The minutiae of the silly QB situation is distracting us from the longterm outlook of the Jets

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, 56mehl56 said:

Didn't say there isn't an imbalance , but its not a problem reserved strictly to the Jets. The salary cap causes teams to sacrifice certain positions over others. 

As far as a 3rd RB goes , they've barely used the 2nd RB, he'd probably be inactive or planted to the bench. And as far as the "drunk" goes , if he can catch a dozen footballs he's outproduced last season's crop of sober Te's. 

So if Forte and Powell both get injured against Seattle, who is the running back? 

For a team that runs the nickle as its base defense more often than not, they should have more than 4 corners on the game day roster. 

The Jets have been lucky thus far with injuries in games, but thats not likely to last. 

[56mehl56]

9 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

So if Forte and Powell both get injured against Seattle, who is the running back? 

For a team that runs the nickle as its base defense more often than not, they should have more than 4 corners on the game day roster. 

The Jets have been lucky thus far with injuries in games, but thats not likely to last. 

They'd probably go five wides or ask one of the young receivers to carry the ball a few times. But that's like saying what happens if Mangold and Wesley Johnson got hurt who is the center . What happens if Nick Folk and Lachlan Edwards got hurt who would kick . You can play the what if game with any team in the NFL. What if Jacoby Brisset had to leave Ne's game last week, what if Edleman also got hurt . 

[SAR I]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The minutiae of the silly QB situation is distracting us from the longterm outlook of the Jets

Yes.  And that's the reason for it.  It's a great emotional outlet and distraction from the bitter truth:

If Fitzpatrick's magic JAG days are over and if Petty isn't a decent prospect, we are 2+ years away from the playoffs which means a rebuild of our recent rebuild.  Guys like Mangold, Decker, Marshall, Forte, Harris, Revis, they're all going to be sold off or cut and we're headed back to the 2-14 abyss.

That's what life is like for the 25 teams without a franchise quarterback.

SAR I

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, JetPotato said:

QB Minutiae?

LOL. Someone hasn't watched a modern NFL game.

We have Rivers, Brady and so in we are 3-0.   

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Or maybe a 3rd running back that could actually be active. You know, because there are only two healthy ones on the roster that are active each week. 

They just cut a solid depth linebacker and special teamer for a drunk. If you don't think there is a roster balance issue, then I don't know what to tell you. 

We're also still carrying Kellen Davis, which is stupefying.

[RSJ]

5 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Which frankly, looks...bad.

As we squabble about a QB on a one  year contract having a historically bad game...we have guys on the defense making a lot of money- past this season who cant play anymore (Harris, Revis).

At what point does Maccagnan have to clear the ledger and suck up being bad for a few years? Does he get that shot or will the billboards go up again?

I am not disagreeing that they have played poorly. But is it the players or the coaches? Because everyone on the team seems inconsistent at this point. Every single player.

[Lupz27]

Mac inheriteda a 4-12 team barron of talent, and outside of his QB choice he has done a very good job in the 20 months on the job.

[RSJ]

13 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Mac inheriteda a 4-12 team barron of talent, and outside of his QB choice he has done a very good job in the 20 months on the job.

Mac isn't even close to the problem. The idiot DC who cant seem to hold onto playcalling duties along with our HC that spends all his time with a defense that still can't remember it's assignments is a much bigger problem. The other problem is our OC who still thinks he is coaching the 1995 Steelers. Finally the ST is still mostly a joke. Even Rex would have taken Marshall off the field after his first fumble for 6.

[Sperm Edwards]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Because he was locked in to an inescapable Brewster's Millions scenario where he had to burn cash. No GM could survive such a hell.

I love this analogy. 

[NYs Stepchild]

8 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

So if Forte and Powell both get injured against Seattle, who is the running back? 

For a team that runs the nickle as its base defense more often than not, they should have more than 4 corners on the game day roster. 

The Jets have been lucky thus far with injuries in games, but thats not likely to last. 

How would cutting a QB help this problem? 

