Tua back to practice with team.

[More Cowbell]

There comes a time that someone has to step in and save the player from themselves.  This is one of those times. I mean does someone have to die before the league will say, you are too fragile to play this game. 

[JetPotato]

Even though it's the Dolphins, this situation just makes me sad. Hope he avoids the almost certain outcome here.

[JetsMetsDevilsPA]

Ultimately, it's his choice and I am sure everyone under the sun has explained the risks to himself and his family.  Hopefully he can stay on his feet.  

[Nick Fangold]

The NFL PA would have to fight the league on that and would win

[jeremy2020]

He has some of the best experts on concussions in the world evaluating him and giving him information. He's an adult and can make his choice.

[Maxta_p]

Seems like Tua would rather get CTE than wear a guardian cap

[PFSIKH]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

There comes a time that someone has to step in and save the player from themselves.  This is one of those times. I mean does someone have to die before the league will say, you are too fragile to play this game. 

Well, he said he loves the game "to the death of me".

The blowback might be less if he would wear the guardian cap which he shot down quickly.

[Pac]

The last couple years I felt bad for him but at this point it's whatever..  Good luck. 

[Bobby816]

Him playing again should be his 1st sign of CTE. This is where the NFL has to be better. Decisions like this shouldn't be left in the players hands. These are guys who care about football over there health, hence why they do this as a career and they need to be protected from themselves.

 

Especially when you have a TON of money you'd still get if you never play a down again. 

[BigRy56]

Retirement was never actually on the table. Tua's an athlete - it's his life and his dice roll to take. It's easy for outsiders to judge the situation with a sense of clarity but it is not that cut and dry when you have dedicated your entire life to something mentally and physically

[kmnj]

Nothing bugs me more than when people try to tell others what they should do. Tua is an adult with free will and it is his choice to play football  or not play football and he knows all of the risks. There are plenty of people that have more dangerous jobs and lots of them have no choice but to go to work everyday to survive.  Tua is making the choice to play that is what he thinks is best for him and he will be the one that has to deal with the consequences if things go bad.

 

 

[Barry McCockinner]

2 minutes ago, kmnj said:

Nothing bugs me more than when people try to tell others what they should do. Tua is an adult with free will and it is his choice to play football  or not play football and he knows all of the risks. There are plenty of people that have more dangerous jobs and lots of them have no choice but to go to work everyday to survive.  Tua is making the choice to play that is what he thinks is best for him and he will be the one that has to deal with the consequences if things go bad.

 

 

There's a difference between telling someone what to do an expressing your opinion on what they should do.

I think Tua is an idiot and I won't have any sympathy when he's all f'd up as he ages. He made his own bed.

[jeremy2020]

37 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Him playing again should be his 1st sign of CTE. This is where the NFL has to be better. Decisions like this shouldn't be left in the players hands. These are guys who care about football over there health, hence why they do this as a career and they need to be protected from themselves.

Especially when you have a TON of money you'd still get if you never play a down again. 

We have no idea what the experts who have actually evaluated him have said about the risks. There's many players who have had more concussions than Tua has had that are playing. If current medical knowledge says that he can play then on what basis does the NFL say he can't? Where's the line to make the determination? If they're not using a medical basis to make it..how do you define it?

The NFL would never simply be allowed to tell a player he can't play. The NFLPA would certainly step in and prevent the NFL from doing this.

[Prodigal Syndicate]

I guess it gets into a conversation of when should the league step in? Ever?

It's very probable Tua is already suffering from CTE and it's shaping his choices. His refusal to even wear a guardian cap is bizarre.

I think he's a fun QB to watch and you see how the Dolphins fall apart without him but I wish he would retire. It's just sad all around. You already know he will get another at some point. It won't stop. Every time he goes down you have to hold your breath watching him.

[batman10023]

why won't he wear a gardian cap?  is his helmet already better?  or does it not provide benefit to QBs?

 

the only other option would be for the dolphins to make him inactive for each game.  force him to retire.  i doubt they will do that.

[JetPotato]

3 hours ago, JetsMetsDevilsPA said:

Ultimately, it's his choice and I am sure everyone under the sun has explained the risks to himself and his family.  Hopefully he can stay on his feet.  

I tend to think there are people in his orbit that AREN'T fully explaining the risks to him. Story as old as time.

[MykePM]

52 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Him playing again should be his 1st sign of CTE. This is where the NFL has to be better. Decisions like this shouldn't be left in the players hands. These are guys who care about football over there health, hence why they do this as a career and they need to be protected from themselves.

