Hypothetical: Who Would You Trade?

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

So then why dont you and @Warfish start your own F'ing thread!?!?!?!?!?!  I'm just answering my og home boy, @Barry McCockinner

 

7 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Why wouldn't you factor in projected return? The objective is to save sweet, sweet cap space but that is achieved by trading any of the 4 rather than extending them. You are more stubborn than I am sometimes.

 

6 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

You SOB you

[slats]

The reason you would be forced to trade a player would primarily be because they’re going to be too expensive to keep. Right off the bat, Breece isn’t a consideration. CB, WR, and Edge could all be $30M/year positions, while Breece will be lucky if he ever breaks $20M in a year. 
 
Johnson is the oldest of the four and my plan for him would be the fifth year option and then seeing what we want to do with him as a 28 year old free agent to be. He might wind up being affordable. 
 
That leaves Sauce and Wilson. Wilson is something of an incomplete after two full seasons because of the garbage we’ve had at QB, so seeing what he actually does with good QB play vs. what he’d hypothetically do will be helpful in that discussion. My thinking is that WRs should be easier to find. A ton of them get drafted every year, and it seems like the numbers going high keep going up. Colleges pump them out. There are always some available. In fact, I kinda hope the Jets pick one up this year in the mini-draft. Next year, a WR in the first round would seem like a likely pick. 
 
I agree with everyone who says Sauce would bring back the most and, if Saleh holds onto his job, I’d feel pretty good about developing the next one. He’d bring back the most because he’s the elite-est. 

[JiFtheOracle]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

@Barry McCockinner doesnt quite get how I hold grudges, he gunna learn!

[Sperm Edwards]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

I hear you and mostly agree, but similar to my rationale for holding on to Hall, I wonder what Jermaine Johnson would draw on the open market. He’s a good, solid player who hustles and all that, but I don’t know if he’s viewed as a true pass-rushing EDGE guy that’d get you a decent return back, and if you’re not reaping a haul, it’s better just to keep him, I guess. I think Sauce would merit that haul, even though it’d suck to lose him. 

 

The point of the draft pick is to get a great player. These 3 are already the championship team unicorns you're seeking with draft picks in the first place, plus JJII's next contract will cost as much or more than Breece's anyway just because of the position he pays. 

I don't want to get rid of any of them, but if forced to choose, he's easily the least unicorny + most easily replaced of the four. In particular with Coach Rotation at the helm.

[viffer]

15 hours ago, JKlecko said:

My God, the poster you're responding to is never right on anything.

Yeah, but sometimes you just have to respond...

[T0mShane]

56 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The point of the draft pick is to get a great player. These 3 are already the championship team unicorns you're seeking with draft picks in the first place, plus JJII's next contract will cost as much or more than Breece's anyway just because of the position he pays. 

I don't want to get rid of any of them, but if forced to choose, he's easily the least unicorny + most easily replaced of the four. In particular with Coach Rotation at the helm.

Agreed that JJ is the least good out of the four, which makes me wonder if he’d be worth much in a trade. His pass rush win rate is like 12%, which is awful, especially considering he lines up next to a guy who’s constantly drawing double teams. On the other hand, the top CBs don’t draw that much money (relatively) in terms of AAV (Jaire Alexander at $21m per) so even someone as good as Sauce could be locked up for what’d feel like a bargain. But I wonder if that just says more about how the league views corners now, where they don’t want to go all-in on one CB because it’s easy enough for offenses to simply avoid throwing at that one guy. We saw that in the Dallas game last year where McCarthy just move CeeDee Lamb around the field and let him run untouched through the non-Sauce defense. Is it better to diversify spending on DB? 

[The Crusher]

Also have to consider we may need a QB around the same time and Sauce would be the one to move for the means  in order to get into a top 3 draft position for a QB that would likely suck again. Providing we win  enough games moving forward to require such a massive move. 

[Barry McCockinner]

45 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Also have to consider we may need a QB around the same time and Sauce would be the one to move for the means  in order to get into a top 3 draft position for a QB that would likely suck again. Providing we win  enough games moving forward to require such a massive move. 

excellent point except I was told that Jordan Travis is our QB of the future.