[CrazyCarl40]

16 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

How would cutting a QB help this problem? 

Who said anything about cutting a QB? There are 4 tight ends on the roster and almost all of them are below replacement level players. Not sure where you got cutting a QB from anything I said. 

[bealeb319]

so we have two old guys who are making money passed this season and are not playing top notch football right now. we also have tons of young talent on the team itching for their chance to step up, we have other star players that were brought in at low cost (5th round draft pick for B Marsh (yes he is off to a slow start but what he did for us last season was well worth that 5th)). If you think Macc is a bad GM after the previous two GMs that we had you are plain dumb or ignorant. Macc was exactally the GM most people on this forum were looking for.

[jamesr]

11 hours ago, KRL said:

I know it will never happen but it would be so nice if after a loss people could
actually analyze the game without resorting to the tired nonsense of:

- Fire the HC
- Fire the OC
- Fire the DC
- Fire the GM
- Cut every player
- Post the billboard

It's boring, the Jets should be 3-0 if the QB (who many wanted back no matter what
the price) played "below average" against CIN & KC.  With all the other issues that
have cropped up in the first three games (Revis, secondary play, TE coverage) that's
the simple truth.  All the other crying & moaning is people just trying to push their
agenda

One play that stood out to me as a microcosm of our issues was in the 3rd quarter, a 3rd and 2, where Fitz locked in on a well covered Marshall pre-snap, and tried to get about 20 yards on a play that had next to no chance of succeeding.

Now I know we at home get a different view of the field, but pre-snap the CB on Enunwa dropped off a good 10 yards, and I was looking for a quick slant pass, 4 yards or so, 1st down - keep the drive alive. Enunwa came off the line, no-one near him, looked for the ball straight away with his hands up ready ... even a late pass would have got 1st down and a chance for decent YAC too. Instead we get a throw into tight coverage downfield, and a punt. The following drive by KC very nearly sealed the game, if not for a timely hit and an instant replay review.

What i can't do is explain the dynamics of the play. Had the coaching staff said that Marshall was the primary target and he'd be open; had Marshall been telling Fitz "put it up there, I've got this", did Fitz just put too much faith in his old buddy to make a play ... who knows. But if it was a bad decision by the players on a play that should easily have got us a first down, they need to call those players out as they are hurting the team. If it was a coach's call then they have to look at themselves and realise they have to take what is there, they don't have the consistency to play pitch and catch like they maybe thought they did after the Buffalo game.

(Now we have a thread with both minutiae and microcosm in it  ). 

[NYs Stepchild]

8 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Who said anything about cutting a QB? There are 4 tight ends on the roster and almost all of them are below replacement level players. Not sure where you got cutting a QB from anything I said. 

We only dressed two TEs the first two games. Bostic is a good special teamer. Bowman is a very good special teams player. We need him. He was in the last game as a replacement for Housewares. Most teams dress 3 TEs anyway. 

Davis is in to try and get in the way on almost every snap. I agree that a blocking TE that can't block is a waste but Chan seems to feel we need a TE in on every play. Either way these guys all made contributions. A fifth corner, or a 3rd RB would not have seen any snaps. AA would have been the 5th corner and also plays STs. 

You are conveniently switching between active roster, and 53 man roster in your argument however. We are not going to dress 4 TEs. The hope is that ASJ can replace Davis, and Bowman can replace Bostic, and Housewares. Then we can dress your 3rd RB. 

[CanadaSteve]

13 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Maccagnan's starting to look like a guy who was perfectly suited for his job in Houston, and absolutely nothing more than that.

Yeah, I mean, he sucks.  Lorenzo Mauldin, Leonard Williams, Darron Lee, Jordan Jenkins, Justin Burris.  All playing significant time for us.  Bringing in late round picks like Lac Edwards, Charone Peake and Deon Simon.  Horrible talent evaluator in getting Anderson and Marshall as UDFA's.  Brings in Carpenter, Forte, Clady as Free agents, all who are starting.  Revis is on the decline; age and a lack of desire do that.  Fitzpatrick is what he is.  When there is little in the cupboard, there is little that you can do.

