Now this is a HC

[Tinstar]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000482016/article/bruce-arians-i-wasnt-going-to-let-logan-thomas-fail

 

 

And how you develop a young QB.

[Savage69]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000482016/article/bruce-arians-i-wasnt-going-to-let-logan-thomas-fail

 

 

And how you develop a young QB.

I think Arians is one of the best HC's in the league but you can do that with a 4th rd pick it's harder to sit a 1st rd pick unless you have a Farve or real good vet as your starter..

[JoeC36]

Bruce Arians: I wasn't going to let Logan Thomas fail

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• By Chris Wesseling
• Around the NFL Writer
• Published: March 27, 2015 at 07:37 p.m.
• Updated: March 27, 2015 at 09:28 p.m.

 

 

 

After losing Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton to knee injuries in separate games versus the Rams,Cardinals coach Bruce Arians was desperate for a quarterback entering the 2014 playoffs.

Ryan Lindley set a record for ignominy, passing 229 times without a touchdown to start his NFL career. His 50.3 passer rating and 1-5 record (.167) were the lowest marks by any postseason quarterback in the last 30 years.

Held hostage by Lindley, Arizona managed an NFL postseason record-low 78 yards of offense in the Wild Card Round loss to the Panthers.

So why didn't Arians turn to rifle-armed rookie Logan Thomas, asoriginally planned entering the regular-season finale versus the49ers?

Arians reiterated this week at the NFL Annual Meeting that Thomas simply wasn't ready to start games at the NFL level.

"We drafted him for two years from now, not November," Arians said, via the team's official website. "It just so happened his number got called (earlier.) I was not going to let him fail (in San Francisco) because once you fail those scars never go away.

"It's very hard to get the guys back in the locker room if you cost them the playoffs. I just wasn't going to put him in that situation. Right or wrong, it just was my decision."

Who can find fault with that logic from one of the NFL's preeminent quarterback gurus?

Thomas is a developmental project. Success stories in that category are few and far between, but that won't stop Arians from attempting to refine the former Virginia Tech star's immense physical gifts as an alternative to Palmer down the line.

The latest Around The NFL Podcast discusses C.J. Spiller's potential with the Saints and features the return of Win Wess' Toaster! Find more Around The NFL content on NFL NOW.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000482016/article/bruce-arians-i-wasnt-going-to-let-logan-thomas-fail

[FTL Jet Fan]

Happy Bowles was there for that, hopefully he employs the same philosophy.

[Tinstar]

I think Arians is one of the best HC's in the league but you can do that with a 4th rd pick it's harder to sit a 1st rd pick unless you have a Farve or real good vet as your starter..

why not if you know they're not ready ? Only a fool would think Geno Smith was ready to run a WCO..

[RutgersJetFan]

And then you have Rex, who trotted Sanchez back out there after the Thanksgiving game.

[Shadetree]

And then you have Rex, who trotted Sanchez back out there after the Thanksgiving game.

...and the snoopy bowl

[JetsFanatic]

The dumbest thing Rex did was play Sanchez in the 4th quarter in the snoopy bowl.  I still would love to know what was going through his mind to make him do such a thing.

[JohnnyLV]

And then you have Rex, who trotted Sanchez back out there after the Thanksgiving game.

 

True. One is a QB whisperer, and one is a QB axe-murderer.

[JohnnyLV]

The dumbest thing Rex did was play Sanchez in the 4th quarter in the snoopy bowl.  I still would love to know what was going through his mind to make him do such a thing.

 

Sanchez in his fourth year had done absolutely nothing to separate himself from a rookie, and Rex trotted his guy out there for one more shot at him "winning" the competition

[Gastineau Lives]

Develop into what?

You think 4th rounders grow on trees? Oh yeah, they kind of do.

[GREENBEAN]

A good coaching philosophy is of the highest value. Bowles has a lot of potential with his list of mentors

[Charlie Brown]

True. One is a QB whisperer, and one is a QB axe-murderer.

This 100%

And it is amazing how many folks still think that trotting Sanchez out before he was ready was a good move.

[jetsrebirth]

Sanchez in his fourth year had done absolutely nothing to separate himself from a rookie, and Rex trotted his guy out there for one more shot at him "winning" the competition

 

Sanchez was mentally destroyed by Rex well before 2013. 2011 and 2012 were a case study on how to destroy a QB. Whatever happened in 2013 was irrelevant, Sanchez confidence was so destroyed by that point he could not complete a simple screen pass. Pretty sad to see the QB from 2010, who should have arguably been sitting on the bench as a rookie that season rather than playing, but showed a lot of promise, destroyed because of complete and utter incompetence.

[LouisvilleSlugger25]

He didn't play Logan Thomas because he was a trainwreck and would have been just as bad as Lindley. Thomas was AWFUL in college. AWFUL.  Geno was a stud in college. So there is a reason why a kid like Geno was given the chance to start early in the NFL and kid like Thomas wasn't given that chance. And when Thomas did get game action last year he went 1 for 9. Thomas would make Geno look like Tom Brady if he was allowed to start. It's not because Arians is a genius, its because it was a no-brainer move. 

