33 Dead in VT school shooting

Smizzy · April 17, 2007

As a group of grown men...I think we can switch the focus back without having to lock this.

Arsis · April 17, 2007

As a group of grown men...I think we can switch the focus back without having to lock this.

I was gonna make a stupid joke about the penis pills finally working and you finally being able to call yourself a "grown" man but I changed my mind.

Kidhuman · April 17, 2007

I actually live 3 miles from the Tech Campus. This area is a flood of reporters and journalists and secret service right now with the Govenor and possibly the President coming here tomorrow.

My kids who attend public schools in Blacksburg, were in school and they put cops outside the schools there and locked them down. They couldnt even go to the bathroom with out 2 adults going with them. My daughter had her lunch brought to her classroom. They have closed all public schools in the Montgomery County area tomorrow.

People around here are distraught to say the least. I work in a call center where the majority of people are Va Tech students. I dont know if any of them were hurt or injured in this tragedy, but my heart, prayers and thoughts go out to the 60+ families involved in this incident.

It started at 7:15 this morning in west AJ(dorm) when a couple broke up and the guy shot his girlfriend and the R.A. They locked the building down and about 9:45 A.M. in Norris Hall shots were heard again where the gunman killed 29 people and then himself while injuring countless other people.

The cops and Va Tech faculty can not be held responsible for this mess. They did the best they could following the first shooting. There was nothing that even indicated that a 2nd round of gunfire would be coming.

gsnts725 · April 17, 2007

wow this is really crazy. this is like colombine all over again. my heart and prayers goes out to the families of the victims that were killed, wounded, and tramatized. people these days, man. i hope this never happens in my high school or when i go to college =/

BP · April 17, 2007

Interesting blog about a VT student here

I don't know if this is the guy or not..but.. :shock:

AVM · April 17, 2007

Interesting blog about a VT student here

I don't know if this is the guy or not..but..

Regardless of who that guy is, "the guy" or not....thats disturbing, at least to me.

Jetheelz · April 17, 2007

Glad your family is ok KH.

Barton · April 17, 2007

You know alot of asian kids are emo..........

AVM · April 17, 2007

You know alot of asian kids are emo..........

Like i said...i dont care if its him or not, thats still pretty disturbing

RSJ · April 17, 2007

Very, very sad.

37k · April 17, 2007

That kid doesn't even look like he could pick up a handgun.

R.I.P. and glad to hear your family is unharmed Kidhuman.

A guy I had a few classes with Junior year of High School is actually a Sophomore at VaTech, but he is fine thankfully.

MikeJetsWord · April 17, 2007

because everyone is told since birth they are special/unique/amazing. it has created the greatest wave of narcissism the world has ever known. when kids aren't taught from an early age to deal with disappointment (no scores for ball games, no class rankings, everyone gets a trophy and a ribbon) they think they are naturally destined to excell at everything. when they get to the age where you leave the little caccoon of being bailed out from life's consequences and have been robbed of any of the skill necessary to deal with disappointment, you snap when something relatively major goes wrong (i.e. flunking a college exam, getting dumped by a girlfriend, etc). we've created a nation of ninnies who don't know how to cope with failure because they are never allowed to "practice" dealing with minor inconveniences like losing a little league game. when sh!t goes south, they can't handle it and they take it out on the world because naturally something must have conspired against them to make them fail since they have never tasted failure before.

POTY if thats possible.. POTW if not. Its so damn true. F*ck the little kids feelings, toughen up you little bitch.

MikeJetsWord · April 17, 2007

Interesting blog about a VT student here

I don't know if this is the guy or not..but..

Disturbing is an understatement.

JetCane · April 17, 2007

POTY if thats possible.. POTW if not. Its so damn true. F*ck the little kids feelings, toughen up you little bitch.

Arent they saying that the killer was a Chinese national who moved here later in life? If so, he was raised in a different culture and none of that bs theory applies.

vinnys025 · April 17, 2007

Arent they saying that the killer was a Chinese national who moved here later in life? If so, he was raised in a different culture and none of that bs theory applies.