Sometimes, there really is nothing more to do than just shake your head.

 

[CrazyCarl40]

25 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

We only dressed two TEs the first two games. Bostic is a good special teamer. Bowman is a very good special teams player. We need him. He was in the last game as a replacement for Housewares. Most teams dress 3 TEs anyway. 

Davis is in to try and get in the way on almost every snap. I agree that a blocking TE that can't block is a waste but Chan seems to feel we need a TE in on every play. Either way these guys all made contributions. A fifth corner, or a 3rd RB would not have seen any snaps. AA would have been the 5th corner and also plays STs. 

You are conveniently switching between active roster, and 53 man roster in your argument however. We are not going to dress 4 TEs. The hope is that ASJ can replace Davis, and Bowman can replace Bostic, and Housewares. Then we can dress your 3rd RB. 

Housewares. Lol. Good lord. 

[Joe Jets fan]

12 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

That is just for starters. 2/7 Red Zone trips compounds the problem. His last 4 games are indefensible for the most part. He is trending downward fast and Bowles did not bail him out at all.

and here is where everyone can see you just have an agenda.

 

Fitz SUCKED against KC!    He was great against Buffalo. 

Plenty of stuff you can say about the way Fitz played against Buffalo last year and KC this tear, you don't have to make stuff up.

[drsamuel84]

13 hours ago, varjet said:

I think everyone agrees that there has been quality added to the roster in the last 2 years, and it is better than 2014's.

Unfortunately, MacC is still recovering from the Idzik/Tanny/Bradway years, and I believe the 2015 splurge was partially done as a Woody directed move to fill seats.

I think we really won't know where this team stands until this time in....2018.

Exactly, I'm sure Macc had a directive to keep this team competitive while they rebuild.  That's why we overpaid a little for Revis, brought in Marshall etc... These were guys that could keep the team competitive for a few years while they completely rebuilt the young talent through the draft.  People have to remember where we were just 2 years ago to where we are now.  No doubt Macc needs to find a QB but I'm confident in his ability to find talent through the draft and FA.

[drsamuel84]

10 hours ago, bitonti said:

Ryan Fitzpatrick is the 24th highest paid QB in the league in 2016. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/quarterback/

He is below average no one disputes that fact. They are paying him that way as well. 

The real question is why do Jets fans expect above average or even amazing play from a clearly below average QB? 

And we should be praising Macc a little for holding his ground and not giving the guy a 3 year deal.  The way Fitz has played so far this year he might be regretting not taking the guaranteed money even if it was a lower yearly avg. amount.

[sourceworx]

12 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Richardson, Decker, Williams, Enunwa, Pryor, Winters, Ijalana, Folk, Miles, (Ivory, Colon, Douzable)

List his misses. I'll wait, because it's going to take you a while to type them all. 

[Jetster]

16 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

And we should be praising Macc a little for holding his ground and not giving the guy a 3 year deal.  The way Fitz has played so far this year he might be regretting not taking the guaranteed money even if it was a lower yearly avg. amount.

Fitz bet on himself & lost (not that 12 million is losing, lol). That sh*tshow Sunday was the straw that broke the camels back with this organization, I would have loved to be in the room with the Jets brass after the 4th pick & when he just started throwing the ball around indiscrimitely. The one thing I'm disappointed with is that I think the Jets should have grabbed Foles for 2 million.

There is no one here that can tell me Foles is any WORSE than Fitzy. Foles was pretty accurate throwing those short underneath passes that we use anyway. Foles, Hoyer, Fitz, there all the same, backup hold the fort guys with zero chance of winning a Super Bowl. This whole idea that some had that Fitz is a good mentor is complete BS. Yea, Petty & Hack learned a whole lot from him on Sunday, everything you shouldn't do, throw into double & triple coverage, throw while your being dragged down, run without sliding, stare down receivers, turn the ball over in the redzone. And this from a 12 year veteran! 

