Be ready for a new regime in 2025

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Biggs said:

In fairness I hate Woody and being a long time Jets fans I probably hate the Jets slighly more than necessary.

I've said this before, and I still think it's true:

Jets Fans handle losing, especially consistent losing, in two different ways.

1. They primarily aim their criticisms at the team and it's management and/or players.

2. They primarily aim their criticism at their fellow fans, and hate them for not believing as hard as they do.

Pretty obvious who is who, some guys entire post history at JN is just attacking fans for their opinions on the team or for their criticism or their pessimism, with nary an actual comment on the team itself or an original thought of their own beyond "we're awesome, we're gonna win, other fans will be mad when we win", lol.

[Biggs]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I've said this before, and I still think it's true:

Jets Fans handle losing, especially consistent losing, in two different ways.

1. They primarily aim their criticisms at the team and it's management and/or players.

2. They primarily aim their criticism at their fellow fans, and hate them for not believing as hard as they do.

Pretty obvious who is who, some guys entire post history at JN is just attacking fans for their opinions on the team or for their criticism or their pessimism, with nary an actual comment on the team itself or an original thought of their own beyond "we're awesome, we're gonna win, other fans will be mad when we win", lol.

I look at it JN more like an AA meeting.  The negative fans have reached bottom and there is potential for rehab and a positive outcome.  The positive fans have a ways to go before they hit bottom.  Clasic denial.  They are less likely to get a positive outcome from the ongoing discussion.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Mangenius is long gone.

 

No.  It's not him.  It's the overall #2 pick wasted on Zach, followed by hanging on to Zach a minimum of one year too many. Positional value.  And there are so many others as well like Blair Thomas, all of Rex Ryan's/Mccagnan's bust DLs & DBs..  Pryor, milner... good lord we have had so many 1st round busts, it boggles the mind.  But after 59 years of watching this team, I hereby proclaim:

Zach Wilson is the worst 1st round draft pick (thereby the worst pick, value wise) in the history of the New York Jets. 

Many worthy opponents to win that contest, but in the end, Joe Douglas is the one who made it.  I do not believe in zero accountability, but I do believe in change and hoping that JD's brain has improved.

AFAIC, Last chance brother.  Or it's the pretzyl shredder for JD.

[AFJF]

7 minutes ago, Dcat said:

No.  It's not him.  It's the overall #2 pick wasted on Zach, followed by hanging on to Zach a minimum of one year too many. Positional value.  And there are so many others as well like Blair Thomas, all of Rex Ryan's/Mccagnan's bust DLs & DBs..  Pryor, milner... good lord we have had so many 1st round busts, it boggles the mind.  But after 59 years of watching this team, I hereby proclaim:

Zach Wilson is the worst 1st round draft pick (thereby the worst pick, value wise) in the history of the New York Jets. 

Many worthy opponents to win that contest, but in the end, Joe Douglas is the one who made it.  I do not believe in zero accountability, but I do believe in change and hoping that JD's brain has improved.

AFAIC, Last chance brother.  Or it's the pretzyl shredder for JD.

This is simply recency bias.

Vernon Gholston didn't register a single NFL sack in his career.  

For Wilson to be on par with him, he would have had to have never thrown a touchdown pass.

Wilson had days that gave you hope.

Gholston only gave you days that you hoped he'd get cut.

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

This is simply recency bias.

Vernon Gholston didn't register a single NFL sack in his career.  

For Wilson to be on par with him, he would have had to have never thrown a touchdown pass.

Wilson had days that gave you hope.

Gholston only gave you days that you hoped he'd get cut.

I don't agree.  IMO, QB value supersedes Edge/DE enough to say that Zach had a worse impact on this franchise than did Vernon Ghost-on.  He's definitely my #2.  To each his own.  Just opinion here.

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, AFJF said:

This is simply recency bias.

Vernon Gholston didn't register a single NFL sack in his career.  

For Wilson to be on par with him, he would have had to have never thrown a touchdown pass.

Wilson had days that gave you hope.

Gholston only gave you days that you hoped he'd get cut.

