The NY Jets staff hate Geno Smith

[sourceworx]

37 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Has anyone considered that rather than hate, they have been evaluating him for two years and maybe they just don't think he's very good at football?

No. That's impossible.

[Rangers9]

22 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

What good is speed when you have a QB who can't throw accurately past 5 yards?

Well just because your waterboy can play better than our starting Qb doesn't mean you have to rub it in.

[PatsFanTX]

Meh, works for Brady. 

Did you just compare Fitz to Brady?????

[The Crusher]

Just now, PatsFanTX said:

Did you just compare Fitz to Brady?????

Well they do both have beards. No?

[Jetsfan80]

42 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Has anyone considered that rather than hate, they have been evaluating him for two years and maybe they just don't think he's very good at football?

Of course that's the case.  But in a situation where Fitz is playing terrible, it should be Petty placed in the game.  His path is blocked, however, by Geno.  So if they won't put Geno in in an obvious situation in which to do so, even for a few plays, then they should have cut him before the season started. 

Previously I felt keeping him around was only worthwhile because of a potential compensatory pick we could have gotten for him (even a 7th rounder is better than nothing).  But if they don't want him in games even in obvious situations where the backup should come in, then he carries zero value to this team and shouldn't be here to waste a roster spot. 

As far as the coaching staff being scared to pull Fitz, I compare the situation to a soccer goalie.  When you pull your goalie, it's more of a statement about the whole team playing terrible and how other changes are likely or very possible for the next game or down the road.  Pulling Fitz wouldn't have been purely a move to put 100 % of the blame on him.  It would have been a signal to the whole team that if the coaching staff is pulling the QB, anyone else could be next if they don't do the job. 

[SAR I]

40 minutes ago, JiF said:

That's fine and probably accurate.  But we're talking about hating a player.  If they "hated" him, he'd be gone.  

I'm just kind of baffled that this is a conversation.  It seems very simple.

I mean, seriously....we are in a really bad situation if we have a staff that wastes a roster spot on a player they "hate".  What's the point? 

I dont think Fitz deserves to be benched.  I never said that.

In an emergency, if Petty is injured and Hackenberg completely unprepared, having Geno Smith as an "oh shi-t" quarterback is the only move that makes sense.  Yeah, could have gotten another JAG in here, but Smith knows the system, just about his only saving grace.

SAR I

[cant wait]

Pulling the QB would have been pointless, the game was still winnable until late in the 4th quarter until the pick 6 sealed it. Wouldn't have made a difference who was playing after that

[Augustiniak]

14 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Pulling the QB would have been pointless, the game was still winnable until late in the 4th quarter until the pick 6 sealed it. Wouldn't have made a difference who was playing after that

the problem with not pulling him is that it sends a message to the rest of the team that the qb is not being held accountable for his sucking.  if another player sucks and is pulled, then it shows the coach favors fitz, and while the qb is a unique animal, bowles can't be perceived to have different thresholds for benching.  

[Lith]

18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So if they won't put Geno in in an obvious situation in which to do so, even for a few plays, then they should have cut him before the season started. 

Previously I felt keeping him around was only worthwhile because of a potential compensatory pick we could have gotten for him (even a 7th rounder is better than nothing).  But if they don't want him in games even in obvious situations where the backup should come in, then he carries zero value to this team and shouldn't be here to waste a roster spot. 

This is pretty much where I am at on the whole thing.  If your coaching staff does not trust Geno enough to put him out there after 3 straight possessions end in picks, including 2 in the end zone.  Doesn't trust him after a seemingly unending string of bad reads, bad decisions and bad throws by the starter, why would they trust him to take over for FItz in case of injury.  

[drsamuel84]

1 hour ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Has anyone considered that rather than hate, they have been evaluating him for two years and maybe they just don't think he's very good at football?