 

For everyone that kills coaches like Rex Ryan and then praise guys like Arians and Chip Kelly, lets remembers that Chip and Arians are still 2 Championship game appearances behind Rex and combined have zero playoff wins. Maybe they will both win Super Bowls but it's also possible that both never do much more than Rex did.

[Gastineau Lives]

He didn't play Logan Thomas because he was a trainwreck and would have been just as bad as Lindley. Thomas was AWFUL in college. AWFUL.  Geno was a stud in college. So there is a reason why a kid like Geno was given the chance to start early in the NFL and kid like Thomas wasn't given that chance. And when Thomas did get game action last year he went 1 for 9. Thomas would make Geno look like Tom Brady if he was allowed to start. It's not because Arians is a genius, its because it was a no-brainer move. 

 

For everyone that kills coaches like Rex Ryan and then praise guys like Arians and Chip Kelly, lets remembers that Chip and Arians are still 2 Championship game appearances behind Rex and combined have zero playoff wins. Maybe they will both win Super Bowls but it's also possible that both never do much more than Rex did.

 

This is one of those posts I wish I had written.

[kmnj]

head coach who has not won anything yet-he has not even accomplished what rex accomplished -I liked our new hire and think the gm so far is off to a great start-however lets see them make the playoffs at some point and then advance some

[kmnj]

He didn't play Logan Thomas because he was a trainwreck and would have been just as bad as Lindley. Thomas was AWFUL in college. AWFUL.  Geno was a stud in college. So there is a reason why a kid like Geno was given the chance to start early in the NFL and kid like Thomas wasn't given that chance. And when Thomas did get game action last year he went 1 for 9. Thomas would make Geno look like Tom Brady if he was allowed to start. It's not because Arians is a genius, its because it was a no-brainer move. 

 

For everyone that kills coaches like Rex Ryan and then praise guys like Arians and Chip Kelly, lets remembers that Chip and Arians are still 2 Championship game appearances behind Rex and combined have zero playoff wins. Maybe they will both win Super Bowls but it's also possible that both never do much more than Rex did.

 

yep just wrote that-the GREAT CHIP Kelly has won NOTHING in fact his team crumbled when it needed to perform

Arians-won nothing yet and he wont win anything anytime soon either-I would argue the cards will actually take a step back this year-skill position players are not that great and Fitz looked like he aged 10 years last year

[Ex-Rex]

The dumbest thing Rex did was play Sanchez in the 4th quarter in the snoopy bowl.  I still would love to know what was going through his mind to make him do such a thing.

"I wonder what they'll have at the buffet table after the game?", "Hot dogs smothered in chili with horseradish would be a nice start." "I wonder what Rob is doing today." "Is Michelle cheating on me with the pool guy? He shows up at the oddest hours and usually when I am not home....wait, I'm not home NOW, OH FREAKIN NO, better get this over with and what's up with Sanchez holding his shoulder like that." That is pretty much what was going through Rex's MIND.

[Villain The Foe]

I think Arians is one of the best HC's in the league but you can do that with a 4th rd pick it's harder to sit a 1st rd pick unless you have a Farve or real good vet as your starter..

If the coach has complete control of who plays then it isnt that hard. When you put together a complete team, and not solely looking for a "franchise QB" to turn everything around then its easier to do this as well. 

[Sperm Edwards]

If the coach has complete control of who plays then it isnt that hard. When you put together a complete team, and not solely looking for a "franchise QB" to turn everything around then its easier to do this as well.

Yeah. Also depends on the young player and who else you've got. I do remember being laughed at when suggesting we should have brought in (a very available) Jeff Garcia in 2009. Jets fans (here) were endlessly parroting Peyton Manning's claim that a young QB just needs to take his lumps and basically there's no time like the present to get it out of the way and how he's not going to learn anything by holding a clipboard.

 

Funny enough, when Manning went in there and took all those lumps starting as a rookie - the types of failure lumps that Arians says haunt a QB his whole career, Manning's QB coach was...Bruce Arians.

 

When Pittsburgh threw Roethlisberger out there as a rookie (also due to injury to the incumbent, and with Pittsburgh nowhere near the 2014 Cardinals' December situation) Arians was with that team as well (and in year 2 of Ben's career became their OC). He saw another QB not get ruined by starting so early.

 

Then in 2012 he didn't seem to have much concern with trotting out Andrew Luck in week 1 of his rookie season.

 

Suffice to say, seeing such success firsthand he can't possibly think this is always the way to do it like some type of rookie QB rule. Some players you keep off the field and others you don't have to. Still others it makes little to no difference. If he thought Thomas could have won games he'd have put him in there. It wasn't week 1 of Thomas's rookie season, it was freaking December. And my God, look at who they went with instead. 

 

More likely than the whole idea of preserving him at all costs, if he thought Thomas would have been an asset on the field Arians would have gone with him. They were 11-3 facing off against the 10-4 Seahawks (in Arizona), in control of their own destiny in terms of home-field advantage in the playoffs. A win would have put them at 12-3 and preserving the #1 seed. Likewise would have bumped Seattle down to 10-5, and the Seahawks wouldn't have had that whole 12th man thing working for them against anyone (unless they and Detroit both advanced to the NFCCG). Thomas was too much of a project to put out there as a starter even for just a couple of games.