I think in Chinese culture its even worse if you fail.

Panzer Division Marduk · April 17, 2007

Interesting blog about a VT student here

I don't know if this is the guy or not..but..

Not him, but apparently he's been getting death threats over it.

The Gun Of Bavaria · April 17, 2007

One last thing before this thread disappears. I find it funny that the same people here who are going crazy about banning guns are the same ones who sat there and argued that dope should be legalized. Wanna hear something funny? I work in a town of 65K which is 2 miles from one of the most crime ridden cities in North America. In 2006 we lost 9 people, ranging in ages from 17-21 from dope overdoses. 0 from gunfire. Our last 5 traffic fatalties? Drunk and doped up drivers.

Your gun control argument carries zero weight. Nada. None. Zip. I've been a cop 6 years. In that time we've had 2 murders by gunfire. 2. In that same time We've had 4 by starvation, strangulation and poisioning.

Use the blood of the VTU victims to rally around another political cause.

Bugg · April 17, 2007

The next time you hear of a legally-registered gun being used in a crime by an authorized, licensed and trained owner, let us all know.I've never heard of one. DC and NYC have arguably the tightest gun laws in the country, yet in both (especially in some rougher NY neighborhoods like East New York or Brownsville) gun violence is epidemic. And exactly zero of the guns used in any of those crimes and places are licensed.

A Chinese citizen isn't supposed to be able to buy or carry such weapons.

Another imbecilic job by the Bush Administration that they cannot ID this guy because he shot himself in the face. Apparently in the state of Virginia(home to both the FBI and CIA) fingerprint data bases are some newfangled technology incapable of being deployed. When all the nutball conspiracy theories begin to abound, you can blame it on this attempt to keep it quiet. Just tell the goddamn truth.

Kidhuman · April 17, 2007

They tried to fingerprint him but none on file. I always thought that you had to be fingerprinted when buying a gun

Here in SW Va, you can buy guns from anybody. Alot of people hunt and sell guns through local trading news papers. Its not any adminastrations fault, thats local law enforcement that isnt covering that.

MrsTaborJet · April 17, 2007

Just a little note on security at my school. I'm an undergrad, go to school in evenings at a small Catholic women's college. There are <1,000 women living on campus and I think the security SUCKS. I only have to drive in and out twice a week, no big deal. The extent of the security measures are: I'm supposed to have a sticker on my car at all times. Yeah right. Between 2002-2004, I was sporting a 1999 school year sticker. No one ever questioned it. Now I don't bother at all getting a sticker. Even worse, the school is to automatically issue me a stick every year... and they don't. I've been attending classes on an off for what seems my entire adult life...not once since 1998 have they ever ISSUED ME A STUDENT I.D. It is not required at the gate, it is not required to be on us at all times, nothing.

They sure have no problem billing me every semester for 10 different miscellaneous fees, but I have yet to see any sign of true security at this place. Truthfully, if something did happen I think I would need to protect the 100 year old guard. Not the other way around. I can call 9-1-1 myself... not sure what they are doing there other then driving around campus looking the part. If I was living on campus, I'd have some serious questions for the administration.

joewilly · April 17, 2007

good morning dickotite, sorry I left last night, I wasn't avoiding you're question. yes my boat burns gas & is probably helping to increase the size of the hole in the ozone layer.

my bad.

I'm gonna respect the boards wishes & not get into the right to bear arms here. It is you're right & it's way too late in the game to change any gun laws in the us.

You're right,It was the individuals choice to decide to kill 32 students, not the handgun's choice.

the gun sure helped once he made the decision though.

I watched the news for 3 hrs last night on as many channels. what bugged me the most is the prominent news anchors of cnn,abc & fox relentlessly grilling the students on being mad at the university for not notifying them in time. I was sickened by them trying to prompt accusations before all facts are tabled.

