Gipson had the lone long TD, Lazard doing the stuff that he knows Rodgers wants him to do.   I know it's only OTA's but it goes back to what I've been saying to you.  It's not often a team drafts a player in the 3rd round, to replace anyone on their roster and to become an immediate starter, especially a small school gimmicky manufactured touches WR who was running over Accountants.  More commonly, they've instead added a player to their roster who provides competition, depth and is a player they're looking for to be a future contributor but not necessarily someone they must rely on this season because in this situation, the learning curve is insanely steep for Corley. 

And again, the minute Rodgers told Saleh to get over it w/ Lazard, it was done and Saleh forgave and forgot.  Saleh bows the ball sweat of Rogers, the idea he's telling him who he's going to throw to is laughable..  Hence why Lazard is running opposite side Garrett Wilson from jump in OTA's.

 

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2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

I’m still surprised that odunze was plan A.  The draft was so deep in wrs and you’d have to believe he’s a superstar to want him and then maybe address tackle on day 2, as opposed to the combo they got.  I like the fashanu/wr combo better than any alternative.  Whether it’s douglas (seems likely at this point) or another gm, having the LT assuming smith isn’t there next year makes it much easier to hit the offseason.  


 

I also like Fashanu + 3rd round WR better than Odunze + 3rd round tackle, but I think most GMs will always take their BPA, regardless. This draft was super deep at WR and it’s always  easier to find a legit 3rd round WR than it is a legit 3rd round OT

 

i also think Odunze felt like a particularly safe/high floor first round WR to a lot of teams 

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2 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

I’m still surprised that odunze was plan A.  The draft was so deep in wrs and you’d have to believe he’s a superstar to want him and then maybe address tackle on day 2, as opposed to the combo they got.  I like the fashanu/wr combo better than any alternative.  Whether it’s douglas (seems likely at this point) or another gm, having the LT assuming smith isn’t there next year makes it much easier to hit the offseason.  

I'm not surprised that Odunze was plan A, but happy that plan A fell apart, and we got Fashanu, who I wanted all along.

If Smith and Moses are healthy the entire season, it will be a big surprise, but still a welcome one.  No matter how well Smith plays, it still won't make sense for me for the Jets to resign him for an extended contract.  Fashanu needs to start next season at left tackle, unless Moses is gone and Smith somehow finds the fountain of health.  Then we can place Fashanu at right tackle.  Either way, one or both of these veterans will be gone next season.  

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38 minutes ago, Alka said:

I'm not surprised that Odunze was plan A, but happy that plan A fell apart, and we got Fashanu, who I wanted all along.

If Smith and Moses are healthy the entire season, it will be a big surprise, but still a welcome one.  No matter how well Smith plays, it still won't make sense for me for the Jets to resign him for an extended contract.  Fashanu needs to start next season at left tackle, unless Moses is gone and Smith somehow finds the fountain of health.  Then we can place Fashanu at right tackle.  Either way, one or both of these veterans will be gone next season.  

The main reason I’m surprised rome was plan A is b/c of the sorry state of the OL for years.  Here, JD had essentially a layup, to both solidify the OL for rodgers and sort of atone for the becton pick.  And in such a deep wr class, even with no 2nd rounder, you would think they realized they could still land a decent wr on day 2.  In the end it seems to have worked out well for the jets in terms of their preferred players.  With so many wrs going early, teams just weren’t taking all the highly rated wrs on day 2.  

Also i think the supply/demand in trades and FA should impact draft decisions.  You should draft the positions early that are much harder to get in FA.  

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50 minutes ago, JustInFudge said:

I know that we've had this conversation before and the only reason I'm revisiting it is because its sound like Gipson and Lazard are getting run w/ the 1's and Corley is catching balls from Tyrod Taylor.  Gipson had the lone long TD, Lazard doing the stuff that he knows Rodgers wants him to do.   I know it's only OTA's but it goes back to what I've been saying to you.  It's not often a team drafts a player in the 3rd round, to replace anyone on their roster and to become an immediate starter, especially a small school gimmicky manufactured touches WR who was running over Accountants.  More commonly, they've instead added a player to their roster who provides competition, depth and is a player they're looking for to be a future contributor but not necessarily someone they must rely on this season because in this situation, the learning curve is insanely steep for Corley. 

And again, the minute Rodgers told Saleh to get over it w/ Lazard, it was done and Saleh forgave and forgot.  Saleh bows the ball sweat of Rogers, the idea he's telling him who he's going to throw to is laughable..  Hence why Lazard is running opposite side Garrett Wilson from jump in OTA's.

This is what I’d expect. Corley just got his playbook. He’s being introduced to the Jets, and the NFL in general, in these OTAs. Gipson is the incumbent starter, so he gets the nod now and possibly/probably again when camp opens in July. But by opening day, I have very little doubt that Corley will be starting in the slot. Gipson was on the roster all 17 games with three starts as an UDFA. I expect the first pick of the third round to move ahead of him quickly, and produce 2-3x the receiving yards Gipson put up last season, or more. It’s not like Gipson was Wayne Chrebet last year. Imho, Corley will be top five in receptions this season with a chance of being top three. It’ll be Wilson, Breece, then Conklin, Williams, and Corley in some order. I really disagree on the learning curve. 
 
Lazard is running on the outside because Williams is in recovery, and that will probably continue into training camp leaving the slot competition between Corley and Gipson. Lazard will wind up being WR4, primarily backing up Williams, and that’ll only be if Brownlee can’t beat him out. Rodgers can love Lazard all he wants, but he’s still got to demonstrate that he can be effective as a Jet after last year. 