Then why is he on the roster?  You have such little faith in him that you keep your QB in there to throw 6 INT's.  If that's the case he shouldn't be taking up a roster spot.  Fitzpatrick has not earned the right to stay in the game when he's playing that poorly. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, drsamuel84 said:

Then why is he on the roster?  You have such little faith in him that you keep your QB in there to throw 6 INT's.  If that's the case he shouldn't be taking up a roster spot.  Fitzpatrick has not earned the right to stay in the game when he's playing that poorly. 

well, based on the kc game, he's there b/c 1) petty is not healthy, and 2) he goes in if fitz is injured.  he's not there to relieve fitz no matter how bad fitz plays.

[SAR I]

44 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

well, based on the kc game, he's there b/c 1) petty is not healthy, and 2) he goes in if fitz is injured.  he's not there to relieve fitz no matter how bad fitz plays.

So, basically, Geno Smith is a superfan, he's got the best Club Seats in the house and gets paid to sit in them.

PSL's are investment gold after all.

SAR I

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Of course that's the case.  But in a situation where Fitz is playing terrible, it should be Petty placed in the game.  His path is blocked, however, by Geno.  So if they won't put Geno in in an obvious situation in which to do so, even for a few plays, then they should have cut him before the season started. 

Previously I felt keeping him around was only worthwhile because of a potential compensatory pick we could have gotten for him (even a 7th rounder is better than nothing).  But if they don't want him in games even in obvious situations where the backup should come in, then he carries zero value to this team and shouldn't be here to waste a roster spot. 

As far as the coaching staff being scared to pull Fitz, I compare the situation to a soccer goalie.  When you pull your goalie, it's more of a statement about the whole team playing terrible and how other changes are likely or very possible for the next game or down the road.  Pulling Fitz wouldn't have been purely a move to put 100 % of the blame on him.  It would have been a signal to the whole team that if the coaching staff is pulling the QB, anyone else could be next if they don't do the job. 

Maybe they think Petty is bad too.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Of course that's the case.  But in a situation where Fitz is playing terrible, it should be Petty placed in the game.  His path is blocked, however, by Geno.  So if they won't put Geno in in an obvious situation in which to do so, even for a few plays, then they should have cut him before the season started. 

Previously I felt keeping him around was only worthwhile because of a potential compensatory pick we could have gotten for him (even a 7th rounder is better than nothing).  But if they don't want him in games even in obvious situations where the backup should come in, then he carries zero value to this team and shouldn't be here to waste a roster spot. 

As far as the coaching staff being scared to pull Fitz, I compare the situation to a soccer goalie.  When you pull your goalie, it's more of a statement about the whole team playing terrible and how other changes are likely or very possible for the next game or down the road.  Pulling Fitz wouldn't have been purely a move to put 100 % of the blame on him.  It would have been a signal to the whole team that if the coaching staff is pulling the QB, anyone else could be next if they don't do the job. 

Well, Bowles said they were still in the game.  That's why he never even thought about benching Fitz.  I tend to believe that is a 100% truth.  And nothing else.  

It's fun to act like its something else, I guess. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, drsamuel84 said:

Then why is he on the roster?  You have such little faith in him that you keep your QB in there to throw 6 INT's.  If that's the case he shouldn't be taking up a roster spot.  Fitzpatrick has not earned the right to stay in the game when he's playing that poorly. 

I don't know. There are an endless amount of reasonable scenarios as to why that could be the case. Maybe they think the two guys behind him are worse. Maybe Petty actually is hurt and they don't want to risk being put in a position where they would have to play Hackenberg. Maybe Steven Seagal has personally threatened to break all of Macaggnan's extremities if he cuts Geno. Maybe Bowles and Geno are stuck in some sort of Space Jam together. I honestly have no idea and neither do you. And speculating on this is kind of dumb. It Geno were worth playing it would seem logical to have played him by now. 

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Maybe they think Petty is bad too.

Maybe they think all the QB's are bad.  Maybe Macc can't evaluate QB's.  Maybe we're f*cked.  Those are situations that are all completely in play right now. 

[RutgersJetFan]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Maybe they think all the QB's are bad.  Maybe Macc can't evaluate QB's.  Maybe we're f*cked.  Those are situations that are all completely in play right now. 