It's a nice or wise-sounding thing to say, but keeping Thomas on the bench in December - effectively tanking the season while 11-3, by going with Lindley - really says Arians simply thought Thomas was too terrible to put out there to even think he might catch lightning in a bottle for a couple of games (or even 1 game). Thomas had been holding a clipboard all summer long and for 15 regular season games already, and Arizona didn't exactly have a train wreck WR situation either. Arians actually did put Thomas out there for half a game when Stanton first got injured, and he was a disaster.

[jetscrazey]

Very refreshing, you never would have heard this kind of honesty from Rex Ryan, that's for sure.  Rex would have started him and ran him into the ground probably.  And then after the game he'll say "We felt good about the Thomas kid."

[shawn306]

Yeah. Also depends on the young player and who else you've got. I do remember being laughed at when suggesting we should have brought in (a very available) Jeff Garcia in 2009. Jets fans (here) were endlessly parroting Peyton Manning's claim that a young QB just needs to take his lumps and basically there's no time like the present to get it out of the way and how he's not going to learn anything by holding a clipboard.

 

Funny enough, when Manning went in there and took all those lumps starting as a rookie - the types of failure lumps that Arians says haunt a QB his whole career, Manning's QB coach was...Bruce Arians.

 

When Pittsburgh threw Roethlisberger out there as a rookie (also due to injury to the incumbent, and with Pittsburgh nowhere near the 2014 Cardinals' December situation) Arians was with that team as well (and in year 2 of Ben's career became their OC). He saw another QB not get ruined by starting so early.

 

Then in 2012 he didn't seem to have much concern with trotting out Andrew Luck in week 1 of his rookie season.

 

Suffice to say, seeing such success firsthand he can't possibly think this is always the way to do it like some type of rookie QB rule. Some players you keep off the field and others you don't have to. Still others it makes little to no difference. If he thought Thomas could have won games he'd have put him in there. It wasn't week 1 of Thomas's rookie season, it was freaking December. And my God, look at who they went with instead. 

 

More likely than the whole idea of preserving him at all costs, if he thought Thomas would have been an asset on the field Arians would have gone with him. They were 11-3 facing off against the 10-4 Seahawks (in Arizona), in control of their own destiny in terms of home-field advantage in the playoffs. A win would have put them at 12-3 and preserving the #1 seed. Likewise would have bumped Seattle down to 10-5, and the Seahawks wouldn't have had that whole 12th man thing working for them against anyone (unless they and Detroit both advanced to the NFCCG). Thomas was too much of a project to put out there as a starter even for just a couple of games.

It's a nice or wise-sounding thing to say, but keeping Thomas on the bench in December - effectively tanking the season while 11-3, by going with Lindley - really says Arians simply thought Thomas was too terrible to put out there to even think he might catch lightning in a bottle for a couple of games (or even 1 game). Thomas had been holding a clipboard all summer long and for 15 regular season games already, and Arizona didn't exactly have a train wreck WR situation either. Arians actually did put Thomas out there for half a game when Stanton first got injured, and he was a disaster.

 

As usual Spermy hits the nail on the head.

 

Every QB is different. Some are ready to go right off the bat (Luck), some can go with help (Roethlisberger, Wilson), some end up not ever being ready to go.

 

People will kill me for this but I think Rex handled Sanchez fine the first two years when he basically asked him to make a few plays and don't lose the game (which on serveral occasions Sanchez did). Sanchez should have been able to take over the reigns in 2011 but for whatever reason he just could not do it.

 

Unfortunately I have seen very little in Geno that makes me think he can turn it around. He has a good game here and there but overall I just don't see alot that makes me think that he is THE guy. 

 

I look at the two QB's people are talking about, Mariota and Winston and while I think Mariota will be the better pro I think it is going to take time for him to learn how to be a pocket passer. Winston is the better guy right now but I would not take him that early because I don't think he mature enough to handle being THE man. I can see it in Mariota just not in 2015.

[JetBlue]

Sanchez in his fourth year had done absolutely nothing to separate himself from a rookie, and Rex trotted his guy out there for one more shot at him "winning" the competition

Gotta be the single stupidest thing I have ever seen a HC do until Carroll in the SuperBowl. 

[CTM]

The dumbest thing Rex did was play Sanchez in the 4th quarter in the snoopy bowl. I still would love to know what was going through his mind to make him do such a thing.

my guess was it was to have Sanchez perform well and justify starting him over idziks boy geno

[Villain The Foe]

Yeah. Also depends on the young player and who else you've got. I do remember being laughed at when suggesting we should have brought in (a very available) Jeff Garcia in 2009. Jets fans (here) were endlessly parroting Peyton Manning's claim that a young QB just needs to take his lumps and basically there's no time like the present to get it out of the way and how he's not going to learn anything by holding a clipboard.