It just amazes me how unlucky the Jets are when it comes to QBs. I was hoping Petty would get a chance, I like his demeanor, he seems like a leader, he's got the gun to throw deep, and what happens? He hurts his shoulder in a stupid preseason game on an obvious late hit that doesn't even get called. Just a cursed franchise.

[JetPotato]

11 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The secondary is awful. If you can't defend the pass you better have an elite offense which we sure as sh*t don't have.

The Jets secondary is not "awful". Far from it. You have to adjust expectations knowing that is has become much, much easier to pass in this league. It's why Fitz is sometimes able to put up big numbers. It's why Ryan Tannehill is breaking Dan Marino records. It's just how it is.  

Relative to other secondaries in this league, however, the Jets are fine. There certainly are several that are much worse. 

I don't know what people expect every unit on this team to be a top 5 unit. It isn't going to happen. Every single team in the NFL has warts.

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

List his misses. I'll wait, because it's going to take you a while to type them all. 

Why don't you save us both the time and just tell us the Mendoza Line for a successful NFL GM?

[SAR I]

44 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

Exactly, I'm sure Macc had a directive to keep this team competitive while they rebuild.  That's why we overpaid a little for Revis, brought in Marshall etc... These were guys that could keep the team competitive for a few years while they completely rebuilt the young talent through the draft.  People have to remember where we were just 2 years ago to where we are now.  No doubt Macc needs to find a QB but I'm confident in his ability to find talent through the draft and FA.

Amen, brother.  Maccagnan has done a fantastic job.

SAR I

[Jetdawgg]

46 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

and here is where everyone can see you just have an agenda.

 

Fitz SUCKED against KC!    He was great against Buffalo. 

Plenty of stuff you can say about the way Fitz played against Buffalo last year and KC this tear, you don't have to make stuff up.

My agenda is to have the Jets win. Win and compete for a SB. No way is this happening now with this guy at QB. I could care less who is QB the Jets. I root for the team. 

[Matt39]

9 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

The Jets secondary is not "awful". Far from it. You have to adjust expectations knowing that is has become much, much easier to pass in this league. It's why Fitz is sometimes able to put up big numbers. It's why Ryan Tannehill is breaking Dan Marino records. It's just how it is.  

Relative to other secondaries in this league, however, the Jets are fine. There certainly are several that are much worse. 

I don't know what people expect every unit on this team to be a top 5 unit. It isn't going to happen. Every single team in the NFL has warts.

The Jets secondary has been god awful over the first 3 games.

[Jet Nut]

I can't believe that anyone who followed this team before Macc got here and follows the team today can complain about the job he's done.  He couldn't turn a 4 win team into JJ Cowboys or the Montana 49s in two offseasons so he's a lousy GM?  Unreal

[SAR I]

9 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Fitz bet on himself & lost (not that 12 million is losing, lol). That sh*tshow Sunday was the straw that broke the camels back with this organization,

Stop.

This is what a journeyman quarterback does.  Consistency is the reason why a quarterback is a journeyman and can't get a long-term deal from a team.  They are good one week, awful the next.  They look like Joe Montana once a month, look like Brady Quinn the rest of the time.  Up and down, good and bad, drive you crazy.

Point being, no one in the Jets organization has a "straw that breaks their back" moment with a journeyman quarterback, they fully understand what they have bought into because they have failed to find a legitimate franchise quarterback for 40 years, and our journeyman is better than the other 25 journeymen and/or prospects floating around the league.  We are lucky to have Fitzpatrick.

But don't worry.  This isn't going to play out far off from what you want.  Forgetting Fitzpatrick, this team isn't good enough to do any better than 7-9 after this type of start, by the time we are 1-6 or 2-5 and it's clear we have no prayer of a playoff berth we'll begin the process of vetting the 2017 squad and get Fitzpatrick, Revis, Harris, and a bunch of other oldsters some time on the pine while letting the youngsters prove themselves.

