We need receivers and JD wasted two thirds in getting Vera- tucker

[Jet Nut]

7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

His big sin is not the AVT trade but not taking WRs later in the draft. 

He made the same dumb mistake this year.   Tons of really good looking wr prospects thoughout this draft and through to later rounds and yet he takes two rbs, the easiest thing to find or his usual small linebackers or safety projects

He has these blinders on and just takes one wr a say we are good, mims, moore and now corley when big value for wr prospects are all over the place.

How do you put Corley with Mims and Moore, someone who hasn’t played a down other than to just keep repeating your same old whine.  Never mind that as players Moore and Mims couldn’t be less alike.  

Who,are the big value WRs we could have had?  Don’t want to hear about them 2 years down the road, anyone can re draft WRs.  Who? 

[32EBoozer]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

His big sin is not the AVT trade but not taking WRs later in the draft. 

He made the same dumb mistake this year.   Tons of really good looking wr prospects thoughout this draft and through to later rounds and yet he takes two rbs, the easiest thing to find or his usual small linebackers or safety projects

He has these blinders on and just takes one wr a say we are good, mims, moore and now corley when big value for wr prospects are all over the place.

We are moving to a gap system, beefing up the OL so we can protect our most valuable asset by running the ball. We have a true #1 back who, when he missed time, the running game collapsed. JD brought in two big, strong backs to keep the running game moving the ball. Having the 4th/5th round WR does nothing for us this year. We have GW, Williams, Gipson, Corley, Lazard, Conklin, Ruckert & Yeboah. 
 

We are going to rush the ball 400+ Garrett Wilson had 168 targets last year, oh next closest was Breece with 95 and Conklin with 87.

We have enough offensive weapons for Rodgers. What we needed was a developmental Qb, a solid #2 RB behind Breece, a slot Wr to push or replace Gipson. The only possible pick to go Wr was Davis and they went with the bruising back.  Quantez was the guy Urlich wanted.

Get over it and move on for goodness sake!

[slats]

I was initially against the AVT trade but then he looked good and I was like, “okay,” and then he had two season ending injuries and I’m back to being a little sour on it - but also I think revisiting the past is a tremendous waste of time and energy. Can’t fix what’s done, learn from it and move on. 
 
That said, I share some WR concerns. I was hoping to hear a lot more from Corley and Brownlee -who was getting some pre-camp hype- only to get nothing. Gipson playing well is certainly a positive, but there’s only so much upside to a 5’8” receiver. Corley got dinged, though, and they’re hyper-cautious about injuries, so I’m trying to keep my concerns to a minimum. I barely think about Mike Williams, either, but even if he’s not entirely ready week one and on a pitch count for a month or so (like Breece last year), he should still be a 60-800 guy. His game has a lot to do with his size, and he still has that. 
 
I still think the team could pick up a WR in the mini-draft. There were 35 WRs drafted this year, there will be some decent receivers hitting the waiver wire towards the end of camp. 

[Warfish]

So shoulda drafted JSN lol. 

[neckdemon]

16 hours ago, Beerfish said:

His big sin is not the AVT trade but not taking WRs later in the draft. 

He made the same dumb mistake this year.   Tons of really good looking wr prospects thoughout this draft and through to later rounds and yet he takes two rbs, the easiest thing to find or his usual small linebackers or safety projects

He has these blinders on and just takes one wr an say we are good, mims, moore and now corley when big value for wr prospects are all over the place.

tbf if rodgers goes down the plan is probably to just run the ball 70% of the time. tyrod taylor is trash. sure he stinks a bit less than zach wilson, but he is trash all the same. if rodgers goes down the only way we win any games is by time of possession, field position and trying to eek out a win in a defensive struggle

[Barton]

Rodgers has been here for 2 off seasons and JD has failed to add a legit 1k yard WR opposite Wilson. Really bad job by JD here. 

[extmenace]

19 hours ago, hmhertz said:

Same draft two receivers taken in the fourth signed big contracts

St. Brown 120 Mill for 4 years, Nico Collins 72 Mill 3 years

The chances those guys would have developed here are low. Just because players developed on one team doesn’t mean they’d have panned out here…

does anyone actually think Josh Allen would be considered one of the best qbs in the NFL if Gase drafted him?