Especially when you have a TON of money you'd still get if you never play a down again. 

Which is another way of saying that the owner of the Dolphins would have to pay a ton of money that he'll get absolutely no return on, which will likely cause his team to fail, leading to the potential loss of more money.  The NFL only cares about player safety when it has to, and it is actually in their interest for Tua to be on the field.  It will likely take Tua experiencing much more serious consequences (coma or, god forbid, dying) before the owners would be motivated to give up money over a player's safety (and, cynically, even then it would be to minimize the PR damage to their brand).  Until then, they're willing to take the risk and point to Tua's right to make this decision, if necessary.

[Dunnie]

Someone please have him talk to Al Toon or Wayne Chrebet.

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[jeremy2020]

1 minute ago, batman10023 said:

why won't he wear a guardian cap?  is his helmet already better?  or does it not provide benefit to QBs?

the only other option would be for the dolphins to make him inactive for each game.  force him to retire.  i doubt they will do that.

For most positions, it's said that the guardian cap does not affect performance. However, QB is the one place where it's said that there is some impact because it does limit peripheral vision to a minor extent.

I'd probably make a different personal choice if it was me, but I don't have all the information that he does.

[Dunnie]

Him playing again should be his 1st sign of CTE. This is where the NFL has to be better. Decisions like this shouldn't be left in the players hands. These are guys who care about football over there health, hence why they do this as a career and they need to be protected from themselves.
 
Especially when you have a TON of money you'd still get if you never play a down again. 

I think the main point of contention is that as a grown man ... It actually is his decision if he wants to cut the quality of his life short.

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[batman10023]

6 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

We have no idea what the experts who have actually evaluated him have said about the risks. There's many players who have had more concussions than Tua has had that are playing. If current medical knowledge says that he can play then on what basis does the NFL say he can't? Where's the line to make the determination? If they're not using a medical basis to make it..how do you define it?

The NFL would never simply be allowed to tell a player he can't play. The NFLPA would certainly step in and prevent the NFL from doing this.

i think it's the finger thing which kind of scares people (i forget what it's called) - it happened twice for him.  not sure it's happened to another player twice.

it's probable that he gets another concussion - question is timing.  

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

There's a difference between telling someone what to do an expressing your opinion on what they should do.

I think Tua is an idiot and I won't have any sympathy when he's all f'd up as he ages. He made his own bed.

Especially given the clips he's surely seen of himself post-concussion on the field, and the knowledge that his contract has something like $167MM guaranteed for injury (which anyone can see plain as day he's had).

Moreover, he has two babies one & two years old.

Sometimes guys make the right decision, and it was no less difficult for them to leave while they still could/would have been productive if not all-pro level either (e.g. Sterling Sharpe, Luke Kuechly, etc.). There's more to life, and those guys made the decision with a fraction of what Tua has coming to him financially.

It's his life to do what he wants with it, but it's a dumb decision.

[batman10023]

1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

I think the main point of contention is that as a grown man ... It actually is his decision if he wants to cut the quality of his life short.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

should 2 grown men be allowed to fight to the death -- as long as it's their decision?

obviously that's the most extreme example.  

[Dunnie]

i think it's the finger thing which kind of scares people (i forget what it's called) - it happened twice for him.  not sure it's happened to another player twice.
it's probable that he gets another concussion - question is timing.  

It is a common side effect of a concussion called posturing.

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[Dunnie]

should 2 grown men be allowed to fight to the death -- as long as it's their decision?
obviously that's the most extreme example.  

If they love fighting more than anything else in existence.. maybe.

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[batman10023]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Especially given the clips he's surely seen of himself post-concussion on the field, and the knowledge that his contract has something like $167MM guaranteed for injury (which anyone can see plain as day he's had).

Moreover, he has two babies one & two years old.

Sometimes guys make the right decision, and it was no less difficult for them to leave while they still could/would have been productive if not all-pro level either (e.g. Sterling Sharpe, Luke Kuechly, etc.). There's more to life, and those guys made the decision with a fraction of what Tua has coming to him financially.

It's his life to do what he wants with it, but it's a dumb decision.

if he's been cleared to play - how would he get those injury guarantees?  

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

if he's been cleared to play - how would he get those injury guarantees?  

In this case all parties were pushing to get cleared. If Tua didn't want to play and risk further injury it wouldn't be hard to get a line of neurologists to cite the near and long term damage with all the attention CTE has gotten of late.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, Prodigal Syndicate said:

I guess it gets into a conversation of when should the league step in? Ever?