There is that. OP and the jejune brigade are implying that a personal grudge against the backup quarterback, manifesting for apparently no reason, is the only thing preventing him from being fairly evaluated, because they haven't been doing so for the past 2 offseasons. That's the scenario being laid out.  And aside from the notion that it sounds only slightly preposterous, in the unlikely event it were the case we are completely screwed and will be rehiring a new front office and coach by 2018. 

[drsamuel84]

11 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I don't know. There are an endless amount of reasonable scenarios as to why that could be the case. Maybe they think the two guys behind him are worse. Maybe Petty actually is hurt and they don't want to risk being put in a position where they would have to play Hackenberg. Maybe Steven Seagal has personally threatened to break all of Macaggnan'a extremities if he cuts Geno. Maybe Bowles and Geno are stuck in some sort of Space Jam together. I honestly have no idea and neither do you. And speculating on this is kind of dumb. It Geno were worth playing it would seem logical to have played him by now. 

Exactly, my point the CS obviously doesn't think he's worth playing so why keep him around?

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, drsamuel84 said:

Exactly, my point the CS obviously doesn't think he's worth playing so why keep him around?

I don't know. There are an endless amount of reasonable scenarios as to why that could be the case. Maybe they think the two guys behind him are worse. Maybe Petty actually is hurt and they don't want to risk being put in a position where they would have to play Hackenberg. Maybe Steven Seagal has personally threatened to break all of Macaggnan's extremities if he cuts Geno. Maybe Bowles and Geno are stuck in some sort of Space Jam together. I honestly have no idea and neither do you. And speculating on this is kind of dumb. It Geno were worth playing it would seem logical to have played him by now

[Augustiniak]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

So, basically, Geno Smith is a superfan, he's got the best Club Seats in the house and gets paid to sit in them.

PSL's are investment gold after all.

SAR I

geno has a free pass unless there's an injury.  he may get even luckier when petty returns and he starts being inactive.

[SAR I]

32 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

geno has a free pass unless there's an injury.  he may get even luckier when petty returns and he starts being inactive.

Based on what he did to IK Empicpoali we know that his $5,019,000 of undeserved money is going to last him his whole life, he'll go back to West Virginia and open a mobile phone store to keep himself busy, refuse to tip the waitress at Cracker Barrel, get hit in the mouth by her boyfriend, and lose the head coaching job at Filmore Junior High School to an older guy with no proven track record.

SAR I

[EM31]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Based on what he did to IK Empicpoali we know that his $5,019,000 of undeserved money is going to last him his whole life, he'll go back to West Virginia and open a mobile phone store to keep himself busy, refuse to tip the waitress at Cracker Barrel, get hit in the mouth by her boyfriend, and lose the head coaching job at Filmore Junior High School to an older guy with no proven track record.

SAR I

Whereupon six former posters from a NY Jets message board will whine loudly to anyone within earshot how the world is being unfair to poor Geno.

[Joe Jets fan]

21 minutes ago, EM31 said:

Whereupon six former posters from a NY Jets message board will whine loudly to anyone within earshot how the world is being unfair to poor Geno.

This.

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

This is pretty much where I am at on the whole thing.  If your coaching staff does not trust Geno enough to put him out there after 3 straight possessions end in picks, including 2 in the end zone.  Doesn't trust him after a seemingly unending string of bad reads, bad decisions and bad throws by the starter, why would they trust him to take over for FItz in case of injury.  

I think this says more about Bowles coaching philosophy than their trust in Geno. Put simply, he'd be cut if they didn't think he could step in if asked to. They had no problem cutting other high profile picks (Amaro is an easy example)...

But Bowles' seems to be the kind of coach who will fall on his sword before making what he would call a "knee-jerk reaction". If Fitz was chosen to start sunday vs the Hawks, then barring an injury, that son of a gun will see every last snap in that game, even if he throws 7 interceptions. 

The other thing to consider is that if they put Geno in late and he scored even one TD -- you've basically ignited the fan-mob. First pick next week - they'll be reaching for pitchforks if Smith isn't trotted out there to replace Fitz. 