SAR I

[Ex-Rex]

14 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

The Jets just don't have bad QB play. The past 4 games QB play has been horrible. This season, there has been no real rushing game as we feature no TE and now no FB. To go along with a 30 year old RB who has been very effective. A running game can usually bail out a bad QB. Fitz though has been terrible.

I think a change in play calling would go a long way toward solving Fitz QB woes. Last season Fitz got rid of the ball quickly in short passing game. In KC he looked like Gailey was trying to make Peyton Manning out of him with downfield throw after downfield throw and ignoring the run game in the red zone. I blame Chan Gailey as much as Fitz for the disaster in KC and Gailey needs to rebound every bit as much as Fitz does. Get back to the short passing game and open the ground game in the red zone.

[sourceworx]

12 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Richardson, Decker, Williams, Enunwa, Pryor, Winters, Ijalana, Folk, Miles, (Ivory, Colon, Douzable)

**** it, I'll list them out.

Milliner, G Smith, Aboushi, W Campbell, Amaro, Saunders, Evans, Dozier, George, Dixon, Enempkpali, Boyd, Reilly (Michael Vick, Percy Harvin, David Nelson)

And the Pryor pick is a fail. We could have had Teddy Bridgewater. Good QB >>>>>>>>>>> Good Safety

We also had the chips to trade up for Derek Carr, another good QB. But Idzik was content with Geno Smith.

There's no defending that scarecrow-looking bucket of jizz. He set this franchise back for years. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yeah, I mean, he sucks.  Lorenzo Mauldin, Leonard Williams, Darron Lee, Jordan Jenkins, Justin Burris.  All playing significant time for us.  Bringing in late round picks like Lac Edwards, Charone Peake and Deon Simon.  Horrible talent evaluator in getting Anderson and Marshall as UDFA's.  Brings in Carpenter, Forte, Clady as Free agents, all who are starting.  Revis is on the decline; age and a lack of desire do that.  Fitzpatrick is what he is.  When there is little in the cupboard, there is little that you can do.

Sometimes, there really is nothing more to do than just shake your head.

 

Clady was not a free agent we traded a 5th round pick to get him. The reason he was available is Denver wanted to dump his salary, no one was really knocking on their door after several weeks, and it was pubic knowledge. The LT he really wanted chose the Jaguars instead. He didn't get Clady because MM specifically targeted him & then masterfully pried him loose from a team that really truly to keep him. He ended up with him.

Explain the wisdom of cancelling out a (now tradable) 4th round compensatory pick for Snacks so we could sign Jarvis Jenkins for millions.

[dbatesman]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Explain the wisdom of cancelling out a (now tradable) 4th round compensatory pick for Snacks so we could sign Jarvis Jenkins for millions.

Quick addendum to this: Jenkins has played less than 25% of the defensive snaps thus far.

[Charlie Brown]

19 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I can't believe that anyone who followed this team before Macc got here and follows the team today can complain about the job he's done.  He couldn't turn a 4 win team into JJ Cowboys or the Montana 49s in two offseasons so he's a lousy GM?  Unreal

Amazing isn't it!!!

Just unreal and many still can't see the differences in operation between Tanny, Idzik and Mac.  

[dbatesman]

14 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

**** it, I'll list them out.

Milliner, G Smith, Aboushi, W Campbell, Amaro, Saunders, Evans, Dozier, George, Dixon, Enempkpali, Boyd, Reilly (Michael Vick, Percy Harvin, David Nelson)

And the Pryor pick is a fail. We could have had Teddy Bridgewater. Good QB >>>>>>>>>>> Good Safety

We also had the chips to trade up for Derek Carr, another good QB. But Idzik was content with Geno Smith.

There's no defending that scarecrow-looking bucket of jizz. He set this franchise back for years. 

No argument on the QBs. His conduct there alone is deserving of being fired. But acting like Maccagnan walked into a barren wasteland of a roster is revisionist history.

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Quick addendum to this: Jenkins has played less than 25% of the defensive snaps thus far.

Great. We don't need another 4th round pick next year anyway because we already have our orig----. Oh wait, no we don't.