[jamesr]

tbf if rodgers goes down the plan is probably to just run the ball 70% of the time. tyrod taylor is trash. sure he stinks a bit less than zach wilson, but he is trash all the same. if rodgers goes down the only way we win any games is by time of possession, field position and trying to eek out a win in a defensive struggle

Just like 2009 / 2010 then?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[jamesr]

O line was a real weak part of the team thanks to Donuts Macaganan ignoring it for so long. We needed to improve on that area so I can't fault JD for the intention. You can certainly criticise the "how" though.

Imagine the reverse situation - we draft a QB, give him more weapons but have an even worse OL in front of him (yes, that was possible). We'd all be ripping him even more for that instead.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Sperm Edwards]

12 hours ago, BradSmith16fan said:

I can't blame Douglas for Vera Tucker because the talent is there. The injuries that happened to him I think are freak things. Agree on Zach, never wanted him (I wanted Fields). If they weren't going to take Fields at that spot, I thought they should've kept Darnold and traded down for the haul. If it wasn't for injuries, do you think Tucker is the right pick? JD gets pass for me on him because he and his team scouted the talent correctly. With Zach, that was an all time Jets blunder because in my opinion that's a talent issue (mental processing talent). Add in, like you said, what SF was supposedly prepared to give up for him.

If Tucker was healthy it was still the wrong pick, clean prospect that he was, just because Douglas had no business trading up (at an additional cost of a pair of day-2 picks) for just a guard in an OL-rich draft. The 2021 team's rebuild had far too many needs to use three day 1-2 picks on a single guard prospect. If he uses all that draft capital in such a draft class, this had better be arguably best guard in the NFL and not merely the best guard prospect in this particular draft class. For all the slobbering over him, the reality was he let far too much pressure through as a rookie alone. 

Plenty here hated losing a pair of 3s was not an unsaid thing at the time, even by those who justifiably very much liked AVT as a prospect before & after we took him. What's painful is that two IOL prospects a number of amateur GMs posting here really wanted (badly) dropped to round 2, and both have badly outperformed AVT thus far even aside from the injuries. 

It was a draft of badly missed opportunities given the 5 day 1-2 picks they started with when the draft began. 

[rangerous]

12 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

 

The year he came here, the Jets had the worst roster in the NFL, by a large margin. Today, the Jets have a consensus top 5 roster in the NFL. 

If you think that's the mark of a bad GM or even an average GM, I don't know what to tell you. Those types of turn around aren't common

Be careful when you say they have a top five roster.  Maybe so but until this team starts playing all bets are off.  I think the point many are trying to make is that there were a host of players Douglas has missed on by not parlaying the draft.  AVT is a fine player but was he worth the two third round picks needed to move up and draft him?  Maybe not since hindsight is twenty- twenty.  Same thing with Zach and the two pick.

[The Crusher]

13 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

 

The year he came here, the Jets had the worst roster in the NFL, by a large margin. Today, the Jets have a consensus top 5 roster in the NFL. 

If you think that's the mark of a bad GM or even an average GM, I don't know what to tell you. Those types of turn around aren't common

That’s all true but it’s still just something you are reading off a computer. Until it translates to a winning season it seems more a starting point than a finish. Our pedigree way out runs our performance so far, 

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

Rodgers has been here for 2 off seasons and JD has failed to add a legit 1k yard WR opposite Wilson. Really bad job by JD here. 

Mike "I enjoy a THE&C Sandwich" Williams was just acquired this off season. He's a two-time 1K receiver.

[Claymation]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

That’s all true but it’s still just something you are reading off a computer. Until it translates to a winning season it seems more a starting point than a finish. Our pedigree way out runs our performance so far, 

The talent is there, its up to the coaching staff to get the most out of this roster. Can't fault JD for that except for him hiring Saleh.

From my point of view, JD has done a better job than Saleh.

[The Crusher]

10 minutes ago, Claymation said:

The talent is there, its up to the coaching staff to get the most out of this roster. Can't fault JD for that except for him hiring Saleh.

From my point of view, JD has done a better job than Saleh.

Ok, but whomever was the one that provided the impetus to pick Zach and trot him out three seasons in a row wears the dunce hat for sure. 