[Sperm Edwards]

49 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed that JJ is the least good out of the four, which makes me wonder if he’d be worth much in a trade. His pass rush win rate is like 12%, which is awful, especially considering he lines up next to a guy who’s constantly drawing double teams. On the other hand, the top CBs don’t draw that much money (relatively) in terms of AAV (Jaire Alexander at $21m per) so even someone as good as Sauce could be locked up for what’d feel like a bargain. But I wonder if that just says more about how the league views corners now, where they don’t want to go all-in on one CB because it’s easy enough for offenses to simply avoid throwing at that one guy. We saw that in the Dallas game last year where McCarthy just move CeeDee Lamb around the field and let him run untouched through the non-Sauce defense. Is it better to diversify spending on DB? 

The problem is if you trade one of the others, you're just using those picks to replace the guy you traded away. 

Meanwhile they could replace JJII with a 31-year UFA who's a bit past his prime but still solid enough, making half what JJII will get on his extension.

I still absolutely prefer keeping Johnson instead of going that route, and they should be able to.

Just keep in mind when you trade your Revis for picks & cap, sometimes those draft pick profits go towards replacing him with Dee Milliner, and the remaining saved cap space goes to the likes of Percy Harvin & Chris Johnson.

[The Crusher]

16 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

excellent point except I was told that Jordan Travis is our QB of the future.

Is that the kid from Florida with a broke ankle? If it is? Jordan Travis > Zach Wilson. 

[Claymation]

Never Forget.

 

[Warfish]

15 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Johnson, only because of the pipeline at his position; if I need to deal him away today, I'm extending Reddick and leaning more on McDonald as my No. 2 DE. The other option is Hall, who is likely to have the shortest career of the bunch and is easiest to replace with an at least good enough NFL level starter - but he's an elite elite RB who can be the engine of the offense.

Wilson and Sauce are tier-1 guys at premium positions, no way I ever deal them

Hot Take: 

Aside from Aaron Rodgers health.....the quality of play of Breece Hall is the single most vital aspect of if the Jets will be a 10-12 win playoff team, or a 7 win or less also ran in 2024.

If Hall plays all 17 and plays well, we're a playoff team.

If Hall falters or gets hurt, we're not.

Sssssssssssssss, feel the sizzle of that hot hot take.......

[Cut Jet Penalty Makers]

Ashtyn Davis.

[JiFtheOracle]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Hot Take: 

Aside from Aaron Rodgers health.....the quality of play of Breece Hall is the single most vital aspect of if the Jets will be a 10-12 win playoff team, or a 7 win or less also ran in 2024.

If Hall plays all 17 and plays well, we're a playoff team.

If Hall falters or gets hurt, we're not.

Sssssssssssssss, feel the sizzle of that hot hot take.......

pffff, you act like scoring TD's matter or something.  I've learned around here, there not all that important actually.  

[Obrien2Toon]

Sauce, corner is the most overrated position in the sport 

[Jetkwondo]

Interesting thread! 

 I see it  as we all do which is a great problem to have as I don't remember a Jets team loaded with such young talent. In the perfect world you keep all these guys based on their talent and high character but if I had to trade one I'd do it in this order. Trade value and replacement ease plays into my reasoning. BTW JD needs to get acknowledgement for this rare dilemma!

1.Wilson probably falls into the best slot to be traded as far as 2nd highest trade value return and ability to replace through a high  first round pick of the draft. 

2.Hall  probably has 2nd least trade value even though he's a very high performer. Yet they just double drafted his insurance which seems based on RB health/longevity issues so I would consider him before he possibly becomes damaged goods. Plus great RB's can be had easily through the first 2 rounds of the draft which factors heavily.

3. JJ The least trade value for an ascending dual threat Edge/DE that I think is hard to replace unless you pick early in the first round of the draft .

4. Sauce  though many see him as the best choice because he by far has the highest trade value I see him as a definite no trade, as elite CB's are ultra rare, especially one that's so grounded and not a head case. Deion, Revis,  Patrick Peterson are a few of the top CB's who come to mind and I think he falls into that category that he's on the cusp of joining. This is supported by this article for his first 2 years https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2024/06/05/pff-releases-cornerback-rankings-is-sauce-gardner-no-1/

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, JustInFudge said:

pffff, you act like scoring TD's matter or something.  I've learned around here, there not all that important actually.  

@Beerfish taught me the most important thing on offense is not throwing INTs.  Crazy how the Canadian game is so very different.  

