Something else to look forward to: The Geno/Harvin/Marshal effect

[LIJetsFan]

http://turnonthejets.com/2015/05/toj-fan-friday-the-marshall-machine/#more-27064

 

Geno Smith is regarded as one of the league’s worst QBs, and statistically that ranking is deserved. For the past two seasons, Geno was throwing into holes he had no business throwing into. Against the Bills in the middle of last season he threw three interceptions in three plays leading to a needed benching.

But Smith’s last six games were quietly solid. He had a 66% completion rating over 134 attempts and 6 TDs to only 3 interceptions. He changed his TD/INT ratio from +0.7 to +2.0. His passer rating averaged out at 91.85, putting him in the same bracket as Joe Flacco, Jay Cutler, and Eli Manning.

So what happened?

To figure that out, we need to go back to the beginning of this season. The Jets WR depth chart is Eric Decker, Jeremy Kerley, and David Nelson going into the season.  Defenses could trust their CB2 and nickel to cover Kerley and Nelson with next to no help, allocating players to help cover Decker, or assist in the pass rush.

No one could get open, and Geno suffered for it. Smith had 7 TDs and 10 interceptions with an abysmal 56% completion rating and a 58.53 RAT, earning a spot on the bench. But then Percy Harvin comes in via trade and defenses have to worry about someone other than Decker. Despite Harvin’s shortcomings, you can’t just leave the guy open and you certainly can’t leave your CB2 on a player who’s that fast. The depth charts were finally lined up correctly, with the opponent’s CB2 going up against the very talented Decker, the nickel being challenged by Kerley.

For the first time in his entire career, Geno had a WR corps worth the name and he responded well. By giving Geno looks and separation he’s never had before, he made less mistakes with the ball, hit his targets, and produced more passing touchdowns.

This off-season Mike Maccagnan replaced Harvin with the much more talented Brandon Marshall, who can go against top CB1s in middle and short passing game game, an ability Harvin lacked. What does this mean for Geno?

He now has the tools to prove himself. The Smith-Marshall connection is going to be key this year, and they both know it. Geno and Marshall are actually living together in the offseason, working on their chemistry and improving their knowledge of the new offensive system. Building chemistry with his new #1 target in Marshall will be critical, as his connection to Decker and Kerley has already been developed.

If Geno can get Marshall over a thousand yards with minimal turnovers, spreading the ball to the Decker, Amaro, Kerley, and rookie speedster Devin Smith, I think he may exceed expectations. Geno has proven he can produce more with talent around him. I’m excited to see what he can do with by far the most talented WR group he’s ever thrown to.

[Jetdawgg]

I just want Geno to make the throws that he "has" to make at those critical times. With this WR Corps, a real NFL caliber one, he should do quite well.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

It would be great if Geno can make the next step, but we also saw improvement towards the end of his rookie season, looked good in the opener vs the Raiders and then he regressed... 

 

That said the WR group is much better this year, I was in favor of keeping Harvin but it played out perfectly for the Jets, saved 10M in cap space and used the 4th round pick for Petty 

[jorge o8]

true and for a period of time Decker was hurt and then Kerley was hurt for some time, this year my hopes are very high for Geno and I hope he takes that next step that all of us jets fans have been waiting for.

[CTM]

so it iz da weaponz?

[SoFlaJets]

Oh no, another off-season looking at blocks of games and using those numbers to try and create some kind of promise or hope of the guy finally turning the corner. What about all of those 3 and outs, I never saw a Jets team so offensively inept. Look, I have no agenda against Geno Smith but all I DO know is he ain't good enough. If the Jets are going to make a move up the standings they have to let this guy go because once a guy is named the starter you have to lose another quarter of a season before a move is made-and it's ALWAYS too fricking late.

[Integrity28]

so it iz da weaponz?

Yes. Until it isn't anymore.

[LIJetsFan]

Oh no, another off-season looking at blocks of games and using those numbers to try and create some kind of promise or hope of the guy finally turning the corner. What about all of those 3 and outs, I never saw a Jets team so offensively inept. Look, I have no agenda against Geno Smith but all I DO know is he ain't good enough. If the Jets are going to make a move up the standings they have to let this guy go because once a guy is named the starter you have to lose another quarter of a season before a move is made-and it's ALWAYS too fricking late.