The combination of Becton and Zach back to back was one of the worst two drafts by a new Jets GM ever.   The Gholston pick was terrible.  The same GM in his rookie year drafted Revis the year before and his first draft was D'Brick and Mangold.

[AFJF]

12 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The combination of Becton and Zach back to back was one of the worst two drafts by a new Jets GM ever.   The Gholston pick was terrible.  The same GM in his rookie year drafted Revis the year before and his first draft was D'Brick and Mangold.

Daniel Jeremiah compared Becton to Walter Jones after his rookie year.

 

I'm not doing the revisionist history thing about how Becton looked before GVR destroyed the guy's knee.

 

There's not anything a GM can do to prevent a dude from getting a career altering injury.

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

JD should be fired for his teams performance under his watch-his record abysmal 29 games under 500-if the team fails again yes he should be fired-but as noted if they succeed you extend him-I believe this is a must win/show results season for the Jets and Joe and I am hardly alone in this. I dont think you keep giving a guy a pass for bad performance . 

If the Jets fail to make the playoffs are in favor of keeping him? How long do you give him? Parcells took a 1-15 team to the AFC championship not long after-one could argue Parcells cost us Peyton but he got results. 

I referenced other teams that did rebuilds in the same or shorter time frame with better results

lions texans jags and even the bears(but we need to see it not just on paper) I notice you did not reference them- and as to the browns yes their rebuild has gone better so far-they managed to go to the playoffs with no QB, the stud RB hurt and Cooper playing hurt-they 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t reference the Lions or Texans as they are “ahead” Of the Jets as they have good rosters AND have QB figured out for 5 years (lions) and 12 years (Texans) respectively. 

I don’t believe that JD deserves to be fired because he has shown an ability to develop young talent, and hit on high picks as well as mid/late picks with a success rate that puts him in the upper echelon of GMs. 

Did he whiff on Zach, Becton, Mims and signings like Kahil - absolutely but I see the good far outweighing the bad and I just don’t see putting as much blame for our record on him as I do someone like Saleh. 

I also see the argument of “well Saleh is his guy” as also subject because the entire league wanted to hire Saleh at the time. Now if we falter again and he sticks with him - different story, but I think our roster talent and depth is enough to keep him here long term. 

[JKlecko]

3 hours ago, Bronx said:

Never forget who drafted the biggest bust in the history of the team.

Yes, he was a colossal bust, but if you'll recall, that was during the Covid season when JD didn't attend any games, and I don't think either the scouts of JD ever got to talk to Zach, his teammates or coaches in person.  They did phone calls and zoom meetings, but it's different when you speak with someone in person.  Zach was also the 2nd best QB prospect in that draft.  Perhaps JD looked at what the QB class was going to be like the next year, and knew that he needed to get a QB that year.  As bad a QB class as it has turned out to be, it still is better than the one from the following year.

JD compounded the mistake of drafting Zach by not having an experienced OC and QB Coach and by not acquiring a veteran QB to start and let Zach sit.

Still, that doesn't mean he should be fired.  We have a strong, deep roster thanks to his efforts.  You can't possibly believe that Woody Johnson would be able to hire anyone who could be any better.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I've said this before, and I still think it's true:

Jets Fans handle losing, especially consistent losing, in two different ways.

1. They primarily aim their criticisms at the team and it's management and/or players.

2. They primarily aim their criticism at their fellow fans, and hate them for not believing as hard as they do.

Pretty obvious who is who, some guys entire post history at JN is just attacking fans for their opinions on the team or for their criticism or their pessimism, with nary an actual comment on the team itself or an original thought of their own beyond "we're awesome, we're gonna win, other fans will be mad when we win", lol.

Yup. There are two types of Jets fans: those that blast the Jets for sucking and those that blast other Jets fans who blast the Jets for sucking.

[varjet]

From my perspective:

• JD was completely unprepared for his first draft with Covid and did not know how to deal with, manage and interpret the leftover scouts from many prior regimes. 
• His second draft was a bit better-remember Woody telling Zach “he knew him better than his own children.”   I think Woody encouraged JD to take a chance on Zach because he did not want to give Darnold a second contract/option year.  That is just my personal opinion though.  
• His third draft was an all time great one.  Up and down but at least average after that.
• The lame duck year seems kind of weak.  JD/Saleh should have either gotten a short extension/raise or fired.  I think there is enough positive looking stuff at this point to give them an extension.  But Woody has no bargaining position now.  I can easily see this blowing up and Woody being stuck with no GM, no coach, and both of them ending up on a team like the Dolphins. 