[Doggin94it]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Hot Take: 

Aside from Aaron Rodgers health.....the quality of play of Breece Hall is the single most vital aspect of if the Jets will be a 10-12 win playoff team, or a 7 win or less also ran in 2024.

If Hall plays all 17 and plays well, we're a playoff team.

If Hall falters or gets hurt, we're not.

Sssssssssssssss, feel the sizzle of that hot hot take.......

Don't agree about the playoffs but he could well be the difference between "a playoff team" and "a super bowl team". We're good enough on d that a healthy rodgers should have us in the playoffs even without an elite running game. But we don't have enough on offense to make a deep run against the league's elite teams without Hall

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Don't agree about the playoffs but he could well be the difference between "a playoff team" and "a super bowl team". We're good enough on d that a healthy rodgers should have us in the playoffs even without an elite running game. But we don't have enough on offense to make a deep run against the league's elite teams without Hall

Hot Take #2:  I think Aaron Rodgers has always been, and very much will be in 2024, dependent on a quality running game to be his best at QB.

If our running game, led by Hall, isn't good in 2024, Aaron Rodgers won't be good in 2024.

Better than LOLZachypoo, absolutely, but that's not what we're talking about here.

[UntouchableCrew]

This is difficult to do because you're not just projecting the player and his role on the Jets (and what you think the future of the Jets looks like) but also projecting what you think the return would be for him.

• I understand the logic in trading Sauce because 1) he'd return the most right now and 2) you're going to have to pay him a fortune but it's difficult for me to move off a CB who was 1st team All Pro in his first two years in the league. He's a legitimate gold jacket player and making a decision based on Saleh's scheme is ridiculous, Sauce's tenure here will certainly outlast Saleh's
• The argument for moving Breece is essentially that you don't want to pay a RB who's already suffered an ACL tear. The flipside is that he's going to cost the least and is arguably the 2nd most elite guy on the list and probably wouldn't return that much. If you think of him as one of our two elite playmakers rather than just a RB it changes your thinking.
• IMO Garrett Wilson is a stud. What we've seen of him with garbage QB play (and the fact that for a WR his head seems to be screwed on right) strongly indicates you want to keep and build around him. I think he could absolutely explode with good QB and a WR of that caliber who isn't a diva is more valuable that some are giving him credit for given how many of these guys are psychos. Argument for moving him is simply that WR is a position where there's tons of talent coming into the league to in theory he's replaceable.
• Jermaine Johnson is my pick. Would he return the least? Yes. But "good" DEs are always expensive, it's an area of relative depth, and an area where this regime has developed talent. And obviously he's the weakest overall player on a team that needs to continue to improve it's talent.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Jetkwondo said:

Deion, Revis,  Patrick Peterson are a few of the top CB's who come to mind and I think he falls into that category that he's on the cusp of joining.

Deion had 8 INT's in his first two seasons.

Revis had 8 INT's in his first two seasons.

Peterson had 9 INT's in his first two seasons.

Sauce has a grand total of.....2.

All three you mention, I believe, were always on the opponents #1 WR.

Sauce is not.

If the rumors are true, lets see how Sauce does getting almost double the targets/year he's faced so far, covering our opponents #1 WR on every down.  If he is still as good in coverage as he's been, and grabs 5 INT's in 2024, then maybe we have a Sauce = Deion/Revis/Peterson comp. to make.  But not yet.

[Beerfish]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

@Beerfish taught me the most important thing on offense is not throwing INTs.  Crazy how the Canadian game is so very different.  

Well you taught me that winning games is not important so I think we are even on that one.

[Jetsfan80]

54 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Well you taught me that winning games is not important so I think we are even on that one.

Zach Wilson has a career 13-21 record in the NFL.  So even if you don't want to give proper credit to the other 52 guys for the wins he was dragged to....he still f**kin sucked at winning.

[Rich Thornburgh]

23 hours ago, slimjasi said:

agreed, which is one reason I voted for Sauce. 

We got a haul of draft picks for Revis.  Our GM just couldn’t draft

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Well you taught me that winning games is not important so I think we are even on that one.

The argument is that team wins aren’t a great way to assess an individual player (e.g., Matt Stafford in Detroit), not that they aren’t important 

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Deion had 8 INT's in his first two seasons.

Revis had 8 INT's in his first two seasons.