All the article is saying, which is also what I believe, is that it's reasonable to attribute Geno's late season improved performance to a more highly functioning WR corps.  This is the season we'll find out.  I doubt Bowles sticks with a failing Geno too long (a la Rex).  So, I'm hopeful, and not ready to KNOW Geno sux.    

[SickJetFan]

 

http://turnonthejets.com/2015/05/toj-fan-friday-the-marshall-machine/#more-27064

 

Geno Smith is regarded as one of the league’s worst QBs, and statistically that ranking is deserved. For the past two seasons, Geno was throwing into holes he had no business throwing into. Against the Bills in the middle of last season he threw three interceptions in three plays leading to a needed benching.

But Smith’s last six games were quietly solid. He had a 66% completion rating over 134 attempts and 6 TDs to only 3 interceptions. He changed his TD/INT ratio from +0.7 to +2.0. His passer rating averaged out at 91.85, putting him in the same bracket as Joe Flacco, Jay Cutler, and Eli Manning.

So what happened?

To figure that out, we need to go back to the beginning of this season. The Jets WR depth chart is Eric Decker, Jeremy Kerley, and David Nelson going into the season.  Defenses could trust their CB2 and nickel to cover Kerley and Nelson with next to no help, allocating players to help cover Decker, or assist in the pass rush.

No one could get open, and Geno suffered for it. Smith had 7 TDs and 10 interceptions with an abysmal 56% completion rating and a 58.53 RAT, earning a spot on the bench. But then Percy Harvin comes in via trade and defenses have to worry about someone other than Decker. Despite Harvin’s shortcomings, you can’t just leave the guy open and you certainly can’t leave your CB2 on a player who’s that fast. The depth charts were finally lined up correctly, with the opponent’s CB2 going up against the very talented Decker, the nickel being challenged by Kerley.

For the first time in his entire career, Geno had a WR corps worth the name and he responded well. By giving Geno looks and separation he’s never had before, he made less mistakes with the ball, hit his targets, and produced more passing touchdowns.

This off-season Mike Maccagnan replaced Harvin with the much more talented Brandon Marshall, who can go against top CB1s in middle and short passing game game, an ability Harvin lacked. What does this mean for Geno?

He now has the tools to prove himself. The Smith-Marshall connection is going to be key this year, and they both know it. Geno and Marshall are actually living together in the offseason, working on their chemistry and improving their knowledge of the new offensive system. Building chemistry with his new #1 target in Marshall will be critical, as his connection to Decker and Kerley has already been developed.

If Geno can get Marshall over a thousand yards with minimal turnovers, spreading the ball to the Decker, Amaro, Kerley, and rookie speedster Devin Smith, I think he may exceed expectations. Geno has proven he can produce more with talent around him. I’m excited to see what he can do with by far the most talented WR group he’s ever thrown to.

 

This is true and could also be argued the same for Sanchez.  Geno may turn it around give us something to cheer about...I hope so!

 

But many times Geno missed wide open target and/or thought apposing CB was one of his receivers.  When the going got tough he usually fell apart.  Now with better and more wide open receivers we may start winning the games we should which gets you to 8-8 season.  Hopefully with Chan at the helm we start winning the games we shouldn't.

 

I guess we will see..we don't even know if Geno will play this year.  Just because marshal think so so t make it so

[CTM]

Yes. Until it isn't anymore.

 

 

 

[FloridaJetsFan]

I'll take the the opposite position of the majority on this board and will remain optimistic.

[SoFlaJets]

I'll take the the opposite position of the majority on this board and will remain optimistic.

There is a difference between being optimistic (like you and like me with caveat) and blind optimism, which those who want to use the second half of a season's statistical numbers (for the second year in a row) as a reason to believe in the WORST QB IN THE LEAGUE (like LIJetsFan). I'd much rather put my trust and the ball in the hands of a smarter player, like Ryan Fitzpatrick who has better stats than in the pipe dream that is Geno Smith. 

[Savage69]

I'll take the the opposite position of the majority on this board and will remain optimistic.

Geno can still become a franchise player if he buys a KFC,Pizza Hut or a Mickey D's...

[peekskill68]

Geno can still become a franchise player if he buys a KFC,Pizza Hut or a Mickey D's...