[win4ever]

I don't quite understand all the Geno hate to be honest.  

He came into the league with a system that wasn't a fit at all.  Going from an Air Raid offense to WCO offense is ridiculously hard because everything is different.  In an Air Raid, or most spread offenses, you are trying to find the weak spot in a defense that's spread thin and attack that weak spots.  It's all about reading the offense at the line, whereas the WCO is all about saying "My man can beat your guy to a certain spot and you can't do anything about it".  This works well when the running game was still a big priority, so defenses were forced to bring defenders into the box.  In essence, the WCO offense was taking advantage of favorable matchups because the defense was geared to stop the run more.  This slowly erodes as the value of running goes down, so they have to adjust, or have great player.  We had neither.  

How would anyone do good with this cast?  A lazy and done Santonio? Picked off the street David Nelson?  What has he done afterwards? Greg Salas looked good, and instantly got hurt.  Clyde Gates?  Stephen Hill? Jeff Cumberland? Remember when Salin Hakim was a possible savior? Jeremy Kerley?  Not to mention that our main feature back couldn't catch much out of the backfield.   Next year, we added Percy Harvin, who is basically out of the league now.  

Off all the players, Eric Decker was the only legitimate WR that Geno Smith had in his first two years. I'm not saying Geno is going to step in and take us to the promised land, but why does he get so much hate?  I would have loved to see what Geno could do with these weapons and system before we let him go at the end of the year.  

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I don't quite understand all the Geno hate to be honest.  

He came into the league with a system that wasn't a fit at all.  Going from an Air Raid offense to WCO offense is ridiculously hard because everything is different.  In an Air Raid, or most spread offenses, you are trying to find the weak spot in a defense that's spread thin and attack that weak spots.  It's all about reading the offense at the line, whereas the WCO is all about saying "My man can beat your guy to a certain spot and you can't do anything about it".  This works well when the running game was still a big priority, so defenses were forced to bring defenders into the box.  In essence, the WCO offense was taking advantage of favorable matchups because the defense was geared to stop the run more.  This slowly erodes as the value of running goes down, so they have to adjust, or have great player.  We had neither.  

How would anyone do good with this cast?  A lazy and done Santonio? Picked off the street David Nelson?  What has he done afterwards? Greg Salas looked good, and instantly got hurt.  Clyde Gates?  Stephen Hill? Jeff Cumberland? Remember when Salin Hakim was a possible savior? Jeremy Kerley?  Not to mention that our main feature back couldn't catch much out of the backfield.   Next year, we added Percy Harvin, who is basically out of the league now.  

Off all the players, Eric Decker was the only legitimate WR that Geno Smith had in his first two years. I'm not saying Geno is going to step in and take us to the promised land, but why does he get so much hate?  I would have loved to see what Geno could do with these weapons and system before we let him go at the end of the year.  

the geno hate is a combo of poor performances both on and off the field.  

[JustInFudge]

3 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I don't quite understand all the Geno hate to be honest.  

He came into the league with a system that wasn't a fit at all.  Going from an Air Raid offense to WCO offense is ridiculously hard because everything is different.  In an Air Raid, or most spread offenses, you are trying to find the weak spot in a defense that's spread thin and attack that weak spots.  It's all about reading the offense at the line, whereas the WCO is all about saying "My man can beat your guy to a certain spot and you can't do anything about it".  This works well when the running game was still a big priority, so defenses were forced to bring defenders into the box.  In essence, the WCO offense was taking advantage of favorable matchups because the defense was geared to stop the run more.  This slowly erodes as the value of running goes down, so they have to adjust, or have great player.  We had neither.  

How would anyone do good with this cast?  A lazy and done Santonio? Picked off the street David Nelson?  What has he done afterwards? Greg Salas looked good, and instantly got hurt.  Clyde Gates?  Stephen Hill? Jeff Cumberland? Remember when Salin Hakim was a possible savior? Jeremy Kerley?  Not to mention that our main feature back couldn't catch much out of the backfield.   Next year, we added Percy Harvin, who is basically out of the league now.  