[Biggs]

27 minutes ago, varjet said:

From my perspective:

• JD was completely unprepared for his first draft with Covid and did not know how to deal with, manage and interpret the leftover scouts from many prior regimes. 
• His second draft was a bit better-remember Woody telling Zach “he knew him better than his own children.”   I think Woody encouraged JD to take a chance on Zach because he did not want to give Darnold a second contract/option year.  That is just my personal opinion though.  
• His third draft was an all time great one.  Up and down but at least average after that.
• The lame duck year seems kind of weak.  JD/Saleh should have either gotten a short extension/raise or fired.  I think there is enough positive looking stuff at this point to give them an extension.  But Woody has no bargaining position now.  I can easily see this blowing up and Woody being stuck with no GM, no coach, and both of them ending up on a team like the Dolphins. 

I could never see JD dumping McDaniel for Saleh.   I think if JD had a chance to pick a new HC for a new team or the Jets Saleh wouldn't get an interview.

[kmnj]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Yup. There are two types of Jets fans: those that blast the Jets for sucking and those that blast other Jets fans who blast the Jets for sucking.

there is also history to contend with-I have seen 300+ games in person-you get to a point where you see the ship heading towards an iceberg because you have chartered these same waters before over and over again and eventually you want to see actual results which means winning games and going to the playoffs -the "we have a great roster " is often greatly overstated due to HOPE

[Biggs]

2 hours ago, AFJF said:

Daniel Jeremiah compared Becton to Walter Jones after his rookie year.

 

I'm not doing the revisionist history thing about how Becton looked before GVR destroyed the guy's knee.

 

There's not anything a GM can do to prevent a dude from getting a career altering injury.

Walter Jones played college ball at 265 until he bulked up to play tackle at 290.   He was 6'5" with long arms.  He got a lot bigger over the years.  He didn't come into the NFL overweight or show up year 2 completely out of shape.  

Becton was an absolute blown pick.  The chalk pick was on the board in Whirfs.  Whiff.

[Doggin94it]

2 hours ago, kmnj said:

that is pure nonsense-he has been here longer than the avg nlf players career-Joe is not in year one two or three 

During the same time frame-the Browns Texans Lions Jaqs all did rebuilds and all achieved better results. The Bears are about to leap frog us as well. 

How long does he need to "build the ship back " 10 years?  Lets keep in mind when he started to rebuild the shop in your example-the first thing one does is build the foundation-how did Joe do that?   Wilson Becton and Mims-all gone all major busts. Joe also hired the foreman in charge of the operation-Saleh .....

Last year was to be the year the jets were "all in" it failed.

This year has to be the year Joe is held accountable -his coach , his players , his plan-this is a results oriented business like any other-at some point you have to have results. If Joe's team and it is his team goes on a playoff run then you say Joe achieved the desired results and you extend him-if the teams busts out yet again you fire him-the real scary thing is if the teams  sucks there is no viable QB in the room (Arod will be gone if they suck this year) so once again Joe will be moving on to once again try to address the QB position.

 

 

And yet you've hated him since the day he was hired

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Really?  I'd say the 2009/2010 Jets were very close.  The 1985/1986 Jets were also very close.  Rodgers is the clear upgrade of today, but some of those past teams were superior at other key spots.

Again, hyperbole like "easily the best" exposes you as either ignorant of best talented teams of "the past 40 years" or just blowing hot air.