It's very probable Tua is already suffering from CTE and it's shaping his choices. His refusal to even wear a guardian cap is bizarre.

I think he's a fun QB to watch and you see how the Dolphins fall apart without him but I wish he would retire. It's just sad all around. You already know he will get another at some point. It won't stop. Every time he goes down you have to hold your breath watching him.

This concussion  wasn't  even from a violent collision, Tua ran into the defenders mid-section head first. He was on the ground with his arms extended. 

[DJF71]

I won't feel bad for him when it happens again. 

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Especially given the clips he's surely seen of himself post-concussion on the field, and the knowledge that his contract has something like $167MM guaranteed for injury (which anyone can see plain as day he's had).

I don’t think this is accurate. My understanding (as was reported in multiple places) is that, because he’s been cleared to play, he wouldn’t actually get his hands on the guaranteed injury money if he chose to retire now. 
 

To get the $167 MM you are referring to, he’d have to NOT be cleared to play and be forced into retirement. 
 

see here:

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/if-nfl-star-tua-tagovailoa-retires-heres-what-happens-to-his-212-million-contract-d12114ae

[slimjasi]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In this case all parties were pushing to get cleared. If Tua didn't want to play and risk further injury it wouldn't be hard to get a line of neurologists to cite the near and long term damage with all the attention CTE has gotten of late.

Again, I don’t think this is accurate. Once he passed the concussion protocol and was cleared to play, I think he would have a hard time deciding to retire and still recouping that money. 

[varjet]

There was a movie made that presented the NFL as the bad guys (which they largely were) for letting concussed players play, and many of them eventually ended up impaired or killed themselves.  

So what is the NFL supposed to do here. 

The solution seems pretty simple to me.  In the next NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement, a team should be allowed to appeal to the NFL to have a player forbidden to play for health reasons.  Every player contract would contain a buyout when it was signed.    The NFL would pay the buyout, and the team would not incur a cap hit.  

The standard would actually be pretty high to have a player struck, but it would be possible.  

[TBJ]

He's one big hit away from a 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

I don’t think this is accurate. My understanding (as was reported in multiple places) is that, because he’s been cleared to play, he wouldn’t actually get his hands on the guaranteed injury money if he chose to retire now. 
 

To get the $167 MM you are referring to, he’d have to NOT be cleared to play and be forced into retirement. 
 

see here:

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/if-nfl-star-tua-tagovailoa-retires-heres-what-happens-to-his-212-million-contract-d12114ae

If he says he's still getting headaches or now & then dizziness, balance issues, or any number of other symptoms easy for him to attest to, he wouldn't be medically cleared.

He was medically cleared because he wanted to be medically cleared and they didn't seek the opinion of someone at all likely to say, "Are you nuts? He needs to never get hit in the head again!" They asked the James Woods / Any Given Sunday version of a neurologist. 

He was also cleared by a neurologist back in 2022 when it (later became) obvious he had no business clearing Tua, then whoops they realized it never should've happened and got rid of him. If he'd seen someone else, it's not hard to imagine someone else saying the opposite (otherwise he wouldn't have been dismissed).

IOW it's not hard to find someone willing to go on record on either side, and it's clear Tua was not seeking to find a neurologist who'd likely err on the side of caution and say he shouldn't play anymore. 

Truth is you'd be hard-pressed to find any neurologist who thinks playing football is a good idea in the first place, let alone when 250-300 pound men are running at you wearing body armor, like a car getting hit absorbs the impact of the car hitting it & is why it typically sustains more damage (particularly when it's a bigger car ramming into a smaller one). All it takes is one more (eventual, even if unintended) hard helmet to helmet (or knee to helmet or helmet to ground) hit to cause more permanent damage than he's already sustained.

But if he's seeking out doctors that will clear him, clear him to play without the extra helmet padding at that, and that's further music to the team's ears, then it's his life. If he truly wanted out because he feared the side effects down the road that are more than well-documented, it's not at all difficult to get someone to attest that he shouldn't play anymore due to the damage done thus far and the heightened risk in the future of not just still more damage but how much more likely he is to get concussed in the first place compared to someone without this history.

The team surely has an insurance policy on his contract as well, but again none of the parties were seeking an answer other than he can play. 

[Darnold's Forehead]

I'm not gonna cry over a grown man risking his health to do what he loves.  It is what it is, more power to him.  It should be his choice alone.