 

Funny enough, when Manning went in there and took all those lumps starting as a rookie - the types of failure lumps that Arians says haunt a QB his whole career, Manning's QB coach was...Bruce Arians.

 

When Pittsburgh threw Roethlisberger out there as a rookie (also due to injury to the incumbent, and with Pittsburgh nowhere near the 2014 Cardinals' December situation) Arians was with that team as well (and in year 2 of Ben's career became their OC). He saw another QB not get ruined by starting so early.

 

Then in 2012 he didn't seem to have much concern with trotting out Andrew Luck in week 1 of his rookie season.

 

Suffice to say, seeing such success firsthand he can't possibly think this is always the way to do it like some type of rookie QB rule. Some players you keep off the field and others you don't have to. Still others it makes little to no difference. If he thought Thomas could have won games he'd have put him in there. It wasn't week 1 of Thomas's rookie season, it was freaking December. And my God, look at who they went with instead. 

 

More likely than the whole idea of preserving him at all costs, if he thought Thomas would have been an asset on the field Arians would have gone with him. They were 11-3 facing off against the 10-4 Seahawks (in Arizona), in control of their own destiny in terms of home-field advantage in the playoffs. A win would have put them at 12-3 and preserving the #1 seed. Likewise would have bumped Seattle down to 10-5, and the Seahawks wouldn't have had that whole 12th man thing working for them against anyone (unless they and Detroit both advanced to the NFCCG). Thomas was too much of a project to put out there as a starter even for just a couple of games.

It's a nice or wise-sounding thing to say, but keeping Thomas on the bench in December - effectively tanking the season while 11-3, by going with Lindley - really says Arians simply thought Thomas was too terrible to put out there to even think he might catch lightning in a bottle for a couple of games (or even 1 game). Thomas had been holding a clipboard all summer long and for 15 regular season games already, and Arizona didn't exactly have a train wreck WR situation either. Arians actually did put Thomas out there for half a game when Stanton first got injured, and he was a disaster.

 

I never agreed with the "Coaches can't keep a QB on the bench unless you have Brady, Brees or Manning as your QB". Some guys are ready for the task (Luck) but most aren't and need to be developed. The proof is in the pudding. How many QB's are thrown out of the league? A league that is absolutely geared to the position in every way in respects to passing & protection, but with that, the development aspect goes out the window? You can no longer touch a QB, to the point where 4,000 yards is the norm and no longer pro bowl worthy (Schaub, Tannehill) and QB's are not starting to play with efficiency at 38+ years old. However, the high school/college game isn't the same. You have guys that make it to the NFL who have never taken a snap under center that are being drafted in the 1st and 2nd round, being thrown out into the fire and failing out of the league because the league "no longer has time to develop these players". How does the league expect these guys to come into the league and be immediate success stories when they've been running option and spread plays since high school and no longer have to read a defense, but simply play a numbers game on one side of the field? The "dumbing down" of the position is getting so bad that you can't even properly evaluate safeties coming out of college because of the way these college programs are being ran on the offensive side of the ball.  

 

It reminds me of the music industry actually. A&R's sole responsibility is to find and develop musical talent, yet today there are less A&R's developing talent. Artist have to be "plug and play" ready. So music companies notice 1 or 2 nice songs from this new artist, throws that music out there, it becomes a hit but there's no in-depth substance or longevity with many of these artists, and now look at the music industry. Some of the worst music ever made is on the radio right now as "top 40" hits. And like football, its the old heads that are pretty much still running the industry like the way Brady, Manning and Brees do in the NFL. There's much to be said here imo for the lack of player development at the QB position, and its directly correlated with putting the position on a pedestal. They're no longer football players, they're "wildcards". The Cordell Stewart's couldn't survive in this league because it takes time and understanding of what a guy like him can bring to the table in order to get the most out of a guy. You need to be Andrew Luck, and that unfortunately holds true because every QB drafted is compared to Luck ever since Luck was drafted. If you're not "plug and play" ready, odds are you're not going to survive in this league, even if the potential is there.

 

Some coaches aren't as forward thinking as Arians when it comes to decision making at the QB position. Logan Thomas was a high school Tight End just 5 years ago. You see alot of things in practices that will let you know whether a guy is ready or not. That doesn't necessarily mean that Thomas is bad, it could mean that he needs those two years to be molded by a professional coach that didnt forget the importance of player development, even with his immediate success with guys like Roethlisberger/Luck...because lets be serious, the college game isn't preparing QB's for the pros. My problem with past Jets teams is that practice wasn't even part of the decision. Everyone knew that it was Geno's job when he was drafted, everyone knew it was Sanchez job when he was drafted. 

 

Now I'll give some understanding to the Sanchez decision. It was a new coach coming in and he was making his stamp on the team, and really we just lost Favre and we had no QB, but when we got Geno it wasn't we picked him with our two top 1st round picks. He dropped to the 2nd round and we still had a Mark Sanchez on the squad that whether people want to give credit or not, the Jets were more successful as a team with him under center since their Super Bowl run 1,000 years ago. On top of the fact that Rex and the rest of the coaching staff was still there. 