[Bowles Movement]

24 minutes ago, rangerous said:

Be careful when you say they have a top five roster.  Maybe so but until this team starts playing all bets are off.  I think the point many are trying to make is that there were a host of players Douglas has missed on by not parlaying the draft.  AVT is a fine player but was he worth the two third round picks needed to move up and draft him?  Maybe not since hindsight is twenty- twenty.  Same thing with Zach and the two pick.

You can play this game with every GM because no one hits 1.000.

Look at Baltimore SF and KC critically and you can find plenty of “ things”.

Has every Douglas maneuver been perfect?   The answer is clearly NO, but when you assess the overall team quality, it’s clear to just about everyone that this teams is eons ahead of what we had when he took over.  You can talk about the W-L record as that is the ultimate measuring stick, but you’d have to admit that without the Rodgers injury on the 4 th play of the season, we would have won at least 10-11 games last year and made the playoffs last year.

If anybody here thinks the Jets don’t beat win the Vegas over/under of 9.5 I’d be happy to make a wager.

 

[Claymation]

2 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Ok, but whomever was the one that provided the impetus to pick Zach and trot him out three seasons in a row wears the dunce hat for sure. 

They acquired Rodgers, to rectify that mistake. I am not saying JD is infallible, but he does see his mistakes and moves on from them.

Saleh started Boyle a 2nd time. 

[EM31]

Draft day do-overs..... Oy vey

[Biggs]

19 hours ago, BradSmith16fan said:

Doesn't the 2022 draft and the drafting of defensive michael Carter, plus his trade history, give him average gm status? Understand Becton, Zach, Mims, and to lesser extent Moore brings him to woeful gm status, but Sauce, Wilson, and Hall are arguably elite players in the NFL at there position and he got them in 1 draft. Jermaine Johnson has a chance to blossom even more, and he's been solid. Carter is top level slot corner found in later round.

For the Jets he's been above average.  For the NFL below average.  Picking Saleh as his first HC and Zach as his first QB has to be considered in the mix.

[The Crusher]

21 minutes ago, Claymation said:

They acquired Rodgers, to rectify that mistake. I am not saying JD is infallible, but he does see his mistakes and moves on from them.

Saleh started Boyle a 2nd time. 

I agree. But the signature of the three year  Zach attack was “ F plan B!” They acted like they had the next NFL ready QB like they were rolling Andrew Luck out there when they drafted Zack. Then they bet the house on AR8 but leave Zach as the back up? Just nuts dude! 

[Bobby816]

How do we need a WR?

Trust me I've been the one for 20 years been saying we need to upgrade at WR.

But right now we have a great group.

Garrett Wilson is a top 10 WR and that's with bad QB play. With good QB play he could be in the top 5 category. This point can't be bigger. Most teams don't have a star WR. We do.

Next we have Mike Williams who is one of the best #2 WRs in the NFL. Yes he's coming off an ACL injury. But he tore it (week 3 I believe) and has had a long time to recover. Breece who uses his quickness more so than MW does tore his week 8 and was good to go for the season. And actually got a good amount of work in in TC. I expect MW to get reps in TC at some point. Not just be a guy working on the side all of TC hoping to ready week 1. I think he's ahead of what Breece was. And given his playing style isn't being a fast quick player. His knee wont affect him as much. With MW we have a top 5 50/50 ball guy as well as a downfield target.

IMO we have a top 10 WR duo.

Now to what I think separates us from the rest of the pack and brings us into the top 5 WR trio conversation is Corley. He's a get the ball in his hands and go to work type WR. Rarely does the 1st guy take him down. He compliments what we have in the WR room great. All of our top 3 WRs do something great and different. None of them are alike. No team can really say that except a few.

Then you even look after that we have Lazard. A guy that for us was supposed to be a #2 WR with Rodgers but just played awful. And I as well as everyone else am sour on Lazard. But as a 4th WR that just a couple years ago with our QB had nearly 800yds and 6 TDs. I fully expect him to bounce back with Rodgers at QB. Not to that stat line mentioned. But to what will be a great stat line for a #4 WR. Let's also not forget about his blocking ability. Which will be crucial on the outside when trying to get Corley and Hall in space. One could argue we have one the best WR4s in the NFL.

Now after that we have what most NFL teams depth chart looks like at 5 and 6. UDFA who haven't done much. And that's what we have in guys like Gipson, Brownlee and Charles. Likely the 2 best guys that can offer something ST wise win those spots

[bicketybam]

9 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

How do we need a WR?