Garb · April 17, 2007

Close to my home:

Was watching the late news last nite and the news crew was at a Boston area home interviewing a frantic woman who was trying to get a hold of her son - a VA Tech sophomore who was scheduled to be in French class at the very same building the massacre occured at. A parents worst nightmare - I can't even begin to imagine......anyway, front page of the Boston Globe today: one of deceased was indeed this woman's son. I sit here thinking about the pain this poor woman is feeling right now. It's over-whelmingly sad.

joewilly · April 17, 2007

Close to my home:

Was watching the late news last nite and the news crew was at a Boston area home interviewing a frantic woman who was trying to get a hold of her son - a VA Tech sophomore who was scheduled to be in French class at the very same building the massacre occured at. A parents worst nightmare - I can't even begin to imagine......anyway, front page of the Boston Globe today: one of deceased was indeed this woman's son. I sit here thinking about the pain this poor woman is feeling right now. It's over-whelmingly sad.

yeah, I watched a couple interviews on tv this morning. a former student talked about his sister who was killed in a classroom. what a horrible thing for an older brother to have to endure at such a young age.

I guess it makes no difference whether this happened at a prominent university or a correctional facility cause we're all human, but the innocence of a university campus makes it very tragic.

SouthernJet · April 17, 2007

Oh, and, if all the parents here or non-parents arguing or whatever here believe its the internet, think again. You wanna pay attention to something? Pay attention to the crowd of kids your kids hang out with. Meet them first or something, make your own evaulation on them and try to keep track on the things they do, say, heck, even the smells of them when they come in at night. Check out your kid or kids' friends, not the damn internet, unless your kid doesn't have many or no friends.

I am VERY impressed 124,,VERY impressed.

You just hit on the most important facet of raising a child, other than unconditionnal love.

YOUR KIDS FRIENDS!!!!!!

This is so important,, puta magnifying glass on who your kids hang out with and if your gut says no, END IT ASAP!!!!

And if your kid KEEPS getting in trouble despite all the right parenting things, then you must come to conclusion that YOUR KID may be one the ones that other parents need to avoid. When that happens I anm sure there are intervention tactics to employ..Luckily I never got there..

But I was VERY gestapo on whomy kids hung out with...

wildthing2022000 · April 17, 2007

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

Va. Tech president: Gunman was a student

BLACKSBURG, Va. - Virginia Tech's president said Tuesday that a student was the gunman in at least the second of the two campus attacks that claimed 33 lives to become the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

Though he did not explicitly say the student was also the gunman in the first shooting, he said he did not believe there was another shooter at large.

Two hours after two people were killed at a dormitory Monday, 30 more people were killed at a campus building by a gunman who finally killed himself with a shot to his head.

"We do know that he was an Asian male — this is the second incident — an Asian man who was a resident in one of our dormitories," university president Charles Steger said in an interview with CNN, confirming for the first time that the killer was a student.

Steger also defended the university's delay in warning students after the first shooting. Some students said their first notice came in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m., after the second shooting had begun.

Steger said the university was trying to notify students who were already on-campus, not those who were commuting in.

"We warned the students that we thought were immediately impacted," he told CNN. "We felt that confining them to the classroom was how to keep them safest."

He said investigators did not know there was a shooter loose on campus in the interval between the two shootings because the first could have been a murder-suicide.

Two students told NBC's "Today" show they were unaware of the dorm shooting when they reported to a German class where the gunman later opened fire.

Derek O'Dell, his arm in a cast after being shot, described a shooter who fired away in "eerily silence" with "no specific target — just taking out anybody he could."

After the gunman left the room, students could hear him shooting other people down the hall. O'Dell said he and other students barricaded the door so the shooter couldn't get back in — though he later tried.

"After he couldn't get the door open he tried shooting it open... but the gunshots were blunted by the door," O'Dell said.