 

That's cold man...

[jetsons]

geno blows  :/

[SoFlaJets]

geno blows  :/

this

[LIJetsFan]

There is a difference between being optimistic (like you and like me with caveat) and blind optimism, which those who want to use the second half of a season's statistical numbers (for the second year in a row) as a reason to believe in the WORST QB IN THE LEAGUE (like LIJetsFan). I'd much rather put my trust and the ball in the hands of a smarter player, like Ryan Fitzpatrick who has better stats than in the pipe dream that is Geno Smith.

.

I've a question for you. Do you believe that our WR corps was a little more open once Harvin arrived? If so, is it possible that Geno was a better QB because of it?

Now I'm not saying that I believe in Geno. I am hopeful that there is a coorilation. I believe anyone who isn't might very well have an agenda.

[slats]

It would be great if Geno can make the next step, but we also saw improvement towards the end of his rookie season, looked good in the opener vs the Raiders and then he regressed... 

 

That said the WR group is much better this year, I was in favor of keeping Harvin but it played out perfectly for the Jets, saved 10M in cap space and used the 4th round pick for Petty

Fans hate on Geno and a lot of it is valid, but so is the argument LIJF is putting forth here: weaponz matter!

I recognize that Fitzpatrick is seen as smarter (than probably anyone else in the league), but Geno still has the much higher ceiling. Better athlete, stronger arm, faster. They're going to give him every opportunity to be the opening day starter. And this will be his last chance, because this new regime has no ties to him, either. With a solid WR corps for the first time in his career, he's got to make the most it. If the coaches think the team is being held back by the QB, they won't hesitate to pull him.

We've also got Decker coming to his defense, and Marshall coming in thinking Geno's the starter. I think there's something to that, too.

[Bugg]

geno blows dead donkey balls  :/

Fixed.

[SoFlaJets]

yes LIJF, I DO have an agenda; I'm sick of watching Jets send out quarterbacks who have no business being starting quarterbacks in a league driven BY QB play. Ground and pound is obsolete, The game has clearly changed and unfortunately we have been stuck with a coach who was just as inept as the QBs he sent out there.

 

Last season I was watching that first game and said here in the game thread" hey it looks like we finally got ourselves a QB" and then it all fell apart, and I didn't see a much better QB after Harvin got here and Decker got better, I saw one game that may have pushed the numbers into respectability level but otherwise what I saw was a mediocre player who had maybe 2 great games  and a bunch of bad ones and maybe half were meh-9-13 100 yard 1 TD type crap.

 

I DEMAND BETTER  

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Fans hate on Geno and a lot of it is valid, but so is the argument LIJF is putting forth here: weaponz matter!

I recognize that Fitzpatrick is seen as smarter (than probably anyone else in the league), but Geno still has the much higher ceiling. Better athlete, stronger arm, faster. They're going to give him every opportunity to be the opening day starter. And this will be his last chance, because this new regime has no ties to him, either. With a solid WR corps for the first time in his career, he's got to make the most it. If the coaches think the team is being held back by the QB, they won't hesitate to pull him.

We've also got Decker coming to his defense, and Marshall coming in thinking Geno's the starter. I think there's something to that, too.

 

All valid points, and I agree that having skill at the skill positions matters = "weaponz"

 

I have no hate for Geno and while I would not put money on it, I really hope he does well, he has earned a chance and should be given that opportunity, training camp will be fun this year

[EM31]

Yes. Until it isn't anymore.

 

[slats]

yes LIJF, I DO have an agenda; I'm sick of watching Jets send out quarterbacks who have no business being starting quarterbacks in a league driven BY QB play. Ground and pound is obsolete, The game has clearly changed and unfortunately we have been stuck with a coach who was just as inept as the QBs he sent out there.

 

Last season I was watching that first game and said here in the game thread" hey it looks like we finally got ourselves a QB" and then it all fell apart, and I didn't see a much better QB after Harvin got here and Decker got better, I saw one game that may have pushed the numbers into respectability level but otherwise what I saw was a mediocre player who had maybe 2 great games  and a bunch of bad ones and maybe half were meh-9-13 100 yard 1 TD type crap.