I don't think the 2009-2010 team was anywhere near close. Even taking the QB out of the equation, the current team is:

Wildly better at RB (Breece/Allen v. Jones/Greene)

Wildly better at WR (the Jets top receivers in 2009 were Jerricho Cotchery and Chansi Stuckey

Better at TE (Conklin/Ruckert v. Keller/Hartsock)

Worse at OL. (that 2009 OL was elite, though if healthy we currently have a better LT)

Significantly better at DL (JJ/Kinlaw/Q/Reddick v. Ellis/Pouha/Douglas/B. Thomas)

Push at LB (Mosely/Williams v. Harris/Pace/Scott)

Better at CB (Sauce/Reed/Carter v. Revis/Sheppard/Drew Coleman)

Better at S (Clark/Adams v. Smith/Rhodes)

The 2010/11 team was much improved at WR (Edwards/Holmes is comparable to but worse than Wilson/Williams) and CB2 (Cro for Sheppard) worse at LG (Slauson!), and otherwise primarily the same. 

What makes this team so much better than those is the depth - those Jets rosters were thiiiiin as hell. They basically had no depth. Best backup LB in 2010? Josh Mauga. No. 3 CB? Kyle Wilson. Backup D-line? Jamaal Westerman, Jarron Gilbert, Trevor Pryce ...

Just no comparison

 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

there is also history to contend with-I have seen 300+ games in person-you get to a point where you see the ship heading towards an iceberg because you have chartered these same waters before over and over again and eventually you want to see actual results which means winning games and going to the playoffs -the "we have a great roster " is often greatly overstated due to HOPE

I don’t fault hope. I do fault those who use hope as an inquisitorial cudgel in some blood ritual of fandom purity testing.

[jgb]

6 hours ago, Dcat said:

No.  It's not him.  It's the overall #2 pick wasted on Zach, followed by hanging on to Zach a minimum of one year too many. Positional value.  And there are so many others as well like Blair Thomas, all of Rex Ryan's/Mccagnan's bust DLs & DBs..  Pryor, milner... good lord we have had so many 1st round busts, it boggles the mind.  But after 59 years of watching this team, I hereby proclaim:

Zach Wilson is the worst 1st round draft pick (thereby the worst pick, value wise) in the history of the New York Jets. 

Many worthy opponents to win that contest, but in the end, Joe Douglas is the one who made it.  I do not believe in zero accountability, but I do believe in change and hoping that JD's brain has improved.

AFAIC, Last chance brother.  Or it's the pretzyl shredder for JD.

The biggest mistake wasn't keeping Zach too long. It wasn't even drafting Zach as no one has cracked the code on how to extrapolate college QB performance to the pros with any repeatable consistency (except, apparently, the Packers lol). The thirst for FQBs is so great, you pretty much have to over-draft your guy before someone else does.

JD's biggest mistake was rolling into 2023 with Zach as the unchallenged and undisputed backup QB and nothing stings worse than an easily-avoidable, unforced error.

[UntouchableCrew]

6 hours ago, AFJF said:

This is simply recency bias.

Vernon Gholston didn't register a single NFL sack in his career.  

For Wilson to be on par with him, he would have had to have never thrown a touchdown pass.

Wilson had days that gave you hope.

Gholston only gave you days that you hoped he'd get cut.

I think it's the exact opposite. The fact that Gholston simply never played and was invisible makes him far less of a bust. Hell right after we drafted him we had the best defense in franchise history and were a game from the Super Bowl.

We were forced to watch three years of Zach Wilson -- he almost single handedly destroyed an otherwise successful rebuild. His selection was far, far more damaging to the New York Jets.

[bicketybam]

19 minutes ago, jgb said:

nothing stings worse than an easily-avoidable, unforced error.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

 

Wildly better at WR (the Jets top receivers in 2009 were Jerricho Cotchery and Chansi Stuckey

 

Just pointing out that we had Braylon Edwards for the majority of that season, who was really good. Cotchery was probably better than our #2 WR right now, too.

[doitny]

On 8/13/2024 at 8:52 AM, extmenace said:

Been saying this basically from free agency on. No long term deals given, no big trades that impact future drafts, no extensions. JD was given a short leash this year. Woody is giving them one last chance in a way that won’t hurt this team if they have to clean house. Thats why we saw the one year deals and that’s also why there is literally zero chance Reddick is getting a big extension. JD isn’t allowed to do it. 

i can understand cleaning house on the HC and GM if we dont win but the roster is pretty good. i wouldnt want to see that house cleaned. so it doesnt make sense not to give out big contracts.

but i have a theory on that. its not because of a short lease that you dont see that, its that we have big contracts coming up. GW is going to cost a ton. WRs are making crazy money now. Hall and Sause wont be cheap either. and if JJ takes another step forward thats another big deal. 

i really like DJ and he is only 27. we should resign him. we have to keep Quincy Williams who is also 27 and in the 2nd year of a 3 year deal. guy is one of the best LBers in the game. and if AVT can stay healthy he is getting a raise too.

imagine not being able to sign 2 or 3 of the guys i mentioned because we gave out some big long term deals just to try to win one SB. its not worth it to lose some of these guys.