Trust me I've been the one for 20 years been saying we need to upgrade at WR.

But right now we have a great group.

Garrett Wilson is a top 10 WR and that's with bad QB play. With good QB play he could be in the top 5 category. This point can't be bigger. Most teams don't have a star WR. We do.

Next we have Mike Williams who is one of the best #2 WRs in the NFL. Yes he's coming off an ACL injury. But he tore it (week 3 I believe) and has had a long time to recover. Breece who uses his quickness more so than MW does tore his week 8 and was good to go for the season. And actually got a good amount of work in in TC. I expect MW to get reps in TC at some point. Not just be a guy working on the side all of TC hoping to ready week 1. I think he's ahead of what Breece was. And given his playing style isn't being a fast quick player. His knee wont affect him as much. With MW we have a top 5 50/50 ball guy as well as a downfield target.

IMO we have a top 10 WR duo.

Now to what I think separates us from the rest of the pack and brings us into the top 5 WR trio conversation is Corley. He's a get the ball in his hands and go to work type WR. Rarely does the 1st guy take him down. He compliments what we have in the WR room great. All of our top 3 WRs do something great and different. None of them are alike. No team can really say that except a few.

Then you even look after that we have Lazard. A guy that for us was supposed to be a #2 WR with Rodgers but just played awful. And I as well as everyone else am sour on Lazard. But as a 4th WR that just a couple years ago with our QB had nearly 800yds and 6 TDs. I fully expect him to bounce back with Rodgers at QB. Not to that stat line mentioned. But to what will be a great stat line for a #4 WR. Let's also not forget about his blocking ability. Which will be crucial on the outside when trying to get Corley and Hall in space. One could argue we have one the best WR4s in the NFL.

Now after that we have what most NFL teams depth chart looks like at 5 and 6. UDFA who haven't done much. And that's what we have in guys like Gipson, Brownlee and Charles. Likely the 2 best guys that can offer something ST wise win those spots

Garrett Wilson is not a top 10 receiver. Yet. He was 22nd in yards last year. I understand who was throwing him the ball so that's why I wrote "yet."

[Claymation]

29 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

I agree. But the signature of the three year  Zach attack was “ F plan B!” They acted like they had the next NFL ready QB like they were rolling Andrew Luck out there when they drafted Zack. Then they bet the house on AR8 but leave Zach as the back up? Just nuts dude! 

Let's assume that no one else had a say and this is all on JD. 

Aaron has been the epitome of health, plus Zach's cap hit was high enough to make it difficult to move him. They had issues with depth on the OL which compounded the decision to allow Zach be the primary backup. They rolled snake eyes, and with Aaron down they had no chance to make a serious run at the Super Bowl.

JD revamped the team, and are in the midst of making another run.

JD has now moved on from Zach, because of poor play, fans hating him and the media as well. Moved on from Mekhi for the same reasons. I don't think they saw Zach as Andrew Luck at the start of the season last year. I believe they saw him as a necessary problem they had to endure, unfortunately Rodgers got injured.

[Bobby816]

21 minutes ago, bicketybam said:

Garrett Wilson is not a top 10 receiver. Yet. He was 22nd in yards last year. I understand who was throwing him the ball so that's why I wrote "yet."

You're going by stats which then a QB has to be considered. I'm going based on talent. And for me GW is a top 10 talented WR.

[The Crusher]

17 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Let's assume that no one else had a say and this is all on JD. 

Aaron has been the epitome of health, plus Zach's cap hit was high enough to make it difficult to move him. They had issues with depth on the OL which compounded the decision to allow Zach be the primary backup. They rolled snake eyes, and with Aaron down they had no chance to make a serious run at the Super Bowl.

JD revamped the team, and are in the midst of making another run.

JD has now moved on from Zach, because of poor play, fans hating him and the media as well. Moved on from Mekhi for the same reasons. I don't think they saw Zach as Andrew Luck at the start of the season last year. I believe they saw him as a necessary problem they had to endure, unfortunately Rodgers got injured.

I agree but you don't spend 100 million on a QB to play instead of your QB you have just to have that QB go back in if the other one got hurt. No matter how healthy he's been even the immortal Brady got dinged later in his career. Zach should have been a very distant third QB since they labeled him some sort of goofy reclamation product. That was the mistake last year. Not sure who was ultimately responsible for that, but F they guy, he's a dumb dumb.