The slayings left people of this once-peaceful mountain town and the university at its heart praying for the victims, struggling to find order in a tragedy of such unspeakable horror it defies reason.

Laura Bush were planning to attend a 2 p.m. convocation Tuesday, and people sought comfort Monday night at a church servide.

One mourner pleaded "for parents near and far who wonder at a time like this, 'Is my child safe?'"

That question promises to haunt Blacksburg long after Monday's attacks. Investigators offered no motive, and the gunman's name was not released.

The shooting began about 7:15 a.m. on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston, a high-rise coed dormitory where two people died.

Police were still investigating around 9:15 a.m., when a gunman wielding two handguns and carrying multiple clips of ammunition stormed Norris Hall, a classroom building a half-mile away on the other side of the 2,600-acre campus.

At least 15 people were hurt in the second attack, some seriously. Many found themselves trapped after someone, apparently the shooter, chained and locked Norris Hall doors from the inside.

Students jumped from windows, and students and faculty carried away some of the wounded without waiting for ambulances to arrive.

SWAT team members with helmets, flak jackets and assault rifles swarmed over the campus. A student used his cell-phone camera to record the sound of bullets echoing through a stone building.

Inside Norris, the attack began with a thunderous sound from Room 206 — "what sounded like an enormous hammer," said Alec Calhoun, a 20-year-old junior who was in a solid mechanics lecture in a classroom next door.

Screams followed an instant later, and the banging continued. When students realized the sounds were gunshots, Calhoun said, he started flipping over desks to make hiding places. Others dashed to the windows of the second-floor classroom, kicking out the screens and jumping from the ledge of Room 204, he said.

"I must've been the eighth or ninth person who jumped, and I think I was the last," said Calhoun, of Waynesboro, Va. He landed in a bush and ran.

Calhoun said that the two students behind him were shot, but that he believed they survived. Just before he climbed out the window, Calhoun said, he turned to look at his professor, who had stayed behind, apparently to prevent the gunman from opening the door.

The instructor was killed, Calhoun said.

Erin Sheehan, who was in the German class next door to Calhoun's class, told the student newspaper, the Collegiate Times, that she was one of only four of about two dozen people in the class to walk out of the room. The rest were dead or wounded, she said.

She said the gunman "was just a normal-looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout-type outfit. He wore a tan button-up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something."

The gunman first shot the professor in the head and then fired on the class, another student, Trey Perkins, told The Washington Post. The gunman was about 19 years old and had a "very serious but very calm look on his face," he said.

"Everyone hit the floor at that moment," said Perkins, 20, of Yorktown, Va., a sophomore studying mechanical engineering. "And the shots seemed like it lasted forever."

At an evening news conference, Police Chief Wendell Flinchum refused to dismiss the possibility that a co-conspirator or second shooter was involved. He said police had interviewed a male who was a "person of interest" in the dorm shooting and who knew one of the victims, but he declined to give details.

"I'm not saying there's a gunman on the loose," Flinchum said. Ballistics tests will help explain what happened, he said.

Some students bitterly complained that the first e-mail warning arrived more than two hours after the first shots.

"I think the university has blood on their hands because of their lack of action after the first incident," said Billy Bason, 18, who lives on the seventh floor of the dorm.

Steger emphasized that the university closed off the dorm after the first attack and decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means to spread the word, but said that with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out.

He said that before the e-mail was sent, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms and sent people to knock on doors. Students were warned to stay inside and away from the windows.

"We can only make decisions based on the information you had at the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it," Steger said.

The 9:26 e-mail had few details: "A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating."

Until Monday, the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard plowed his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

The massacre Monday took place almost eight years to the day after the Columbine High bloodbath near Littleton, Colo. On April 20, 1999, two teenagers killed 12 fellow students and a teacher before taking their own lives.

Previously, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.

Founded in 1872, Virginia Tech is nestled in southwestern Virginia, about 160 miles west of Richmond. With more than 25,000 full-time students, it has the state's largest full-time student population. The school is best known for its engineering school and its powerhouse Hokies football team.