 

 

[Jet Nut]

On 8/13/2024 at 6:47 AM, TuscanyTile2 said:

With their shiny new savior QB!

It wasn’t funny the first 500 times you’ve tried this

[bicketybam]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

It wasn’t funny the first 500 times you’ve tried this

Better that his Saleh golf jokes!

[OilfieldJet]

7 hours ago, Biggs said:

I look at it JN more like an AA meeting.  The negative fans have reached bottom and there is potential for rehab and a positive outcome.  The positive fans have a ways to go before they hit bottom.  Clasic denial.  They are less likely to get a positive outcome from the ongoing discussion.

I like it, the 12 steps for being a Jets fan. 
 

Step 1: Admit the problem….

[Joe W. Namath]

This thread is heaven for the d-i-s-e-a-s-e.

Pathetic.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

6 hours ago, AFJF said:

Daniel Jeremiah compared Becton to Walter Jones after his rookie year.

 

I'm not doing the revisionist history thing about how Becton looked before GVR destroyed the guy's knee.

 

There's not anything a GM can do to prevent a dude from getting a career altering injury.

Becton was absolutely nothing special his rookie year. This narrative needs to die already. It was nonsense then and and it's even more absurd now.

Gave up a ton of sacks and took a lot of penalties. Among the most in the league.

 

[Trotter]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

No.  It's not him.  It's the overall #2 pick wasted on Zach, followed by hanging on to Zach a minimum of one year too many. Positional value.  And there are so many others as well like Blair Thomas, all of Rex Ryan's/Mccagnan's bust DLs & DBs..  Pryor, milner... good lord we have had so many 1st round busts, it boggles the mind.  But after 59 years of watching this team, I hereby proclaim:

Zach Wilson is the worst 1st round draft pick (thereby the worst pick, value wise) in the history of the New York Jets. 

Many worthy opponents to win that contest, but in the end, Joe Douglas is the one who made it.  I do not believe in zero accountability, but I do believe in change and hoping that JD's brain has improved.

AFAIC, Last chance brother.  Or it's the pretzyl shredder for JD.

Well said brother - well said

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

Yup. There are two types of Jets fans: those that blast the Jets for sucking and those that blast other Jets fans who blast the Jets for sucking.

That’s it?

Says who?

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Becton was absolutely nothing special his rookie year. This narrative needs to die already. It was nonsense then and and it's even more absurd now.

Gave up a ton of sacks and took a lot of penalties. Among the most in the league.

 

Absolute nonsense.  
The “he was nothing” bit of revisionist history needs to stop.  

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

That’s it?

Says who?

I guess me and Warfish

[Prodigal Syndicate]

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Absolute nonsense.  
The “he was nothing” bit of revisionist history needs to stop.  

 

[AFJF]

32 minutes ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

Becton was absolutely nothing special his rookie year. This narrative needs to die already. It was nonsense then and and it's even more absurd now.

Gave up a ton of sacks and took a lot of penalties. Among the most in the league.

 

A rookie can make mistakes and still do enough to show flashes of greatness.  That's what Becton did and that's why DJ compared him to a HoF tackle.

 

[TuscanyTile2]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

It wasn’t funny the first 500 times you’ve tried this

It is to me. 

[Prodigal Syndicate]

4 minutes ago, AFJF said:

A rookie can make mistakes and still do enough to show flashes of greatness.  That's what Becton did and that's why DJ compared him to a HoF tackle.

 

Who cares. The league history is filled with busts that  "showed flashes"

 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, bicketybam said:

My first sports memory watching this game with my dad. @SouthernJet