 

I DEMAND BETTER

I don't think that's entirely fair. And demanding better isn't gonna get you anywhere, as there's no guarantee of better on the current roster. Best case scenario for the Jets is for Geno to be better. He needs the light to go on for him. Some things he does really well, others he does really poorly. He holds onto the football way too long, and then turns it over or gets sacked or both. That's bad! If he can take to some coaching where he's instructed to get rid of the ball faster, good things could happen for him.

Geno sucks, and the Raiders think they have a franchise QB. Yet, Geno had a better passer rating, comp%, same TD%, and a dramatically better YPA last season. He does some things well.

Chan Gailey's spread-like offense is a better fit for Geno, and the receivers he has this year are the best he's ever had. It's now or never for him - unless fans get their wish with Fitzpatrick, and he craps the bed. Lol. Then Geno might get another chance. But it's happy time for me. I expect Geno to be the starter, and I look forward to seeing what he does with it.

[SoFlaJets]

With the scrub as the starter you can also look forward to staring straight up the standing in the AFC East Slats, because he is the worst QB not only in the division, and not only in the conference but the worst IN THE LEAGUE. I'd much rather take my chances with Fitzpatrick and if not him and it's going to be a nothing season again, then give me one of the kids OTHER than Smith to start. I really have no faith that the New York Jets can make the playoffs with him at QB-regardless of who we have at receiver or who the OC is or how good the defense appears to be. We have seen how a great defense having 45 seconds of rest wears down. Geno Smith is the king of the 3 and outs

[Jet Nut]

This is true and could also be argued the same for Sanchez.  Geno may turn it around give us something to cheer about...I hope so!

 

But many times Geno missed wide open target and/or thought apposing CB was one of his receivers.  When the going got tough he usually fell apart.  Now with better and more wide open receivers we may start winning the games we should which gets you to 8-8 season.  Hopefully with Chan at the helm we start winning the games we shouldn't.

 

I guess we will see..we don't even know if Geno will play this year.  Just because marshal think so so t make it so

Not really an argument for Sanchez. He had Holmes, Edwards, Cotchery and a receiving TE with Keller along with a top running game and sucked.

[j4jets]

Oh no, another off-season looking at blocks of games and using those numbers to try and create some kind of promise or hope of the guy finally turning the corner. What about all of those 3 and outs, I never saw a Jets team so offensively inept. Look, I have no agenda against Geno Smith but all I DO know is he ain't good enough. If the Jets are going to make a move up the standings they have to let this guy go because once a guy is named the starter you have to lose another quarter of a season before a move is made-and it's ALWAYS too fricking late.

Did read most of your nonsense post. My guess is you did the same with the OP.

[JetBlue]

With the scrub as the starter you can also look forward to staring straight up the standing in the AFC East Slats, because he is the worst QB not only in the division, and not only in the conference but the worst IN THE LEAGUE. I'd much rather take my chances with Fitzpatrick and if not him and it's going to be a nothing season again, then give me one of the kids OTHER than Smith to start. I really have no faith that the New York Jets can make the playoffs with him at QB-regardless of who we have at receiver or who the OC is or how good the defense appears to be. We have seen how a great defense having 45 seconds of rest wears down. Geno Smith is the king of the 3 and outs

 

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

[JohnnyLV]

With the scrub as the starter you can also look forward to staring straight up the standing in the AFC East Slats, because he is the worst QB not only in the division, and not only in the conference but the worst IN THE LEAGUE. I'd much rather take my chances with Fitzpatrick and if not him and it's going to be a nothing season again, then give me one of the kids OTHER than Smith to start. I really have no faith that the New York Jets can make the playoffs with him at QB-regardless of who we have at receiver or who the OC is or how good the defense appears to be. We have seen how a great defense having 45 seconds of rest wears down. Geno Smith is the king of the 3 and outs

 

When will be realize that Rex was the root of our offensive problems. Forced into wildcat and ground and pound putting the QB in horrible situations and essentially never giving Geno any weapons at all. Geno is better and significantly just because of the move away from Rex, MM and David Lee

[j4jets]

.

I've a question for you. Do you believe that our WR corps was a little more open once Harvin arrived? If so, is it possible that Geno was a better QB because of it?

Now I'm not saying that I believe in Geno. I am hopeful that there is a coorilation. I believe anyone who isn't might very well have an agenda.