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14 minutes ago, slats said:

This is what I’d expect. Corley just got his playbook. He’s being introduced to the Jets, and the NFL in general, in these OTAs. Gipson is the incumbent starter, so he gets the nod now and possibly/probably again when camp opens in July. But by opening day, I have very little doubt that Corley will be starting in the slot. Gipson was on the roster all 17 games with three starts as an UDFA. I expect the first pick of the third round to move ahead of him quickly, and produce 2-3x the receiving yards Gipson put up last season, or more. It’s not like Gipson was Wayne Chrebet last year. Imho, Corley will be top five in receptions this season with a chance of being top three. It’ll be Wilson, Breece, then Conklin, Williams, and Corley in some order. I really disagree on the learning curve. 
 
Lazard is running on the outside because Williams is in recovery, and that will probably continue into training camp leaving the slot competition between Corley and Gipson. Lazard will wind up being WR4, primarily backing up Williams, and that’ll only be if Brownlee can’t beat him out. Rodgers can love Lazard all he wants, but he’s still got to demonstrate that he can be effective as a Jet after last year. 

plus with corley it's not like they're asking him to (hopefully not) know the whole route tree.  you'd think they plan on using him as he was used in college, with quick outs that don't require much understanding of defenses or complex routes

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2 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

The Falcons ******* suck. They could've had Penix with the 10th pick. Dipsh*ts.

Eh, if they’re sold on Penix being amazing, which it seems they are, you don’t get cute for an extra third round pick. Three teams picking almost immediately after were salivating for a QB and could have easily jumped up to 9 if Atlanta traded back to 10. 

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I dont see corley playing much this year.  He is a mid round rookie who will need to get used to the nfl game.  I dont see him playing over gipson much.

They will have some quick screens and gadget plays for him but I dont see him getting much playing time unless theres an injury.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

When was the last time we had a QB put up 13-15, 3 TDs and 0 INT?  Practice or otherwise?  @FidelioJet ?

I always love your positive energy. But come on.  
We’ve had QB’s have good practice days.  And surely a 41 year old QB in January is going to need to be a lot better than a 40 year old in May in shorts. 

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8 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets weren’t trying to trade up into the second round to draft a WR who they planned to sit behind a 5’9”, 185 lb UDFA all year. I’m sure there’ll be some combination of manufactured touches and traditional slot receiving duties from Corley, but he’ll be the starter. 
 
FTR, one of Allen or Davis will be ahead of Abanikanda, too. 

Agreed. 

I am not certain that Gipson is a lock to make the roster.  He made some plays last year, but also put the ball on the ground 5 times on less than 90 touches.  If he has ball security issues in the preseason, I think his roster spot could be in trouble.

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8 minutes ago, slats said:

The Jets weren’t trying to trade up into the second round to draft a WR who they planned to sit behind a 5’9”, 185 lb UDFA all year. I’m sure there’ll be some combination of manufactured touches and traditional slot receiving duties from Corley, but he’ll be the starter. 
 
FTR, one of Allen or Davis will be ahead of Abanikanda, too. 

Rodgers literally called Corley his favorite receiver of the draft. 

Joe is just extending his Cal Ripken like streak of being wrong. 

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17 hours ago, slats said:

I’m so happy that I didn’t pass the Jet fan gene down to my children. It might’ve been something for us to talk about, but nothing good. 

I feel guilty to a certain degree, but we just give me a pass and put the blame on my father for passing the gene down to me.  He was a Jets fan from their inception and started the whole tradition, led to me having STs for 36 years. 

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2 hours ago, Tranquilo said:

The Falcons ******* suck. They could've had Penix with the 10th pick. Dipsh*ts.

Thank God they didn't!  I still can't believe that Douglas would have been so stupid to draft a WR at #10 rather than take a LT!!!! Great WRs are much easier to find than great LTs and LT is a much more important position and is critical for the Jets with Smith's injury history.  It would have also been criminally negligent to go into next season with no starting caliber OT on the roster.  We got lucky because Atlanta did the right thing.  Evidently, our GM is too stupid to do the right thing.

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2 hours ago, Alka said:

Having Odunze on his rookie deal, they could also resign Williams if he has a great season.  No reason to let Williams walk after 1 year, if he turns out to be great.  We are in year 3 of Wilson, and we have 2 more years on his rookie deal, so keeping Williams would not be out of the question.  The one leaving after this year will be Lazard, with his $11M per year deal.  This year, we are stuck with Lazard, so hopefully he will come to play, now that Rodgers is back.  Depending on how our new YAK king plays, resigning Wiliams would be nice, and the Jets could focus on other areas in the offseason.

There's a perfectly goo reason to let Williams walk.  For starters, he may not play all that well this season because he isn't fullly recovered from the injury and surgery.  Secondly, the Jets will have 11 starters and 6 key backups become FAs in 2025, as well as a slew of bottom of the roster players.  Included in those 11 starters are two-thirds of their great CB corps, Reed and MC II.  Then G. Wilson, Sauce, JJ and Breece need to be extended/locked up.  The cap is going to be very tight again next year, and the chances are that the Jets could lose quite a few of their own players.  They should take priority over an older, oft-injured WR.  They could easily draft a replacement for Williams in the 2025 draft.

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  • Bronx changed the title to OTAs 2024, Days 1-3

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