 

To conclude, you brought up some excellent points, actually, it was well thought out and on point, but the underlying problem with many of these football teams is that they're not trying to put together a complete team, they're trying to find a franchise QB and live off that. The problem with the league is that they've removed the QB as a football player but as a wildcard which has promoted this culture we see today at the position. The lack of success out there in Atlanta should be a very good example of how having a franchise QB doesnt fix your problems if you dont have a complete team (Seahawks/Cardinals). 

[CTM]

 

Bruce Arians: I wasn't going to let Logan Thomas fail

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• By Chris Wesseling
• Around the NFL Writer
• Published: March 27, 2015 at 07:37 p.m.
• Updated: March 27, 2015 at 09:28 p.m.

 

 

 

After losing Carson Palmer and Drew Stanton to knee injuries in separate games versus the Rams,Cardinals coach Bruce Arians was desperate for a quarterback entering the 2014 playoffs.

Ryan Lindley set a record for ignominy, passing 229 times without a touchdown to start his NFL career. His 50.3 passer rating and 1-5 record (.167) were the lowest marks by any postseason quarterback in the last 30 years.

So why didn't Arians turn to rifle-armed rookie Logan Thomas, asoriginally planned entering the regular-season finale versus the49ers?

Arians reiterated this week at the NFL Annual Meeting that Thomas simply wasn't ready to start games at the NFL level.

"We drafted him for two years from now, not November," Arians said, via the team's official website. "It just so happened his number got called (earlier.) I was not going to let him fail (in San Francisco) because once you fail those scars never go away.

"It's very hard to get the guys back in the locker room if you cost them the playoffs. I just wasn't going to put him in that situation. Right or wrong, it just was my decision."

Who can find fault with that logic from one of the NFL's preeminent quarterback gurus?

Thomas is a developmental project. Success stories in that category are few and far between, but that won't stop Arians from attempting to refine the former Virginia Tech star's immense physical gifts as an alternative to Palmer down the line.

 

 

 

Isn't Arians basically saying here that he knew Thomas would suck? He's just dressing up the fact that kid isn't ready giving an alternate reason as to why when the team needed him, the coach was unable to put the kid in there due to suckage

[Sperm Edwards]

I never agreed with the "Coaches can't keep a QB on the bench unless you have Brady, Brees or Manning as your QB". Some guys are ready for the task (Luck) but most aren't and need to be developed. The proof is in the pudding. How many QB's are thrown out of the league? A league that is absolutely geared to the position in every way in respects to passing & protection, but with that, the development aspect goes out the window? You can no longer touch a QB, to the point where 4,000 yards is the norm and no longer pro bowl worthy (Schaub, Tannehill) and QB's are not starting to play with efficiency at 38+ years old. However, the high school/college game isn't the same. You have guys that make it to the NFL who have never taken a snap under center that are being drafted in the 1st and 2nd round, being thrown out into the fire and failing out of the league because the league "no longer has time to develop these players". How does the league expect these guys to come into the league and be immediate success stories when they've been running option and spread plays since high school and no longer have to read a defense, but simply play a numbers game on one side of the field? The "dumbing down" of the position is getting so bad that you can't even properly evaluate safeties coming out of college because of the way these college programs are being ran on the offensive side of the ball.

It reminds me of the music industry actually. A&R's sole responsibility is to find and develop musical talent, yet today there are less A&R's developing talent. Artist have to be "plug and play" ready. So music companies notice 1 or 2 nice songs from this new artist, throws that music out there, it becomes a hit but there's no in-depth substance or longevity with many of these artists, and now look at the music industry. Some of the worst music ever made is on the radio right now as "top 40" hits. And like football, its the old heads that are pretty much still running the industry like the way Brady, Manning and Brees do in the NFL. There's much to be said here imo for the lack of player development at the QB position, and its directly correlated with putting the position on a pedestal. They're no longer football players, they're "wildcards". The Cordell Stewart's couldn't survive in this league because it takes time and understanding of what a guy like him can bring to the table in order to get the most out of a guy. You need to be Andrew Luck, and that unfortunately holds true because every QB drafted is compared to Luck ever since Luck was drafted. If you're not "plug and play" ready, odds are you're not going to survive in this league, even if the potential is there.

Some coaches aren't as forward thinking as Arians when it comes to decision making at the QB position. Logan Thomas was a high school Tight End just 5 years ago. You see alot of things in practices that will let you know whether a guy is ready or not. That doesn't necessarily mean that Thomas is bad, it could mean that he needs those two years to be molded by a professional coach that didnt forget the importance of player development, even with his immediate success with guys like Roethlisberger/Luck...because lets be serious, the college game isn't preparing QB's for the pros. My problem with past Jets teams is that practice wasn't even part of the decision. Everyone knew that it was Geno's job when he was drafted, everyone knew it was Sanchez job when he was drafted.

Now I'll give some understanding to the Sanchez decision. It was a new coach coming in and he was making his stamp on the team, and really we just lost Favre and we had no QB, but when we got Geno it wasn't we picked him with our two top 1st round picks. He dropped to the 2nd round and we still had a Mark Sanchez on the squad that whether people want to give credit or not, the Jets were more successful as a team with him under center since their Super Bowl run 1,000 years ago. On top of the fact that Rex and the rest of the coaching staff was still there.