Off all the players, Eric Decker was the only legitimate WR that Geno Smith had in his first two years. I'm not saying Geno is going to step in and take us to the promised land, but why does he get so much hate?  I would have loved to see what Geno could do with these weapons and system before we let him go at the end of the year.  

This is my favorite part of the equation that you just laid out there;

If it took Ryan Fitzpatrick 11 years to turn it around because he found the right system, with the right coaches and the right weapons; why cant a 10x more talented player turn it around under the same circumstances?

The answers are amazing to that question.  Amazing. 

[Villain The Foe]

Look at the guys coming around to attack the messenger and not the topic. 

 

The same 6 people talking about the same 6 people. 

 

lovely. 

[JohnnyLV]

8 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I don't quite understand all the Geno hate to be honest.  

He came into the league with a system that wasn't a fit at all.  Going from an Air Raid offense to WCO offense is ridiculously hard because everything is different.  In an Air Raid, or most spread offenses, you are trying to find the weak spot in a defense that's spread thin and attack that weak spots.  It's all about reading the offense at the line, whereas the WCO is all about saying "My man can beat your guy to a certain spot and you can't do anything about it".  This works well when the running game was still a big priority, so defenses were forced to bring defenders into the box.  In essence, the WCO offense was taking advantage of favorable matchups because the defense was geared to stop the run more.  This slowly erodes as the value of running goes down, so they have to adjust, or have great player.  We had neither.  

How would anyone do good with this cast?  A lazy and done Santonio? Picked off the street David Nelson?  What has he done afterwards? Greg Salas looked good, and instantly got hurt.  Clyde Gates?  Stephen Hill? Jeff Cumberland? Remember when Salin Hakim was a possible savior? Jeremy Kerley?  Not to mention that our main feature back couldn't catch much out of the backfield.   Next year, we added Percy Harvin, who is basically out of the league now.  

Off all the players, Eric Decker was the only legitimate WR that Geno Smith had in his first two years. I'm not saying Geno is going to step in and take us to the promised land, but why does he get so much hate?  I would have loved to see what Geno could do with these weapons and system before we let him go at the end of the year.  

I believe much of it is personality. He comes across as aloof, awkward and arrogant all at the same time. Couple that with bad play, and you have one of the most hated Jets ever.

Now Fitz on the other hand people like for some reason, and think because he went to harvard he is a smart QB (he is not). So today after one of the worst performances at QB EVER, tons of fans are doing everything they can to give Fitz a pass blaming coaching, scheme and whatever they can to excuse Fitz.

It's all emotional not any type of actual observation.

 

 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, johnnysd said:

I believe much of it is personality. He comes across as aloof, awkward and arrogant all at the same time. Couple that with bad play, and you have one of the most hated Jets ever.

Now Fitz on the other hand people like for some reason, and think because he went to harvard he is a smart QB (he is not). So today after one of the worst performances at QB EVER, tons of fans are doing everything they can to give Fitz a pass blaming coaching, scheme and whatever they can to excuse Fitz.

It's all emotional not any type of actual observation.

 

 

personality counts.  that's why fitz and sanchez will always have more chances than a guy like geno.  

[cant wait]

11 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

personality counts.  that's why fitz and sanchez will always have more chances than a guy like geno.  

And why tim tebow gets signed by the mets too

[SAR I]

20 minutes ago, JiF said:

This is my favorite part of the equation that you just laid out there;

If it took Ryan Fitzpatrick 11 years to turn it around because he found the right system, with the right coaches and the right weapons; why cant a 10x more talented player turn it around under the same circumstances?

The answers are amazing to that question.  Amazing. 

Ryan Fitzpatrick didn't turn anything around.  He had a hot streak at the end of last season and played big in fourth quarter comebacks against a cupcake schedule.

As evidenced by the Cincinnati and Kansas City contests, he's still the same guy he always was.

Just like Geno Smith.