Police said there had been bomb threats on campus over the past two weeks but that they had not determined whether they were linked to the shootings.

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of gunfire.

Last August, the opening day of classes was canceled when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy was killed just off campus. The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

Among the dead were professors Liviu Librescu and Kevin Granata, said Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.

Librescu, an Israeli, was born in Romania and was known internationally for his research in aeronautical engineering, Puri wrote in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

Granata and his students researched muscle and reflex response and robotics. Puri called him one of the top five biomechanics researchers in the country working on movement dynamics in cerebral palsy.

Also killed was Ryan Clark, a student from Martinez, Ga., who had several majors and carried a 4.0 grade-point average, said Vernon Collins, coroner in Columbia County, Ga.

His friend Gregory Walton, a 25-year-old who graduated last year, said he feared the nightmare had just begun.

"I knew when the number was so large that I would know at least one person on that list," said Walton, a banquet manager. "I don't want to look at that list. I don't want to.

"It's just, it's going to be horrible, and it's going to get worse before it gets better."

mangenious420 · April 17, 2007

joewilly · April 17, 2007

thanks for posting the article wild thing. info on what went down exactly seems painstakingly slow to me. I think the quicker they can table the events of the investigation, the quicker all those involved can start the healing process.

so many unanswered questions about how many shooters etc must be difficult for the students & loved ones

wildthing2022000 · April 17, 2007

thanks for posting the article wild thing. info on what went down exactly seems painstakingly slow to me. I think the quicker they can table the events of the investigation, the quicker all those involved can start the healing process.

so many unanswered questions about how many shooters etc must be difficult for the students & loved ones

The name of the shooter has been released.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070417/ap_on_re_us/virginia_tech_shooting

BLACKSBURG, Va. - A Virginia Tech senior from South Korea killed at least 30 people locked inside a classroom building in the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history, the university and police said Tuesday.

Ballistics tests also found that one of the guns used in that attack was also used in a shooting two hours earlier at a Virginia Tech dorm that left two people dead, Virginia State Police said.

Police identified the classroom shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior from South Korea who was in the English department and lived in another dorm on campus. They said Cho committed suicide after the attacks, and there was no indication Tuesday of a possible motive.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

Two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were found on the guns used in both shootings. The serial numbers on the two weapons had been filed off, the officials said.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said it was reasonable to assume that Cho was the shooter in both attacks but that link was yet definitive.

"There's no evidence of any accomplice at either event, but we're exploring the possibility," he said.

Cho was a permanent legal resident of the United States, according to a Homeland Security Department official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced.

A memorial service was planned for the victims Tuesday afternoon at the university, and President Bush planned to attend, the White House said. Gov. Tim Kaine was flying back to Virginia from Tokyo for the 2 p.m. convocation.

The first deadly attack, at a dormitory around 7:15 a.m., left two people dead. But some students said they didn't get their first warning about a danger on campus until two hours later, in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m. By then the second attack had begun.

Two students told NBC's "Today" show they were unaware of the dorm shooting when they walked into Norris Hall for a German class where the gunman later opened fire.

The victims in Norris Hall were found in four different classrooms and a stairwell, Flaherty said. Cho was found dead in one of those classrooms, he said.

Derek O'Dell, his arm in a cast after being shot, described a shooter who fired away in "eerily silence" with "no specific target — just taking out anybody he could."

After the gunman left the room, students could hear him shooting other people down the hall. O'Dell said he and other students barricaded the door so the shooter couldn't get back in — though he later tried.

"After he couldn't get the door open he tried shooting it open ... but the gunshots were blunted by the door," O'Dell said.

A federal law enforcement official said Tuesday he had been told by other federal law enforcement officials that the two guns recovered in the shooting had had their serial numbers scraped off. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced.

The slayings left people of this once-peaceful mountain town and the university at its heart praying for the victims and struggling to find order in a tragedy of such unspeakable horror it defies reason.