To conclude, you brought up some excellent points, actually, it was well thought out and on point, but the underlying problem with many of these football teams is that they're not trying to put together a complete team, they're trying to find a franchise QB and live off that. The problem with the league is that they've removed the QB as a football player but as a wildcard which has promoted this culture we see today at the position. The lack of success out there in Atlanta should be a very good example of how having a franchise QB doesnt fix your problems if you dont have a complete team (Seahawks/Cardinals).

Great post. I don't think it's limited to the QB position, though. We just took a DT to play guard or tackle (yeah he played it in HS but it's not hte same). He didn't get it right away, as expected, and we kept him. But he was expected to be at least 2nd-string worthy the following year. He had more to learn about being an NFL-level guard than a lot of QB projects have to learn about their position, being that they played it for the prior 3-4 consecutive seasons. So if he didn't get it after 1 year? Dump him. If that's going to be the attitude then why draft such a project?

The assessment that there is almost no chance a guy like Kordell would last long enough to be a starter is likely spot on. It's hard to say, since most projects like that also don't have the ability to be Kordell-level.

There are so many of today's starters that were instant successes, but they're not all like that. You even mention Brady as though he was one of them but he wasn't. His first camp and rookie season he was like 3rd or 4th string (he hadn't taken steroids yet). Then the next year he was still only 2nd string; he got the job because Mo Lewis famously collapsed Bledsoe's lung. Had NE made the playoffs with Bledsoe - particularly if Bledsoe did an ok job at the position - we might not have seen Brady until at least year 3 (or just as likely, later than that). But Brady in 2001 was not what Brady would have been in 2000? Would he have been permanently ruined? I seriously doubt it.

Brees IS a good example, though. If he has "it" then he has it. He may not show it right away, or may not show it consistently right away, but he's not going to be permanently ruined by getting thrown out there too early. I would accept that exceptions to this permanent damage fear would occur if the QB is just getting creamed out there and a young QB gets totally shellshocked and David Carr'd. But just being bad, with some high success mixed in there isn't going to permanently scar an otherwise very good (or great) player.

Pittsburgh also wasn't starting Roethlisberger as a rookie. It happened by accident (like Brady in his 2nd season) because the starter was injured for an extended period.

But the league has gotten spoiled by a lot of instant successes at QB in particular.

Best thing for project player development is to take the pressure of impatience off the HC and GM by expanding the roster size. Then they could stash a couple of guys (a QB among them) without feeling they're weakening the overall roster that they need to compete during the season. Fact is between college and the pros there's simply no minor leagues where players move up in class as they get better.

The decision by Arians was an easy one, that he's overstating for self-serving reasons (and to keep the fans off the player as well). Simply put, Thomas wasn't much more ready to play QB for them than any other player on his roster who could throw a spiral 30 yards. He gave him some live action and saw the kid had no business being on the field, was potentially hurting himself while clearly not helping the team anyway. Lindley was a better QB in 2014 than Thomas. That's why he went in that direction.

[Sperm Edwards]

Isn't Arians basically saying here that he knew Thomas would suck? He's just dressing up the fact that kid isn't ready giving an alternate reason as to why when the team needed him, the coach was unable to put the kid in there due to suckage

This is precisely what he's doing and saying. That the awful Ryan Lindley was a better QB who gave them a better chance of winning.

[jetsrebirth]

I never agreed with the "Coaches can't keep a QB on the bench unless you have Brady, Brees or Manning as your QB". Some guys are ready for the task (Luck) but most aren't and need to be developed. The proof is in the pudding. How many QB's are thrown out of the league? A league that is absolutely geared to the position in every way in respects to passing & protection, but with that, the development aspect goes out the window? You can no longer touch a QB, to the point where 4,000 yards is the norm and no longer pro bowl worthy (Schaub, Tannehill) and QB's are not starting to play with efficiency at 38+ years old. However, the high school/college game isn't the same. You have guys that make it to the NFL who have never taken a snap under center that are being drafted in the 1st and 2nd round, being thrown out into the fire and failing out of the league because the league "no longer has time to develop these players". How does the league expect these guys to come into the league and be immediate success stories when they've been running option and spread plays since high school and no longer have to read a defense, but simply play a numbers game on one side of the field? The "dumbing down" of the position is getting so bad that you can't even properly evaluate safeties coming out of college because of the way these college programs are being ran on the offensive side of the ball.  

 

It reminds me of the music industry actually. A&R's sole responsibility is to find and develop musical talent, yet today there are less A&R's developing talent. Artist have to be "plug and play" ready. So music companies notice 1 or 2 nice songs from this new artist, throws that music out there, it becomes a hit but there's no in-depth substance or longevity with many of these artists, and now look at the music industry. Some of the worst music ever made is on the radio right now as "top 40" hits. And like football, its the old heads that are pretty much still running the industry like the way Brady, Manning and Brees do in the NFL. There's much to be said here imo for the lack of player development at the QB position, and its directly correlated with putting the position on a pedestal. They're no longer football players, they're "wildcards". The Cordell Stewart's couldn't survive in this league because it takes time and understanding of what a guy like him can bring to the table in order to get the most out of a guy. You need to be Andrew Luck, and that unfortunately holds true because every QB drafted is compared to Luck ever since Luck was drafted. If you're not "plug and play" ready, odds are you're not going to survive in this league, even if the potential is there.