Old dogs don't change their spots.  Geno didn't even get to "woof".

SAR I

[SAR I]

35 minutes ago, win4ever said:

I don't quite understand all the Geno hate to be honest.  

 

I don't know, alternating W's and L's for 11 weeks in his first year and going 2-11 in his second year might easily make you hate a selfish guy with no talent who replaced a stand-up guy who won 4 playoff games in a calendar year.

We all loved Mark Sanchez in September of 2011, we had finally found our franchise quarterback.  And then we were led to believe that no, he's a bum, he's no good, and the answer to improving the QB position was Geno Smith.  And then he sucked worse than Sanchez did.  And that's when we realized the AFC Finalist team was dead and buried and we'd be in the Geno Smith abyss for years.

And we were.  And it sucked.  And we aren't going back there again.  And Ryan Fitzpatrick was a glimmer of hope last year.  And Bryce Petty is a glimmer of hope for next year.  So stuck here in limbo between the old and new, we don't want no Geno to remind us of the past.

SAR I

[Augustiniak]

Just now, SAR I said:

I don't know, alternating W's and L's for 11 weeks in his first year and going 2-11 in his second year might easily make you hate a selfish guy with no talent who replaced a stand-up guy who won 4 playoff games in a calendar year.

We all loved Mark Sanchez in September of 2011, we had finally found our franchise quarterback.  And then we were led to believe that no, he's a bum, he's no good, and the answer to improving the QB position was Geno Smith.  And then he sucked worse than Sanchez did.  And that's when we realized the AFC Finalist team was dead and buried and we'd be in the Geno Smith abyss for years.

And we were.  And it sucked.  And we aren't going back there again.  And Ryan Fitzpatrick was a big reason why.

SAR I

And a year from now neither will be on this roster anyway.  And robbie anderson will be a part of the offense.

[win4ever]

20 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

the geno hate is a combo of poor performances both on and off the field.  

Why does his off-field demeanor factor into playing time?  I think I made the point in that thread a few weeks ago about some guy quitting football watching because he didn't want his kids to get addicted to the culture.  Why should anyone care about the guy's demeanor off the field?  He's not the most personable guy out there, but as far as I know, he hasn't broken any laws.  

16 minutes ago, JiF said:

This is my favorite part of the equation that you just laid out there;

If it took Ryan Fitzpatrick 11 years to turn it around because he found the right system, with the right coaches and the right weapons; why cant a 10x more talented player turn it around under the same circumstances?

The answers are amazing to that question.  Amazing. 

Fitzpatrick turned around his career in I believe year 5 or 6 to even be what he is right now.  Until then, Geno beats him out in terms of career numbers too I think.  

A spread system has numerous factors, but two very important ones are the deep pass, and the threat of run.  Clemson runs a spread system, but the reason why they could attack Alabama last year was because they throw extremely well down the field, and they had a good running game in place.  If you stretch a defense horizontally, they become weaker vertically, but teams don't have to face that fear with us at all.  

8 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I believe much of it is personality. He comes across as aloof, awkward and arrogant all at the same time. Couple that with bad play, and you have one of the most hated Jets ever.

Now Fitz on the other hand people like for some reason, and think because he went to harvard he is a smart QB (he is not). So today after one of the worst performances at QB EVER, tons of fans are doing everything they can to give Fitz a pass blaming coaching, scheme and whatever they can to excuse Fitz.

It's all emotional not any type of actual observation.

 

 

That's another misconception that I see around here, just because he went to Harvard, Fitz is smart.  He is anything but when it comes to football.  He might save me more money on my taxes than Geno, but that's not my concern.  I did the film reviews all last year, and it's astonishing how often Fitz just locks into a player from the get-go.  His other favorite move is the look away, then turn suddenly and throw move, even if the guy is covered.  

Geno does come off as aloof, but I'm just not sure anyone should care.  Mark Sanchez was personable, not like that gave me any joy.  Not like I sit there saying "Yeah, he just threw an INT, but I tell ya what, if I'm ever in a foxhole, he's be there with me!!".