[doitny]

7 minutes ago, extmenace said:

The chances those guys would have developed here are low. Just because players developed on one team doesn’t mean they’d have panned out here…

does anyone actually think Josh Allen would be considered one of the best qbs in the NFL if Gase drafted him?

i disagree. i think a coach can coach up players to get a little more out of some but not turn them from bad into one of the best. and i think its easier for a position player to get coached into being a good player than a QB. 

Daboll for example gets credit for Allen. but Daniel Jones isnt so great. why cant he turn him into one of the best? there might have been slight improvement from Jones but if he has another 15 TDs in 16 games season he isnt getting resigned.

Parcells coached up Ray Lucas to go 6-3 one year for us and Quincy Carter to go 11-5 for Dallas but you never heard from the again.

QBs either have it between the ears or not. i dont think you can coach that up.

i think Allen would have got it with Gase too. 

[JustInFudge]

16 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

How would you rank Ozzie Newsome as a GM? First qb he drafted was Kyle boller. 

Lynch traded way up for Trey Lance

While true, the 19th overall pick is a little bit different than 2nd overall and there is a story out there that Brian Billick was pounding the table for Boller because he saw him throw the ball 70 yards on his knees and Newsome didnt want him because he couldnt complete the ball at high percentage.

[FidelioJet]

16 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

 

The year he came here, the Jets had the worst roster in the NFL, by a large margin. Today, the Jets have a consensus top 5 roster in the NFL. 

If you think that's the mark of a bad GM or even an average GM, I don't know what to tell you. Those types of turn around aren't common

We have to be the fan base in all of sports with the lowest possible expectations.  

The Jets have a bottom 5 record in the entire league through JD's tenure.  And we have fans glorifying him.

 

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

They acquired Rodgers, to rectify that mistake. I am not saying JD is infallible, but he does see his mistakes and moves on from them.

Saleh started Boyle a 2nd time. 

putting boyle in twice and not benching tomlinson are two very obvious indications that saleh is clueless about the offense.  he might get away with saying semien wasn't ready but he was there for five weeks before finally getting in.  and tomlinson had some pretty poor games.

[Claymation]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I agree but you don't spend 100 million on a QB to play instead of your QB you have just to have that QB go back in if the other one got hurt. No matter how healthy he's been even the immortal Brady got dinged later in his career. Zach should have been a very distant third QB since they labeled him some sort of goofy reclamation product. That was the mistake last year. Not sure who was ultimately responsible for that, but F they guy, he's a dumb dumb.

I get what you are saying, but they were saddled with Zach and the guaranteed contract. And if they got someone else, they were still not making a run at the Super Bowl.

[Claymation]

21 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

We have to be the fan base in all of sports with the lowest possible expectations.  

The Jets have a bottom 5 record in the entire league through JD's tenure.  And we have fans glorifying him.

 

While true, are the NY Jets positioned to make a Super Bowl run in 2024? And if not, why?

[bicketybam]

Just now, Claymation said:

While true, are the NY Jets positioned to make a Super Bowl run in 2024? And if not, why?

He's going to say, "Aaron Rodgers." 

[Claymation]

13 minutes ago, rangerous said:

putting boyle in twice and not benching tomlinson are two very obvious indications that saleh is clueless about the offense.  he might get away with saying semien wasn't ready but he was there for five weeks before finally getting in.  and tomlinson had some pretty poor games.

He played Cook when it was obvious to the entire fan base that he was well...done. Played Newman and Mitchel when they were incapable of maintaining a block.

[Barry McCockinner]

17 minutes ago, rangerous said:

putting boyle in twice and not benching tomlinson are two very obvious indications that saleh is clueless about the offense.  he might get away with saying semien wasn't ready but he was there for five weeks before finally getting in.  and tomlinson had some pretty poor games.

Excuse me, Saleh was a TE in college.

[Bowles Movement]

27 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

We have to be the fan base in all of sports with the lowest possible expectations.  

The Jets have a bottom 5 record in the entire league through JD's tenure.  And we have fans glorifying him.

 

How about we have fans that look at more than one thing when making an assessment of the progress made?

Do you think we have a better team talent and depth than we did 5 years ago?  What is your best guess on their record this year?