 

Some coaches aren't as forward thinking as Arians when it comes to decision making at the QB position. Logan Thomas was a high school Tight End just 5 years ago. You see alot of things in practices that will let you know whether a guy is ready or not. That doesn't necessarily mean that Thomas is bad, it could mean that he needs those two years to be molded by a professional coach that didnt forget the importance of player development, even with his immediate success with guys like Roethlisberger/Luck...because lets be serious, the college game isn't preparing QB's for the pros. My problem with past Jets teams is that practice wasn't even part of the decision. Everyone knew that it was Geno's job when he was drafted, everyone knew it was Sanchez job when he was drafted. 

 

Now I'll give some understanding to the Sanchez decision. It was a new coach coming in and he was making his stamp on the team, and really we just lost Favre and we had no QB, but when we got Geno it wasn't we picked him with our two top 1st round picks. He dropped to the 2nd round and we still had a Mark Sanchez on the squad that whether people want to give credit or not, the Jets were more successful as a team with him under center since their Super Bowl run 1,000 years ago. On top of the fact that Rex and the rest of the coaching staff was still there. 

 

To conclude, you brought up some excellent points, actually, it was well thought out and on point, but the underlying problem with many of these football teams is that they're not trying to put together a complete team, they're trying to find a franchise QB and live off that. The problem with the league is that they've removed the QB as a football player but as a wildcard which has promoted this culture we see today at the position. The lack of success out there in Atlanta should be a very good example of how having a franchise QB doesnt fix your problems if you dont have a complete team (Seahawks/Cardinals). 

 

I think you make some outstanding points in this thread. The bottom line is it takes a coach who understand the QB position. That means understanding what he has or doesnt have at the QB position, and the best way to use and/or develop what he has. The QB position is by far the most complicated position in all of sports, and its not even really close. If you think about it, there are billions of people on this earth, and there are about 10 at any one point in time who are truly good at doing it.

 

To me, that small of a percentage with all of the great points you made about how the NFL is geared towards good QB play, is a very clear indicator that the overwhelming majority of teams and coaches have no idea what they are doing with the QB position.

 

Chalking it up to a player either has it or doesn't have it is one of the most naive point of views in sports, when it comes to the QB position. Other positions I think that has more application, but still not always so black or white.

 

Humans are not robots, and making it a black or white decision makes it about whether the robot has enough mechanical ability and CPU power to succeed, its just wrong, and throughout the history of the NFL, the QB position has showed this both ways.

[Villain The Foe]

The decision by Arians was an easy one, that he's overstating for self-serving reasons (and to keep the fans off the player as well). Simply put, Thomas wasn't much more ready to play QB for them than any other player on his roster who could throw a spiral 30 yards. He gave him some live action and saw the kid had no business being on the field, was potentially hurting himself while clearly not helping the team anyway. Lindley was a better QB in 2014 than Thomas. That's why he went in that direction.

This is my exact position on the topic. When people say that it isn't easy to simply sit someone. I would personally disregard their draft position and look purely at their performance. If Thomas isn't better than Lindley then Thomas shouldn't be on the field. 

 

The perfect example is Mariota. In one breath people state that if Mariota is drafted by the Jets then this means that the Geno project is over and Mariota must start, but then you hear from Woody that as of right now Geno is better than Mariota. Now granted, no one knows anything for sure until Mariota is in camp and you see what he looks like on the practice field, but the decision to put these rookies on the field seems at times to be based on outside pressure, looking for quick results instead of just putting the best player on the field. 

Many times putting the rookie on the field is a better situation because he's simply the better player (Glennon, Carr, Bridgewater), but alot of times these QB's are thrown into the situation because the organization is churning the hype machine without providing longer term developmental effort behind the scene.

 

Speaking of Glennon, this guys potential (to me) is up there, yet his team is probably going to draft a "plug and play" type QB when the QB position isn't where the problems lay. Whats worse is that if with Winston goes #1, there's a 99% chance that he's going to be the starter even if Glennon is actually better in camp. 

[Ex-Rex]

Why post a thread on the HC of ANOTHER TEAM? Stupid. Jet Blue seems to have a fixation on huge jugs. Like that.

[Villain The Foe]

I think you make some outstanding points in this thread. The bottom line is it takes a coach who understand the QB position. That means understanding what he has or doesnt have at the QB position, and the best way to use and/or develop what he has. The QB position is by far the most complicated position in all of sports, and its not even really close. If you think about it, there are billions of people on this earth, and there are about 10 at any one point in time who are truly good at doing it.

 

To me, that small of a percentage with all of the great points you made about how the NFL is geared towards good QB play, is a very clear indicator that the overwhelming majority of teams and coaches have no idea what they are doing with the QB position.