Peterson had 9 INT's in his first two seasons.

Sauce has a grand total of.....2.

All three you mention, I believe, were always on the opponents #1 WR.

Sauce is not.

If the rumors are true, lets see how Sauce does getting almost double the targets/year he's faced so far, covering our opponents #1 WR on every down.  If he is still as good in coverage as he's been, and grabs 5 INT's in 2024, then maybe we have a Sauce = Deion/Revis/Peterson comp. to make.  But not yet.

To be fair, I don’t think Revis was always on the opposing #1 WR under Mangini (who coached him his first two years). That wasn’t a consistent thing until Rex took over. Mangini played a lot more zone than Rex and I believe Revis has commented that he went to Mangini early in his career and asked for a bigger role in man coverage. 
 

But sauce needs more INTs, regardless 

[Jetkwondo]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Deion had 8 INT's in his first two seasons.

Revis had 8 INT's in his first two seasons.

Peterson had 9 INT's in his first two seasons.

Sauce has a grand total of.....2.

All three you mention, I believe, were always on the opponents #1 WR.

Sauce is not.

If the rumors are true, lets see how Sauce does getting almost double the targets/year he's faced so far, covering our opponents #1 WR on every down.  If he is still as good in coverage as he's been, and grabs 5 INT's in 2024, then maybe we have a Sauce = Deion/Revis/Peterson comp. to make.  But not yet.

i agree, not yet, but on the cusp of being considered so with consistent stacking progress after 2 probowl years. 

[Dcat]

On 6/5/2024 at 4:06 PM, JKlecko said:

Second, it looks like Allen and Davis could probably easily replace Breece and give the Jets similar results.  

Just curious.  Just where does it "look like Allen and Davis easily replace Hall with similar results"?  I'd like to see it myself.  

They haven't played a down yet. The above is the most absurd thing I've heard on this board in quite a while.  Bravo. 

[Mr. Rogers]

There's one aspect of this I think has largely been ignored on this thread - how good the Jets are at drafting at these respective positions. To maximize the cap savings we'd obviously like to replace each player with draftee(s).

The Jets have had a decent track record at DE and CB. Sauce is an all-pro player - and it sounds like the Jets are planning to let him "lock on" as an impact defender more next year - so JJ would be my pick to trade. Top of the market DE contracts are big and I think the Jets have plenty of ability to draft and develop D linemen. 

Breece will hopefully not be as expensive to re sign, and as long as he's remaining healthy I'd prefer to. But RB is an easier position to replace via platoon production, or at least with less draft capital. He'd be my 2nd choice.

GW would be my 3rd or 4th choice. True alpha WRs are still rare, even if many skilled WRs enter the league annually. The Jets are also HORRIBLE at scouting and developing this position, both under and before JD. It would take another top 10 pick on a "blue chip" guy for the Jets to find another stud here. I don't trust them do something like the packers did. Also - WRs are more important than ever in the modern borderline-flag-football game. 

[Jetmaster Flex]

Where’s the bone of the above option. That’s what I’m going with

[PepPep]

On 6/5/2024 at 11:20 AM, Jack Straw said:

Jermaine Johnson might be the most overrated Jet on the roster. He's a nice player, but people talk about him like he's a 15 sack guy.

I'd trade Sauce. Zone corner who doesn't cause turnovers and doesn't tackle well. Again, he's a great player but due to the scheme fit + what he'd yield in a return, he makes the most sense.

you're 100% correct on JJ and your take on Sauce is insane 

good day sir

[HighPitch]

On 6/5/2024 at 3:52 PM, Warfish said:

As of today, and in order of trade preference (for me):

1. J. Johnson.

2. Sauce.

3. Hall.

4. Wilson.

Trading JJ is easy in my book.  Same for Sauce. 

-J.J. is a JAG/just serviceable player in my book, easily replaced. 

-Sauce is worth more in trade than he is not making INT's.

No way I trade elite O assets, but if I had to I trade Hall first, RB's are easier to find than WR's.

Defense doesn't win titles, Offense does.  

And yes, before the neg-reps flow, I'm well aware my view is unpopular here amongst the throngs of "elite D is bestest!" guys who always seem to think we're just one new 1st round draft pick Defender away from a title despite consistently being dead last in the league of scoring Offense lol.

JJ is a JAG? 
oh boy u opened a can of worms