"For Ryan and Emily and for those whose names we do not know," one woman pleaded in a church service Monday night.

Another mourner added: "For parents near and far who wonder at a time like this, 'Is my child safe?'"

That question promises to haunt Blacksburg long after Monday's attacks. Investigators offered no motive, and the gunman's name was not immediately released.

The shooting began about 7:15 a.m. on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston, a high-rise coed dormitory where two people died.

Police were still investigating around 9:15 a.m., when a gunman wielding two handguns and carrying multiple clips of ammunition stormed Norris Hall, a classroom building a half-mile away on the other side of the 2,600-acre campus.

At least 20 people were taken to hospitals after the second attack, some seriously injured. Many found themselves trapped after someone, apparently the shooter, chained and locked Norris Hall doors from the inside.

Students jumped from windows, and students and faculty carried away some of the wounded without waiting for ambulances to arrive.

SWAT team members with helmets, flak jackets and assault rifles swarmed over the campus. A student used his cell-phone camera to record the sound of bullets echoing through a stone building.

Inside Norris, the attack began with a thunderous sound from Room 206 — "what sounded like an enormous hammer," said Alec Calhoun, a 20-year-old junior who was in a solid mechanics lecture in a classroom next door.

Screams followed an instant later, and the banging continued. When students realized the sounds were gunshots, Calhoun said, he started flipping over desks to make hiding places. Others dashed to the windows of the second-floor classroom, kicking out the screens and jumping from the ledge of Room 204, he said.

"I must've been the eighth or ninth person who jumped, and I think I was the last," said Calhoun, of Waynesboro, Va. He landed in a bush and ran.

Calhoun said that the two students behind him were shot, but that he believed they survived. Just before he climbed out the window, Calhoun said, he turned to look at his professor, who had stayed behind, apparently to prevent the gunman from opening the door.

The instructor was killed, Calhoun said.

Erin Sheehan, who was in the German class near Calhoun's room, told the student newspaper, the Collegiate Times, that she was one of only four of about two dozen people in the class to walk out of the room. The rest were dead or wounded, she said.

She said the gunman "was just a normal-looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout-type outfit. He wore a tan button-up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something."

The gunman first shot the professor in the head and then fired on the class, another student, Trey Perkins, told The Washington Post. The gunman was about 19 years old and had a "very serious but very calm look on his face," he said.

"Everyone hit the floor at that moment," said Perkins, 20, of Yorktown, Va., a sophomore studying mechanical engineering. "And the shots seemed like it lasted forever."

At an evening news conference, Police Chief Wendell Flinchum refused to dismiss the possibility that a co-conspirator or second shooter was involved. He said police had interviewed a male who was a "person of interest" in the dorm shooting and who knew one of the victims, but he declined to give details.

"I'm not saying there's a gunman on the loose," Flinchum said. Ballistics tests will help explain what happened, he said.

Some students bitterly complained that the first e-mail warning arrived more than two hours after the first shots.

"I think the university has blood on their hands because of their lack of action after the first incident," said Billy Bason, 18, who lives on the seventh floor of the dorm.

University President Charles Steger emphasized that the university closed off the dorm after the first attack and decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means to spread the word, but said that with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out.

He said that before the e-mail was sent, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms and sent people to knock on doors. Students were warned to stay inside and away from the windows.

"We can only make decisions based on the information you had at the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it," Steger said.

The 9:26 e-mail had few details: "A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning. Police are on the scene and are investigating."

Until Monday, the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard plowed his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

Nine students remained hospitalized Tuesday at Montgomery Regional Hospital, all of them stable, CEO Scott Hill said. Two others had been transferred to other hospitals with a Level I trauma center.

Their families "are by the bedside, which is a good thing," Hill said.

Lewis-Gale Medical Center in Salem had three remaining patients, all in stable condition, with one expected to be discharged later Tuesday, Hill said.