AFJF Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I'd be willing to be that stat changes this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 2 hours ago, AFJF said: Then that's an even bigger indictment on Fitz poor play. I think back to MNF, Fitz rears back throws to a wide open Jalen Marshall and the ball sails 2' over his outstretched arms, lol. Marshall shakes head accordingly. I will make this bet with anyone on this board regarding Genos career. I will bet anyone here that going forward, no matter who Geno plays for he will NOT go 0-25 vs teams that end the year over 500 like Fitz has in his career. Any takers? And I'm not a Geno fan, I just don't think his entire career has been carved in stone yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 3 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said: I'd be willing to be that stat changes this week. I'd be willing to bet you've blamed this same OL for part of Fitz' failure sometime this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Pass protection hasn't been the bigger issue with the Jets O-Line this year. It's been the complete inability to open holes in the running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, j4jets said: I'd be willing to bet you've blamed this same OL for part of Fitz' failure sometime this year. Yes. And so has Bowles and the linemen themselves. Not giving up sacks doesn't mean they're not giving up pressures and QB hits. Fitz does a better job than Geno at feeling the pressure and escaping the pocket. Geno has no feel for that and that's why he gets sacked at a much higher rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 And yet their head coach threw them under the bus Monday night. Weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 been saying this for years but believe it or not the Jets OL is above average. I currently have them graded out at 13th. Mangold is a huge part of the grade, as is Carpenter and Clady. Jets fans remember the 4 First round line of Faneca/Woody etc from 2009 and anything that is less than that everyone talks about drafting an offensive lineman in rd 1. the Jets' OL certainly can be improved (and they might make a high pick if Clady gets hurt again) but overall it's good enough to win. Other teams have way worse. Look at the Pats OL every week it's garbage and the Seahawks is even worse but the QB Is everything in this league. *** by the way this week the Ravens are missing Marshal Yanda perhaps the best RG in football. That's a big loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRy56 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The Jets offensive line is fine. We are definitely above average. A little long in the tooth? Yes, but nothing to complain about performance wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The failed Qb and the oc are a good deal responsible for that stat. As Carl said expect that to change real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 42 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Yes. And so has Bowles and the linemen themselves. Not giving up sacks doesn't mean they're not giving up pressures and QB hits. Fitz does a better job than Geno at feeling the pressure and escaping the pocket. Geno has no feel for that and that's why he gets sacked at a much higher rate. Maybe so...but then he just throws a pick anyways so it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said: Pass protection hasn't been the bigger issue with the Jets O-Line this year. It's been the complete inability to open holes in the running game. That's not on the OL. Not entirely. When you have Ds crowding the box, its hard for the 5-6 OL-TE to block 7 and 8 defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 pass pro is ok, run blocking not so much, and the RT remains an issue, and with no TE or FB, blocking overall is weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 45 minutes ago, j4jets said: Maybe so...but then he just throws a pick anyways so it doesn't matter. Right. And Geno is more turnover prone over his career than Fitz was over his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I subscribe to PFF. Mangold, Carpenter and Winters all grade out well, but Clady and Ijalana have graded out poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, maury77 said: I subscribe to PFF. Mangold, Carpenter and Winters all grade out well, but Clady and Ijalana have graded out poorly. Not surprising. Winters is a totally different player from the guy who was benched for someone else they cut. Our two tackles...well Ijalana's excuse is he's inexperienced and cheap. I can live with that, in particular because such a player is easy to replace. Clady is a different issue. The position is just a harder one to fill, but no way he's worth the $13M he's due next year under his current contract, and he's too dangerous to extend. I don't know what kind of offer I'd even make. Why is it that we have to trade our 5th rounder (which ended up costing us next year's 4th rounder, indirectly) for Clady, and Denver picks up Okung for nothing (he was a UFA but we'd already picked up more than we'd lost so that it didn't matter) and he's less expensive, younger, and cheaper if he's kept. He never lived up to his draft slot, but Clady isn't