 

Chalking it up to a player either has it or doesn't have it is one of the most naive point of views in sports, when it comes to the QB position. Other positions I think that has more application, but still not always so black or white.

 

Humans are not robots, and making it a black or white decision makes it about whether the robot has enough mechanical ability and CPU power to succeed, its just wrong, and throughout the history of the NFL, the QB position has showed this both ways.

Thank you. 

 

And I totally agree with the highlighted point there. Unfortunately these statements come from coaches who lost. Look at Alex Smith at San Fran for example. Mike Nolan and Mike Singletary both spent years with Alex Smith, with Singletary even saying on record referring to Alex Smith "You just can't win without a good quarterback". Whats funny is that I've never seen Mike Nolan or Mike Singletary hold another head coach position in the league. Meanwhile, Jim Harbaugh came in and had 2 productive years with Smith, traded him, then had productive years with Kaepernick after him. Since Smith was coached by Harbaugh he's never had a year where he's thrown more than 7 INT's and completed less than 60% of his passes in a season. Thats a 4 year stretch from a guy labeled a bust by head coaches that have not found another head coaching job since. Mind you, Alex Smith's current coach Andy Reid is another guy who has found success with pretty much every QB he's had. (McNabb, Vick, Foles, Garcia, Kolb and now Smith)

 

Seems to be a trend here. 

[jetsrebirth]

Thank you. 

 

And I totally agree with the highlighted point there. Unfortunately these statements come from coaches who lost. Look at Alex Smith at San Fran for example. Mike Nolan and Mike Singletary both spent years with Alex Smith, with Singletary even saying on record referring to Alex Smith "You just can't win without a good quarterback". Whats funny is that I've never seen Mike Nolan or Mike Singletary hold another head coach position in the league. Meanwhile, Jim Harbaugh came in and had 2 productive years with Smith, traded him, then had productive years with Kaepernick after him. Since Smith was coached by Harbaugh he's never had a year where he's thrown more than 7 INT's and completed less than 60% of his passes in a season. Thats a 4 year stretch from a guy labeled a bust by head coaches that have not found another head coaching job since. Mind you, Alex Smith's current coach Andy Reid is another guy who has found success with pretty much every QB he's had. (McNabb, Vick, Foles, Garcia, Kolb and now Smith)

 

Seems to be a trend here. 

 

I couldn't agree with you more, and you use excellent examples to back up your points.

 

IMO, there are 2 ways to get a good QB, get very lucky or get people who understand the QB position in your organization. I don't believe that luck is a strategy, so if I were an NFL owner, I would do everything in my power to get in people who understand the QB position above all else.

 

If you sit around hoping to get lucky, you have a very high probability of failing.

 

I really hope that our current regime understand the QB position, because if not we are going to be wasting a few more years.

[Sperm Edwards]

This is my exact position on the topic. When people say that it isn't easy to simply sit someone. I would personally disregard their draft position and look purely at their performance. If Thomas isn't better than Lindley then Thomas shouldn't be on the field. 

 

The perfect example is Mariota. In one breath people state that if Mariota is drafted by the Jets then this means that the Geno project is over and Mariota must start, but then you hear from Woody that as of right now Geno is better than Mariota. Now granted, no one knows anything for sure until Mariota is in camp and you see what he looks like on the practice field, but the decision to put these rookies on the field seems at times to be based on outside pressure, looking for quick results instead of just putting the best player on the field. 

Many times putting the rookie on the field is a better situation because he's simply the better player (Glennon, Carr, Bridgewater), but alot of times these QB's are thrown into the situation because the organization is churning the hype machine without providing longer term developmental effort behind the scene.

 

Speaking of Glennon, this guys potential (to me) is up there, yet his team is probably going to draft a "plug and play" type QB when the QB position isn't where the problems lay. Whats worse is that if with Winston goes #1, there's a 99% chance that he's going to be the starter even if Glennon is actually better in camp.

I don't disagree at all. I just think that Arians is getting extra smarts credit for his wording of why Thomas wasn't used rather than the true reason. It's his candy-coated way of saying Thomas was even worse than Ryan Lindley. If he thought Thomas could even be as good as rookie-Sanchez or rookie-Geno level he'd have used him over Lindley. They were the #1 seed and he isn't a favorite to be so again. If he pissed away the #1 seed in mid-December just in case an otherwise useful Thomas might get shellshocked, by starting as little as 1 football game, then it speaks to more than just some philosophy about using young QBs.

It means his decision was easy because Thomas was just that bad, not because he didn't want to risk ruining him by letting him start a game in either week 16 or 17. Also there's a good chance the whole Cardinals team (not just Arians and the coaches) knew Thomas wasn't ready/worthy of the starting job. Though the specifics are different, it's a little like the Jets with Tebow when it was obvious Sanchez needed to be pulled. Sure, Arians didn't want an 11-3 team to blame Thomas for ruining their season, but he also didn't want them to blame him for using his pet QB.

There's no reason to doubt he made the right decision (even though they failed with Lindley), but the way he put it is as much PR as it is coaching and developing.