He's calling it "blind optimism" when he's unwilling to look at the reasoning and completely ignoring the fact that we had the worst receiving corps.

[Charlie Brown]

This is true and could also be argued the same for Sanchez.  Geno may turn it around give us something to cheer about...I hope so!

 

But many times Geno missed wide open target and/or thought apposing CB was one of his receivers.  When the going got tough he usually fell apart.  Now with better and more wide open receivers we may start winning the games we should which gets you to 8-8 season.  Hopefully with Chan at the helm we start winning the games we shouldn't.

 

I guess we will see..we don't even know if Geno will play this year.  Just because marshal think so so t make it so

This is 100%

 

The idea that a QB is going to magically elevate a poor WR group is insanity!!!

 

In the last decade only Brady did that and I am no longer willing to believe that he even did that legitimately anymore!

[Il Mostro]

If Geno is just OK he will have ascended to the top of the mountain.

[Charlie Brown]

Not really an argument for Sanchez. He had Holmes, Edwards, Cotchery and a receiving TE with Keller along with a top running game and sucked.

You think that is a quality WR and Tight end group?

 

See how many Probowl  appearances that group made before and after their time with Sanchez that should be a good gauge of how GREAT the Jets WR core was? 

 

We weren't even in that same ball park as when we had Coles and Moss on the team.

 

You also conveniently don't mention the other guys like Buress, Mason and HOF Chaz that were on offense whose actual presence HURT the team offensively. They count because there presence on the field diminished the potential of other players. 

 

The truth is the offensive players at WR and TE on the Jets in 2009 and 2010 were adequate at best! 

 

Only we Jets fans think that Keller and Cotchery are top flight players. 

 

Marshall and Decker are light years better than what we have had out on the field for almost a decade!!

[bealeb319]

This is true and could also be argued the same for Sanchez.  Geno may turn it around give us something to cheer about...I hope so!

 

But many times Geno missed wide open target and/or thought apposing CB was one of his receivers.  When the going got tough he usually fell apart.  Now with better and more wide open receivers we may start winning the games we should which gets you to 8-8 season.  Hopefully with Chan at the helm we start winning the games we shouldn't.

 

I guess we will see..we don't even know if Geno will play this year.  Just because marshal think so so t make it so

With the talent we have on the team right now there aren't to many games that we shouldn't win.

[Charlie Brown]

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

 

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

 

 

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

 

 

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

 

 

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

 

 

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

 

 

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

 

 

This is what you are not getting; he is going to have to COMPETE to win the job, get it? No one is giving him anything; if he wins the job it will because he OUTPLAYED Fitz.  I know you are frustrated and with good reason.   Decker seems to believe in him and so does Marshall.  I am willing to see what happens and hoping for the best.   The CS really doesn't care what fans think and will make their own evaluations on who will be the starter.  In the case of this particular staff, I will give them the benefit of the doubt on whomever they choose.   It might be better for your blood pressure if you just relax and see what happens. 

This 100%

[Jet Nut]

You think that is a quality WR and Tight end group?

See how many Probowl appearances that group made before and after their time with Sanchez that should be a good gauge of how GREAT the Jets WR core was?

We weren't even in that same ball park as when we had Coles and Moss on the team.

You also conveniently don't mention the other guys like Buress, Mason and HOF Chaz that were on offense whose actual presence HURT the team offensively. They count because there presence on the field diminished the potential of other players.

The truth is the offensive players at WR and TE on the Jets in 2009 and 2010 were adequate at best!

Only we Jets fans think that Keller and Cotchery are top flight players.

Marshall and Decker are light years better than what we have had out on the field for almost a decade!!

Yeah, I do think that that group is better than what Genos had to work with. Pro Bowls? Didn't Holmes make it the year before he came to the Jets? Didn't he put up 79 catches, 1,248 receiving yards, and five touchdowns? Braylon had 1,289 yards with 16 TDs. Not good enough? You seem to have taken that simple, easy fact and tried way too hard to dispute it.

Now work on where I said Keller or Cotchery were top flight players. Really going toargue that Keller wasn't a receiving TE?

Did it never crossed your mind that Holmes or Braylon or anyone would never, ever put up numbers with the horrible mess named Sanchez as our QB. Simple, that group is better than Geno had up until now.