the player he once was anyway. It's also possible he will get better in 2017, another full year separated from his last knee surgery. Don't know that I'd spend $10-13M to find out, though. Better off not exercising his option, and recouping the draft pick (comp pick in 2018) when someone else signs him away. Hey, look on the bright side. At least Giacomini isn't a bottom 5 tackle again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said: Why is it that we have to trade our 5th rounder (which ended up costing us next year's 4th rounder, indirectly) for Clady, and Denver picks up Okung for nothing (he was a UFA but we'd already picked up more than we'd lost so that it didn't matter) and he's less expensive, younger, and cheaper if he's kept. He never lived up to his draft slot, but Clady isn't the player he once was anyway. Okung has never made it through an entire 16 game season. Okung has never made a Pro Bowl and he probably never will. Clady is paid more than Okung because he's worth more than Okung. It's refreshing to have this discussion without the "Dbrick is kiling this team with his contract" bullsh*t. Actual left tackles cost money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Just now, bitonti said: Okung has never made it through an entire 16 game season. Okung has never made a Pro Bowl and he probably never will. Clady is paid more than Okung because he's worth more than Okung. It's refreshing to have this discussion without the "Dbrick is kiling this team with his contract" bullsh*t. Actual left tackles cost money. Uh, D'Brick was killing the team with his contract because he wasn't playing up to it anymore. He was just a name at the end, and even he knew it. And you wanted him extended for even longer? Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 30 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: Right. And Geno is more turnover prone over his career than Fitz was over his. Right. And Geno still outplayed him. So maybe you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 The tackles must really suck then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 2 hours ago, j4jets said: I'd be willing to bet you've blamed this same OL for part of Fitz' failure sometime this year. You do realize we use tackles also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, j4jets said: Right. And Geno still outplayed him. So maybe you're wrong. What? Geno outplayed him when? Geno has his 4th chance now. He is a severely limited QB and that's what I expect to play out. He may not play and poorly as Fitz has this season, but it's still going to be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 People around here heavily underrate our o-line. While it's not great - it's nowhere near the biggest problems on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 6 hours ago, AFJF said: First of all Fitz is pretty good at not taking the sacks, but our tackles have been rough. I think one of the comentators said it during the game Monday, the reason the Jets Run D is so good is because everyone passes on them, so why run. our Tackles have not held up well (unless you mean by holding) and so why run stunts up the center? Also, as good as they are at pass blocking, they have been bad at run blocking. Of course, part of the problem is that teams stack the box on us, and dare us to throw over them. So, it makes it hard to run anyway. That is why I don't particularly like this stats or grades. Football is a team sport. If one area of the team isn't performing it is usually not just the fault of the person at that position. And, if the QB is struggling, the whole offense is going to struggle with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury77 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 In Clady's defense, he is coming off a season that he missed. I'd like to give him an entire season before passing a verdict on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 14 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said: I'd be willing to be that stat changes this week. I sure hope so because they have to take some chances. At some point they will have to think about scoring touchdowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 49 minutes ago, Maxman said: I sure hope so because they have to take some chances. At some point they will have to think about scoring touchdowns. Radical! - You mean we are actually allowed to score TD's? Even in the 3rd quarter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 4 hours ago, Maxman said: I sure hope so because they have to take some chances. At some point they will have to think about scoring touchdowns. You hope they give up sacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 43 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: You hope they give up sacks? Looking at more than one downfield target takes longer. Sacks are inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said: Looking at more than one downfield target takes longer. Sacks are inevitable. You've seen enough of Geno to know he locks on targets just as much as Fitz. You also know he holds onto the ball and has no pocket awareness at all. That's why he gets sacked. Not because he's scanning his options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 12 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said: You've seen enough of Geno to know he locks on targets just as much as Fitz. You also know he holds onto the ball and has no pocket awareness at all. That's why he gets sacked. Not because he's scanning his options. You are very wrong, to the point I wonder if you bother watching. His problem is the opposite. He looks around for too long and as a result of that - plus taking too long to do it - he takes too many sacks. He keeps looking downfield even when he should just throw it away or tuck and run. This reminds me of so many posts that suggested Fitzpatrick used to run through his progressions because he's smarter. It's just made up. Smith has serious flaws as a QB on and off the field. At this point I'd rather see someone else purely because they aren't bringing him back and it's just wasting starts. We'll see how many of his on field flaws he's corrected. His OC seems to be his biggest advocate. I'm sure he's learned and improved some, but I don't know that it's enough to overcome his other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said: You are very wrong, to the point I wonder if you bother watching. His problem is the opposite. He looks around for too long and as a result of that - plus taking too long to do it - he takes too many sacks. He keeps looking downfield even when he should just throw it away or tuck and run. I'm not wrong, but I don't typically watch Geno because he's awful. You literally just parroted me. I said he holds on to the ball too long and you say he holds on to the ball too long. As far as locking onto receivers, he does that just as much. He threw to Marshall over 40% of the time against the Raiders in the game last season. There is likely to be no significant difference tomorrow except more sacks and more fumbles for the Ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said: I'm not wrong, but I don't typically watch Geno because he's awful. You literally just parroted me. I said he holds on to the ball too long and you say he holds on to the ball too long. As far as locking onto receivers, he does that just as much. He threw to Marshall over 40% of the time against the Raiders in the game last season. There is likely to be no significant difference tomorrow except more sacks and more fumbles for the Ravens. So you say you don't watch him, but you know what he is doing by not watching him. Against the Raiders in that situation I would even give Fitzpatrick a mulligan and so would you. The guy was running the freaking scout team all week and hadn't seen live action since he prior season. As in, all week long he and his receivers were running/practicing anticipated Oakland plays, not practicing Jets plays. That doesn't mean he's secretly a star QB but for a week of practice. It does mean you're looking into an unprepared relief appearance too much. Then and now, you gave Smith a harder time for that relief appearance than you gave Fitzpatrick for his 6-interception game. I don't expect great things, and think this is a waste of relief starts. They should have already moved on from both of these guys by now. Want to give Geno a look, fine. Do it weeks ago while any improvement would have been of some tangible use. To hold off on starting/using Geno until Petty is back, and itching to get in himself, is just foolishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 On 10/21/2016 at 5:28 PM, Sperm Edwards said: Uh, D'Brick was killing the team with his contract because he wasn't playing up to it anymore. He was just a name at the end, and even he knew it. And you wanted him extended for even longer? Lol. It's not really about the money it's about what the money can do in terms of changing the outcome of games. for example most of Brick's money now goes to Clady, who they had to trade a 4th round pick for. He's doing about as good a job as Brick. Not perfect in pass but better than most LTs. But let's say Clady is MUCH BETTER, just for the sake of argument. SO what? Last year's team won 10 games, this year's team will be lucky to break .500 and are currently 2-5. Was Brick's contract really killing the team? Cap space is useless if there's no one good to use it on in free agency. Where are they getting this awesome talent? It has to be a Quarterback. But Andrew Luck isn't just sitting around waiting to be paid. In theory, they could have used Fitz 12 Mil and Brick-Clady's 5 Mil and paid Osweiler 17 mil. But where does that get you? The point I've been trying to make in these discussions isn't about Bricks' value it's about going to the grocery store with a sack of money and finding no groceries on the shelf. Free agency is a shell game. Even if Brick was just a name at the end, names are better than no-names. HE was a leader in the locker room by the way and a homegrown New Yorker. Half the league would rather take a bath in acid than play in NY (trade for Phillip Rivers type threads). The real question is why have you hated Brick for years? did he cross you in some personal way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 to keep this topic somewhat relevant... Brandon Shell got some good action this weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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